2000 refuse council housing

Gatling · 03-11-2015 7:45pm #1

Nothing new here except the figure of nearly 2000 people /families turned down local authority housing last /this year ,
In the supposed housing crisis we have people refusing multiple local authority houses ,

Excuses range from size ,lack of privacy, on a long holiday in Rome .

As someone currently 8 years on the sdcc list I'm seriously discusted reading the following

http://www.irishexaminer.com/ireland/2000-offers-of-social-housing-turned-down-362579.html

JustTheOne · 03-11-2015 7:53pm

I bet this won't end up on the journal.

Disgraceful and people wonder why they end up homeless.

Such a sense of entitlement.

Gatling · 03-11-2015 7:56pm

JustTheOne wrote: »

I bet this won't end up on the journal.

Disgraceful and people wonder why they end up homeless.

Such a sense of entitlement.

Thought it was bad when I heard people were turning down houses because gardens weren't big enough for dogs or 13 ft trampolines

Eric Cartman · 03-11-2015 7:56pm

you should automatically drop to the bottom of the queue if you turn down an offer. People need to be housed and you have these types swanning around until they get a house in a leafy suburb thats new and has great transport and all the other features that even somebody on a decent salary can no longer afford.

its a disgrace.

sozbox · 03-11-2015 8:01pm

Unbelievable. Absolutely incredible. Makes me wonder why I bother scrimping for a deposit at all. I can barely afford to live in a city never mind somewhere with no barking dogs!

Toots · 03-11-2015 8:02pm

I dunno, from reading that article a lot of them seemed to have valid enough reasons, ie lack of access to schools, too far for medical care, unable to access their job from there, etc. There's no point taking a house if you end up with your health suffering because of it. I do agree that some reasons seem to be stupid, but the impression I got from that article is that it's a minority of people giving those excuses.

I've got 2 family members who are on the housing list and each have turned down one property. One is a family with 3 kids, currently renting a house, they got offered a 2 bedroom apartment. The second bedroom in the apartment would not have fitted 3 beds, and giving the kids the master bedroom and them taking the second bedroom wasn't an option either, because you couldn't have fitted a double bed in it.

Other person got offered a house which looked great, only for the fact that there's a known drug dealer living 2 doors down. They're in Dun Laoghaire Rathdown, and have been on the list for years. Neither of them are holding out any hope of getting a house/apartment in the next 10 years.

JustTheOne · 03-11-2015 8:03pm

sozbox wrote: »

Unbelievable. Absolutely incredible. Makes me wonder why I bother scrimping for a deposit at all. I can barely afford to live in a city never mind somewhere with no barking dogs!

And this is the propaganda we hear used with great effect against the government.

People don't know the facts and politicians are afraid to actually tell it like it is for fear of the usual do gooders.

foggy_lad · 03-11-2015 8:05pm

Many of these offers are for houses in Known areas of serious anti social behaviour and criminality, placing normal honest people in situations like that is not just wrong it can lead to more issues for the Gardai and the council in the long run!

JustTheOne · 03-11-2015 8:05pm

Toots wrote: »

I dunno, from reading that article a lot of them seemed to have valid enough reasons, ie lack of access to schools, too far for medical care, unable to access their job from there, etc. There's no point taking a house if you end up with your health suffering because of it. I do agree that some reasons seem to be stupid, but the impression I got from that article is that it's a minority of people giving those excuses.

I've got 2 family members who are on the housing list and each have turned down one property. One is a family with 3 kids, currently renting a house, they got offered a 2 bedroom apartment. The second bedroom in the apartment would not have fitted 3 beds, and giving the kids the master bedroom and them taking the second bedroom wasn't an option either, because you couldn't have fitted a double bed in it.

Other person got offered a house which looked great, only for the fact that there's a known drug dealer living 2 doors down. They're in Dun Laoghaire Rathdown, and have been on the list for years. Neither of them are holding out any hope of getting a house/apartment in the next 10 years.

You really shouldn't be fussy when been offered a house virtually rent free.

Beggars cant be choosers.

Gatling · 03-11-2015 8:07pm

In this day and age sorry it should be one offer and no more ,
It's reduculous people are putting the names down for multiple locations knowing where and what their applying for ,
So there shouldn't be any surprises when their offered a property by a local authority.
Take them off the list and block them from getting rent supplement .

JustTheOne · 03-11-2015 8:08pm

foggy_lad wrote: »

Many of these offers are for houses in Known areas of serious anti social behaviour and criminality, placing normal honest people in situations like that is not just wrong it can lead to more issues for the Gardai and the council in the long run!

How do you know this?

Eric Cartman · 03-11-2015 8:08pm

Toots wrote: »

I dunno, from reading that article a lot of them seemed to have valid enough reasons, ie lack of access to schools, too far for medical care, unable to access their job from there, etc. There's no point taking a house if you end up with your health suffering because of it. I do agree that some reasons seem to be stupid, but the impression I got from that article is that it's a minority of people giving those excuses.

I've got 2 family members who are on the housing list and each have turned down one property. One is a family with 3 kids, currently renting a house, they got offered a 2 bedroom apartment. The second bedroom in the apartment would not have fitted 3 beds, and giving the kids the master bedroom and them taking the second bedroom wasn't an option either, because you couldn't have fitted a double bed in it.

Other person got offered a house which looked great, only for the fact that there's a known drug dealer living 2 doors down. They're in Dun Laoghaire Rathdown, and have been on the list for years. Neither of them are holding out any hope of getting a house/apartment in the next 10 years.

the first one ill give you. Thats a valid reason.

the second is not. Im sorry but you're always going to have a local lowlife or some antisocial behaviour where social housing is located (before anyone jumps on me , I'm not saying everyone in social housing is a lowlife, but for whatever reason the vast majority of lowlifes are in social housing). Turning down an effectively free house because theres somebody dodgy down the road is not a valid reason.

foggy_lad · 03-11-2015 8:10pm

Gatling wrote: »

In this day and age sorry it should be one offer and no more ,
It's reduculous people are putting the names down for multiple locations knowing where and what their applying for ,
So there shouldn't be any surprises when their offered a property by a local authority.
Take them off the list and block them from getting rent supplement .

You are told to put a general area onto the list so lets say you put somewhere in Limerick city and get put into the nastiest kip in the city, you have more of a duty to your wife and kids to protect them from such a place than you have to make things easier for lazy councils and politicians.

Eric Cartman · 03-11-2015 8:10pm

foggy_lad wrote: »

Many of these offers are for houses in Known areas of serious anti social behaviour and criminality, placing normal honest people in situations like that is not just wrong it can lead to more issues for the Gardai and the council in the long run!

but you can't give into that. If you let a few decent people away with turning down accommodation in these estates, then the only solution is to move in other criminals or let the house get burned out / destroyed which just puts other people in that estate back on the list. If you have one lowlife in an estate you're best off surrounding them with decent people who will band together and report all the criminal activities and have them removed, rather than just put all the bad eggs together and create a nightmare in bricks.

Toots · 03-11-2015 8:12pm

JustTheOne wrote: »

You really shouldn't be fussy when been offered a house virtually rent free.

Beggars cant be choosers.

I agree with that to an extent, but putting a family with young kids (or anyone for that matter) in a house beside a drug dealer is madness. If it had been me there's no way I'd have lived there, no matter how dire my situation was. No amount of reduction in rent would make it worth living in fear in your own home.

Gatling · 03-11-2015 8:12pm

foggy_lad wrote: »

You are told to put a general area onto the list so lets say you put somewhere in Limerick city and get put into the nastiest kip in the city, you have more of a duty to your wife and kids to protect them from such a place than you have to make things easier for lazy councils and politicians.

You get several options when applying.
Every estate has its problems regardless where it is in this country

foggy_lad · 03-11-2015 8:13pm

Eric Cartman wrote: »

but you can't give into that. If you let a few decent people away with turning down accommodation in these estates, then the only solution is to move in other criminals or let the house get burned out / destroyed which just puts other people in that estate back on the list. If you have one lowlife in an estate you're best off surrounding them with decent people who will band together and report all the criminal activities and have them removed, rather than just put all the bad eggs together and create a nightmare in bricks.

The answer is to evict the lowlifes and their families and stop paying their rent altogether! Then a lot more houses and flats and apartments would be free for decent honest people.

foggy_lad · 03-11-2015 8:15pm

Gatling wrote: »

You get several options when applying.
Every estate has its problems regardless where it is in this country

Indeed but an offer of a place near one you have chosen is still a valid offer even if it is a complete kip full of scumbags dealers and lowlifes.

Gatling · 03-11-2015 8:16pm

foggy_lad wrote: »

Indeed but an offer of a place near one you have chosen is still a valid offer even if it is a complete kip full of scumbags dealers and lowlifes.

There in every estate in the country .

JustTheOne · 03-11-2015 8:16pm

Toots wrote: »

I agree with that to an extent, but putting a family with young kids (or anyone for that matter) in a house beside a drug dealer is madness. If it had been me there's no way I'd have lived there, no matter how dire my situation was. No amount of reduction in rent would make it worth living in fear in your own home.

There is drug dealers in every neighbourhood in the country. Amongst criminals for various offences that most people wouldn't even know.

Just seems like an excuse to hold out for that dream home on a plate.

Toots · 03-11-2015 8:17pm

Eric Cartman wrote: »

the first one ill give you. Thats a valid reason.

the second is not. Im sorry but you're always going to have a local lowlife or some antisocial behaviour where social housing is located (before anyone jumps on me , I'm not saying everyone in social housing is a lowlife, but for whatever reason the vast majority of lowlifes are in social housing). Turning down an effectively free house because theres somebody dodgy down the road is not a valid reason.

Two doors down, and believe me this is more than the local lowlife. This guy's front door has been a bin bag for the last 6 months, because the place keeps getting raided. It turns out the previous tennant moved out when her car got set on fire in her driveway one night- the reason? She'd found a "suspicious" package in the hedge in her back garden and called the Gardai. They believe the 'package' belonged to the guy down the road, and he obviously wasn't too happy about losing a pile of his product.

LeeLooLee · 03-11-2015 8:25pm

Toots wrote: »

I dunno, from reading that article a lot of them seemed to have valid enough reasons, ie lack of access to schools, too far for medical care, unable to access their job from there, etc. There's no point taking a house if you end up with your health suffering because of it. I do agree that some reasons seem to be stupid, but the impression I got from that article is that it's a minority of people giving those excuses.

And what about all the working people who have to put up with those things? My first job after college, I was commuting 2 hours each way to get there, with a combination of bus, Luas, DART and walking. It was a pain in the hole but I was happy to have a job.

I've got 2 family members who are on the housing list and each have turned down one property. One is a family with 3 kids, currently renting a house, they got offered a 2 bedroom apartment. The second bedroom in the apartment would not have fitted 3 beds, and giving the kids the master bedroom and them taking the second bedroom wasn't an option either, because you couldn't have fitted a double bed in it.

Other person got offered a house which looked great, only for the fact that there's a known drug dealer living 2 doors down. They're in Dun Laoghaire Rathdown, and have been on the list for years. Neither of them are holding out any hope of getting a house/apartment in the next 10 years.

They can't be that desperate, then. There are plenty of families living in 2 bed apartments here in Spain. A bedroom wouldn't fit 3 beds? Not even bunk beds? The parents couldn't have made do with a small double?

Wanderer78 · 03-11-2015 8:27pm

i wouldnt recommend anybody to move into the boarded up houses in my area, not if you give a damn about you and your families well being, and particularly if you dont want to increase the chances of your kids being surrounded by drug use and serious antisocial behaviour etc.

JustTheOne · 03-11-2015 8:30pm

Wanderer78 wrote: »

i wouldnt recommend anybody to move into the boarded up houses in my area, not if you give a damn about you and your families well being, and particularly if you dont want to increase the chances of your kids being surrounded by drug use and serious antisocial behaviour etc.

Well then save up and buy a house in an area you like, like most people if it bothers you that much.

Don't expect the government to give you a house in an area of your choosing with all amenities and mod cons.

Desperate times desperate measures.

Gatling · 03-11-2015 8:34pm

In this day and age when people like me are worried if we're going to be homeless everytime we get a call from our landlord or a letter from social welfare saying your rent supplement is been cut or other .

I'd glady live beside the local scum bag because I'd that than walk the streets with my kids

Wanderer78 · 03-11-2015 8:35pm

JustTheOne wrote: »

Well then save up and buy a house in an area you like, like most people if it bothers you that much.

Don't expect the government to give you a house in an area of your choosing with all amenities and mod cons.

Desperate times desperate measures.

say wha?

im here to stay. been here all my life. aint moving anywhere but i really wouldnt recommend any family to take a boarded up house here. you can be guaranteed serious mental health problems for you and your family if you do so. is this what we want for our society????

sozbox · 03-11-2015 8:36pm

My local council has been instructed by the Govt to 'acquire' over a thousand houses for social use. Many of these will be acquired through purchase, others by leasing. This means I am now competing against the local council when buying a house, I can't win! What impact will this have on prices of nearby houses?

listermint · 03-11-2015 8:37pm

Gatling wrote: »

Excuse me .

In this day and age when people like me a worried if we're going to be homeless everytime we get a call from our landlord or a letter from social welfare saying your rent supplement is been cut or other .

I'd glady live beside the local scum bag because I'd that than walk the streets with my kids

That last paragraph is utter tripe, and you know it.

You'd have a totally different opinion given the same choice from rented accommodation with your family.

Fact.

Markcheese · 03-11-2015 8:38pm

Look the housing list has always been a bit of a joke-
But i'm assuming those houses didnt go unlived in ... most people in ireland have a home- but because of our disfunctional private rental market have little security of tenure . They're not borderline homeless so they'll cherrypick.... I would too-
Maybe we should change the criteria on our housing lists..

Gatling · 03-11-2015 8:40pm

listermint wrote: »

That last paragraph is utter tripe, and you know it.

You'd have a totally different opinion given the same choice from rented accommodation with your family.

Fact.

No its not .

I'll glady live in any part of this country no matter who or what my neighbours are ,
And I've said it multiple times over the years on here .

Eric Cartman · 03-11-2015 8:41pm

Toots wrote: »

Two doors down, and believe me this is more than the local lowlife. This guy's front door has been a bin bag for the last 6 months, because the place keeps getting raided. It turns out the previous tennant moved out when her car got set on fire in her driveway one night- the reason? She'd found a "suspicious" package in the hedge in her back garden and called the Gardai. They believe the 'package' belonged to the guy down the road, and he obviously wasn't too happy about losing a pile of his product.

Its still better than being on the streets. Id agree we shouldnt even be housing those type of lowlifes but until we change that , nobody should be in a position to turn down a 'free' house

Toots · 03-11-2015 9:07pm

LeeLooLee wrote: »

They can't be that desperate, then. There are plenty of families living in 2 bed apartments here in Spain. A bedroom wouldn't fit 3 beds? Not even bunk beds? The parents couldn't have made do with a small double?

The second bedroom was tiny. It fitted a single bed with and there wasn't even enough room for a little nightstand beside it, a small double bed wouldn't have fitted, they measured it up. There are plenty of families living in 2 bedroom apts here in Ireland also. I'm living in a 1 bed apartment - myself, hubby and our 4 year old share a bedroom. I'd give my eye teeth for a 2 bed. I saw the apartment that my SIL was offered - it'd be more of a 1 bed + walk in wardrobe TBH.

Gatling · 03-11-2015 9:14pm

Toots wrote: »

The second bedroom was tiny. It fitted a single bed with and there wasn't even enough room for a little nightstand beside it, a small double bed wouldn't have fitted, they measured it up. There are plenty of families living in 2 bedroom apts here in Ireland also. I'm living in a 1 bed apartment - myself, hubby and our 4 year old share a bedroom. I'd give my eye teeth for a 2 bed. I saw the apartment that my SIL was offered - it'd be more of a 1 bed + walk in wardrobe TBH.

How did they see and measure it ,you don't normally get to see or have access till you sign for the property .

Spanish Eyes · 03-11-2015 9:16pm

Those on the housing list are presumably on RAS or in private accommodation with Rent Supplement.

Why on earth would they move from a place THEY selected and is being paid for mostly by the taxpayer to move somewhere that doesn't suit them.

No wonder there is so much resentment of these people really. It is just mind boggling.

There seems to me to be absolutely NO point in building social housing at all. Because no one will move into them. Well some will, but many will refuse because of A B and C. and the merry go round goes round and round.

It is not right, and it's not funny anymore.

I noticed Fr. McVerry said the suspension of a housing list applicant after two refusals amounts to ""unreasonable coercion" by the Council. Now What The absolute F?

Well the next time he comes on media moaning about homelessness I will be a bit more cynical to be honest.

Wanderer78 · 03-11-2015 9:18pm

i really wish people could spend some time in disadvantaged areas. you d learn a lot about life in them!

Slydice · 03-11-2015 9:20pm

What a mixed up article he wrote. He seems to be having trouble with his own numbers:
"2,000 offers of social housing turned down"
"More than 2,000 offers"
"1,990 refusals of an offer of social housing"

I don't think he's keeping his eye on the ball there with looking at refusals. The other number in his own article is SO HUGE:
"130,000 are on social housing waiting lists"

Let's stick in the number of Public and Private accomodation FROM 2013 AND 2014 onto a bar chart:

Sources:
His own article: http://www.irishexaminer.com/ireland/2000-offers-of-social-housing-turned-down-362579.html
Dept of Environment Latest House Building and Private Rented Statistics: http://www.environ.ie/en/Publications/StatisticsandRegularPublications/HousingStatistics/FileDownLoad,15293,en.xls

LeeLooLee · 03-11-2015 9:26pm

Wanderer78 wrote: »

i really wish people could spend some time in disadvantaged areas. you d learn a lot about life in them!

I grew up in one and wouldn't want the same for my kids.

Wanderer78 · 03-11-2015 9:28pm

LeeLooLee wrote: »

I grew up in one and wouldn't want the same for my kids.

can completely identify with that and you ve obviously learned a lot from the experience. best of luck to you and your kids

quadrifoglio verde · 03-11-2015 9:29pm

LeeLooLee wrote: »

I grew up in one and wouldn't want the same for my kids.

But given the choice of a secure roof over their heads, or living in a hotel room long term, which would you chose

ShaShaBear · 03-11-2015 9:31pm

To be honest, we'd take whatever we were given. It's much easier to transfer from council house to council house than it is to get into one in the first place! We only put areas on our application that we knew would be suitable. It would be very ridiculous to tick the box for "X" and then refuse a house in "X" because it's not close to a school. It's no further away from schools than it was when you applied!

listermint · 03-11-2015 9:37pm

Gatling wrote: »

No its not .

I'll glady live in any part of this country no matter who or what my neighbours are ,
And I've said it multiple times over the years on here .

It's easy to say things when you know you won't have to do it.

I'd glady pilot a space rocket with little fuel to the moon.

Gatling · 03-11-2015 9:39pm

listermint wrote: »

It's easy to say things when you know you won't have to do it.

And who are you to say otherwise

Paulw · 03-11-2015 9:48pm

Mod Warning: Enough of the tit for tat guys. If you want to have a one on one debate, then do it over PM.

Keep it civil.

LeeLooLee · 03-11-2015 9:53pm

quadrifoglio verde wrote: »

But given the choice of a secure roof over their heads, or living in a hotel room long term, which would you chose

Oh yeah, I'd go for the house, but would make damn sure they appreciated and respected it. The estate I lived on as a kid was a kip mostly because nobody respected it and took it for granted that they were given a decent, warm home for hardy any rent.

Villa05 · 03-11-2015 10:02pm

Eric Cartman wrote: »

but you can't give into that. If you let a few decent people away with turning down accommodation in these estates, then the only solution is to move in other criminals or let the house get burned out / destroyed which just puts other people in that estate back on the list. If you have one lowlife in an estate you're best off surrounding them with decent people who will band together and report all the criminal activities and have them removed, rather than just put all the bad eggs together and create a nightmare in bricks.

Do you live in the same country as the rest of us. Im sorry but our legal system is as broken as our property market. White collar and blue collar criminals get away with murder in this country.

You see many homeless choosing cold and wet over sleeping in the same building as addicts,

The criminal gangs in Ireland are well known, yet untouchable.

The vast majority of systems with heavy state involement are broken

Toots · 03-11-2015 10:15pm

Gatling wrote: »

How did they see and measure it ,you don't normally get to see or have access till you sign for the property .

I wasn't aware of that, but they got to go up and see it beforehand. My SIL works with a girl who bought an apartment in another block in the same complex and warned her that some of the apartments that were being listed on daft to rent as 2 beds, had been sold as 1 bed plus office/study space, and that the second space wasn't big enough for a bedroom, so SIL requested an inspection. I don't know if she had hassle arranging it or what, but they were able to see it.

ShaShaBear · 03-11-2015 10:17pm

Toots wrote: »

I wasn't aware of that, but they got to go up and see it beforehand. My SIL works with a girl who bought an apartment in another block in the same complex and warned her that some of the apartments that were being listed on daft to rent as 2 beds, had been sold as 1 bed plus office/study space, and that the second space wasn't big enough for a bedroom, so SIL requested an inspection. I don't know if she had hassle arranging it or what, but they were able to see it.

I would have imagined you would be allowed to inspect. I mean, it's possibly where you will be living for the rest of your life depending on your financial circumstances - surely you should be allowed to make sure it is suitable to live in? As you've just said, the council offering an apartment with two rooms to house 5 people is ridiculous enough, but then to not allow you to see if the rooms will even hold beds?

JustTheOne · 03-11-2015 10:24pm

LeeLooLee wrote: »

Oh yeah, I'd go for the house, but would make damn sure they appreciated and respected it. The estate I lived on as a kid was a kip mostly because nobody respected it and took it for granted that they were given a decent, warm home for hardy any rent.

Give someone something for free and they don't value it.

Toots · 03-11-2015 10:33pm

ShaShaBear wrote: »

I would have imagined you would be allowed to inspect. I mean, it's possibly where you will be living for the rest of your life depending on your financial circumstances - surely you should be allowed to make sure it is suitable to live in? As you've just said, the council offering an apartment with two rooms to house 5 people is ridiculous enough, but then to not allow you to see if the rooms will even hold beds?

I'd have thought so! And what about if you had mobility issues? If my apartment was a social housing unit there's no way it would be fit for anyone who had any type of physical disability - the parking spot is ages away from the door, and up a load of steps! If someone signed up for it without seeing it they could end up in an apartment that they couldn't even access without assistance!

foggy_lad · 03-11-2015 11:48pm

JustTheOne wrote: »

Give someone something for free and they don't value it.

It is not free though, all council and rent allowance/RAS people have to pay rent to the local authority that has housed them. They pay council rent rates which are set at a rate to allow for the amount of income the person/family has each week.

Tigger · 04-11-2015 1:23am

foggy_lad wrote: »

It is not free though, all council and rent allowance/RAS people have to pay rent to the local authority that has housed them. They pay council rent rates which are set at a rate to allow for the amount of income the person/family has each week.

How much is it tho?

2000 refuse council housing

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