Cutting dole for criminals

Carlos Orange · 31-10-2015 02:57PM

Sam Kade wrote: »

Do you know how much it costs to keep a prisoner in jail for a year?
90k last time I checked, old fashioned or not that's a hefty sum.

If you get me an itemised list of costs I'm sure I can cut that down fairly easily.

frozenfrozen · 31-10-2015 03:00PM

It's so strange that people stand up for scumbags on this website. Where are these people when a story comes out about pensioners being tied up and beaten half to death in their own home? Can there only be one kind of criminal in your small minds?

mynamejeff · 31-10-2015 03:05PM

Skylinehead wrote: »

But that's "double punishing" someone because they're unemployed. European courts will strike that down pretty quickly.

no its punishing some one for breaking the law ,

not every one who is on the dole is a criminal you know

people choose to be criminals fine let them pay the price

meeeeh · 31-10-2015 03:05PM

frozenfrozen wrote: »

It's so strange that people stand up for scumbags on this website. Where are these people when a story comes out about pensioners being tied up and beaten half to death in their own home? Can there only be one kind of criminal in your small minds?

I would love to think that cutting dole would work but in reality it would only mean more pensioners getting their heads bashed.

Skylinehead · 31-10-2015 03:06PM

mynamejeff wrote: »

no its punishing some one for breaking the law ,

not every one who is on the dole is a criminal you know

people choose to be criminals fine let them pay the price

Person on dole is criminal.

Jail + dole cut

Person employed is criminal

Jail + ?

How is that not double punishment?

corner of hells · 31-10-2015 03:08PM

frozenfrozen wrote: »

It's so strange that people stand up for scumbags on this website. Where are these people when a story comes out about pensioners being tied up and beaten half to death in their own home? Can there only be one kind of criminal in your small minds?

I don't think anyone is standing up for criminals , they're pointing out that cutting peoples welfare or removing it forces them further into poverty , creating greater issues in society creating a destitute group of individuals.

frozenfrozen · 31-10-2015 03:10PM

meeeeh wrote: »

I would love to think that cutting dole would work but in reality it would only mean more pensioners getting their heads bashed.

I absolutely agree I'd say the only option is educating the next generation of potentially scumbag children.

Our justice system is essentially opt-in. if some scumbag lives their life in a way where they have nothing to lose, worst case scenario they go to a jail at great expense to the tax payer and once they get out they return to ruining everyone else's life.

frozenfrozen · 31-10-2015 03:11PM

corner of hells wrote: »

I don't think anyone is standing up for criminals , they're pointing out that cutting peoples welfare or removing it forces them further into poverty , creating greater issues in society creating a destitute group of individuals.

I was referring to people talking about white collar criminals vs 'true' criminals on the dole or whatever **** they're trying to peddle.

cutting dole isn't an option it would just lead to more crime

Iwasfrozen · 31-10-2015 03:14PM

frozenfrozen wrote: »

I was referring to people talking about white collar criminals vs 'true' criminals on the dole or whatever **** they're trying to peddle.

cutting dole isn't an option it would just lead to more crime

We could always cut off their hand. Saudi Arabia is a **** hole but they have very little theft.

Skylinehead · 31-10-2015 03:22PM

Iwasfrozen wrote: »

Saudi Arabia is a **** hole

Correct. Moving swiftly on from Saudi bloody Arabias penal code...

oceanid · 31-10-2015 03:33PM

Menas wrote: »

The ties between social welfare and the justice system are bad enough as things are. There are cases of people in prison still getting the dole because the two dont talk together!

Do you not have to present ID to collect dole?

Realt Dearg Sec · 31-10-2015 03:34PM

Iwasfrozen wrote: »

We could always cut off their hand. Saudi Arabia is a **** hole but they have very little theft.

Of rather have some theft and not live in an oppressive ****hole. Each to their own.

cerastes · 31-10-2015 03:36PM

Sam Kade wrote: »

Do you know how much it costs to keep a prisoner in jail for a year?
90k last time I checked, old fashioned or not that's a hefty sum.

last I heard it was 50k, well what are the basics,
you need a secure building, high capacity, better economy of scale.

Skylinehead wrote: »

Person on dole is criminal.

Jail + dole cut

Person employed is criminal

Jail + ?

How is that not double punishment?

No earnings, that plus jail means both are equal.
I find it hard to believe dole is paid to prisoners intentionally so, essentially being put in prison means the dole will be cut for at least that duration anyway.

The thing is, it seems many of our criminals are un-reformable and should be locked away, permanently if need be for the good of society.
Primarily I'm talking about violent offenders, but especially those that repeat and career criminals that commit less serious offences but do so continually, like known burglars, this has an effect on costs for decent people.
It seems like it's policy to have a revolving door system, as it looks like a nice earner for the legal profession in terms of continued business and it solves the problem of trying to find the funds to build and run a new prison.
So I find it strange when I hear people say it costs X to keep a prisoner, both that and the cost of free legal aid must be known, I think there is an obvious solution when the costs are all compared.

Essentially the free legal aid is constant cost and maintenance, put that into building and running a prison and programs to reform inmates.
I suggest, taking whats given to the legal profession and build a prison as the revolving door system isnt reforming prisoners. Prison shouldn't be easy, but it should be about reform, education, training for early exit. If you dont want to reform or do anything, no opportunity to get out early.

If you get out early and commit an offence, back in for the full term. If you end up having more offences, particularily serious ones like violence then, your next stint should not have a reduced term or early release or it should be limited to a certain amount.

What are the costs to run a prison, design, build, heat, maintain, the more prisoners you have to fill the place the cheaper it gets per head and the less staff and maintenance you will need, to a point.

Some people just aren't fit to be in society, so if you are constantly committing crimes, then put them away for a long time, eventually with limited options for release.

Iwasfrozen · 31-10-2015 03:42PM

Skylinehead wrote: »

Correct. Moving swiftly on from Saudi bloody Arabias penal code...

Very little theft however. And very little chance of re offence.

Menas · 31-10-2015 04:02PM

oceanid wrote: »

Do you not have to present ID to collect dole?

Only when you are required to sign on.

LeBash · 31-10-2015 04:02PM

Kermit.de.frog wrote:

Why is the dole not cut for people that commit criminal acts and get convictions while on social welfare?

Paul Williams mentioned this a few weeks back on the Late Late Show. He said the "bastards" (in this case it was people robbing houses in the country) are "worried about their dole" so he recommended it should be cut.

Seems simple enough? Get a conviction and have your dole either cut by x amount or stopped completely.

It would provide a lot more stick against those involved in serious crime and reassurance for tax payers.

Well if you cut the dole it gives them more reason to steal. They have even less money.

Here's a mad way of dealing with it. When they get convicted, put them in jail. Anything bar a misdemeanour should be time in jail. And after X number of the same misdemeanour, jail. Why should anyone who is law abiding have to put up with criminals of any kind walking around on the streets with 1 or 1000 convictions.

Most of us pay big taxes, so if we cut the fat out there should be plenty of money to make people a guest of the state. Plus make the convicts work to amass the sum of money it costs to keep them there. Basically it would be a self sufficient system that actually puts structure in the life of people who actually need it. When the do gooders give out, put the released cons into the areas where they are from because I'm sick of looking a scumbags walking around North Inner City.

KomradeBishop · 31-10-2015 04:04PM

Tabloid hack suggests tabloidy solution to tackling criminals shocker.

sonny.knowles · 31-10-2015 04:14PM

If we increased their dole payments then they wouldn't need to go out robbing money to feed their poor families.

Edit:

Sorry, some PC troll just hacked my account and posted the crap above.

Knee capping the scrotes would learn them.

steddyeddy · 31-10-2015 04:20PM

It's a ridiculous suggestion. People like drug dealers or racketeers don't rely on the dole. An effective criminal assets division is needed. I'll say it again Haughey's family own an island.

corner of hells · 31-10-2015 04:21PM

LeBash wrote: »

Well if you cut the dole it gives them more reason to steal. They have even less money.

Here's a mad way of dealing with it. When they get convicted, put them in jail. Anything bar a misdemeanour should be time in jail. And after X number of the same misdemeanour, jail. Why should anyone who is law abiding have to put up with criminals of any kind walking around on the streets with 1 or 1000 convictions.

Most of us pay big taxes, so if we cut the fat out there should be plenty of money to make people a guest of the state. Plus make the convicts work to amass the sum of money it costs to keep them there. Basically it would be a self sufficient system that actually puts structure in the life of people who actually need it. When the do gooders give out, put the released cons into the areas where they are from because I'm sick of looking a scumbags walking around North Inner City.

Is there a misdemeanour grade of crime in Ireland ? I thought that was the States , I think they have only misdemeanour and the felony grade.

sonny.knowles · 31-10-2015 04:23PM

steddyeddy wrote: »

It's a ridiculous suggestion. People like drug dealers or racketeers don't rely on the dole. An effective criminal assets division is needed. I'll say it again Haughey's family live on an island.

Eh....I thought we all live on an island?

steddyeddy · 31-10-2015 04:23PM

sonny.knowles wrote: »

Eh....I thought we all live on an island?

Whoops I mean the scrotes own an island.

Kermit.de.frog · 31-10-2015 04:29PM

steddyeddy wrote: »

It's a ridiculous suggestion. People like drug dealers or racketeers don't rely on the dole.

Not the point (and many of them probably do incidentally). The principle of law abiding individuals sustaining people who try to ruin the lives of any one near them in society is morally wrong.

sonny.knowles · 31-10-2015 04:32PM

Kermit.de.frog wrote: »

Not the point (and many of them probably do incidentally). The principle of law abiding individuals sustaining people who try to ruin the lives of any one near them in society is morally wrong.

Agreed, in a moral world thread people would be permanently taken out of society at minimum cost to society - ie execution, without the appeals BS. Quick and cheap.

The Randy Riverbeast · 31-10-2015 04:36PM

Has this be shown to work anywhere?

If they have less money I dont see why they would stop stealing.

corner of hells · 31-10-2015 04:36PM

sonny.knowles wrote: »

Agreed, in a moral world thread people would be permanently taken out of society at minimum cost to society - ie execution, without the appeals BS. Quick and cheap.

From cutting welfare to a utopia where execution is the answer .

sonny.knowles · 31-10-2015 04:37PM

corner of hells wrote: »

From cutting welfare to a utopia where execution is the answer .

What's your answer, smartarse?

Dyr · 31-10-2015 04:40PM

Would Paul include his pals high up in the gardai who illegally leak information to him as criminals?

Maybe we should sort them out while we're at it.

corner of hells · 31-10-2015 04:41PM

sonny.knowles wrote: »

What's your answer, smartarse?

Let's try and be adult and avoid name calling for a start.

sonny.knowles · 31-10-2015 04:42PM

corner of hells wrote: »

Let's try and be adult and avoid name calling for a start.

So you don't have one. Nice contribution.

Cutting dole for criminals

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