Should we let old cultures and langauges die out?

4zn76tysfajdxp · 28-10-2015 03:37PM

Deleted User wrote: »

Very droll, and indeed almost as funny as the time a mate of mine said that it was a mistake to outlaw capital punishment in schools. Oh, how we chuckled at that one.

Sorry, when was capital punishment ever legal in schools?

28-10-2015 03:38PM

Caoimhgh1n wrote: »

Even if everybody learned 3 languages, think of how many we could keep living...

If everybody learned the same three, not that many.

Princess Consuela Bananahammock · 28-10-2015 03:41PM

Ansley Puny Airplane wrote: »

Sorry, when was capital punishment ever legal in schools?

Capital?
He said Corporal - it was banned in 1982.

ALthoguh the way some of my teachers carried on, capital wasn't that far out of the question.

4zn76tysfajdxp · 28-10-2015 03:44PM

Princess Consuela Bananahammock wrote: »

Capital?
He said Corporal - it was banned in 1982.

ALthoguh the way some of my teachers carried on, capital wasn't that far out of the question.

Come on, he said "capital."

Low hanging fruit here, guys.

Princess Consuela Bananahammock · 28-10-2015 03:46PM

Ansley Puny Airplane wrote: »

Come on, he said "capital."

Low hanging fruit here, guys.

Either I'm going blind (possible) or no he didn't. Search of the page indicates no use of the word capital.

4zn76tysfajdxp · 28-10-2015 03:49PM

Princess Consuela Bananahammock wrote: »

Either I'm going blind (possible) or no he didn't. Search of the page indicates no use of the word capital.

It's in this post:

Deleted User wrote: »

Very droll, and indeed almost as funny as the time a mate of mine said that it was a mistake to outlaw capital punishment in schools. Oh, how we chuckled at that one.

Princess Consuela Bananahammock · 28-10-2015 03:52PM

Ansley Puny Airplane wrote: »

It's in this post:

Sorry, was looking at this one....

Deleted User wrote: »

I didn't realise you were old enough to have been at school when corporal punishment was on the go.

I was.

... but then why did you accuse him of being 140 years old...?

28-10-2015 03:56PM

Ansley Puny Airplane wrote: »

Come on, he said "capital."

Low hanging fruit here, guys.

They banned corporal punishment in 1982, after I left school.

Some time later, a mate of mine was attempting to comment on that, but said "capital" instead of "corporal".

Oh, how we chuckled at his mistake.

Got it now?

28-10-2015 03:59PM

Princess Consuela Bananahammock wrote: »

... but then why did you accuse him of being 140 years old...?

That's too easy, teech.

Because until you pointed it out, Frada didn't realise that corporal punishment was allowed in schools until the 1980s.

4zn76tysfajdxp · 28-10-2015 04:00PM

Princess Consuela Bananahammock wrote: »

Sorry, was looking at this one....

... but then why did you accuse him of being 140 years old...?

:rolleyes:

pickarooney · 28-10-2015 04:06PM

When jokes go horribly wrong.
Flusterchuckle

Wibbs · 28-10-2015 04:35PM

FloatingVoter wrote: »

The two dominant languages worldwide today are English and Chinese.

Nope. English yes, Chinese no. On pure numbers yes Chinese is up there, but the vast majority of speakers of the various dialects are themselves Chinese. English is spoken by far more people outside England, multitudes more. Ditto for Spanish and French. Into the future? Hard to call, but I'd bet Chinese won't ever be a lingua franca except in China itself. It's a tonal language so this makes it a) harder to learn for non natives and b) harder to understand across different accents. The slightest intonational change on an Ahh sound can change a word entirely. On the other hand a heavily accented English speaking Mexican is much more likely to be understood by a heavily accented English speaking German, or Chinese, or… Secondly the written form is daftly overly complex(ditto for Arabic) and the Chinese themselves have tried to simplify it, but it's still a bit of a mess. The old jokes about the size of a Chinese typewriter comes to mind. Even if China "took over the world"(which it won't) English is so global now that it would still be in the top three. It's the international language of business, aviation, science, IT.

Hebrew is a very good example of a revived language, however it's also a special case. It came back because it pretty much needed to. The new state of Israel required an official language because of the diaspora of Jews showing up from all over Europe with different native languages. They needed a common language*. This is where the common comparison with Irish and how we could revive it nationally falls down. We already had/have a common language in English.

*Though previously in the 20's IIRC German of all languages was briefly considered as a workable language in Palestine.

Zillah · 28-10-2015 05:00PM

Wibbs wrote: »

They needed a common language*. This is where the common comparison with Irish and how we could revive it nationally falls down. We already had/have a common language in English.

Ok, so what we do is - bear with me - we invite home all of the non-English-speaking Irish diaspora from Germany, France, etc - wherever - and then in the ensuing confusion we declare Irish the only official language and use it to tie together our new, bloated republic.

I'm working with what I have here.

Mesrine65 · 28-10-2015 05:17PM

steddyeddy wrote: »

So should the whole world speak one language? If so which one?

Esperanto

Mesrine65 · 28-10-2015 05:26PM

Deleted User wrote: »

Et voilà! :D:D

(that's French for "and there it is!", in case our English speakers need a translation)

Ferme ta putain de gueule connard :P

Dr.Internet · 28-10-2015 05:26PM

yes, now let's never speak of this again

Celtarion · 28-10-2015 06:26PM

What's interesting is while Brittany defends the right to have breton language as a recognised language, Ireland is working on killing its own language!

Lately, the French Senate killed the right to freedom of expression, meaning that, French is the only recognised language in France.

"Jacobin France continues to show its ugly chauvinistic face.
Recognition and promotion of regional and minority languages are considered "a threat to the main principles of the French state".

Obviously, this state was built on the completely wrong ones and it is high time we rebuild it.
"Liberté, égalité, fraternité" remain an unknown concept in France
The French Senate rejects ratification of the European Charter of Regional and Minority Languages, pending from 1999

In another shockingly shameful display of Jacobinism, the French Senate decided yesterday to reject the proposal of Francois Hollande for the ratification of the European Charter for Regional and Minority Languages, signed by France already in 1999.

Even today, official Paris does not recognize the use of these languages on a regional and local level, despite the ongoing protests and the public outcry. Just a few days ago, thousands of people went to the streets in several cities, demanding co-officiality status for Basque, Breton, Catalan, Corsican, Alsatian German and Occitan.
Unfortunately, through yesterday's decision, the French Jacobin (para)state showed for yet another time its contempt to the will of people but also to the promises of its own president. "

MadsL · 28-10-2015 07:22PM

Wibbs wrote: »

Hebrew is a very good example of a revived language, however it's also a special case. It came back because it pretty much needed to. The new state of Israel required an official language because of the diaspora of Jews showing up from all over Europe with different native languages. They needed a common language*. This is where the common comparison with Irish and how we could revive it nationally falls down. We already had/have a common language in English.

Hmmm...The example of the Czech language springs to mind, heavily surpressed by the Austro-Hungarian empire it pretty much vanished under the regional weight of German as a lingua-franca. Establishing the first Czech Republic in 1918 lead to a desire to rebuild the language and Old Czech was reformulated into Modern Czech by an academic and taught extensive in schools. The republic espoused speaking Czech rather than German in public life and in just a thirty year period brought Czech back to life. Of course, in 1938 German arrived again and Czech was once more suppressed, followed by Russian ideas about what language should be spoken.

TL;DR The Czechs had a common language in German and revived their native language successfully.

28-10-2015 07:27PM

Mesrine65 wrote: »

Ferme ta putain de gueule connard :P

Bí cúramach. Is é an Bhéarla an t-aon teanga oifigiúil atá ceadaithe ar boards.ie. De bharr sin, caithfidh tú aon teachtaireacht a scríobhann tú in aon teanga eile a aistriú go Bhéarla. Féach ar na rialacha muna gcreideann tú mé.

Nílimse ach é sin a rá.

Mbhahahahahaha.

Careful. English is the sole official language permitted on boards.ie. Accordingly, you are required to provide an English translation of any message you post in any other language. Check out the rules if you don't believe me.

Just saying.

Mwahahahahaha.

eeguy · 28-10-2015 07:29PM

eternal wrote: »

If that culture was forgotten, you wouldn't be aware of how far we have evolved.

We're not going to burn all mention of it, but is there a reason to actively promote a language that's no longer used?

Wibbs · 28-10-2015 07:29PM

MadsL wrote: »

TL;DR The Czechs had a common language in German and revived their native language successfully.

That's a much better example alright MadsL. Other ex Soviet Bloc nations would come into it too(though had only decades of foreign language oppression). Basque could be thrown in to the mix too. Catalan had a bigger starting point alright but has grown a lot in recent decades.

IMH in the end of the day Irish didn't and very likely won't have a successful rebirth to that degree quite simply because the Irish people themselves don't have enough of an attachment to it to revive it. Successive drives since the founding of the state have done little to stem the decline from pre independence levels, never mind 18/19th century levels. As I've noted before the Irish diaspora almost uniquely dropped the language like a hot potato the minute they landed in the various new world countries. Even more puzzling as the majority of those people who emigrated in the 19th and 20th century were likely originally from more Irish speaking areas, as they were the areas more likely to be economically depressed(or in earlier days affected by the Famine). While say Irish Americans go all dewy eyed about the old sod the language is way down the list.

Aongus Von Bismarck · 28-10-2015 07:30PM

English is the dominant language in business. I work in Germany and will converse in German with my colleagues at lunch and when socialising. The international spread of our client base means English is the language used though for the vast majority of interactions.

It would be far more of a hindrance for one of my German colleagues not to be fluent in English, than for me not to be fluent in German.

Shep_Dog · 28-10-2015 07:33PM

Eugene Norman wrote: »

The problem with this argument is that Irish is in fact an official language. Of equal status. That needs to change before either the language is non-obligatory in schools

Both languages are equal but (in the OLA) Irish is more equal than English. However, this legal fiction is not directly related to compulsory Irish in schools.

Eugene Norman wrote: »

and before we can condemn conradh for wishing one official language rather than the other is the most widely spoken.

This misrepresents Conradh's objectives. They want to replace English with Irish as our common language. Its' a free country and we can criticise this any time we want.

Eugene Norman wrote: »

There doesn't seem to be much desire for such a change.

There is no great desire to speak Irish either.

Eugene Norman wrote: »

Not seeing a power play either.

You have not read their statements? They want all teachers taught through the medium of Irish, the implementation in full of the Official Languages Act. Public jobs reserved for Irish-linguists. And, lots of money to be given to Irish-speakers. The power play comes in when they tell their followers who not to vote for.

Irish-speakers are not a disadvantaged minority like Australian or South-American aboriginals.

Iwasfrozen · 28-10-2015 07:37PM

steddyeddy wrote: »

So should the whole world speak one language? If so which one?

English or Spanish would be the obvious choices. If the whole world decided on another language I'd drop English like a shot. The thought of the entire world speaking one language is amazing.

Bulbous Salutation · 28-10-2015 07:44PM

Iwasfrozen wrote: »

English or Spanish would be the obvious choices. If the whole world decided on another language I'd drop English like a shot. The thought of the entire world speaking one language is amazing.

Technology will be the enabler of such a change. Automated translation is still rudimentary, but it's reaching a stage where it's becoming 'good enough'. Voice recognition is a notoriously difficult task for computing to crack, but there's no overarching barrier to a day where real-time voice translation could happen on the fly.

Iwasfrozen · 28-10-2015 07:49PM

Mesrine65 wrote: »

Esperanto

Actually a really nice language.

Iwasfrozen · 28-10-2015 08:11PM

sup_dude wrote: »

Irish sounds very much like Tolkien Elvish in my mind, and that for that reason (along with more sensible reasons) it should be kept and encouraged.

You think so? I think it sounds far more like black speech of Mordor. Considering Tolkien's dislike for it that wouldn't surprise me.

In a letter to Deborah Webster, dated October 1958, he wrote: “I go frequently to Ireland (Éire: southern Ireland) being fond of it and of (most of) its people; but the Irish language I find wholly unattractive.”

Some years later, in “Drafts for a letter to Mrs Rang”, Tolkien considered the etymology of the word “nazg”, the Black Speech word for “ring”, which featured so prominently in The Lord of the Rings.

n his letter, Tolkien admitted a similarity to the Irish word “nasc”, but put this down to coincidence.

“I have no liking at all for Gaelic from Old Irish downwards, as a language, but it is of course of great historical and philological interest, and I have at various times studied it. (With alas! very little success.)

“It is thus probable that nazg is actually derived from it, and this short, hard and clear vocable, sticking out from what seems to me (an unloving alien) a mushy language, became lodged in some comer of my linguistic memory.”
In 1979, Prof George Sayer recounted a conversation he had with Tolkien, a devout Catholic, who described Ireland as “naturally evil”.

He could “feel”, Sayer said, “evil coming up from the earth, from the peat bogs, from the clumps of trees, even from the cliffs, and this evil was only held in check by the great devotion of the southern Irish to their religion.” An Hobad, nó Anonn agus Ar Ais Arís, is published by Evertype and will reach the bookshelves at the end of March.

http://www.irishtimes.com/news/adventures-of-biolbó-baigín-set-out-as-gaeilge-in-an-hobad-1.479457

FloatingVoter · 28-10-2015 08:25PM

Princess Consuela Bananahammock wrote: »

Capital?
He said Corporal - it was banned in 1982.

ALthoguh the way some of my teachers carried on, capital wasn't that far out of the question.

This is correct. Corporal punishment as in grown men and women inflicting violence upon children was being practiced on children in Courtenay Boys National School at leat until 1987 and St. Itas Secondary School, Newcastle West up until 1992. Anyone willing to sue me for libel / slander on that point will need a large chequebook because I will take your house along with your name.. I bite back and always remember.
Please, name and shame other schools post '82 that did this. The perverts and sadists that masqueraded as teachers didn't stop getting their thrills just because somebody made their hobby illegal.

BlaasForRafa · 28-10-2015 09:10PM

Iwasfrozen wrote: »

You think so? I think it sounds far more like black speech of Mordor. Considering Tolkien's dislike for it that wouldn't surprise me.

I think you are largely correct, the elvish languages are closer to Finnish and Welsh than they are to Irish.

Iwasfrozen · 28-10-2015 11:15PM

BlaasForRafa wrote: »

I think you are largely correct, the elvish languages are closer to Finnish and Welsh than they are to Irish.

Yep and given the quote it would seem that Tolkien based the black speech of Mordor at least unintentionally on Irish.

Should we let old cultures and langauges die out?

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