Anyone sick of Tom Meagher and Jenny Stanley?

OneArt · 26-10-2015 02:33AM

josephryan1989 wrote: »

I'd bite their dicks off! If a bunch of gay fellas were doing that a few cars loads of fellas would be around quick with hurleys, bats and iron bars to sort them out.

There's a world of a difference between me looking at a woman's arse and complimenting her and some weirdo with a horn following her home.
I'd be the first to batter some fella if he was in a girl's face like that.
A few lads having the craic is not the same as a bunch of guys actually surrounding the girl and not letting her by and making her cry and run for her life.
So you see that's what I was on about.
Demonizing all men and making them all out to be f*cking rapists!

Saying "Howye sweetheart" and whistling and having a laugh and the craic is not the same as some scumbag saying something absolutely disgusting and threatening to rape and sodomize some young one.

What Stanley and Meagher are on about is making men on a stag night or a bunch of guys drinking after game out to be potential rapists.

Which is a load of f*cking b*ll*cks.

The overwhelming majority of men would never dream of assaulting or raping a girl and to say that banter and having a laugh is the same as scumbags taking liberties is a f*cking joke.

Only a tiny minority.

You must be afraid to go out your front door. God love ya!

You'd bite their dicks off? Seriously? They'd knock you out before you had a chance. Like I said in the story, you're alone. By the time the lads with the hurleys got there, it'd be too late.

In the story, the lads weren't surrounding you. They were just 'having the craic' in their terms. The problem here is that you don't know that: one person's craic is another person's warning sign. They probably didn't think they were doing harm and just having a bit of a laugh. Again, you have NO IDEA whether it's just a joke whether they mean business.

And again, you're absolutely right: most men wouldn't dream of assaulting or raping a girl. But to reiterate my point: the girl can't be 100% sure. Saying 'howiye sweetheart' is frequently meant with the best of intentions, but you never know if it's really meant that way or if you're in real danger.

I'm glad you'd have a go at someone who got up in a girl's face though. The world needs more people like you.

And as a male person I find Meagher's stance offensive and damaging. I'm absolutely with you on that, and it's what I stated at the start of my post.

The point I'm making is that women feel intimidated because in such a situation there is no way of telling whether it's just a bit of harmless fun or if you're in real danger. I'm just trying to get guys to look at it from a woman's perspective.

stinkle · 26-10-2015 02:33AM

josephryan1989 wrote: »

There's a world of a difference between me looking at a woman's arse and complimenting her and some weirdo with a horn following her home.
I'd be the first to batter some fella if he was in a girl's face like that.
A few lads having the craic is not the same as a bunch of guys actually surrounding the girl and not letting her by and making her cry and run for her life.
So you see that's what I was on about.
Demonizing all men and making them all out to be f*cking rapists!

Do you realise a lone woman might not want you looking at her arse and making her feel uncomfortable? You might not actually follow a woman home, but she doesnt know that and your behaviour IS that of some weirdo with a horn.

I dont see why anyone would be sick of the woman who wrote one letter into a newspaper, no. She made lots of valid points and I've been in her situation several times.

As for slating the widower of a woman who was brutally raped and murdered for speaking out about his experience and trying to prevent it from happening to anyone else - again, why would anyone be sick of that? The point he was trying to make wasnt that every man is a potential rapist, it's that potential rapists can easily blend in as there isnt a particular physical characteristic of a rapist.

How do you know one of "the lads" having the craic and banter with you isnt one, for example?

arayess · 26-10-2015 10:09AM

stinkle wrote: »

As for slating the widower of a woman who was brutally raped and murdered for speaking out about his experience and trying to prevent it from happening to anyone else - again, why would anyone be sick of that? The point he was trying to make wasnt that every man is a potential rapist, it's that potential rapists can easily blend in as there isnt a particular physical characteristic of a rapist.

How do you know one of "the lads" having the craic and banter with you isnt one, for example?

actually tom meagher went a lot further he was demanding men tackle the male friends for using inappropriate comments and jokes in private implying that anybody who made a demeaning joke about women was a potential rapist. That's rad feminist thinking to a tee.

He also fronted a pathetic campaign that "real men don't buy it"
implying that a man who went to an escort was somehow a lesser man.

http://www.independent.ie/videos/irish-news/video-archive-prostitution-we-dont-buy-it-campaign-launch-by-jill-meaghers-husband-tom-31163021.html

fcuk off Tom Meagher.

Being a tragic victim of a sex attacker and killer doesn't make Tom Meagher an expert on sexual predators or potential ones.

I'm stuck in a bind here cos I think the OP is right with many points but has gone off on a mad one in subsequent replies that I'm like ""steady on there".

26-10-2015 10:22AM

josephryan1989 wrote: »

When a group of men see a nice bum on a night out in Dublin they are going to say it out loud and that is that.

Say it out loud to the woman?

That makes them a group of bums. And not a nice one either.

josephryan1989 · 26-10-2015 11:19AM

OneArt wrote: »

You'd bite their dicks off? Seriously? They'd knock you out before you had a chance. Like I said in the story, you're alone. By the time the lads with the hurleys got there, it'd be too late.

In the story, the lads weren't surrounding you. They were just 'having the craic' in their terms. The problem here is that you don't know that: one person's craic is another person's warning sign. They probably didn't think they were doing harm and just having a bit of a laugh. Again, you have NO IDEA whether it's just a joke whether they mean business.

Well enough of the sci-fi. Gay guys don't act aggressively toward straight men because they would literally get hammered by a lynch mob. So give it up.

And again, you're absolutely right: most men wouldn't dream of assaulting or raping a girl. But to reiterate my point: the girl can't be 100% sure. Saying 'howiye sweetheart' is frequently meant with the best of intentions, but you never know if it's really meant that way or if you're in real danger.

You must be terrified to go into town all together. All those rapists everywhere!:D

I'm glad you'd have a go at someone who got up in a girl's face though. The world needs more people like you.

Well I've sisters and if some scumbag was pawing them and aggressively getting in their face I would floor him. If he was just a lad having a laugh I'd just laugh too.

And as a male person I find Meagher's stance offensive and damaging. I'm absolutely with you on that, and it's what I stated at the start of my post.

The point I'm making is that women feel intimidated because in such a situation there is no way of telling whether it's just a bit of harmless fun or if you're in real danger. I'm just trying to get guys to look at it from a woman's perspective.

When nut jobs in the media and academia and politics are scaremongering is it any wonder young women get confused.

A lot of people these days are wrapped in cotton wool.

OneArt · 26-10-2015 11:36AM

josephryan1989 wrote: »

Well enough of the sci-fi. Gay guys don't act aggressively toward straight men because they would literally get hammered by a lynch mob. So give it up.

You must be terrified to go into town all together. All those rapists everywhere!:D

Well I've sisters and if some scumbag was pawing them and aggressively getting in their face I would floor him. If he was just a lad having a laugh I'd just laugh too.

When nut jobs in the media and academia and politics are scaremongering is it any wonder young women get confused.

A lot of people these days are wrapped in cotton wool.

That was an extreme example.

But it happens on smaller scales too.

You don't seem to understand and/or read my posts properly, or take a moment to consider what things might be like for the other party. And that's a big problem.

And I've had far worse done to me than heckling. Don't worry, I still manage to leave the house without ****ting my pants

.

osarusan · 26-10-2015 11:39AM

Anyone sick of OP?

Fleawuss · 26-10-2015 11:42AM

josephryan1989 wrote: »

It's called a free society. If you aren't being physically attacked or robbed then it's not a crime

And how very inclusive to include (man or woman). Very well done. 5 stars!

To put someone in fear of assault is also a crime.
2.—(1) A person shall be guilty of the offence of assault who, without lawful excuse, intentionally or recklessly—

(a) directly or indirectly applies force to or causes an impact on the body of another, or

(b) causes another to believe on reasonable grounds that he or she is likely ...

http://www.irishstatutebook.ie/eli/1997/act/26/section/2/enacted/en/html#sec2

KERSPLAT! · 26-10-2015 11:43AM

Mod

I'm in two minds as to whether to close this or not.

For now can we stay on topic, attack the post and not the poster and be civil. Any more trolling will be met with cards and/or bans

edit: and yes, that means you, OP, as well as others.

Cat Melodeon · 26-10-2015 12:19PM

Had the absolute **** beaten out of me and was almost raped on my way home from my pub job in Phibsborough a few years back by a wee scumbag. I'm not frail but was not expecting it so he floored me. I was lucky to escape with my life. That started with 'banter'.

I was terrorised by a gang of big southside rugger buggers on the way home from the pub in Rathmines one night - they surrounded me and mauled me and got very cross when I did go along with their banter, their game, the endpoint of which seemed to involve each of them expecting to get sucked off by me. I was terrified, was saved before it got that far by screaming for a group of people walking up the street. But it was just a bit of craic. Have had countless other experiences like this.

You don't know what a woman has experienced in her life. You have no idea how evil, hurtful & terrifying your 'banter' be. Now you do. If you continue acting in this way, you do so knowing full well that you may be hurting women. That's misogyny. Well done you.

cowboyBuilder · 26-10-2015 12:22PM

RayM wrote: »

By claiming that obnoxious behaviour amongst groups of men is the norm, it's people like you who do men a disservice, not Tom Meagher.

Bollix

His point is spot on.

If you believe all men haven't acted a bit of a dick on a night out at least once in their lives, then keep your head in the sand.

and what the hell are these "consent courses" for men anyway ?

So all men are rapists untill proved otherwise ?

What about "Anti stealing" courses? because we are all potential shoplifters really aren't we?

26-10-2015 12:33PM

cowboyBuilder wrote: »

Bollix

His point is spot on.

If you believe all men haven't acted a bit of a dick on a night out at least once in their lives, then keep your head in the sand.

I don't think making sexual or boorish comments to a complete stranger is "being a bit of a dick on one night out". It's being a complete dick on a much more permanent basis, with the mask slipping when drunk.

26-10-2015 12:44PM

Cat Melodeon wrote: »

Had the absolute **** beaten out of me and was almost raped on my way home from my pub job in Phibsborough a few years back by a wee scumbag. I'm not frail but was not expecting it so he floored me. I was lucky to escape with my life. That started with 'banter'.

I was terrorised by a gang of big southside rugger buggers on the way home from the pub in Rathmines one night - they surrounded me and mauled me and got very cross when I did go along with their banter, their game, the endpoint of which seemed to involve each of them expecting to get sucked off by me. I was terrified, was saved before it got that far by screaming for a group of people walking up the street. But it was just a bit of craic. Have had countless other experiences like this.

You don't know what a woman has experienced in her life. You have no idea how evil, hurtful & terrifying your 'banter' be. Now you do. If you continue acting in this way, you do so knowing full well that you may be hurting women. That's misogyny. Well done you.

Spoke about it on another thread, but have one very close friend who describes experiences very like yours, getting into a car with men she knew and the "banter" becoming very pointed and ugly very quickly as they made their intentions clear while they insisted she accompany them to one of their houses. It only ended when she tried to ring her own brother to intervene.

The lads are the local GAA heroes, the gas men who stand around in the pub and make boorish comments about women's asses.

Oh and they raped another girl at a party a few years back, she was insensible on drink.

Snickers Man · 26-10-2015 12:44PM

I saw that Jenny Stanley rant online somewhere. It was introduced as "the one piece every man must read today" So I dutifully did and I thought "Oh God. This is a poor (wo)man's attempt at a Panti Bliss-like "Noble Call".

A load of self-absorbed piffle that makes generalised allegations against all and sundry, avoids the main points and encourages the most disgusting and unjustified self righteousness.

I can see people bristling up now. "Oh there he goes! Blaming the gays for everything. What a homophobe!!"

Which is kinda my point.

I wish David Norris were president.
I wish Panti Bliss would disappear blissfully into obscurity and get the hell out of my face.
I wish some young men were better mannered.
I wish some young women would distinguish between boorish bravado and genuine malevolence.

RayM · 26-10-2015 12:52PM

cowboyBuilder wrote: »

If you believe all men haven't acted a bit of a dick on a night out at least once in their lives, then keep your head in the sand.

I don't believe all men harass people on nights out. A minority of idiots do.

josephryan1989 · 26-10-2015 01:07PM

Fleawuss wrote: »

To put someone in fear of assault is also a crime.
2.—(1) A person shall be guilty of the offence of assault who, without lawful excuse, intentionally or recklessly—

(a) directly or indirectly applies force to or causes an impact on the body of another, or

(b) causes another to believe on reasonable grounds that he or she is likely ...

http://www.irishstatutebook.ie/eli/1997/act/26/section/2/enacted/en/html#sec2

Give me a break! Gardaí aren't arresting and charging guys for wolf whistling and whooping at women when they swing past them and you know it.

josephryan1989 · 26-10-2015 01:22PM

Cat Melodeon wrote: »

Had the absolute **** beaten out of me and was almost raped on my way home from my pub job in Phibsborough a few years back by a wee scumbag. I'm not frail but was not expecting it so he floored me. I was lucky to escape with my life. That started with 'banter'.

You were in hard luck but that scumbag represents only a tiny minority of men. I've I saw a scumbag doing that I would immediately intervene and clobber him.

I was terrorised by a gang of big southside rugger buggers on the way home from the pub in Rathmines one night - they surrounded me and mauled me and got very cross when I did go along with their banter, their game, the endpoint of which seemed to involve each of them expecting to get sucked off by me. I was terrified, was saved before it got that far by screaming for a group of people walking up the street. But it was just a bit of craic. Have had countless other experiences like this.

There is a world of a difference between scumbags like that and some cheerful guys who simply shout "How ye gorgeous! Love your bum!" or "See ya in Coppers later yeah?" as she or a group of girls walk past them on a night out. They aren't holding the women up or strongarming them or anything. They are just having a laugh and having a bit of craic. When a group of guys start pawing girls or trying to imprison them so they will stick around that is crossing the line. If you can't tell the difference then you are hysterical.

You don't know what a woman has experienced in her life. You have no idea how evil, hurtful & terrifying your 'banter' be.

Yeah. She might have been gang raped by ISIS or something. We all have to fix bayonets and lock up all the men quick!

Now you do. If you continue acting in this way, you do so knowing full well that you may be hurting women. That's misogyny. Well done you.

Hurting women who are too frail to walk down the street.

Fleawuss · 26-10-2015 01:54PM

josephryan1989 wrote: »

Give me a break! Gardaí aren't arresting and charging guys for wolf whistling and whooping at women when they swing past them and you know it.

Indeed I do. But you don't seem to know what you wrote, I quoted and rebutted from Irish statute. Maybe it's a"lad" thing not to know what you wrote or read what others say in reply. Maybe it's all about saying what a lad wants and doing what he wants. Maybe it's all about frustration testosterone and ego.

PS I enjoy my middle class life enormously and I'm grateful to my mixture of working class and rural poor parents for helping me get it. I'm gay too btw and I'm intrigued by the summoning of "lads" to beat with hurleys and iron bars any gay who would dare wolf whistle a guy. Maybe what the wolf whistling bantering "lads" need is a few car loads of camogie playing feminazis to descend on them and clatter the Shyte out of them. Just to level the playing field so to speak.

You may like to know but I doubt it that gays don't have to wolf whistle guys to get beaten up. But "lads" will be "lads" won't they.

Sharia 4 U · 26-10-2015 01:58PM

Boring username wrote: »

You know, I was going to start a thread on this earlier. I dunno if Tom Meagher is the full shilling, tbh. Either that or he is suffering from some major PTSD or guilt complex, and he now feels the need to set himself up as a whipping boy for extreme feminists who will milk him for every ounce of publicity before dumping him without a second thought.

It was very tragic what happened to Jill Meagher, but I don't think Tom is doing her memory any help by publicly crucifying himself here. The man needs counselling fast, I hope someone close to him can advise him and set him straight.

That's what I was thinking. It seems the trauma of what happen to his poor wife has broke him mentally. I mean he's using the language of the worst type of man-hating feminists. The poor man needs help.

josephryan1989 · 26-10-2015 02:09PM

Fleawuss wrote: »

Indeed I do. But you don't seem to know what you wrote, I quoted and rebutted from Irish statute. Maybe it's a"lad" thing not to know what you wrote or read what others say in reply. Maybe it's all about saying what a lad wants and doing what he wants. Maybe it's all about frustration testosterone and ego.

PS I enjoy my middle class life enormously and I'm grateful to my mixture of working class and rural poor parents for helping me get it. I'm gay too btw and I'm intrigued by the summoning of "lads" to beat with hurleys and iron bars any gay who would dare wolf whistle a guy.

Gay marriage is legal. What more do you want? I voted for gay marriage by the way. Don't push it now!

Maybe what the wolf whistling bantering "lads" need is a few car loads of camogie playing feminazis to descend on them and clatter the Shyte out of them.

Sci-fi.

You may like to know but I doubt it that gays don't have to wolf whistle guys to get beaten up. But "lads" will be "lads" won't they.

As sure as night follows day if gays started getting out of line and forget their place they will get beaten up. Just a fact of life really.

strelok · 26-10-2015 02:16PM

why is it out of line when gay men do it but ok when straight men do it

26-10-2015 02:21PM

josephryan1989 wrote: »

As sure as night follows day if gays started getting out of line and forget their place they will get beaten up. Just a fact of life really.

What world do you live in where you glibly suggest gays get beaten up for forgetting their place and it's fine for men to approach women they don't know and comment on their asses?

It sounds a bit like Last Exit to Brooklyn. It's not the society I socialise in. I do know some of the boorish dicks you refer to but frankly would rather talk to a cabbage than spent a minute in their company, and wouldn't refer to them as the norm or their behaviour as anything other than contemptuous.

LDN_Irish · 26-10-2015 02:22PM

strelok wrote: »

why is it out of line when gay men do it but ok when straight men do it

Something about people knowing their places and night following day.

Cat Melodeon · 26-10-2015 02:22PM

josephryan1989 wrote: »

You were in hard luck but that scumbag represents only a tiny minority of men. I've I saw a scumbag doing that I would immediately intervene and clobber him.

That's nice of you. Would you have stopped him if you'd passed during the banter phase of our interaction? It was the same guy, but you think his initial harassment was acceptable. Could you have told it would have led to serious assault? Cos I couldn't.

josephryan1989 wrote: »

There is a world of a difference between scumbags like that and some cheerful guys who simply shout "How ye gorgeous! Love your bum!" or "See ya in Coppers later yeah?" as she or a group of girls walk past them on a night out. They aren't holding the women up or strongarming them or anything. They are just having a laugh and having a bit of craic. When a group of guys start pawing girls or trying to imprison them so they will stick around that is crossing the line. If you can't tell the difference then you are hysterical.

I am not hysterical. I am careful. Attempted rape following on from banter has made me careful. How are we to know which bantering tool is an eejit & which is dangerous? You all look like slobbering drunks for the most part, how are we supposed to know which of you are over the edge?

josephryan1989 wrote: »

Hurting women who are too frail to walk down the street.

Yes. 'Too frail' is BS, any person alone is vulnerable, but essentially, yes. Enjoy doing that, do you?

josephryan1989 · 26-10-2015 02:23PM

strelok wrote: »

why is it out of line when gay men do it but ok when straight men do it

Straight men gave women the right to vote and gave gays the right to marry.
We make all the important decisions, do all the heavy lifting, invent and pay for everything and we call the shots.
End of.

KERSPLAT! · 26-10-2015 02:24PM

josephryan1989 don't post in this thread again.

Please don't reply to josephryan1989 here as he can't answer any questions

LDN_Irish · 26-10-2015 02:37PM

I read the Jenny Stanley piece (although I didn't know her name) and thought that although a lot of what she described was a bit much some of it was harmless and her conflating the 2 was needlessly blurring a line between simply saying hello and harassment.

Having read the OP's posts and the bang of creepiness off them I'm actually a lot more convinced that Stanley had a point. Looks a lot like someone trying really hard to be an alpha and is claiming he'd summon car loads of lads armed with weapons to keep gay men in their place but women should know just by the hack of him that what he says to them is just harmless banter and he'd never use violence to keep a woman in her place.

I have a feeling this is very little to do with being sexually attracted to the women he harasses and much more to do with looking the LAD in front of his friends. I'd bet money he's never saying "nice arse love" to women while he's walking alone and it's only when there's a few lads with him to confirm he's a legend.

Thanks OP! I was pretty sceptical of the Stanley piece and the "10 hours walking as a woman in NYC" video that came out a few months back but you've inadvertently helped me see things from that writer and video maker's perspective. It's been quite cringey to read though.

Ectoplasm · 26-10-2015 02:42PM

josephryan1989 wrote: »

Give any group of men a few drinks and in no time they will sing lusty sexually suggestive songs and rude jokes and make exaggerated macho sexual displays to passing women. None of them are stupid enough to think that women will drop their drawers and group copulate with them on the street. They are not going to go on the rampage gang raping every woman they see like some marauding barbarian army. It's clearly just fun and no harm is meant whatsoever.

This part of your post stood out, paticularly the last line. Macho sexually displays are fun for whom exactly? There is no harm meant? Except plenty of people will tell you that it is NOT fun and that it causes harm to them...but it's OK to ignore that right, because you're just having a laugh. FFS

I actually admire Tom Meagher and found his description of coming to realise that his wife's killer was not clearly and obviously a recognizably-by-sight-monster incredibly powerful. You may not agree and that's fine but please don't give me the bs line of 'oh it's all good harmless fun' when talking about street harassment because that's what it is...harassment.

strandroad · 26-10-2015 02:49PM

LDN_Irish wrote: »

Having read the OP's posts and the bang of creepiness off them I'm actually a lot more convinced that Stanley had a point. Looks a lot like someone trying really hard to be an alpha and is claiming he'd summon car loads of lads armed with weapons to keep gay men in their place but women should know just by the hack of him that what he says to them is just harmless banter and he'd never use violence to keep a woman in her place.

That's it exactly, when it happens to you you have no way of knowing if someone had too much to drink or if he's scum who's going to escalate if you don't allow yourself to be treated in this way. And they do it in packs, I've never heard a comment from a guy on his own so it's very likely that it's an approval seeking thing and if someone's mates are sound they can actually make him drop it so I see merit in campaigns like this one.

All in all a woman should be able to walk from A to B without being harassed, I have no idea what's in someone's head if they feel it's their god given right to "compliment" randomers but OP's posts provide good insight into how this attitude is formed and it's awful to read.

brooke 2 · 26-10-2015 02:56PM

EMF2010 wrote: »

This part of your post stood out, paticularly the last line. Macho sexually displays are fun for whom exactly? There is no harm meant? Except plenty of people will tell you that it is NOT fun and that it causes harm to them...but it's OK to ignore that right, because you're just having a laugh. FFS

I actually admire Tom Meagher and found his description of coming to realise that his wife's killer was not clearly and obviously a recognizably-by-sight-monster incredibly powerful. You may not agree and that's fine but please don't give me the bs line of 'oh it's all good harmless fun' when talking about street harassment because that's what it is...harassment.

I remember Tom Meagher's almost stunned shock as he expressed how he felt when he heard his wife's rapist speak for the first time. Tom could not get over how ordinary this guy sounded as he seemingly was expecting him to be some kind of monster. This is the point he is trying to make when he says anybody could be a potential rapist - the man who raped and murdered his wife was quite good looking, nothing out of the ordinary about his appearance.

Anyone sick of Tom Meagher and Jenny Stanley?

Comments