All Stations To Bray on the DART?

10000maniacs · 23-10-2015 11:38AM

lxflyer wrote: »

I doubt very much this would happen if a train was 5 minutes late, it would only happen in the event of significant delays.

The delays could happen after the train has left the first station, or after a bus has left the terminus. For example this morning Dublin bus has been massively affected by an accident on the north quays and has had to cancel/curtail multiple journeys to get buses and drivers back on schedule.

Should they have foreseen that before people started their journeys?

Also, the driver doesn't make these decisions - the controllers do.

As for leaf fall - there is a big notice on the IE website about it.

Let's be honest about this - this is is not the norm - it is very much the exception, and only happens where there are significant delays.

Some of the posts here would imply it's happening every day, which it certainly is not.

That does not make any sense.
Biffo's scenario has happened to me too.
And any time it has happened to me there was no announcement of delays and the train was approximately on time.
You would only save 5 minutes by skipping Killiney and Shankill anyway so your figures don't add up .
You can keep thanking yourselves all you want to. It Does not impress me either or make your point any less obtuse.

carrolls · 23-10-2015 11:44AM

10000maniacs wrote: »

That does not make any sense.
Biffo's scenario has happened to me too.
And any time it has happened to me there was no announcement of delays and the train was approximately on time.
You would only save 5 minutes by skipping Killiney and Shankill anyway so your figures don't add up .
You can keep thanking yourselves all you want to. It Does not impress me either or make your point any less obtuse.

Good point.
No point in making any valid arguments here. The IE insiders have the place sown up. its like an ITGWU convention here.:)
What's going on here is the drivers need an extra 5 or 6 minutes for a sandwich, coffee and a fag in Bray before the next journey.

LXFlyer · 23-10-2015 11:45AM

10000maniacs wrote: »

That does not make any sense.
Biffo's scenario has happened to me too.
And any time it has happened to me there was no announcement of delays and the train was approximately on time.
You would only save 5 minutes by skipping Killiney and Shankill anyway so your figures don't add up .
You can keep thanking yourselves all you want to. It Does not impress me either or make your point any less obtuse.

Firstly I haven't been thanking anyone.

I just cannot believe that the train was on time if this happened - that would not make any sense whatsoever. Why would they do it?

I am not doubting you (or the OP) that it happened, but can you be 100% sure that it was the train that should have shown up at that time or could it have been the train beforehand running late?

No driver is going to do that without making an announcement - now if the PA was not working that's another issue and it's not acceptable.

LXFlyer · 23-10-2015 11:47AM

carrolls wrote: »

Good point.
No point in making any valid arguments here. The IE insiders have the place sown up. its like an ITGWU convention here.:)

Take a look at the strike thread and then come back and repeat that accusation at me.

Again, how would you resolve significant delays to the service without making changes?

All you seem capable of doing is throwing insults at me without answering the question I posed.

GM228 · 23-10-2015 11:49AM

10000maniacs wrote: »

That does not make any sense.
Biffo's scenario has happened to me too.
And any time it has happened to me there was no announcement of delays and the train was approximately on time.
You would only save 5 minutes by skipping Killiney and Shankill anyway so your figures don't add up .
You can keep thanking yourselves all you want to. It Does not impress me either or make your point any less obtuse.

A 5 minute delay can have knock-on effects and cause further delay, the whole point of skipping a stop is to make up time and reduce further delay down the line. And when it does happen a train is usually a lot more than 5 minutes late anyway.

GM228

GM228 · 23-10-2015 11:54AM

carrolls wrote: »

What's going on here is the drivers need an extra 5 or 6 minutes for a sandwich, coffee and a fag in Bray before the next journey.

What's the point in trying to argue when you have an attitude like that, drivers have hidden agendas, fail to stop whenever they feel like it to suit themselves, oh and they obviously have Boards sown up aswell-fair play to them!

GM228

Wild Garlic · 23-10-2015 12:34PM

If this skipping stations without notice lark is happening that often can someone please provide a specific example. I've already asked the OP for details of his recent experience and I'm still waiting. I don't really give a ****e one way or another but would rather deal with facts.

10000maniacs · 23-10-2015 12:44PM

Wild Garlic wrote: »

If this skipping stations without notice lark is happening that often can someone please provide a specific example. I've already asked the OP for details of his recent experience and I'm still waiting. I don't really give a ****e one way or another but would rather deal with facts.

Yeah its all such a lark. If I worked for Irish rail I would probably find it funny too. Those poor commuters.
Did he not give you the actual time in an early thread?
9:30 AM @ Shankill on route to Bray I think he mentioned and I can derive that it happened last Wednesday. Except that it didn't stop at Shankill. Try reading the whole thread. Its in post #26

Wild Garlic · 23-10-2015 12:55PM

10000maniacs wrote: »

Did he not give you the actual time in an early thread?
9:30 AM @ Shankill on route to Bray I think he mentioned and I can derive that it happened last Wednesday. Except that it didn't stop at Shankill. Try reading the whole thread. Its in post #26

f

I'll try and make it very simple for you.
I asked what train the op was on he said the 0930 to shankill. I then asked from where and I'm still waiting for a response. Now when he does manage to come back with specifics we might get somewhere. How's that for reading the whole thread, eh?

GM228 · 23-10-2015 12:58PM

10000maniacs wrote: »

Yeah its all such a lark. If I worked for Irish rail I would probably find it funny too. Those poor commuters.
Did he not give you the actual time in an early thread?
9:30 AM @ Shankill on route to Bray I think he mentioned and I can derive that it happened last Wednesday. Except that it didn't stop at Shankill. Try reading the whole thread. Its in post #26

No he didn't give the time of train.

Biffo The Bare wrote: »

The 9:30 to Shankill.. Or not to Shankill:rolleyes:

9.30 to Shankill, not @ Shankill which could be any number of trains! 9.30 from Howth to Shankill could be a totally different train than say 9.30 from Connolly to Shankill.

GM228

Biffo The Bare · 23-10-2015 01:28PM

Wild Garlic wrote: »

f

I'll try and make it very simple for you.
I asked what train the op was on he said the 0930 to shankill. I then asked from where and I'm still waiting for a response. Now when he does manage to come back with specifics we might get somewhere. How's that for reading the whole thread, eh?

I hopped on at Booterstown at about 8:45 on Wednesday. The train flew past Shankill at 9:30 without any PA or microphone announcement. This is the usual time for that train.
It happened the previous week on Tuesday too. No speaker announcement either. I don't get the train every day so I can't monitor the frequency of such an occurrence accurately. But I can safely say its at least 1 in 5 for this particular journey.

LXFlyer · 23-10-2015 01:57PM

Biffo The Bare wrote: »

I hopped on at Booterstown at about 8:45 on Wednesday. The train flew past Shankill at 9:30 without any PA or microphone announcement. This is the usual time for that train.
It happened the previous week on Tuesday too. No speaker announcement either. I don't get the train every day so I can't monitor the frequency of such an occurrence accurately. But I can safely say its at least 1 in 5 for this particular journey.

That makes no sense - the 08:42 from Booterstown (which is the only train at that time) should be at Shankill at 09:05 en route to Greystones?

How did it take so long to get to Shankill?

The next train to Bray isn't until 09:02 from Booterstown.

trellheim · 23-10-2015 01:58PM

What on earth is wrong with the driver walking down the platform to announce the skip stopping at the stop before the skip. This is the only way to ensure the message is passed given the somewhat soviet refusal to admit this is an issue in the posts above.

Or am I on the crazy pills again.

Wild Garlic · 23-10-2015 02:29PM

Biffo The Bare wrote: »

I hopped on at Booterstown at about 8:45 on Wednesday. The train flew past Shankill at 9:30 without any PA or microphone announcement. This is the usual time for that train.
It happened the previous week on Tuesday too. No speaker announcement either. I don't get the train every day so I can't monitor the frequency of such an occurrence accurately. But I can safely say its at least 1 in 5 for this particular journey.

Did you happen to change trains by any chance. 0645 Newry - Bray goes by Shankill around then

Wild Garlic · 23-10-2015 02:33PM

trellheim wrote: »

What on earth is wrong with the driver walking down the platform to announce the skip stopping at the stop before the skip. This is the only way to ensure the message is passed given the somewhat soviet refusal to admit this is an issue in the posts above.

Or am I on the crazy pills again.

I agree I see nothing wrong with that if it is actually happening. As I said previously though I like facts and have yet to see any on this thread.

Biffo The Bare · 23-10-2015 02:34PM

lxflyer wrote: »

That makes no sense - the 08:42 from Booterstown (which is the only train at that time) should be at Shankill at 09:05 en route to Greystones?

How did it take so long to get to Shankill?

The next train to Bray isn't until 09:02 from Booterstown.

Sorry, 8:45 was the time I leave the apartment. The train leaves around 9:00

10000maniacs · 23-10-2015 02:43PM

Biffo The Bare wrote: »

Sorry, 8:45 was the time I leave the apartment. The train leaves around 9:00

Don't be sorry. the scenario has happed to me too on many occasions and to other people who have posted here too.
It does happen. it shouldn't happen. Its a farcical way to run a business.
It will be just like those guys to say because you initially mentioned the wrong time, it invalidates your argument. Forum job done. Put away the IPhone . Grab that strike placard again. Oh Strike over. Back to the old lever trusting again for another few hours. Lets hope a truck hits one of those bridges again.

Wild Garlic · 23-10-2015 02:48PM

10000maniacs wrote: »

Don't be sorry. the scenario has happed to me too on many occasions and to other people who have posted here too.
It does happen. it shouldn't happen. Its a farcical way to run a business.

Agreed if that is actually happening. But unless you provide a specific service you were on which they s happened nobody can take it seriously. I'm sorry if I'm sounding like a broken record here, but .......FACTS please!

Wild Garlic · 23-10-2015 02:50PM

Biffo The Bare wrote: »

Sorry, 8:45 was the time I leave the apartment. The train leaves around 9:00

Well if that's the best info you can provide I call BS.

10000maniacs · 23-10-2015 02:50PM

Wild Garlic wrote: »

Agreed if that is actually happening. But unless you provide a specific service you were on which they s happened nobody can take it seriously. I'm sorry if I'm sounding like a broken record here, but .......FACTS please!

There we go.:D
He gave you the facts. Booterstown Approx 9:00 Shankill Approx 9:30

tabbey · 23-10-2015 02:52PM

To my limited knowledge , DART trains running semi-fast to save time, is a very rare event.
However, if it happens at all it is potentially serious for many passengers expecting to alight at stations involved.
Assuming a change of schedule is announced;
1. Some people have headphones on and fail to hear announcements, this may be their own fault.
2. Some people are deaf, this is not their fault.
3. Public address speakers may work in some cars, but not in others, possibly throughout the train.

A southbound train approaching Killiney is running on speed restricted track, and will save very little time by omitting the stop. Shankill may need a few seconds longer, but in both cases, smart dwell times, would make at most, a two minute difference at each station, making a gross saving of four minutes. Given the extended dwell times and casual running that has become characteristic of recent years, slowing down Rosslare and outer suburban services, the operators do not appear too concerned by delays on a regular basis.
To ensure every passenger was aware that the schedule was being overruled, it would be necessary for the driver to walk the length of the train at Dalkey, prior to skipping Killiney and Shankill. This would probably take longer than four minutes, and so defeat the purpose. Therefore, following the timetabled stopping pattern is the only reasonable practice in these circumstances.

To deliberately fail to stop at advertised stations in the circumstances described by the OP, is cavalier and unacceptable, whether it occurred once or often.

carrolls · 23-10-2015 02:59PM

10000maniacs wrote: »

Don't be sorry. the scenario has happed to me too on many occasions and to other people who have posted here too.
It does happen. it shouldn't happen. Its a farcical way to run a business.
It will be just like those guys to say because you initially mentioned the wrong time, it invalidates your argument. Forum job done. Put away the IPhone . Grab that strike placard again. Oh Strike over. Back to the old lever trusting again for another few hours. Lets hope a truck hits one of those bridges again.

Steady on. Not all drivers are like that.

LXFlyer · 23-10-2015 03:18PM

10000maniacs wrote: »

Don't be sorry. the scenario has happed to me too on many occasions and to other people who have posted here too.
It does happen. it shouldn't happen. Its a farcical way to run a business.
It will be just like those guys to say because you initially mentioned the wrong time, it invalidates your argument. Forum job done. Put away the IPhone . Grab that strike placard again. Oh Strike over. Back to the old lever trusting again for another few hours. Lets hope a truck hits one of those bridges again.

Hang on - if you look back I have already said that I didn't doubt that it actually happened the OP.

All I am trying to do is find out exactly what happened - they don't just suddenly decide to skip stations without a good reason, which is usually that the train is running significantly late.

LXFlyer · 23-10-2015 03:27PM

Biffo The Bare wrote: »

Sorry, 8:45 was the time I leave the apartment. The train leaves around 9:00

That makes more sense.

But if it was passing Shankill at 09:30 it would have been at least 10 minutes late, which would suggest to me why this happened.

In this particular instance, if you look at the timetable, you'll see that there is another DART scheduled 4 minutes directly behind it (and another 5 minutes behind that) both serving all stations as well (it's one of the few times that the DART is that frequent). Thus there would have been a blockage and a knock-on effect of delays, particularly as the third DART was going to Greystones along the single track. The Greystones service is particularly time sensitive because of the single track.

Hence if the first DART was late, the second one would be right behind it, hence switching passengers for the other stations wouldn't be that big an issue as they would have had a 2-3 minute wait.

The real problem is that the PA doesn't appear to have been working in the first DART and people didn't hear the announcement.

GM228 · 23-10-2015 04:02PM

Biffo The Bare wrote: »

Sorry, 8:45 was the time I leave the apartment. The train leaves around 9:00

That would be the 08.19 Howth to Bray service which IE have confirmed served ALL stations as did all other DART services on Wednesday morning.

GM228

LXFlyer · 23-10-2015 04:08PM

GM228 wrote: »

That would be the 08.19 Howth to Bray service which IE have confirmed served ALL stations as did all other DART services on Wednesday morning.

GM228

Look let's not start getting into it did or it didn't - I doubt the OP is lying about it.

I think having got the time more or less right we knows it's one of those DARTs and my analysis above would explain why.

GM228 · 23-10-2015 04:12PM

lxflyer wrote: »

Look let's not start getting into it did or it didn't - I doubt the OP is lying about it.

I think having got the time more or less right we knows it's one of those DARTs and my analysis above would explain why.

I think your missing the point-IE state that no DARTs bypassed Shankill that morning, so who is incorrect?

To be fair anytime a DART has bypassed a station IE will always say so and why.

My suggestion to Biffo would be to report this directly to IE who will then investigate it by looking at CCTV, train data recorders etc and then perhaps Biffo would be kind enough to share the outcome with us?

GM228

LXFlyer · 23-10-2015 04:29PM

GM228 wrote: »

I think your missing the point-IE state that no DARTs bypassed Shankill that morning, so who is incorrect?

To be fair anytime a DART has bypassed a station IE will always say so and why.

My suggestion to Biffo would be to report this directly to IE who will then investigate it by looking at CCTV, train data recorders etc and then perhaps Biffo would be kind enough to share the outcome with us?

GM228

The OP is hardly going to make it up. Does it really matter which exact day this happened?

What I'd question is the assertion that it happens all the time.

I'm not particularly bothered by the rest of the flannel in this thread.

Looking at the timetable should be sufficient to explain why it might happen around that time as I outlined above.

I don't see the need to go into that level of checking (contacting IE to check) to be frank - it's actually disturbing to be frank that you would go to those lengths to effectively win an Internet discussion.

There are better ways of spending your time.

GM228 · 23-10-2015 04:38PM

lxflyer wrote: »

The OP is hardly going to make it up.

What I'd question is the assertion that it happens all the time.

I'm not particularly bothered by the rest of the flannel in this thread.

Looking at the timetable should be sufficient to explain why it might happen around that time.

I don't see the need to go into that level of checking (contacting IE to check) to be frank - it's actually disturbing to be frank that you would go to those lengths to effectively win an Internet discussion.

There are better ways of spending your time.

Hang on I'm not trying to win any internet arguement, read through all my postings and you will see I have no argument over if it happened or not, like yourself I have only questioned the frequency of such occurances, (or PA issues/lack of driver info), and have also said why they can happen and how IE are allowed to do it, never once have I said it didn't happen or suggest Biffo was a liar, and I have still not said it didn't happen, I just highlighted IE says it didn't happen.

The problem is a poster says it did, IE said it didn't and with so much suggestions of drivers deliberately avoiding stops etc I feel that Biffo should report it and it be looked into and that is why I have suggested it be reported in case that was the case and I'm genuinely interested in what the outcome of it would be as I use the DART regularly and would be concerned by that.

If it was a case that a driver deliberately skipped a stop and didn't report it that's a very serious issue which needs to be brought to IEs attention.

I'm sure you will agree with me.

GM228

LXFlyer · 23-10-2015 04:54PM

GM228 wrote: »

Hang on I'm not trying to win any internet arguement, read through all my postings and you will see I have no argument over if it happened or not, like yourself I have only questioned the frequency of such occurances, (or PA issues/lack of driver info), and have also said why they can happen and how IE are allowed to do it, never once have I said it didn't happen or suggest Biffo was a liar, and I have still not said it didn't happen, I just highlighted IE says it didn't happen.

The problem is a poster says it did, IE said it didn't and with so much suggestions of drivers deliberately avoiding stops etc I feel that Biffo should report it and it be looked into and that is why I have suggested it be reported in case that was the case and I'm genuinely interested in what the outcome of it would be as I use the DART regularly and would be concerned by that.

If it was a case that a driver deliberately skipped a stop and didn't report it that's a very serious issue which needs to be brought to IEs attention.

I'm sure you will agree with me.

GM228

Well you clearly did get in contact with IE to check if you're saying IE said none bypassed Shankill - that's what I am saying is a tad disturbing. How else would you know?

There's a limit to what I would consider normal behaviour.

All Stations To Bray on the DART?

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