Billy Walsh quits ** SEE MOD WARNING #643 BEFORE POSTING

Joe_ Public · 23-10-2015 03:04PM

walshb wrote: »

Who cares? Plenty of success since his departure.

Gary is head of the Institute of sport, doing like he's always done, playing a key role in Irish sport and while keeping a very low profile, which is the way he likes to do it. I care very much that he is still contributing immensely to the welfare of sport here, including boxing and all Olympic sports.

Strazdas · 23-10-2015 03:07PM

Joe_ Public wrote: »

One major weakness of that piece, Irish boxing was nowhere before Billy took over? Well Billy only took over after the Olympics where they'd won 3 medals. I'd give most of the credit for the resurrection pre-Beijing to Gary Keegan, he put the whole program together.

Have a read at how the IABA treated Gary Keegan :

http://www.independent.ie/sport/other-sports/vincent-hogan-boxing-still-dancing-to-strange-olympic-tune-30832550.html

They made sure he wasn't even accredited at the Olympics in Beijing and the boxers had to visit him daily at his apartment instead.

Joe_ Public · 23-10-2015 03:07PM

price690 wrote: »

One thing I do find a little bit annoying in the midst of all of this, its the journalism.

So many outspoken journalists acting like they give a sh*te. Its poor quality stuff pretty much revolving around "we won loads of medals at the olympics, therefore Billy walsh is great".

The argument put to the IABA (who do need dragging into the 21st century) is a very one dimensional one. If I see another journalist liken it to Joe Schmidt not being able to select his team (I mean really, surely they can do better than stealing each others soundbites), i'll go mad.

I'm very much in the Billy Walsh camp on this one, but id love the journalists to delve into this area of team selection. Maybe uncover a few instances of disagreement between IABA and Walsh. From the outside looking in, our top fighters always make the major championships by virtue of the national seniors. You cannot really say that there are fighters hard done by in terms of not making these squads, they pick themselves for the most part.

Do Billy/IABA want to bring fighters who are not national champions to the Euros/Worlds? You needed to qualify for the worlds this year so again, committee ratification means damn all.

In terms of fighters being hard done by, this can only be done by judging at a national level in the national elite seniors.

There are so many red herrings out there, and I don't think alot of the news reports and journalist articles we see fully understand how the sport works or the real issue. Its very one dimensional 2+2=4, billy wins medals and hes gone etc... outrage etc...

In order to IABA to be fully held to account in the future we need proper transparency but also a better quality of journalist in this area. Boxing is always paid lip service in the media in this country, patted on the head for being the most successful irish sport, but how many dedicated writers have we got?

It would be great to see some very specific questions put to the IABA, to cut through their bluster and bull because I have a feeling that they know the general media have zero idea of the real issues apart from a successful coach walking.

The comment pieces are done to death tbh. What it needs is a good investigative person to dig under all the spin and bullsh!t and acquire the documentation that tells us exactly what was going on. Dont seem to be a lot of those Veronia Guerin types around these days unfortunately, probably too mucn like hard work.

walshb · 23-10-2015 03:08PM

Strazdas wrote: »

Excellent article on this very point here :

http://www.businesspost.ie/backwards-thinking-cost-ireland-billy-walsh/

The IABA in their utter mediocrity and incompetence were incapable of seeing the true brilliance of Billy Walsh as a coach and leader.

That article was bland at best.

price690 · 23-10-2015 03:11PM

walshb wrote: »

That article was bland at best.

I agree, a rugby writer expressing his faux outrage at Irish Boxing circles.

Far too many opinion pieces about this, they need to start finding some facts.

As another poster stated, its probably too much work.

efb · 23-10-2015 03:13PM

Should the Dept of Transport and Sport conduct an investigation into the IABA, I think one is needed

walshb · 23-10-2015 03:14PM

Joe_ Public wrote: »

Gary is head of the Institute of sport, doing like he's always done, playing a key role in Irish sport and while keeping a very low profile, which is the way he likes to do it. I care very much that he is still contributing immensely to the welfare of sport here, including boxing and all Olympic sports.

Well you are one. It seems he is doing just fine, similar to our boxers doing just fine since his departure. Everyone's a winner.

Dodge · 23-10-2015 03:15PM

price690 wrote: »

One thing I do find a little bit annoying in the midst of all of this, its the journalism.

So many outspoken journalists acting like they give a sh*te. Its poor quality stuff pretty much revolving around "we won loads of medals at the olympics, therefore Billy walsh is great".

The argument put to the IABA (who do need dragging into the 21st century) is a very one dimensional one. If I see another journalist liken it to Joe Schmidt not being able to select his team (I mean really, surely they can do better than stealing each others soundbites), i'll go mad.

I'm very much in the Billy Walsh camp on this one, but id love the journalists to delve into this area of team selection. Maybe uncover a few instances of disagreement between IABA and Walsh. From the outside looking in, our top fighters always make the major championships by virtue of the national seniors. You cannot really say that there are fighters hard done by in terms of not making these squads, they pick themselves for the most part.

Do Billy/IABA want to bring fighters who are not national champions to the Euros/Worlds? You needed to qualify for the worlds this year so again, committee ratification means damn all.

In terms of fighters being hard done by, this can only be done by judging at a national level in the national elite seniors.

There are so many red herrings out there, and I don't think alot of the news reports and journalist articles we see fully understand how the sport works or the real issue. Its very one dimensional 2+2=4, billy wins medals and hes gone etc... outrage etc...

In order to IABA to be fully held to account in the future we need proper transparency but also a better quality of journalist in this area. Boxing is always paid lip service in the media in this country, patted on the head for being the most successful irish sport, but how many dedicated writers have we got?

It would be great to see some very specific questions put to the IABA, to cut through their bluster and bull because I have a feeling that they know the general media have zero idea of the real issues apart from a successful coach walking.

I'm quoting this in case it gets lost in all the bickering. Excellent post

marienbad · 23-10-2015 03:18PM

walshb wrote: »

Who cares? Plenty of success since his departure.

at last your true colours showing .

Strazdas · 23-10-2015 03:19PM

walshb wrote: »

That article was bland at best.

He does make the valid point that the IABA are still running boxing as if this was still the 1990s and very much still the amateur era.

International sport has moved on incredibly in the last ten or fifteen years in terms of professionalism and high performance. The thought that high quality coaches are being held back by petty and incompetent bureaucrats even in 2015 is very surprising.

price690 · 23-10-2015 03:19PM

walshb wrote: »

Well you are one. It seems he is doing just fine, similar to our boxers doing just fine since his departure. Everyone's a winner.

WalshB can I just ask you, did you read the article posted above, the independent article relating to Gary Keegan?

if so, how does it sit with you?

How do you feel about Joe Hennigan being team manager for instance? The only sport in the country (that has a HP system in place) that does this kind of thing. When you see Paul McGinley lead the golfers for instance this summer, the boxers have that kind of craic.

Sure its their right to exercise that, but do you not see that as a blatant attempt to hold onto some kind of power? even in such trivial ceremonial affairs?

Its so bloody small time.

walshb · 23-10-2015 03:23PM

The Keegan affair for me as a non member of all the ins and outs of it seem unfair to Keegan. Underhanded dealings me suspects.

walshb · 23-10-2015 03:24PM

marienbad wrote: »

at last your true colours showing .

Apologies that I asked a simple question.

marienbad · 23-10-2015 03:28PM

walshb wrote: »

Apologies that I asked a simple question.

Meaningless reply, ( as many of your answers are ) just designed to lead to more muddying of the waters .

Success has come despite the IABA not because of them .

Strazdas · 23-10-2015 03:29PM

efb wrote: »

Should the Dept of Transport and Sport conduct an investigation into the IABA, I think one is needed

The latest is that the IABA are being summoned to appear before an Oireacthtas committee to explain themselves :

http://www.newstalk.com/Committee-to-question-IABA-over-Billy-Walsh-resignation

This should be interesting. It's one thing waffling on in a radio interview and batting away any criticism but this will be be intense interrogation in a televised setting where detailed and expansive answers to the questions will be required.

price690 · 23-10-2015 03:40PM

Strazdas wrote: »

The latest is that the IABA are being summoned to appear before an Oireacthtas committee to explain themselves :

http://www.newstalk.com/Committee-to-question-IABA-over-Billy-Walsh-resignation

This should be interesting. It's one thing waffling on in a radio interview and batting away any criticism but this will be be intense interrogation in a televised setting where detailed and expansive answers to the questions will be required.

Waffling has become the norm at Oireachtas committee hearings.

My guess is that IABA officials will be right at home there, i'd imagine those doing the questioning will be ill informed aswell about what to ask.

Isn't it usually carried out by opposition TD's aswell? So basically it would be Willie O'Dea questioning Fergal Carruth

Let the filleting begin :rolleyes:

Power21stC · 23-10-2015 04:10PM

I am a Friend of Billy Walsh and the duress he has went through over the last few months has been terrible. I have seen him in action with these boxers and it is obvious from their body language with billy that he is more than a coach to these guys. He is like a father figure to them particularly when being a long time from home. He makes sure all their needs a met from diet to security not withstanding their physical fitness. He makes no lies that he will only bring the best boxers with him. That's whats high performance is about. Their is a lot of pressure on him from different parts IABA and others around the Country to get their man selected. The problem is politics and red tape. typical Ireland. At long last we have a team of respected medal winning professionals and the politics messes it up again. Only in Ireland.Billy had to look for approval for anything he wanted. how frustrating is that. The team no matter who is appointed will miss him in the corner with them believe me. He will have cart Blanch to do it his way in the states. We in Screen Co Wexford the place were Billy was reared wish him every future success in his new role. Katie Taylor watch out

Strazdas · 23-10-2015 04:10PM

price690 wrote: »

Waffling has become the norm at Oireachtas committee hearings.

My guess is that IABA officials will be right at home there, i'd imagine those doing the questioning will be ill informed aswell about what to ask.

Isn't it usually carried out by opposition TD's aswell? So basically it would be Willie O'Dea questioning Fergal Carruth

Let the filleting begin :rolleyes:

Well Sport Ireland will also be appearing in front of the Oireachtas committee, so it's quite likely we're going to hear a clash of evidence next Wednesday.

price690 · 23-10-2015 04:18PM

Power21stC wrote: »

I am a Friend of Billy Walsh and the duress he has went through over the last few months has been terrible. I have seen him in action with these boxers and it is obvious from their body language with billy that he is more than a coach to these guys. He is like a father figure to them particularly when being a long time from home. He makes sure all their needs a met from diet to security not withstanding their physical fitness. He makes no lies that he will only bring the best boxers with him. That's whats high performance is about. Their is a lot of pressure on him from different parts IABA and others around the Country to get their man selected. The problem is politics and red tape. typical Ireland. At long last we have a team of respected medal winning professionals and the politics messes it up again. Only in Ireland.Billy had to look for approval for anything he wanted. how frustrating is that. The team no matter who is appointed will miss him in the corner with them believe me. He will have cart Blanch to do it his way in the states. We in Screen Co Wexford the place were Billy was reared wish him every future success in his new role. Katie Taylor watch out

In what instances was Billy unable to take his own preferred fighter to major championships? Can you specify when a fighter went to a major championships against Billy's wishes?

price690 · 23-10-2015 04:19PM

Strazdas wrote: »

Well Sport Ireland will also be appearing in front of the Oireachtas committee, so it's quite likely we're going to hear a clash of evidence next Wednesday.

What is stopping Sport Ireland taking control of the HP unit?

In the UK the HP unit divorced itself from the ABA's and its now a stand alone unit.

What are the road blocks to this happening? What can the IABA realistically do if the ISC decide to take it out of their hands?

Tiriel · 23-10-2015 04:35PM

marienbad wrote: »

Meaningless reply, ( as many of your answers are ) just designed to lead to more muddying of the waters .

Success has come despite the IABA not because of them .

marienbad wrote: »

at last your true colours showing .

marienbad - if you have an issue with a poster or their posts, please refrain from posting comments like those above. Disagree with a poster and engage in discussion, but do not attack a poster. Send a PM to a Moderator or report a post if you feel it is in breach of the forum charter.

Strazdas · 23-10-2015 06:02PM

price690 wrote: »

What is stopping Sport Ireland taking control of the HP unit?

In the UK the HP unit divorced itself from the ABA's and its now a stand alone unit.

What are the road blocks to this happening? What can the IABA realistically do if the ISC decide to take it out of their hands?

Good question. That would surely solve all of this immediately.

Strazdas · 23-10-2015 06:06PM

Listening back to the IABA interviews this morning, they talk about an agreement they reached with Billy Walsh in September and seem to suggest he reneged on his deal with them with his resignation this week.

But they make no mention of the deal they (apparently) reached with him on August 22 or explain how or why they did a dramatic u-turn on this two days later.

walshb · 23-10-2015 07:05PM

Relating to Billy having to get approval for anything he wanted. Ok, sounds like a bit of an exaggeration. But let's assume he had to ask for approval for a lot. So what? This red tape and rule based world is one we have lived in for a long time now. Without actual concrete examples it's just not worth considering. And no, team selection is not an example. This policy has been in place long before Billy became a figure of importance. Billy, as far as I know has given no examples. Apart from the interview permission I am not aware of any specific examples.

Deaf student · 23-10-2015 08:00PM

I'm not a boxing fan just a interested in most sports.

IABA is a total disgrace in respect of Billy Walsh as it's clear they didn't want him by dragging the negotiations for eight months or so. It sounded like sour grapes on their part. Other poster who posted IABA's spats over the last four years or more as it's clear from looking at their history of spats, they have a problem with themselves.

Their problem with Billy was well aired since eight months ago as they did nothing to resolve it by dragging on further until it's too late.

Interesting piece with English boxing HP as they recognised the problem same as ours. They made it stand alone from all kind of interference so the HP coach have their say.

For the sake of analogy, Carling called English rugby board directors ' 57 old farts' as an impediment to progress in rugby, same could be applied to IABA.

walshb · 23-10-2015 08:02PM

Of all the posts about this the one that probaby is closest to the truth is others jealousy and resentment of Billy.

Joe_ Public · 23-10-2015 08:10PM

walshb wrote: »

Relating to Billy having to get approval for anything he wanted. Ok, sounds like a bit of an exaggeration. But let's assume he had to ask for approval for a lot. So what? This red tape and rule based world is one we have lived in for a long time now. Without actual concrete examples it's just not worth considering. And no, team selection is not an example. This policy has been in place long before Billy became a figure of importance. Billy, as far as I know has given no examples. Apart from the interview permission I am not aware of any specific examples.

There is an important point to be made about the crazy situation of Billy having to seek approval to speak to the media, beyond even how stupid and petty it seems. As the IABA or HP unit don't have a PRO in place, how in god's name are journalists, or the few that are interested, going to keep in touch with information other than by ringing Billy which I' m sure they do from time to time. So trivial bits of information, like team selections or dates of fights or whatever, instead of being dealt with by a dedicated PRO, have to be funneled through Billy which is just a waste of his time and resources. It's just stupid and makes absolutely no sense.

Joe_ Public · 23-10-2015 08:26PM

price690 wrote: »

What is stopping Sport Ireland taking control of the HP unit?

In the UK the HP unit divorced itself from the ABA's and its now a stand alone unit.

What are the road blocks to this happening? What can the IABA realistically do if the ISC decide to take it out of their hands?

I'm not certain there are too many roadblocks other than the politics of it. Boxing is going to be relocated in the National Campus sometime, and I don't see anything against Sport Ireland just setting up a HP Unit there and inviting boxers to join it, even if the IABA opposes it. Maybe somebody has more info on the process.

Been reading a bit about the UK scene - cycling is also a great example - but seems UK Sport doesn't tolerate much nonsense from sporting federations. In 2013 there was a bit of bother within the national federations and this was the response from the head of UK Sport. No messing here:

UK Sport chief executive Liz Nicholl said on the BBC Sport website: "UK Sport has, for some time, been closely monitoring the relationship between BABA and the other home country boxing associations.

"The priority must be to ensure that British boxers preparing for Rio are backed with world-class support.

"If these issues are not addressed by 10 June, UK Sport will redirect investment from BABA and instead establish a special purpose vehicle through which funding of the Boxing World Class Performance Programme will flow, in order to protect our elite athletes."

Strazdas · 23-10-2015 09:17PM

Ger Gilroy will be discussing all this on the weekly sports show on UTV Ireland at 10.30pm.

efb · 23-10-2015 09:58PM

Revealed! The REAL IABA Statement!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VjG2dI_T9dU

Billy Walsh quits ** SEE MOD WARNING #643 BEFORE POSTING

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