Milk Price- Please read Mod note in post #1

jaymla627 · 23-10-2015 08:24AM

whelan2 wrote: »

yes tied in for the 5 years:mad::mad:, I asked the question about it at the very end, you can give 2 years notice to leave at the end of year 3. so basically the 5 years. A few lads I was talking to after are looking in to the legal end of things.

There was a good turn out considering the late notice, alot of very annoyed farmers. Think a few points came across and tbh Jim Bergin came across as very arrogant. The first thing he said was I will give you the reasons why I called for a 1cpl drop. So the board had nothing to do with the drop iykwim it was a 1 man decision. The main reason was 2015 profits have to be kept in line with 2014. 1 farmer made the point that we want to keep our profits in line with 2014 also.
He dazzled us with graph after graph. Alot of lads have borrowed to get shared up . Asked any idea on milk price for the next 3 months there was no commitment . Kept saying q1 2016 will be difficult, point was made we have to get through the end of 2015 before that. When other matters were raised the top table would say we are here to discuss milk price-wouldnt even discuss liquid milk which is milk price- The point someone brought up was they should have topped the september milk up by 2cpl from co-op funds and no drop. I also asked was there much money left in the kitty, cant remember the exact amount but there is still a good bit there. Drop in milk price has nothing to do with Bellview its all down to the markets. Point was made should they not be looking at other markets like they told us 4/5 years ago. They also said that 126 m litres over plan had been sent in this year and they had to find a home for this. I said we were told ye supply as much milk as ye can there are loads of markets out there....... if they had any proper contact with the farmers on the ground they would have had an idea of who was planning on producing what. Any way batten the hatches for the next 6 months

Was it brought up how much product their storing, if milk is going to go nuclear in the spring would it not be a smart move on their own part to move whatevers on the books into intervention and just take the hit and get it off the balance sheet.
Are we going to be faced with a double whammy in the spring where their's more then likely going to be another surge in milk production combined with mass amounts of backed - up product in storage
Also has belview got accredited to produce baby formula yet remember Talbot raving about when belview gets accredited glanbia was on the pigs back

Dawggone · 23-10-2015 08:30AM

kowtow wrote: »

Because the purchase option strike price, what farmers will have to pay for the remaining 40%, is a function of profits over these years - see my post above.

Not only is less paid now for milk, but when the buyout comes you get to buy each cent of extra profit back several times over.

They certainly knew what they were doing when they put the MSA in place.

Good God!
Pure genius. You got to hand it to them! Excellent business.

whelan2 · 23-10-2015 08:41AM

jaymla627 wrote: »

Was it brought up how much product their storing, if milk is going to go nuclear in the spring would it not be a smart move on their own part to move whatevers on the books into intervention and just take the hit and get it off the balance sheet.
Are we going to be faced with a double whammy in the spring where their's more then likely going to be another surge in milk production combined with mass amounts of backed - up product in storage
Also has belview got accredited to produce baby formula yet remember Talbot raving about when belview gets accredited glanbia was on the pigs back

will reply fully later belview is in the commisoning stage. Clongowes saga was brought up and we were told its not being discussed, think this added fuel to the fire tbh. Dont pass any remarks of gdt as all product is not being put up for auction..... got to go have to face paint the kids

freedominacup · 23-10-2015 08:52AM

kowtow wrote: »

Because the purchase option strike price, what farmers will have to pay for the remaining 40%, is a function of profits over these years - see my post above.

Not only is less paid now for milk, but when the buyout comes you get to buy each cent of extra profit back several times over.

They certainly knew what they were doing when they put the MSA in place.

Honestly kt this sort of naivety from you is astounding. That is only part of the play. First off we're going to have to bail out giil at a time when glanbia plc share price is a lot lower than it is now. 2015 profits won't come into it.

There'll be a profit warning of sorts, the plc board will start sabre rattling about windups, closures of businesses etc. Giil will have to be put back on a firm financial footing, cash injection required, plc won't be able to invest because stock market rules blah blah blah whatever. We'll have "no option"but to take what we're given for another ten percent of the plc.

Then a few years after that we'll get to pay the multiples of profit in the new and improved giil, probably shorn of whatever divisions which are actually generating the real returns. Glanbia plc will helpfully take these off our hands in order to reduce the cash pile we have to come up with which will equate more or less to another ten percent of plc shares or half our remaining holding. They've done all of this before, they have it down to a tee.

whelan2 · 23-10-2015 09:10AM

Bergin kept coming back with the line Glanbia will be the top payer for milk for 2015 when questioned on current price. Another lad said we'd be better off drying cows and aborting stock. Anyone with no liquid milk contract needs to think long and hard before sending in another litre of milk

mahoney_j · 23-10-2015 09:25AM

darragh_haven wrote: »

I don't understand why people make a big song and dance about bellviews shutting/shut down. Glanbia have to have capacity to process at peak. Therefore will shut down when there isn't a requirement/volume . It's all part of seasonal supply. Itll It'll happen every year.
Would a farmer continue to turn on the milking parlour twice a day if the cows were dried off?

Every processor needs a way of processing milk at peak darragh ,having to shut down a plant for chunks of a year surely dosnt make sense ..seasonal supply we were told was what the coops wanted etc etc ye supply the milk well process it and market it .bellview I believe (open to correction )can only process milk to smp and wmp .thats the problem.other processors can divert milk to a wider range of products which can give a better return .

whelan2 · 23-10-2015 09:30AM

Glanbia council member came up to me afterwards and asked was I thinking of leaving Glanbia, my reply was "why stay?"

WheatenBriar · 23-10-2015 10:06AM

So basically Bergin said,openly admitted, we have to keep the profits as high as last year and fcuk the farmers?

Disgraceful

Co op me arse

Greengrass1 · 23-10-2015 10:22AM

Where was this meeting whelan?

whelan2 · 23-10-2015 10:24AM

Greengrass1 wrote: »

Where was this meeting whelan?

navan

kowtow · 23-10-2015 10:34AM

freedominacup wrote: »

Honestly kt this sort of naivety from you is astounding. That is only part of the play.

I'm sorry... must have allowed objectivity to cloud my speculation.

If your speculation is well founded, which I don't doubt, then the farmers side (co-op) should make urgent moves to sell back 20% of the current 60% of GIIL to Glanbia on more suitable (better advised) terms. Put bluntly they need the cash to support their loss making farmers.

But most of all the co-op should play no part in encouraging or enforcing an MSA, in fact there is no reason why the Glanbia co-op (which is supposed to serve only the farmers interests) shouldn't actively work to extract members from the present MSA by funding legal advice (for example).

As I have said time and time again the function of a co-operative is to bring the producers milk to the buyer who will pay most for it on the day - the co-op is an agent. It has no business binding it's members into long term risks, particularly when (as here) such a course includes the spancil of an abusive Milk Supply Agreement.

Stop complaining about the price, ditch the MSA en masse. If everybody did that you'd still be getting the "loyalty bonus" back because it's already your own money!

jack o shea · 23-10-2015 10:47AM

why are lads so worried about breaking the MSA? Do you think a squad car is going to pull up outside the milking parlour some morning and cart lads off tho the joy ffs?

WheatenBriar · 23-10-2015 11:10AM

jack o shea wrote: »

why are lads so worried about breaking the MSA? Do you think a squad car is going to pull up outside the milking parlour some morning and cart lads off tho the joy ffs?

They aren't really,theres been plenty of legal advice on it

If I could draw an analogy,support for glanbia runs the risk that Fianna Fail did around 2010
Supporters don't want to leave but when their backs are against the wall with insult after insult, they will
Glanbia probably has a window of 2016 to turn that around,they'd had better cop the fcek on and at the very least reign in Bergins arrogance

kowtow · 23-10-2015 11:10AM

jack o shea wrote: »

why are lads so worried about breaking the MSA? Do you think a squad car is going to pull up outside the milking parlour some morning and cart lads off tho the joy ffs?

I think the problem is that all the co-ops have recently agreed (for our own convenience, protection, and safety presumably) to enforce each others MSA by not taking on new suppliers if they haven't been released by the old owner, sorry, co-op.

Milked out · 23-10-2015 11:11AM

Essentially glanbia is a plc not a coop so profit of the plc is now no 1 not that of its suppliers as it's the plc's shareholders interests regardless of being a farmer or not is key. Hence the reason 15 profits have to match 14 for the plc. Unless the plc can pull in more elsewhere to cover the difference it won't and may not anyway support the coop.
I'd suggest having a plc and coop co existing is not a good mix as they would be pulling against each other. Initially farmers may benefit from shareholdings etc and value increasing but as time moves on the plc will look to remove itself from the low margin processing end of business up the line to higher margin side of business. I think the sheriff mentioned kerry possibly looking to remove itself from that end.
Perhaps a merger of processors isn't what's needed but a merger of coops with just farmers interests at its core. I dunno would it work and this is all talk, and uneducated talk at that from myself but that's the way it's going. Unless the coop cam keep going farmer owned ala carbery there will always be a conflict of interest

wats the craic · 23-10-2015 11:17AM

thats bergin for ya to a tee a total **** of a man , i remember the meetings with him about wexford and gil merger or take over . his arrogant behaviour was un beliviable i guess a **** like him will never change . well if that meeting shows they dont care about farmers and only care bout the plc share holders and profits . farmers must stand together call glanbia bluff about msa and threaten to leave get legal advice on the matter . i was told by a top barrister that gil msa would not stand up in eu law . its time for farmers to act and not let these people walk all over you . farmers need to make a profit also and if gil suppliers revolted against glanbia wat they going to do if threaten to leave . they cant bring 4500 suppliers to court for god sake people act now they are plenty of coop in country would be glad to see the back of glanbia and thier bully boy tactics

WheatenBriar · 23-10-2015 11:18AM

kowtow wrote: »

I think the problem is that all the co-ops have recently agreed (for our own convenience, protection, and safety presumably) to enforce each others MSA by not taking on new suppliers if they haven't been released by the old owner, sorry, co-op.

Kowtow, that may be ICOS policy,but anti competitive behaviour is actually illegal, so not an issue tbh

RightTurnClyde · 23-10-2015 11:21AM

WheatenBriar wrote: »

Kowtow, that may be ICOS policy,but anti competitive behaviour is actually illegal, so not an issue tbh

Easier said than done, you can't exactly walk into a new coop and tell them that they're taking your milk, weather they like it or not. It wouldn't be a good start with a new coop to threaten them with anti competition law.

jack o shea · 23-10-2015 11:23AM

God id love it if everyone left glanbia and they went under.

WheatenBriar · 23-10-2015 11:35AM

jack o shea wrote: »

God id love it if everyone left glanbia and they went under.

Lol,I would *not* wish that
All I actually want from them is some cop on

WheatenBriar · 23-10-2015 11:39AM

RightTurnClyde wrote: »

Easier said than done, you can't exactly walk into a new coop and tell them that they're taking your milk, weather they like it or not. It wouldn't be a good start with a new coop to threaten them with anti competition law.

Aye but some want new suppliers and its ICOS,probably prompted by large players saying no
Its actually farcical because a judge would ask why was it ok last week and not this week
It's a textbook arogant flouting of the law in my opinion

alps · 23-10-2015 11:39AM

jack o shea wrote: »

why are lads so worried about breaking the MSA? Do you think a squad car is going to pull up outside the milking parlour some morning and cart lads off tho the joy ffs?

Unfortunately Jack, it's not that simple now. The possibility of doing that has been negated by ICOS getting the Coops to sign up to the recent protocol, which leaves you with little opportunity to supply some other processor other than Strathroy (of course an option for a limited few)
But for the main body of glanbia suppliers, the route to getting out of the agreement probably lies in 1 of 2 possibilities...
Change your business structure from sole trader to partnership or to company or vis a versa. This I would suggest would change your trading entity as it does with revenue. I know some of the processors have a different MSA for each of the trading entities and have got suppliers to sign a new one when they have changed their business structure.

The second route is to take an action against ICOS for what is certainly an incorrect protocol of giving a third party effect over the contract between 2 other entities.That is where a coop must refuse to take your milk if you are in a contract with another coop.

Unfortunately the route to doing this is difficult. If you go a legal route, you will be referred back to coop rules which in most cases state that a disagreement between a supplier and coop, failing a resalution between themselves, can only be determined by means of arbitration.
Now some of the MSAs got the supplier to sign off on their rights under the rules, but not on this one.

The system of arbitration is through........ICOS

I stand to be corrected, but it's my belief that no supplier has been able to get a case through arbitration.

Assessing your future in glanbia surely lies in studying the agreement between Giil and glanbia......does Giil sell all its product to glanbia or is it allowed to have its own routes to market. If it has its own routes to market maybe you are in no worse position than if you were with any other coop. If all product goes through glanbia, then you are for sure on a hiding to nothing.

Giil have made a massive commitment on facilities which naturally have teething problems and have to be got yo the point of being run to capacity over a period of time to get to the consistency level required for accreditation. This for sure will have effected milk price negatively as more profitable outlets may have been available. A bit like having bought heifers instead of cows for your start up farm, but may be the better decision over time.

I can see from here that many of you are seriously concerned with your present situtation. You need to look into resolving it, or it will eat you up inside. It will.affect your work and your business. Check the agreement between glanbia and GIIL, you just might be in the right place now and if you decide that you need to move ...do it..

WheatenBriar · 23-10-2015 11:51AM

alps wrote: »

I can see from here that many of you are seriously concerned with your present situtation. You need to look into resolving it, or it will eat you up inside. It will.affect your work and your business. Check the agreement between glanbia and GIIL, you just might be in the right place now and if you decide that you need to move ...do it..

Takes about 30 seconds to type this on a phone, no effect on work, same for the rest,though it did delay whelan2 face painting the kids slightly earlier...
As for concern about the current situation, business planning is as much a part of our work as anything

kevthegaff · 23-10-2015 11:53AM

Lot of guys moved to glsnbia/dairygold last year around this area, i personally didnt agree with thr plc structure and didnt want to invest in more shares! I said it to a few of these guys and got the "jim bergin reaction". Hearing some rumbles lately from these expats- strict testing, price, share up. Your local co op which isnt perfect, has less levels for the money to trickle down to us mere suppliers

kevthegaff · 23-10-2015 11:54AM

Bergin should have a got a tin of paint f**ked over him with that behaviour

WheatenBriar · 23-10-2015 12:15PM

kevthegaff wrote: »

Bergin should have a got a tin of paint f**ked over him with that behaviour

Oh he had that I hear at a meeting in Gorey one night,a box to the face I believe
I can't of course condone that but I'd have to repeat,his arrogance and that of the decision making process in Giil needs reigning in
Ask any glanbia rep,the anger out there is palpable, you'd really need to be in the counsel member pravda bubble not to notice it

Dawggone · 23-10-2015 12:27PM

With even more milk being produced next year, will the Belview plant be needed to process it?

On commodities.
I'm on the last 22ha of maize today and I couldn't find a home for it anywhere, so it is being dumped onto a boat (maybe even heading your way) at €129.5/ton

So I'm doing my bit to support you guys!

Cow Porter · 23-10-2015 12:34PM

Dawggone wrote: »

With even more milk being produced next year, will the Belview plant be needed to process it?

On commodities.
I'm on the last 22ha of maize today and I couldn't find a home for it anywhere, so it is being dumped onto a boat (maybe even heading your way) at €129.5/ton

So I'm doing my bit to support you guys!

Twill be up at 220 or so by the time it's here. Still better value than forage maize tho

whelan2 · 23-10-2015 12:37PM

Dawggone wrote: »

With even more milk being produced next year, will the Belview plant be needed to process it?

On commodities.
I'm on the last 22ha of maize today and I couldn't find a home for it anywhere, so it is being dumped onto a boat (maybe even heading your way) at €129.5/ton

So I'm doing my bit to support you guys!

No answers were given on anything about Belview, when questioned was the wrong stainless steel used in Belview they just more or less said paper doesnt refuse ink. Referring to agriland etc. They did say the down time now will be used to sort out and problems. They didnt say what those peoblems are.

mahoney_j · 23-10-2015 12:38PM

Dawggone wrote: »

With even more milk being produced next year, will the Belview plant be needed to process it?

On commodities.
I'm on the last 22ha of maize today and I couldn't find a home for it anywhere, so it is being dumped onto a boat (maybe even heading your way) at €129.5/ton

So I'm doing my bit to support you guys!

Ta dwag your too good!!!!

Milk Price- Please read Mod note in post #1

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