Manchester United Team Talk/Gossip/Rumours Thread 2015 - Mod Note Post 7373

Pro. F · 22-10-2015 11:59AM

beno619 wrote: »

He was good, but most of the top players in the PL underperformed, he was the best of a bad bunch.

I'm honestly surprised anybody thinks that's all he was.

The Moldy Gowl · 22-10-2015 12:04PM

beno619 wrote: »

He was good, but most of the top players in the PL underperformed, he was the best of a bad bunch.

If he was playing for utd you wouldn't think that.
At least we can dismiss some of your opinion of hazard based on what team he plays for.

beno619 · 22-10-2015 12:05PM

Pro. F wrote: »

I'm honestly surprised anybody thinks that's all he was.

He was an extremely underwhelming PFA player of the year compared to his predecessors, there were very few "**** me Hazard" moments last season.

Pro. F · 22-10-2015 12:12PM

beno619 wrote: »

He was an extremely underwhelming PFA player of the year compared to his predecessors, there were very few "**** me Hazard" moments last season.

That's not my take on it, but no worries.

The Moldy Gowl · 22-10-2015 12:12PM

Comic Book Guy wrote: »

How badly was Shaw's absence felt last night. Martial was consistently double if not triple marked out on the left in the first half with Rojo never once going past him and in fact consistently being 20 yards behind him. Maybe orders from manager to curb Fernandes breaking?

at least Valencia provided this option on other side and allowed lingard a bit of space.

This thing about Rooney being starved of service is way over blown. Surely the main issue is his almost total lack of movement off the ball. No runs in behind or down the channels to at least try and pull the defence out of shape.

Rojo was rightly staying a bit back becuase of him alright. When the ball went to martial, Rooney would come towards him and schwein would move over to recover the pass.

Lingard would then drift into the strikers position.

Rooneys off the ball is grand. He knows the tactics and has a ton of experience so knows where people should be and keeps the shape of the forwards. He is playing a kinda false 9 drifting back to get a pass and play it out wide and he goes back to striker or drifts wide allowing the wingers to move inside.
It's that false 9 that's killing him.

But he will be dropped for 3/4 games like Memphis and Fellaini will play up front.
Fellaini is better at taking the ball and dragging players out allowing mata or martial to move inside.

beno619 · 22-10-2015 12:14PM

Gowlasauras Rex wrote: »

If he was playing for utd you wouldn't think that.
At least we can dismiss some of your opinion of hazard based on what team he plays for.

Very true, I think he's a bit of a **** in general so its a tainted opinion.

The Moldy Gowl · 22-10-2015 12:18PM

beno619 wrote: »

Very true, I think he's a bit of a **** in general so its a tainted opinion.

Most certainly not obvious anyway.

Why though? Becuase he kicked a ball boy who was acting the gowl?
Or because he choose Chelsea over utd?

TheDoc · 22-10-2015 12:56PM

I somewhat agree with Beno here. I found the superlatives for Hazard last year to be a bit over the top. He had an excellent season of which there is no doubt. But I felt it was magnified by Chelsea retreating into their shell second half of the season, and with him as the only creative spark for months, it further exaggerated his impact.

But the impact he had there was no doubt. He was by far the best player last season, but that needs to be put in context. As Beno rightly points out, the top 4 in general were extremely poor in mounting title challenges and he just walked it. I didn't find much differences between Sanchez and Hazard for example, but obviously one winning the title, in cruise fashion, seemed to enhance his reputation further.

Hazard was being compared last year to up there with Ronaldo and Messi, and one of the best players in the world. I think that was totally out of proportion. He was the main driving force of creativity in a title winning side. A side that crashed out of the CL to PSG in relatively spectacular fashion. As pointed out above, Bale provided the same return for Madrid yet was largely castrated for having a poor season(he didn't btw). Memphis was an absolute monster for PSV last season, probably (I havn't checked the figures) providing more direct input for PSv then Hazard did for Chelsea, but people weren't losing the run of themselves with him labelling him up there with Messi and Ronaldo.

It's all a bit of perspective, but seeing Hazard this season, hearing how his manager talk about him, very much just compounds my view the reactions and superlatives provided to him last season were excessive and unrepresenting of the league as a whole, and where the player currently sits in terms of stature.

A quality player of which there is no doubt, currently in a bit of a rough patch. But I feel he has a ways to go before being labelled "world class" or anything of the sort. But then thats just my take, and my views on what constitutes world class might differ to others.

Pro. F · 22-10-2015 01:31PM

TheDoc wrote: »

I somewhat agree with Beno here. I found the superlatives for Hazard last year to be a bit over the top. He had an excellent season of which there is no doubt. But I felt it was magnified by Chelsea retreating into their shell second half of the season, and with him as the only creative spark for months, it further exaggerated his impact.

But the impact he had there was no doubt. He was by far the best player last season, but that needs to be put in context. As Beno rightly points out, the top 4 in general were extremely poor in mounting title challenges and he just walked it. I didn't find much differences between Sanchez and Hazard for example, but obviously one winning the title, in cruise fashion, seemed to enhance his reputation further.

Hazard was being compared last year to up there with Ronaldo and Messi, and one of the best players in the world. I think that was totally out of proportion. He was the main driving force of creativity in a title winning side. A side that crashed out of the CL to PSG in relatively spectacular fashion. As pointed out above, Bale provided the same return for Madrid yet was largely castrated for having a poor season(he didn't btw). Memphis was an absolute monster for PSV last season, probably (I havn't checked the figures) providing more direct input for PSv then Hazard did for Chelsea, but people weren't losing the run of themselves with him labelling him up there with Messi and Ronaldo.

It's all a bit of perspective, but seeing Hazard this season, hearing how his manager talk about him, very much just compounds my view the reactions and superlatives provided to him last season were excessive and unrepresenting of the league as a whole, and where the player currently sits in terms of stature.

A quality player of which there is no doubt, currently in a bit of a rough patch. But I feel he has a ways to go before being labelled "world class" or anything of the sort. But then thats just my take, and my views on what constitutes world class might differ to others.

Who was labelling Hazard as up there with Messi and Ronaldo? I'm pretty sure the almost universally accepted state of affairs is that there's Messi and Ronaldo and then there is everybody else.

Nobody was getting too carried away about Memphis because the defending in the Eridivisie is an absolute joke.

Sanchez was pretty phenomenal himself, he would have been a worthy winner of the POTY, but I don't get how Hazard winning it is supposed to be remarkable in a negative way. Who in the world of football, other than Messi and Ronaldo, do you think was so far ahead of Hazard?

bangkok · 22-10-2015 02:18PM

the best players in the world play in spain. There is no doubt about this. Pundits in the league know this but try and big up players like Hazard as being up there with Messi and Ronaldo, he isn't, but he is still a class player.

Most would agree I imagine that the top 5 players in the world all play in spain

Ronaldo
Messi
Neymar
Suarez
Bale

IamtheWalrus · 22-10-2015 02:32PM

bangkok wrote: »

the best players in the world play in spain. There is no doubt about this. Pundits in the league know this but try and big up players like Hazard as being up there with Messi and Ronaldo, he isn't, but he is still a class player.

Most would agree I imagine that the top 5 players in the world all play in spain

Ronaldo
Messi
Neymar
Suarez
Bale

Would the Spanish media include Bale in that list? I sometimes wonder if the British media include him as one of their own. Not knocking him by the way, just always wondered.

bangkok · 22-10-2015 02:35PM

IamtheWalrus wrote: »

Would the Spanish media include Bale in that list? I sometimes wonder if the British media include him as one of their own. Not knocking him by the way, just always wondered.

maybe, maybe not. they might put iniesta or someone else in it, but Bale has everything to his game. Its just the Madrid fans are a bit.... 'strange' lets say and like to boo their best players sometimes and Marca agrees with them.

They even booed Ronaldo!!!

Pro. F · 22-10-2015 02:39PM

bangkok wrote: »

the best players in the world play in spain. There is no doubt about this. Pundits in the league know this but try and big up players like Hazard as being up there with Messi and Ronaldo, he isn't, but he is still a class player.

Most would agree I imagine that the top 5 players in the world all play in spain

Ronaldo
Messi
Neymar
Suarez
Bale

I'd have Hazard, Sanchez and Aguero up there with Neymar, Suarez and Bale. Messi and Ronaldo then are off on their own.

Bobby Baccala · 22-10-2015 02:42PM

Pro. F wrote: »

I'd have Hazard, Sanchez and Aguero up there with Neymar, Suarez and Bale. Messi and Ronaldo then are off on their own.

Does nobody rate the mighty Zlatan around here?

Pro. F · 22-10-2015 02:46PM

P4DDY2K11 wrote: »

Does nobody rate the might Zlatan around here?

I have issues with his attitude on the pitch, so I'm always harsh on him. But undoubtably he's been up there over the years. Seems to be slowing down now though, so hard to put him up there ahead of the likes of Lewandowski.

duffman13 · 22-10-2015 02:50PM

Pro. F wrote: »

Who was labelling Hazard as up there with Messi and Ronaldo?

That came from Mourinho although this week he seems to be rolling back on those comments.

http://www.skysports.com/football/news/11668/9926980/eden-hazard-better-than-ronaldo-says-chelsea-boss-jose-mourinho

It's generally accepted last year was a poor league in terms of quality. Hazard got the awards for the best player and rightly so. I do not however see him getting in to the Madrid or Barca team.

Still after his antics when he originally signed for Chelsea and if the current situation is true that he is throwing his toys out of the pram, I wouldn't want him. He is a very good player.

bangkok · 22-10-2015 02:56PM

Pro. F wrote: »

I'd have Hazard, Sanchez and Aguero up there with Neymar, Suarez and Bale. Messi and Ronaldo then are off on their own.

Aguero maybe yes and Sanchez is such a class player but was sold by Barcelona and before the game v United 2 weeks ago has never really done anything of note in many big games in the same way Neymar or Bale have. Hazard still has a lot to prove, he needs to be more consistent to be considered against the likes of Suarez bale etc

Neymar will imo be the next player to win the Ballon Dor after Ronaldo/Messi.
Only 23, 39 goals last season for Barcelona and already 46 goals for Brazil.

sky88 · 22-10-2015 03:01PM

I actually thought sanchez played better then Hazard last season

also dont think bale is near the top 5 in the world in the minute he hasnt been great since they won the champions league

Cantona's Collars · 22-10-2015 03:12PM

Vic Vinegar · 22-10-2015 03:15PM

That's pretty awful.

Cantona's Collars · 22-10-2015 03:27PM

Vic Vinegar wrote: »

That's pretty awful.

There's fecking loads of them doing the rounds,some are a hell of a lot worse.I doubt the 45k attendance for City to be dubious at best unless they count empty seats.:pac:

Pro. F · 22-10-2015 03:56PM

duffman13 wrote: »

That came from Mourinho although this week he seems to be rolling back on those comments.

http://www.skysports.com/football/news/11668/9926980/eden-hazard-better-than-ronaldo-says-chelsea-boss-jose-mourinho

Well nobody would take what Mourinho says seriously. Doc was making out that the media were saying Hazard was as good as Messi and Ronaldo, but I really doubt that is true.

duffman13 wrote: »

It's generally accepted last year was a poor league in terms of quality. Hazard got the awards for the best player and rightly so. I do not however see him getting in to the Madrid or Barca team.

Still after his antics when he originally signed for Chelsea and if the current situation is true that he is throwing his toys out of the pram, I wouldn't want him. He is a very good player.

I don't think the question of whether he'd get into those teams is really very informative. Those attacks are all set as they are, so even if he was at the same level as Suarez, Neymar and Bale, there'd be no incentive for Madrid and Barca to start swapping in new players. Would he have been out of place in those teams the way he was playing last season though? I really don't think so. He was class. And Sanchez the same.

Check out these numbers:
http://www.squawka.com/comparison-matrix#premier_league/2014/2015/eden_hazard/165/126/454/0/p|premier_league/2014/2015/alexis_s%E1nchez/165/126/1581/0/p|la_liga/2014/2015/neymar/176/136/5001/73/p|la_liga/2014/2015/luis_su%E1rez/176/136/529/73/p|la_liga/2014/2015/gareth_bale/176/136/843/0/p#goals_scored/goals_from_penalties/chances_created/successful_passes/pass_completion/successful_take_ons/successful_take_ons_%/tackles_won/interceptions/aerial_duels_won#90

Hazard scored the least of all of them. But created the most chances and beat the most players (successful take-ons) by a significant amount. Sanchez made the most well rounded contribution, in terms of goals, creativity and defensive work. Bale's numbers are amongst the weakest overall, but imo he had by far the hardest team situation to play in.

Those numbers are in line with the impression I have that there isn't really much between all these players.

bangkok wrote: »

Aguero maybe yes and Sanchez is such a class player but was sold by Barcelona and before the game v United 2 weeks ago has never really done anything of note in many big games in the same way Neymar or Bale have. Hazard still has a lot to prove, he needs to be more consistent to be considered against the likes of Suarez bale etc

Sanchez being sold by Barca doesn't prove that he's not as good as the others. I'm pretty sure your theory that Sanchez had never done anything of note in a big game before two weeks ago is wrong. Didn't he score a goal against Athletico on the last day of the 13/14 season that would have won Barca the league if they'd held on for the win? And didn't he score the winner in a Classico that season too? And a goal against Brazil in the WC to get Chile to penalties? And a goal against Man City last season?

Witt regards to consistency, I'd say Hazard was very consistent last season. I'm not talking about how these players compare over many years, where you could doubt Hazard's consistency.

bangkok wrote: »

Neymar will imo be the next player to win the Ballon Dor after Ronaldo/Messi.
Only 23, 39 goals last season for Barcelona and already 46 goals for Brazil.

I wouldn't worry about the Ballon D'Or at all. It is fairly useless as a way of judging players.

Neymar being so young doesn't mean he was better in the time period we're looking at, rather that he has more potential to improve in future.

Rayne Wooney · 22-10-2015 04:18PM

Neymar will use us to get a better contract in the coming years, if you are playing in pretty much the Mecca of modern football with generally the best players and a chance to win all trophies, you don't move

Griezmann is growing a more realistic option in my mind, he might favour a guaranteed starting place with us ahead of the uncertainty at Madrid. A multi positional, young, quality player.

Would love Sanchez but Arsenal fans would riot if the club sold us their best player again, I think he'll go back to Spain and try get one over on Barca with Madrid at some stage if Arsenal continue to be Arsenal.

The Moldy Gowl · 22-10-2015 04:24PM

The Gaurdian has a rose tinted article about Rooney.
Didn't know Rooney has 11 more goals than shearer before 30 and twice as many assists. Both players have had cracking careers.
Shearer scored 84 goals after 30.

When all is said and done, Rooney has been a great player for the past 10 years. A great team player as well.

22-10-2015 04:41PM

zerks wrote: »

Stone Roses all the way for me!

newballsplease · 22-10-2015 04:45PM

There is nobody denying the fact Rooney has been great for Utd. A fantasic record he has.

But lately, probably around the last 2 years or so, he hasnt performed.
This year he has been shocking, but i think alot is down to the tactics aswell. However no getting away from the fact he is not the young lad we know him as with blistering pace.
That pace has gone along with other atributes he once had. His first touch has failed him on many occassions. Its hard to know why but i doubt its the captaincy. Maybe it might be.

I wouldnt say he is completely finished but if someone offered to take him, i wouldnt be bothered if he left.
I dont think teams look at Rooney anymore with any fear.

I dont think im being OTT, he aint getting any younger. Maybe he is past his peak? He did start on the big stage at just 16.

Jayop · 22-10-2015 05:36PM

German Manchester United star Bastian Schweinsteiger takes legal action after toymaker releases Nazi soldiers resembling him... named Bastian

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3284326/German-Manchester-United-star-Bastian-Schweinsteiger-takes-legal-action-toymaker-releases-Nazi-soldiers-resembling-named-Bastian.html

Manchester United footballer Bastian Schweinsteiger has launched legal proceedings against a toymaker marketing Second World War Nazi soldier dolls named after him and looking like him.

The 'Bastian' range of toy soldiers has a figure looking like the 31-year-old German midfielder - dressed as a Wehrmacht veteran complete with swastika-bearing eagle on his uniform.

Marketing photographs of the Bastian figure show him posing in his uniform, decorated with the Nazi eagle.

Others show him accessorised and dressed for winter fighting operations, carrying canteens, a backpack and other items.

In one image, he wears the medal ribbon given to soldiers who took part in the first winter offensive in Russia in 1941.

The Chinese company marketing 'Bastian', named DiD and based in Hong Kong, described his appearance to the football superstar as 'purely coincidental'.

It added: 'The figure is a member of a Wehrmacht supply unit, a so-called "kitchen boy".'

A Dutch firm was contracted to begin selling the figures in Europe for £65 each but that looks doubtful now lawyers for Schweinsteiger are involved.

Records show that Japanese businessman Takuya Umezawa is the director of the firm which also produces James Bond dolls and First World War soldier figures.

German newspaper Bild spoke with DiD representative Patrick Chan in Hong Kong, who told the newspaper: 'We offer no figures based on the footballer. The resemblance is purely coincidental.'

He added: 'The figure is based on a typical German. We believe most Germans look like this. Bastian is a common name in Germany.'

Media lawyer Ulrich Amelung said it was a clear violation of the rights of Schweinsteiger, and the portrayal of him wearing a swastika uniform was a 'clear case of defamation and insult'.

A spokesperson for Schweinsteiger's management team confirmed to MailOnline it had taken legal action regarding the dolls, adding they were doing 'everything in our power' to prevent their sale.

MailOnline has requested comment from DiD.

The DiD company website states it is based in Hong Kong, with its own factories operating in south China. It was established in 2003.

Although it produces its own figurines, it claims to also manufacture products for other companies, including Hasbro and Bandai.

The company's website stated: 'DID produce over 50 different items a year that no one in the industry can match.

'Thus, realistic, lifelike and accuracy are what you can find in all the DID products such as the widely accepted WWII series action figures.'

:pac::pac::pac::pac::pac::pac:

Bobby Baccala · 22-10-2015 06:44PM

Not gonna quote the above post because it's a bit long but fúck me I got some laugh out of that :pac:

Jayop · 22-10-2015 06:51PM

I really want one.

The Moldy Gowl · 22-10-2015 06:59PM

65 Pound/100 euro.

That's mental.

Manchester United Team Talk/Gossip/Rumours Thread 2015 - Mod Note Post 7373

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