All Stations To Bray on the DART?

carrolls wrote: »

Call people liars if you want. When Biffo says there was no announcement, I believe him.
Regardless of whether it was announced or not, skipping stations is disallowed in the passengers charter, unless engineering works are being carried out at the bypassed station. And even then it has to be pre-announced.

Delays outside our control
We cannot accept claims for delays that are outside our control. These include those caused by:
•pre-advertised timetable alterations due to engineering works;
•security alerts;
•industrial action taken without notice;
•extreme weather conditions;
•vandalism; or
•other activities carried out by people who do not work for us.

First off all not once did I call anyone a liar so please don't suggest I have!

Secondly you are mis-quoting the charter, the section you reference is to do with compensation payments and has nothing to do with what can or cannot be done, it simply states when you can't look for compensation.

Under the performance charter 98% of trains should run as planned, those that do bypass stations are less than 1% of trains.


GM228

carrolls wrote: »

You expressed doubt that the PA is ever broken or that there ever a possibility that the driver will forget or fail to announce that he is bypassing some stations, which implies you are suggesting that there is a good possibility that Biffo was lying when he/she said that the PA was off on his journey.

Anyway....
The following information covers passenger’s rights under the Regulation’s provisions, some of which are mandatory and cannot be subject to an exemption.

Travel information

If this non-mandatory provision applies, you are to be provided with pre-journey information, such as:
•The general conditions applicable to the contract
•The timetables and the conditions for the fastest trip and for the lowest fares
•Information on any activities that likely to disrupt or delay services
•The availability of on-board services
•The procedures for reclaiming lost luggage and for the submission of complaints

As well as being provided with information before a journey, you must also be provided during the journey with information concerning such matters as on-board services, the next station, delays, the main connecting services, security and safety.

No I said i find it hard to believe a PA is ALWAYS off, and yes I find it hardto believe anyone wouldn't bother making an announcement, but that is not makin anyone out to be a liar!

Announcing service adjustments before travel only applies if the changes are actually known before hand which isn't always the case!

GM228

carrolls wrote: »

So it is hard for you to believe Biffo is not a liar?
Give me a break.
I find skipping stations without adequate notice or information is truly a pathetic way to run an organisation.
Can you not see that?
There seems to be some mad Iarnrod Eireann company/employees agenda on this forum.

A liar about what exacrly? Never did I suggest anyone was a liar, I did not state that Biffo's train did or didn't miss a station. I did not state that the PA was off or broken. What I said was a PA isn't ALWAYS off or that a driver dosn't make an announcement is unlikely. Why would they do that? Biffo actually said "the commuters don't hear the announcement", that dosn't suggest a PA is off or an announcement isn't made. The reference to the PAs been off all the time was actually made by yourself and and 10000maniacs so why Biffo got drawn into it I don't know.

The one thing Biffo is incorrect about though is saying it happens more often than not which simply isn't the case.

I have been on many trains/buses/trams that announcements are always made.

It's a fact that all modes of transport all over the world have to make similar alterations to service often at the last minute and quoting charters or EU regulations does not add to the discussion if they are miss-quoted.

GM228

carrolls wrote: »

Wrong again. What I said was that the scenario of stations being bypassed happened to me on a lot of occasions, and in every case, the announcement was never made. So you really need to get your facts right.
Maybe the driver attempted to make an announcement, or maybe he didn't. Who knows?
The drivers to me seem to be playing the game of averages. By bypassing Shankill and Killiney they know there is not a lot of people left on the train. So they are probably taking the chance that if say 10 people are inconvenienced by their actions, how many of those are going to pluck up the courage to confront the driver or station manager in Bray. Probably not many.
And the complaints website in Iarnrod Eireann may as well be not there for all the good it does.

Obviously it's about stations been missed as that is the discussion at hand, but you stated that in every scenario the PA was OFF, not that an announcement wasn't made-my facts are right.

carrolls wrote: »

This scenario has happened to me many times. And the speaker system was off in all scenarios.
Unacceptable conduct.
Which part of "All Stations To Bray" are they/you having trouble with?
The decision to bypass Shankill should have been made before the customer boards. And the event listed in the Dart timetable at the station. This is how commuters should be treated. basic stuff.

Not rocket science.

Still trying to figure out how I called anyone a liar?

Anyways now you seem to suggest the drivers just decide not to stop and take the chance! What next?

GM228

devnull wrote: »

If you really believe that automated announcements work correctly and if they don't the driver corrects them, or if they don't work like they haven't on some sets for longer than I can remember a driver will make manual announcements, to replace them, quite frankly you can't get the DART very often.

Problems with the information systems on the 85xx class are rifle,

I'm on DARTs Mon-Fri (and the Maynooth trains), but we arn't talking bout auto announcements or general station announcements, but rather about a driver making an announcement during disruption which I've generally found is the case.

GM228

goingnowhere wrote: »

EU courts have ruled that act of god cannot be used as an excuse, no mater the reason you are entitled to the rights in EC1371/2007. Onlyif you were informed before purchase of a ticket can they use the above to exclude any claim or complaint you make

So basically they are breaking the law by bypassing dart stations ad hoc.
Good to know.
It is so obvious that this is wrong. The driver acting as God denying people access to their designated station.

carrolls wrote: »

So basically they are breaking the law by bypassing dart stations ad hoc.
Good to know.
It is so obvious that this is wrong. The driver acting as God denying people access to their designated station.

IE actually have every right to skip stops/amend timetables without notice and they are covered to do this under EC1371/2007 and their CoC.

Not ideal, but it's a fact.

GM228

http://curia.europa.eu/juris/document/document.jsf?text=&docid=135004&pageIndex=0&doclang=EN&mode=req&dir=&occ=first&part=1&cid=672652

Article 17 of Regulation No 1371/2007 is to be interpreted as meaning that a railway undertaking may not exclude its obligation under that provision to pay compensation of the ticket price in cases of force majeure.

carrolls wrote: »

So basically they are breaking the law by bypassing dart stations ad hoc.
Good to know.
It is so obvious that this is wrong. The driver acting as God denying people access to their designated station.

carrolls wrote: »

Not ideal? It's beyond ridiculous. And the sooner there is a law enacted to stop this cowboy carry on, the better for everyone who depends on public transport.

Look there is not a single transport operator anywhere in the world, bus or train, that does not have to cancel, curtail or alter services when unforeseen significant delays happen. Right now the railways are battling with leaf fall and this can result in serious delays due to trains not getting adhesion on the rails.

It's a fact of life - otherwise schedules for the rest of the day would go out the window. Or perhaps you have some magical solution that would resolve the problem - how else would you suggest that the trains and the drivers recover the lost time and get back to where they are supposed to be?

That's the only circumstance where this would happen (there were significant delays for whatever reason). It certainly is not the norm every morning, nor is it illegal.

Compensation only will arise where your journey is delayed by more than an hour.

The one point that I would agree with is that IE really need to make sure that PA systems on trains are working correctly so that when something like this happens, passengers are aware of it. However, that won't help anyone wearing headphones etc.

GM228 wrote: »

That is not law (yet), still at the "proposal" stage AFAIK, the regulation still stands in it's present form.

Also to note that will apply to refunds only.

GM228

It is the current EU level accepted interpretation of the regulation.

Irish Rail and the National Transport Authority are well aware of ruling and Irish Rail is paying out on its basis

Sure it wasn't what some people wanted when writing the regulation and there are moves to rewrite the regulation to get force maejure back as an excuse

lxflyer wrote: »

Look there is not a single transport operator anywhere in the world, bus or train, that does not have to cancel, curtail or alter services when unforeseen significant delays happen. Right now the railways are battling with leaf fall and this can result in serious delays due to trains not getting adhesion on the rails.

It's a fact of life - otherwise schedules for the rest of the day would go out the window. Or perhaps you have some magical solution that would resolve the problem - how else would you suggest that the trains and the drivers recover the lost time and get back to where they are supposed to be?

That's the only circumstance where this would happen (there were significant delays for whatever reason). It certainly is not the norm every morning, nor is it illegal.

Compensation only will arise where your journey is delayed by more than an hour.

The one point that I would agree with is that IE really need to make sure that PA systems on trains are working correctly so that when something like this happens, passengers are aware of it. However, that won't help anyone wearing headphones etc.

What a load of IE insider union speak poppycock.

carrolls wrote: »

What a load of IE insider union speak poppycock.

That ain't poppycock (weather or not it's insider or union speak who knows?).

The fact is it's fact, it happens all over the world in all modes of transport unfortunately, weather we like, agree or disagree has no bearing on them being allowed to do it or not (personally I don't agree), because they can do it and unfortunately sometimes they need to do it.

Trying to say things are illegal or they just can't do it are wrong-the facts are they can do it (and you may be surprised to know they can actually cancle/amend timetables WITHOUT notice) and are fully backed up by their conditions, charter and Irish and EU regulations.

GM228

10000maniacs wrote: »

Jeez I go away for a day and things get heated.:pac:

Firstly, it is unacceptable to bypass a station without adequate warning at the start of the journey.
In order for it to be acceptable for a driver to bypass a designated station mid journey, there has to be a better mechanism of informing the commuter than a PA system that might be faulty or not.
It is also an unacceptable excuse to say that a train needs to make up 5 minutes because it is 5 minutes behind schedule to justify bypassing a station.
If leaves are on the track there should be a warning displayed at each station that there is a possibility that you are at risk of the train not stopping at your station because of the leaves. A clear warning should be displayed on the electronic signs and the stations at risk should be listed at EACH station on the journey.

I doubt very much this would happen if a train was 5 minutes late, it would only happen in the event of significant delays.

The delays could happen after the train has left the first station, or after a bus has left the terminus. For example this morning Dublin bus has been massively affected by an accident on the north quays and has had to cancel/curtail multiple journeys to get buses and drivers back on schedule.

Should they have foreseen that before people started their journeys?

Also, the driver doesn't make these decisions - the controllers do.

As for leaf fall - there is a big notice on the IE website about it.

Let's be honest about this - this is is not the norm - it is very much the exception, and only happens where there are significant delays.

Some of the posts here would imply it's happening every day, which it certainly is not.