Web Summit quits Dublin

percy212 · 21-10-2015 02:04PM

He has been given all he is going to get in Ireland. Time to move on to the next "ambitious" city.

Muahahaha · 21-10-2015 02:04PM

smash wrote: »

Well is a liar? See here and decide for yourself: http://www.irishtimes.com/business/technology/paddy-cosgrave-issues-app-ology-1.2347565

I don't even need to follow that link to know that the Irish Times didn't call him a liar

I don't swallow all their spin. But you do seem to swallow all of Paddy's.

Then why are you repeating govt spin? You said they 'supported' it, which is exactly what Fine Gael said too

I don't hate him, I have no reason to hate him. I just dislike him and think he's sneaky and obnoxious.

I know he's successful but I said he's not a liked person, and he's not. Have you read any forums or reports from start ups who've attended and feel completely ripped off? From the volunteers who say he's a horrible person to work for?

What exactly am I making up?

Not liked by you maybe? Do you speak for everyone he has ever met? I thought not :rolleyes: You said he could be successful a few minutes ago and now I said the guy is worth €60m you change your mind and say 'I know he is successful'. I don't think you know your arse from your elbow at this stage such is the amount of backtracking going on here.

Its obvious from your posts and how you called him a liar that you've had dealings with him in the past and you'd don't like him. Fair enough.

But I'm more concerned in how our excuse of a govt has no vision and ambition instead of going on about what some guy may or may not be.

Carlos Orange · 21-10-2015 02:04PM

Muahahaha wrote: »

I've already detailed how over 5 million people a year visit Vegas for conferences. This is my entire point, this industry is worth billions and our govt had a chance to use the WS as a flagship to grow the industry. They chose not to because a school teachers and civil servants have never ran a business and don't understand ambition and vision the same way an entrepreneur does.

The average convention in Vegas is attended by about 200 people. They probably pay for their own wifi.

brooke 2 · 21-10-2015 02:07PM

Muahahaha wrote: »

Well you're calling him a liar on a public internet board, which is defamation. So sorry but you do have a vendetta against him, otherwise your anger wouldn't be letting you say things that could get you sued for defaming him by saying he is a liar.

Also you're coming out with govt spin now which is laughable. They 'supported' it was their spin last week when they said they spent some money at it through the IDA and EI. For that they got exhibition space and were billed accordingly. But the spin they put out was that they 'supported' it. If you're going to swallow every bit of spin Enda Kenny and Co feed you then there really is no hope.

I think he already is successful, AFAIK his company is valued at €60m which is some going for someone who is yet to hit his 30th birthday. Also I'm sure he is well liked by his friends. Again your vendetta against him is shining through here because you're just making stuff up to slag him off. You're not doing it rationally, you're doing it because you hate the guy.

If his company is worth €60m how come he was making so many 'asks' off the taxpayer? I know you're obviously a fan of his, but he comes across as a cheapskate. There are many people elsewhere in the media reporting on their sad experiences with PC. As a disinterested onlooker, I have frankly been appalled at his exploitative methods. He is well able able to charge entry fees but does not seem willing to spend much of it as he wants everything for free. No wonder he is worth €60m!! We have had enough of that mindset during the Celtic Tiger when we had developers cutting corners in various projects, eg, Longboat Quay, in order to pocket huge profits. Lisbon is welcome to him.

kidneyfan · 21-10-2015 02:07PM

Muahahaha wrote: »

But I'm more concerned in how our excuse of a govt has no vision and ambition instead of going on about what some guy may or may not be.

He didn't liaise with the appropriate people to get his needs met.

Muahahaha · 21-10-2015 02:11PM

seamus wrote: »

I'm laughing at the naivety of people thinking that Vegas conferences are popular because of the facilities and the WiFi.

Well they are popular because of the facilities, but they're not the kind of facilities that Dublin can, eh, facilitate.

Maybe if Michael Lowry had his way we could have Vegas-style "conferences" in Tipperary.

Vegas isn't the only conference centre in USA so its disingenuous to make that point about hookers and gambling (both of which are available in Dublin btw). I merely showed how Vegas has a strategy to attracts 5m conference attendees a year and remarked that why can't Dublin even aim for 5% of that figure. Our govt and powers that be clearly have no ambition to grow this market, if they did they would have used the WS as a stepping stone to grow our conference numbers. Instead the civil servants couldn't even reply to an email for two weeks. I don't know anyone who would describe that as good business practice.

smash · 21-10-2015 02:11PM

Muahahaha wrote: »

I don't even need to follow that link to know that the Irish Times didn't call him a liar

"He said he had built the ticketing app – Tito – used by the tech conference and went on to say the app is used by dozens of conferences around the world, like XOXO and Brooklyn Beta. All very good, except Cosgrave didn’t build that app."

Muahahaha wrote: »

Then why are you repeating govt spin? You said they 'supported' it, which is exactly what Fine Gael said too

Would you rather I used a thesaurus before I type just in case it's a word that someone else has used?

Muahahaha wrote: »

Not liked by you maybe? Do you speak for everyone he has ever met? I thought not :rolleyes:

No, but in the broad sense he's not liked. As many people have stated in this thread already.

Muahahaha wrote: »

You said he could be successful a few minutes ago and now I said the guy is worth €60m you change your mind and say 'I know he is successful'.

I didn't change my mind. It wasn't an exclusive phrase. I said he could be successful and liked.

Muahahaha wrote: »

I don't think you know your arse from your elbow at this stage such is the amount of backtracking going on here.

I haven't backtracked once.

Muahahaha wrote: »

Its obvious from your posts and how you called him a liar that you've had dealings with him in the past and you'd don't like him. Fair enough.

I've never had any dealing with him.

Muahahaha wrote: »

But I'm more concerned in how our excuse of a govt has no vision and ambition instead of going on about what some guy may or may not be.

The government stated that they would use this year's conference as a template for future his conferences regarding traffic management. It's not in their remit to go and force the RDS or hotels to pander to Paddy's needs, now is it...

I'd like to know exactly what you expected the government to do.

21-10-2015 02:11PM

Muahahaha wrote: »

But I'm more concerned in how our excuse of a govt has no vision and ambition instead of going on about what some guy may or may not be.

What do you think should have been an acceptable level of Government subsidy to Paddy Cosgrave's private company?

What level of engagement would you hope that the Government would have?

Recall the requests ('Asks' [sic])

1 - Paddy had issues with the WiFi at a privately owned venue, and was hoping that the Government would assist. (How?)
2 - Paddy wanted roads closed, and traffic calming measures organised by the office of the Taoiseach
3 - Paddy wanted Dublin Bus to provide more public transport, and pressure from the office of the Taoiseach to handle this happening
4 - Paddy wanted Garda Escorts for his VIPs organised by the office of the Taoiseach
5 - Paddy wanted someone from Government to sit down with all of the hotels (private businesses) in Dublin and explain to them the benefits of charging less than they can charge on the week that Web Summit takes place.

Just pick one of these requests and consider what level of Government engagement/interference you would tolerate if it was a Dennis O'Brien company.

No requests for cash obviously, but that's not to say they're not looking for subsidies by making those requests.

smash · 21-10-2015 02:14PM

Muahahaha wrote: »

Vegas isn't the only conference centre in USA so its disingenuous to make that point about hookers and gambling (both of which are available in Dublin btw). I merely showed how Vegas has a strategy to attracts 5m conference attendees a year and remarked that why can't Dublin even aim for 5% of that figure. Our govt and powers that be clearly have no ambition to grow this market, if they did they would have used the WS as a stepping stone to grow our conference numbers. Instead the civil servants couldn't even reply to an email for two weeks. I don't know anyone who would describe that as good business practice.

Vegas has the infrastructure which can be exploited for these conferences, and it's all privately owned, and privately organised. Do you want our government to build hotels and conference halls and run events management agencies?

kidneyfan · 21-10-2015 02:15PM

In fairness Web Summit were never given a price for what they wanted.
Clearly they would have had a number of bodies to liaise with for example Dublin Bus, Gardai, Dublin City Council and much of what they wanted would have been available for a price.

smash · 21-10-2015 02:18PM

Deleted User wrote: »

Recall the requests ('Asks' [sic])

1 - Paddy had issues with the WiFi at a privately owned venue, and was hoping that the Government would assist. (How?)
2 - Paddy wanted roads closed, and traffic calming measures organised by the office of the Taoiseach
3 - Paddy wanted Dublin Bus to provide more public transport, and pressure from the office of the Taoiseach to handle this happening
4 - Paddy wanted Garda Escorts for his VIPs organised by the office of the Taoiseach
5 - Paddy wanted someone from Government to sit down with all of the hotels (private businesses) in Dublin and explain to them the benefits of charging less than they can charge on the week that Web Summit takes place.

Lets not forget that these 'requests' weren't even outlined in the initial communications, which happened to take place as the Dail was returning from it's summer recess which means that the government were pretty busy...

Muahahaha · 21-10-2015 02:23PM

brooke 2 wrote: »

If his company is worth €60m how come he was making so many 'asks' off the taxpayer? I know you're obviously a fan of his, but he comes across as a cheapskate. There are many people elsewhere in the media reporting on their sad experiences with PC. As a disinterested onlooker, I have frankly been appalled at his exploitative methods. He is well able able to charge entry fees but does not seem willing to spend much of it as he wants everything for free. No wonder he is worth €60m!! We have had enough of that mindset during the Celtic Tiger when we had developers cutting corners in various projects, eg, Longboat Quay, in order to pocket huge profits. Lisbon is welcome to him.

I've got news for you- all big companies ask govts for free things. Do you think Apple are paying the govt full market value for the land for their new data centre in Galway? No way they are, the IDA have been doling out free/cheap land to big companies since the 1970's. Intel, Apple, Microsoft etc have all gained.

I don't for one minute think that the govt should have funded his Wifi. But at the same time I'm not petty enough to criticise him (or anyone else) for asking for it. Asking for something doesn't mean you're going to get it. And as anyone in business knows if you don't ask then it won't be offered. Its a negotiation, that all. I don't know why so many people get their knickers in a twist over it, big companies ask the govt for things all the time, it doesn't mean they're actually going to get them.

smash · 21-10-2015 02:30PM

Muahahaha wrote: »

I don't for one minute think that the govt should have funded his Wifi. But at the same time I'm not petty enough to criticise him (or anyone else) for asking for it. Asking for something doesn't mean you're going to get it. And as anyone in business knows if you don't ask then it won't be offered. Its a negotiation, that all. I don't know why so many people get their knickers in a twist over it, big companies ask the govt for things all the time, it doesn't mean they're actually going to get them.

Web Summit aren't a big company. And if you didn't want them to pay, then what exactly did you want? He asked, they didn't even get a chance to said no, he threw a tantrum...

seamus · 21-10-2015 02:32PM

Muahahaha wrote: »

Vegas isn't the only conference centre in USA so its disingenuous to make that point about hookers and gambling (both of which are available in Dublin btw). I merely showed how Vegas has a strategy to attracts 5m conference attendees a year and remarked that why can't Dublin even aim for 5% of that figure.

I'm not sure if you've been to Vegas, but the entire thing is structured as one big hotel. The entire town is designed as a destination. Without tourism, it has nothing. And conferences are a huge part of tourism because they bring in people charging everything to company expense accounts.

I see your sentiment, but to claim that "Vegas can do it, why can't Dublin" is like someone in Luxembourg asking why they can't be more of sailing destination. "Ireland can do it, why can't we".

Muahahaha · 21-10-2015 02:40PM

kidneyfan wrote: »

He didn't liaise with the appropriate people to get his needs met.

This seems to be half the problem. The Dublin City Manager has few powers. He was assigned a liaison officer who didn't want to do his job

Deleted User wrote: »

What do you think should have been an acceptable level of Government subsidy to Paddy Cosgrave's private company?

What level of engagement would you hope that the Government would have?

Recall the requests ('Asks' [sic])

1 - Paddy had issues with the WiFi at a privately owned venue, and was hoping that the Government would assist. (How?)
2 - Paddy wanted roads closed, and traffic calming measures organised by the office of the Taoiseach
3 - Paddy wanted Dublin Bus to provide more public transport, and pressure from the office of the Taoiseach to handle this happening
4 - Paddy wanted Garda Escorts for his VIPs organised by the office of the Taoiseach
5 - Paddy wanted someone from Government to sit down with all of the hotels (private businesses) in Dublin and explain to them the benefits of charging less than they can charge on the week that Web Summit takes place.

Just pick one of these requests and consider what level of Government engagement/interference you would tolerate if it was a Dennis O'Brien company.

No requests for cash obviously, but that's not to say they're not looking for subsidies by making those requests.

The three I've bolded were all very do-able. Road closures and a Garda presence take place at all big events, Croker, Landsowne, Electric Picnic. The organisers pay the Garda bill, iirc MCD paid the Gardai €500k last year

The VIP escorts was a minor thing, iirc it was in reference to less than 10 VIPs. We already do tons of these for whatever two-bit diplomat is up in the Park for the day. The entire canals in D4 and D6 were shut down this summer for 3 days running to transport some dude from the US Military that no-one had even heard of. The Irish taxpayer gets no tangible benefit from this, the US Military don't create jobs here and they aren't investors either.

Last thing is Dublin Bus. I doubt Cosgrave ever wanted his attendees travelling on DB. If he had his way I'm sure there would have been free shuttle buses all over town for attendees. Except you can't do that, no way would the DoT allow it to happen. So he asked for more buses to be laid on to get people home from the RDS. I really don't see what the problem is here, would people prefer that delegates can't get back to their hotel and have to walk instead? Because thats what happened last year, every bus was wedged and loads of people were left stranded.

21-10-2015 02:43PM

Muahahaha wrote: »

The three I've bolded were all very do-able. Road closures and a Garda presence take place at all big events, Croker, Landsowne, Electric Picnic. The organisers pay the Garda bill, iirc MCD paid the Gardai €500k last year
.

And do you imagine that the Office of the Taoiseach have anything whatseover to do with any of these?

Nobody's questioning their 'do-ability', it's the 'who-do-ability' that's important. PC appears to have wanted the Government to do his work for him. He wanted the Government to contribute time/effort/expertise etc towards his private company's profits.

Muahahaha · 21-10-2015 02:43PM

smash wrote: »

Web Summit aren't a big company.

They're the biggest conference company in Ireland. By a country mile too. And our govt has shown them the door because they couldn't be arsed to answer a few emails and sit down with them to thrash things out. Our govt didn't even have one face to face meeting with WS to see if a resolution could be found. Not one meeting.

21-10-2015 02:44PM

Muahahaha wrote: »

Last thing is Dublin Bus. I doubt Cosgrave ever wanted his attendees travelling on DB. If he had his way I'm sure there would have been free shuttle buses all over town for attendees. Except you can't do that, no way would the DoT allow it to happen. So he asked for more buses to be laid on to get people home from the RDS. I really don't see what the problem is here, would people prefer that delegates can't get back to their hotel and have to walk instead? Because thats what happened last year, every bus was wedged and loads of people were left stranded.

The DoT would have issues with Paddy Cosgrave paying private bus companies to operate as shuttle buses all over the city?

Really?

Dyr · 21-10-2015 02:46PM

Muahahaha wrote: »

They're the biggest conference company in Ireland. By a country mile too.

lol

brooke 2 · 21-10-2015 02:46PM

Muahahaha wrote: »

Vegas isn't the only conference centre in USA so its disingenuous to make that point about hookers and gambling (both of which are available in Dublin btw). I merely showed how Vegas has a strategy to attracts 5m conference attendees a year and remarked that why can't Dublin even aim for 5% of that figure. Our govt and powers that be clearly have no ambition to grow this market, if they did they would have used the WS as a stepping stone to grow our conference numbers. Instead the civil servants couldn't even reply to an email for two weeks. I don't know anyone who would describe that as good business practice.

Seems to me they were trying to wash their hands of him. This was not their first year dealing with him, after all. Once bitten, twice shy.......

Muahahaha · 21-10-2015 02:48PM

Deleted User wrote: »

And do you imagine that the Office of the Taoiseach have anything whatseover to do with any of these?

I don't know, I don't work in govt. But if it wasn't the right dept they why were they engaging with him at all? Why didn't they just say 'talk to XYZ, here's their number'. Surely that'd be the thing to do if the Dept of the Taoiseach weren't the correct people to deal with?

smash · 21-10-2015 02:51PM

Muahahaha wrote: »

The three I've bolded were all very do-able. Road closures and a Garda presence take place at all big events, Croker, Landsowne, Electric Picnic. The organisers pay the Garda bill, iirc MCD paid the Gardai €500k last year

And this was going to happen. But WS requested that any associated fees be waived.

Muahahaha wrote: »

The VIP escorts was a minor thing, iirc it was in reference to less than 10 VIPs. We already do tons of these for whatever two-bit diplomat is up in the Park for the day.

We're not talking about diplomats though, we're talking about tech millionaires. It's a waste of resources.

Muahahaha wrote: »

Last thing is Dublin Bus. I doubt Cosgrave ever wanted his attendees travelling on DB. If he had his way I'm sure there would have been free shuttle buses all over town for attendees. Except you can't do that, no way would the DoT allow it to happen. So he asked for more buses to be laid on to get people home from the RDS. I really don't see what the problem is here, would people prefer that delegates can't get back to their hotel and have to walk instead? Because thats what happened last year, every bus was wedged and loads of people were left stranded.

He asked for free Dublin Busses to carry out specific routes to bring delegates to and from hotels. And he wanted the DOP to work out the logistics too.

Muahahaha wrote: »

They're the biggest conference company in Ireland. By a country mile too.

No, they're really not.

21-10-2015 02:51PM

Muahahaha wrote: »

I don't know, I don't work in govt. But if it wasn't the right dept they why were they engaging with him at all? Why didn't they just say 'talk to XYZ, here's their number'. Surely that'd be the thing to do if the Dept of the Taoiseach weren't the correct people to deal with?

Sure give the Department of the Taoiseach a mail there and ask them to sort you a coffee.

I assume they'll instantly reply with the details of your nearest Starbucks, and an apology for not being able to help you further.

--

There's absolutely no way that in the years that Paddy's organised the Web Summit in Ireland, that he wasn't totally and utterly aware of who he was supposed to be talking to. No way.

Muahahaha · 21-10-2015 02:52PM

Deleted User wrote: »

The DoT would have issues with Paddy Cosgrave paying private bus companies to operate as shuttle buses all over the city?

Really?

Yes really. Both DB and private operators pay big money to the DoT for their route licences. The DoT can't just usurp them by offering route licences to anyone who wants them. As it stands to get a route licence the process with the DoT takes 18 months, you have to provide your own bus stops, heighten the pavements at the stops, all these things to keep the transport bureaucrats in the DoT happy. Any major events company knows this, so I'm sure Cosgrave knew the best way to solve the transport problem was more buses because laying on his own just wasn't feasible given the red tape.

smash · 21-10-2015 02:54PM

Muahahaha wrote: »

As it stands to get a route licence the process with the DoT takes 18 months, you have to provide your own bus stops, heighten the pavements at the stops, all these things to keep the transport bureaucrats in the DoT happy.

By stating this, you've proven how unreasonable the requests were. Especially since they were requested 2 months before the conference.

21-10-2015 02:56PM

Muahahaha wrote: »

Yes really. Both DB and private operators pay big money to the DoT for their route licences. The DoT can't just usurp them by offering route licences to anyone who wants them. As it stands to get a route licence the process with the DoT takes 18 months, you have to provide your own bus stops, heighten the pavements at the stops, all these things to keep the transport bureaucrats in the DoT happy.

You should probably call ExpressBus (previously AMC) Dublin and tell them that they're operating illegally so.

Given that they are a private bus company that offer shuttle bus services to many private companies without any of the above. I've used them a few times, they're a great company actually.

Here's their Johnnie Foxs Pub shuttle info, their ITB Shuttle and their Wright Venue Shuttle.

You're telling me that they couldn't have run shuttle buses from hotels to the RDS without bus stops and route licences? Come off it.

brooke 2 · 21-10-2015 02:59PM

Muahahaha wrote: »

Yes really. Both DB and private operators pay big money to the DoT for their route licences. The DoT can't just usurp them by offering route licences to anyone who wants them. As it stands to get a route licence the process with the DoT takes 18 months, you have to provide your own bus stops, heighten the pavements at the stops, all these things to keep the transport bureaucrats in the DoT happy. Any major events company knows this, so I'm sure Cosgrave knew the best way to solve the transport problem was more buses because laying on his own just wasn't feasible given the red tape.

So why was he asking some companies to provide their buses for free? Of course, they would receive advertising from him.

brooke 2 · 21-10-2015 03:01PM

[Deleted User] wrote: »

You should probably call ExpressBus (previously AMC) Dublin and tell them that they're operating illegally so.

Given that they are a private bus company that offer shuttle bus services to many private companies without any of the above. I've used them a few times, they're a great company actually.

Here's their Johnnie Foxs Pub shuttle info, their ITB Shuttle and their Wright Venue Shuttle.

You're telling me that they couldn't have run shuttle buses from hotels to the RDS without bus stops and route licences? Come off it.

But he would have had to pay for them! Paddy has to hold onto his millions!!

ChippingSodbury · 21-10-2015 03:05PM

Deleted User wrote: »

... it's the 'who-do-ability' ...

Nice one!

_Tombstone_ · 21-10-2015 03:06PM

round in circles you all go

Web Summit quits Dublin

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