Western Rail Corridor (all disused sections)

Muckyboots · 15-10-2015 06:45PM

Originally Posted by Banjoxed View Post
Tuam to Galway with connections to Dublin and Limerick at Athenry would be a distinct commuter/passenger service encouraging greater population densities in Tuam itself, and intelligent spatial planning in the West moving away from one off car dependent development.

Pete_Cavan wrote: »

Ah here, thats a bit over the top. Even if it did have an affect on population densities in Tuam, it would be nothing near that needed to support a train service. And if it did have an affect in moving the West away from one off car dependent development, it would be minuscule in the greater scheme of things. Most people would probably drive to the station anyway.

And is there even space on the line to Athenry for a meaningful Tuam - Galway service? It would more than likely be a shuttle from Athenry which would be better/faster/cheaper by buses on the new motorway.[/QUOTE

There are 25 buses serving Tuam to Galway daily, from 7am to 10pm, dropping people at various destination points around the city so that a second bus from the Square is rarely required.
The new Gort-Tuam Motorway will make Tuam-Limerick a one hour car journey. Tuam-Dublin is already just 2.15 by road. Rail just can't compete and even the most fervent rail heads have given up on Tuam- Athenry. Population density is coming from the motorway connection. Shed Tech have already opened on the old Coca Cola site on the back of it, and Valeo are continuing to expand and recruit. Adding an amenity with even limited income from a Greenway connection would strengthen the towns retail and hospitality sectors and add another diversified and essential layer of economic activity to the mix. Be nice for the locals too.

westtip · 15-10-2015 07:01PM

Banjoxed wrote: »

Funny, I thought that this thread was about disused sections of the WRC. Tuam to Galway with connections to Dublin and Limerick at Athenry would be a distinct commuter/passenger service encouraging greater population densities in Tuam itself, and intelligent spatial planning in the West moving away from one off car dependent development. That's the way to sweat infrastructural assets and not squander them.

.

If this is what you want you had better start a new lobby group, the current lobby group for rail connection from Athenry to Tuam, I believe they are called "West on Track" also known as WOT are only calling for reinstatement of Freight train service from Claremorris to Athenry, Apparently they believe the line can be re-opened for €30 million - which is quite surprising as in 2005 a report this group endorsed said the line would cost €93 million at 2005 prices to re-open - apparently a freight line is built to a less expensive specification. they are advocating second class infrastructure; One of their well known supporters who used to be a county manager and has a fondness for toy trains (he had a set on his desk at work apparently) quoted this figure of €30 million at an oireachtas transport committee meeting back in March. I think they believe a freight line is needed for the 1.4 freight trains a day emanating from Mayo that are perfectly adequately managed on the existing rail infrastructure, maybe they know about new copper or bauxite or iron ore deposit in Mayo which will need this freight line. They have no interest in commuter transport from Tuam to Galway but they do apparently want to shove 1.4 freight trains a day through Tuam town centre, that will go down well in Tuam. Talking about going down; Maybe you could call yourselves the Tuam Intercity Train Society or TITS for short. "TITS".mmmmmm I quite like TITS don't you?

westtip · 15-10-2015 07:30PM

Banjoxed wrote: »

Something was asserted as a fact by "Sligo Mayo Greenway Campaign". Ask them.

One chap Pat Neary on the SMG page did say this about a post on the SMG page:

"Total nonsense Sligo coco have publicly stated this to be a falsehood and unlikely to become a reality"

Pat Neary on Facebook was referring to the Sligo Champion Trail Gets Go Ahead headline, the report referred to meetings between Sligo coco and Irish Rail, The SMG page never said this meeting had taken place, but did refer to meetings in press releases between Irish Rail and Sligo Greenway co-op at which the Co-op got assurances from irish rail that they had no problem with a greenway on the route and that they had no interest in the old railway track and they would support the idea of a greenway on the route if the council were to approach, them. Irish Rail have said they will only work with the local councils on these greenways on closed railways. One of the cllrs in Sligo, ran off to the county executive when he saw the headline to get the council to deny that any meetings had taken place between sligo coco and irish rail, which was true, and to their credit the Champion reported the denial that a meeting had taken place in the following weeks Champion. However the press release from the council did not say anything about the greenway unlikely to become a reality. In fact the council have now invited Sligo greenway co-op to present at the next council meeting, they would hardly do that if the greenway was "unlikely to become a reality" nor would the council have passed a motion in July 2014 asking the previous transport minister Alan Kelly for funds for a feasibility study on the route and its potential as a greenway. At some point in the near future i envisage a meeting between Irish Rail and Sligo coco will take place, no doubt the irrate cllrs in Sligo (there are about 5 of them against the greenway) will find some other way to try and scupper what the people want to see happen, but that is politics for you.

If this is the "lie" Banjoxed is referring to then let us know if this explanation does what you need.

savagethegoat · 16-10-2015 03:19PM

Carawaystick wrote: »

Any passenger using any section of the line between Ennis and Athenry is in that 783 number.

I suspect it includes other journeys not using the "new" section of the Galway to Limerick service.

mayo.mick · 18-10-2015 03:46PM

Interesting to read back again on articles published a few years ago, 2010 actually. Article about the closed Galway Limerick route the week before it opened again, at a cost of €110m and the taxpayer subventing the line at a cost of €2.4 million a year.

JUST 320 passengers a day will use the €110m Galway-Limerick train service which opens for business next week.

And it will take longer to travel by rail than by road, with 30 minutes added to the journey time of commuters who choose to go green and leave the car at home.

Fine Gael Transport spokes- man Fergus O'Dowd said it would be "difficult" to make the project work. "It seems a very expensive operation," he said.

Even by 2015 when passenger numbers are expected to double to 640 people a day, trains will run at less than 40pc capacity, an independent review of the state rail company's business reveals.

http://www.independent.ie/irish-news/galway-to-limerick-rail-route-to-run-at-24m-loss-26644110.html

mayo.mick · 19-10-2015 10:04PM

http://www.irishtimes.com/business/transport-and-tourism/kenny-wants-national-strategy-for-walks-and-trails-1.2396611

“Our island north and south – a small island – can become a world example in how you have vigorous active holidays that you will remember for the right reasons,” Mr Kenny added.
“By 2018, if we continue on the path that we are on, we won’t have to borrow to run our country at all,” he said. He envisaged a 10-year spend of €100 million on trails nationwide."

"Mr Daly described the cycleway opening as an exciting day for Westmeath and Moate.
The rail track, which closed in 1987, had previously been used to film The Great Train Robbery starring Sean Connery, he said.
The track will now add to the 60kms of trackway already in place along the canal in Co Westmeath and will have a positive and transformative impact on tourism in the midlands, he added.
Mr Daly praised the local community for taking ownership of the project and expressed his belief that their involvement will make a trip along the cycleway an irresistible proposition. Mr Gallagher was delighted at the large attendance at the opening. He said the cycleway would provide a basis for further investment and business in the area."

BoatMad · 19-10-2015 10:11PM

I think , we can all agree that the notion of opening a line for freight is pharisaical in general , IE have in effect NO freight capacity , they dont have rolling stock or suitable locomotives and the capital needed to reinvest would never cover the costs .

IE is running a few freight trains a week with a tiny selection of cobbled together rolling stock pulled by locomotives bought in the 70s

lets leave off these debates , whatever happens , freight only operations will never happen unless a private operator was to provide the stock and infrastructure upkeep as well and that aint going to happen

end of the road · 19-10-2015 10:25PM

BoatMad wrote: »

I think , we can all agree that the notion of opening a line for freight is pharisaical in general , IE have in effect NO freight capacity , they dont have rolling stock or suitable locomotives and the capital needed to reinvest would never cover the costs .

IE is running a few freight trains a week with a tiny selection of cobbled together rolling stock pulled by locomotives bought in the 70s

lets leave off these debates , whatever happens , freight only operations will never happen unless a private operator was to provide the stock and infrastructure upkeep as well and that aint going to happen

actually they are using some locomotives bought in 1994/5 as well. they are also rebuilding a couple of sidings in mayo as it is . okay, its nothing compared to the operations we once saw, and which most likely we will never see again, but you can never be sure of anything when it comes to the railway. i never thought i'd see more then the 3 trains a day on my line but they did (mind you i fear we could go back to it yet)

Muckyboots · 19-10-2015 10:33PM

end of the road wrote: »

they are also rebuilding a couple of sidings in mayo as it is .

In Claremorris. Is this for "real" freight (what is it) or just a bit of glossing up for the Western Development Commission Cllrs. & prospective TD's.

BoatMad · 19-10-2015 10:36PM

end of the road wrote: »

actually they are using some locomotives bought in 1994/5 as well. they are also rebuilding a couple of sidings in mayo as it is . okay, its nothing compared to the operations we once saw, and which most likely we will never see again, but you can never be sure of anything when it comes to the railway. i never thought i'd see more then the 3 trains a day on my line but they did (mind you i fear we could go back to it yet)

IE can not recover freight operations, the 201s are an incredibly unsuitable locomotive for freight and the 071 class is in effect life expired

adding a siding of two is nether here nor there

passenger traffic is different

monument · 19-10-2015 10:39PM

Muckyboots wrote: »

In Claremorris. Is this for "real" freight (what is it) or just a bit of glossing up for the Western Development Commission Cllrs. & prospective TD's.

It's for the overall demand between passenger services and "real" freight, mainly from "real" multinational companies.

Why are we saying "real"?

Muckyboots · 19-10-2015 10:48PM

monument wrote: »

It's for the overall demand between passenger services and "real" freight, mainly from "real" multinational companies.

Why are we saying "real"?

Potential passengers are easy to identify and Ten-T states that they don't exist in numbers sufficient to invest, north of Tuam. As opposed to a "build it and they will come" philosophy currently peddled by WOT for freight Claremorris-Athenry. If there is demand for freight, what are the goods and materials they expect to transport? Logs, biomass, chemicals, beer, etc etc ?

eastwest · 19-10-2015 11:02PM

mayo.mick wrote: »

http://www.irishtimes.com/business/transport-and-tourism/kenny-wants-national-strategy-for-walks-and-trails-1.2396611

“Our island north and south – a small island – can become a world example in how you have vigorous active holidays that you will remember for the right reasons,” Mr Kenny added.
“By 2018, if we continue on the path that we are on, we won’t have to borrow to run our country at all,” he said. He envisaged a 10-year spend of €100 million on trails nationwide."

"Mr Daly described the cycleway opening as an exciting day for Westmeath and Moate.
The rail track, which closed in 1987, had previously been used to film The Great Train Robbery starring Sean Connery, he said.
The track will now add to the 60kms of trackway already in place along the canal in Co Westmeath and will have a positive and transformative impact on tourism in the midlands, he added.
Mr Daly praised the local community for taking ownership of the project and expressed his belief that their involvement will make a trip along the cycleway an irresistible proposition. Mr Gallagher was delighted at the large attendance at the opening. He said the cycleway would provide a basis for further investment and business in the area."

And meanwhile, a dozen councillors in three counties are going to ensure that the north west never gets to share in this prosperity and in these magnificent amenities. Their bizarre and obsessive worship of rusty rails and rotten sleepers is inexplicable to all sane people, but the real losers are the people denied this prosperity and amenity by these mule-headed Luddites.

monument · 20-10-2015 12:04AM

Muckyboots wrote: »

Potential passengers are easy to identify and Ten-T states that they don't exist in numbers sufficient to invest, north of Tuam. As opposed to a "build it and they will come" philosophy currently peddled by WOT for freight Claremorris-Athenry. If there is demand for freight, what are the goods and materials they expect to transport? Logs, biomass, chemicals, beer, etc etc ?

We're talking about existing freight and passenger movements on the Westport/Ballina lines.

Or at least I hope we are! I hope nobody is rebuilding sidings on a disused railway!

end of the road · 20-10-2015 12:39AM

BoatMad wrote: »

IE can not recover freight operations

not to the extent we saw no . but if some flows can be got on to the network then thats a good thing surely. better then none. and way better then the "we don't need freight we can rely on passenger traffic" stupidity which was the stance of IE in the later part of the 2000s. of course some flows went to road of their own accord but that can't be helped.

BoatMad wrote: »

the 201s are an incredibly unsuitable locomotive for freight

how so? okay they have restrictions which is an issue but for the current flows thats not an issue. they seem very capible of handling them. its unlikely we would see freight on the rest of the network anyway even if the capacity was there, could you imagine the outcry of a certain group if rail freight was encouraged? you would hear it beyond in australia

BoatMad wrote: »

the 071 class is in effect life expired

well they are refurbishing them currently, all be it whether all will come back i don't know. i've not heard of no parts being availible for jt22hcw locos unless you know something i'm not aware of which is very possible. i'm sure they will continue in service for a while yet. infact, they will have to until IE finds a solution because they are not going to upgrade the infrastructure to allow the 201s to be the only loco traction..

BoatMad · 20-10-2015 12:56AM

end of the road wrote: »

not to the extent we saw no . but if some flows can be got on to the network then thats a good thing surely. better then none. and way better then the "we don't need freight we can rely on passenger traffic" stupidity which was the stance of IE in the later part of the 2000s. of course some flows went to road of their own accord but that can't be helped.

how so? okay they have restrictions which is an issue but for the current flows thats not an issue. they seem very capible of handling them. its unlikely we would see freight on the rest of the network anyway even if the capacity was there, could you imagine the outcry of a certain group if rail freight was encouraged? you would hear it beyond in australia

well they are refurbishing them currently, all be it whether all will come back i don't know. i've not heard of no parts being availible for jt22hcw locos unless you know something i'm not aware of which is very possible. i'm sure they will continue in service for a while yet. infact, they will have to until IE finds a solution because they are not going to upgrade the infrastructure to allow the 201s to be the only loco traction..

dont get me wrong , Im all in favour of rail freight , its just that with the way gov stagey and irish Rail management have run it down, there is no capacity for IE to develop rail freight . This was summarised in the 2013 strategic rail review quite well.

BoatMad · 20-10-2015 12:56AM

end of the road wrote: »

not to the extent we saw no . but if some flows can be got on to the network then thats a good thing surely. better then none. and way better then the "we don't need freight we can rely on passenger traffic" stupidity which was the stance of IE in the later part of the 2000s. of course some flows went to road of their own accord but that can't be helped.

how so? okay they have restrictions which is an issue but for the current flows thats not an issue. they seem very capible of handling them. its unlikely we would see freight on the rest of the network anyway even if the capacity was there, could you imagine the outcry of a certain group if rail freight was encouraged? you would hear it beyond in australia

well they are refurbishing them currently, all be it whether all will come back i don't know. i've not heard of no parts being availible for jt22hcw locos unless you know something i'm not aware of which is very possible. i'm sure they will continue in service for a while yet. infact, they will have to until IE finds a solution because they are not going to upgrade the infrastructure to allow the 201s to be the only loco traction..

dont get me wrong , Im all in favour of rail freight , its just that with the way gov strategy and irish Rail management have run it down, there is no capacity for IE to develop rail freight . This was summarised in the 2013 strategic rail review quite well.

westtip · 20-10-2015 11:12AM

Muckyboots wrote: »

In Claremorris. Is this for "real" freight (what is it) or just a bit of glossing up for the Western Development Commission Cllrs. & prospective TD's.

And still no news on the Western Development Commission Report - commissioned back in Spring at the expense of the taxpayer......perhaps it hasn't delivered the results the WDC wanted from an "impartial" report. It's taking an awful long time for €17,000 report to become available to the public????

eastwest · 20-10-2015 01:22PM

westtip wrote: »

And still no news on the Western Development Commission Report - commissioned back in Spring at the expense of the taxpayer......perhaps it hasn't delivered the results the WDC wanted from an "impartial" report. It's taking an awful long time for €17,000 report to become available to the public????

That whole episode whereby this report on rail freight was commissioned by a certain group within the WDC seems destined to end up in front of the comptroller and auditor general at some point. It seems to many observers that this was a thinly veiled initiative to somehow justify the renewal of a redundant piece of rail line, but given the delay, it seems equally clear that the consultants didn't fall for it.
Still, sure throwing sixteen grand of taxpayers' money down the drain is fine; who cares?

20-10-2015 05:23PM

westtip wrote: »

And still no news on the Western Development Commission Report - commissioned back in Spring at the expense of the taxpayer......perhaps it hasn't delivered the results the WDC wanted from an "impartial" report. It's taking an awful long time for €17,000 report to become available to the public????

If the report has been completed but just not released, submit an FOI application for it. Costs nothing but a bit of time

Muckyboots · 21-10-2015 09:33AM

Tuam Herald reports today that Minister Pascal Donohoe in talks about new route for Athlone to Galway leg of Dublin-Galway Greenway. The new route will be through "publically owned lands" rather than CPO'd farmland. Might it take the Greenway via Athenry?

westtip · 21-10-2015 10:19AM

Muckyboots wrote: »

Tuam Herald reports today that Minister Pascal Donohoe in talks about new route for Athlone to Galway leg of Dublin-Galway Greenway. The new route will be through "publically owned lands" rather than CPO'd farmland. Might it take the Greenway via Athenry?

Maybe he has listened to advice given to him by Lorraine Higgins, who suggested the idea of running the greenway alongside the existing Dublin-Galway railway from Ballinasloe onwards, it might well take the greenway into Athenry, and wouldn't that be the ideal opportunity to link up with the Western Rail Trail from Athenry to collooney along the "disused section" of the Western Rail Corridor - who knows the plan might come together. It would also mean no need for CPOs and massive land compensation payments, those members of the IFA so opposed to the greenway in parts of South Galway may rue the day they turned their noses up to money money money....not to mention the lost opportunity to make even more money money money from potentially 250,000 tourists a year cycling through their communities, needing a meal, a bed, a drink, a new inner tube, a coffee and cake, a tea and scone etc etc ....Their loss someone elses gain.

westtip · 21-10-2015 10:22AM

Deleted User wrote: »

If the report has been completed but just not released, submit an FOI application for it. Costs nothing but a bit of time

Indeedie, and that card has not yet been played but yes it is still the 2 of trumps sitting in the hand for the last trick of the rubber. (some of you will understand this analogy!)

eastwest · 21-10-2015 10:28AM

Muckyboots wrote: »

Tuam Herald reports today that Minister Pascal Donohoe in talks about new route for Athlone to Galway leg of Dublin-Galway Greenway. The new route will be through "publically owned lands" rather than CPO'd farmland. Might it take the Greenway via Athenry?

There'll be a few IFA 'leaders' choking on their porridge this morning, talk about overplaying your hand! They were allegedly offered €60k/acre for losing a strip of land to the greenway but some genius figured he could push for more.
Pascal Donohoe may well prove to be a tougher cookie than many had given him credit for. He's certainly trumped the IFA this time, nicely played

westtip · 21-10-2015 10:34AM

eastwest wrote: »

There'll be a few IFA 'leaders' choking on their porridge this morning, talk about overplaying your hand! They were allegedly offered €60k/acre for losing a strip of land to the greenway but some genius figured he could push for more.
Pascal Donohoe may well prove to be a tougher cookie than many had given him credit for. He's certainly trumped the IFA this time, nicely played

If he does strike a deal with Irish Rail to go alongside the G-D railway - just think how much it will save in land costs, it might mean the greenway/national cycle network budget can be stretched further, afterall the western rail trail project will cost a fraction of the cost as it is already publicly owned land. I wonder what was budgeted for land acquisition in the DG Greenway project? At €60k an acre it must have been a fair portion of the total cost they were looking at, I just hope the department is no succumbing to the along on the old N6 argument...that will have little to no appeal to tourism or even local users and will not be family friendly.

cgcsb · 21-10-2015 10:43AM

That's a bad idea in terms of safety and you're putting massive constraints on the railway when you consider future re-alignments passing loops, double tracking and electrification.

westtip · 21-10-2015 11:03AM

cgcsb wrote: »

That's a bad idea in terms of safety and you're putting massive constraints on the railway when you consider future re-alignments passing loops, double tracking and electrification.

Safety, if you drive along a road for say 10km how many passing motorists do you have to be aware of, everytime you go on the road you take your life in your hands - clearly the people in the attached photo are terrified of the passing train likely to jump off the tracks and crash into them, any realignments etc would be accomodated, so disagree with you there is no problem with safety, the land would still be owned by irish rail for any future rail development consideration and it would save a small fortune in compensation to farmers who clearly don't want this to happen.Attachment not found.

savagethegoat · 21-10-2015 11:21AM

westtip wrote: »

If he does strike a deal with Irish Rail to go alongside the G-D railway - just think how much it will save in land costs, it might mean the greenway/national cycle network budget can be stretched further, afterall the western rail trail project will cost a fraction of the cost as it is already publicly owned land. I wonder what was budgeted for land acquisition in the DG Greenway project? At €60k an acre it must have been a fair portion of the total cost they were looking at, I just hope the department is no succumbing to the along on the old N6 argument...that will have little to no appeal to tourism or even local users and will not be family friendly.

I'm not so sure the old N6 argument can be dismissed so lightly...have a look at the cycleway alongside the Clonmel bypass as an example of how to do it. (never seen a bike on it though)

what_traffic · 21-10-2015 11:26AM

savagethegoat wrote: »

I'm not so sure the old N6 argument can be dismissed so lightly...have a look at the cycleway alongside the Clonmel bypass as an example of how to do it. (never seen a bike on it though)

I believe you just have dismissed it.

loyatemu · 21-10-2015 11:29AM

savagethegoat wrote: »

I'm not so sure the old N6 argument can be dismissed so lightly...have a look at the cycleway alongside the Clonmel bypass as an example of how to do it. (never seen a bike on it though)

can't find any pictures of that, but as a tourist amenity cycling alongside a main road (even if it is a bypassed section) is not as attractive as through quieter countryside (alongside a busy railway isn't a great option either TBH).

Western Rail Corridor (all disused sections)

Comments