Gay cousins should be allowed to marry

KungPao · 20-10-2015 11:15PM

NachoBusiness wrote: »

Deliverance banjo kid

Fun fact: He works in Walmart now and is struggling financially.

Isn't that fun?

Martial9 · 20-10-2015 11:18PM

seamus wrote: »

Ah, I see what's going on. Some numpty has taken this opportunity to place a ban on cousins marrying even though genetically it's not a problem.

It is a fecking huge problem. Forty percent of traveller marriages are between cousins and it causes huge health problems for their offspring. It is extremely common with British Pakistanis too and again the offspring suffer.

Medical data previously suggested that while British Pakistanis were responsible for 3 per cent of all births, they accounted for 30 per cent of British children born with a genetic illness.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/health/children/11723308/First-cousin-marriages-in-Pakistani-communities-leading-to-appalling-disabilities-among-children.html

http://www.independent.ie/opinion/analysis/almost-two-in-every-five-traveller-marriages-are-between-cousins-26231063.html

sassyj · 20-10-2015 11:18PM

major bill wrote: »

Thought you had to get special permission off the Pope to marry your cousin?? :pac:

That has nothing to do with the law of the land though. It is perfectedly legal to marry your first cousin in Ireland. I know of first cousins who are married, with healthy kids. Didn't know each other growing up.

KungPao · 20-10-2015 11:26PM

No cousins or other family members should be allowed to marry or have kids. It's weird, and we Irish are inbred enough without more in family sexy time shenanigans.

drunkmonkey · 20-10-2015 11:48PM

seamus wrote: »

Hate to break it to you, but female and male cousins can already marry.

Don't see the issue here tbh.

No they feckin can't, if they could Norris wouldn't have even said it as we now have marriage equality.
You can not marry anyone who is related by blood or marriage.

Muir · 20-10-2015 11:53PM

It could create a problem in future. Science is working on ways that make it possible for gay couples to have a child that is genetically theirs so if you allow gay cousins to marry you might then later have to ban them from availing of that type of procreation for the same reason that straight cousins aren't allowed get married.

_Whimsical_ · 20-10-2015 11:56PM

The whois who of who you can legally marry :
There's some odd ones in the "by affinity" category

Consanguinity – blood relationships

A man may not marry his:

Grandmother
Mother
Father’s sister (aunt)
Mother’s sister (aunt)
Sister
Father’s Daughter (half sister)
Mother’s Daughter (half sister)
Daughter
Son’s Daughter (granddaughter)
Daughter’s Daughter (granddaughter)
Brother’s Daughter (niece)
Sister’s Daughter (niece)

A woman may not marry her:

Grandfather
Father.
Father’s Brother (uncle)
Mother’s Brother (uncle)
Brother
Father’s Son (half brother)
Mother’s Son (half brother)
Son
Son’s Son (grandson)
Daughter’s Son (grandson)
Brother’s Son (nephew)
Sister’s Son (nephew)

Affinity – relationship by marriage

A man may not marry his:

Grandfather’s Wife (step-grandmother)
Father’s Wife (stepmother)
Father’s Brother’s Wife
Mother’s Brother’s Wife
Son’s Wife
Son’s Son’s Wife
Daughter’s Son’s Wife
Brother’s Son’s Wife
Sister’s Son’s Wife
Wife’s grandmother (grandmother-in-law)
Wife’s Mother (mother-in-law)
Wife’s Father’s Sister
Wife’s Mother’s Sister
Wife’s Daughter (stepdaughter)
Wife’s Son’s Daughter
Wife’s Daughter’s Daughter
Wife’s Brother’s Daughter
Wife’s Sister’s Daughter

A woman may not marry her:

Grandmother’s Husband (step-grandfather)
Mother’s Husband (stepfather)
Father’s Sister’s Husband
Mother’s Sister’s Husband
Daughter’s Husband
Son’s Daughter’s Husband
Daughter’s Daughter’s Husband
Brother’s Daughter’s Husband
Sister’s Daughter’s Husband
Husband’s Grandfather (grandfather-in-law)
Husband’s Father (father-in-law)
Husband’s Father’s Brother
Husband’s Mother’s Brother
Husband’s Son (stepson)
Husband’s Son’s Son
Husband’s Daughter’s Son
Husband’s Brother’s Son
Husband’s Sister’s Son

http://www.citizensinformation.ie/en/birth_family_relationships/getting_married/legal_prerequisites_for_marriage.html

drunkmonkey · 20-10-2015 11:56PM

That will be banned here and people who are created that way should be tattooed on their forehead or something that's completely screwing with the gene pool. Horrible science. The stuff of Frankenstein movies.

efb · 20-10-2015 11:57PM

Straight cousins can marry, non story.

Muir · 21-10-2015 12:01AM

drunkmonkey wrote: »

That will be banned here and people who are created that way should be tattooed on their forehead or something that's completely screwing with the gene pool. Horrible science. The stuff of Frankenstein movies.

I'm not even sure of you're being serious or sarcastic but I would see it as being very similar to using IVF and surrogacy, because that's essentially what it is.

drunkmonkey · 21-10-2015 12:05AM

Muir wrote: »

I'm not even sure of you're being serious or sarcastic but I would see it as being very similar to using IVF and surrogacy, because that's essentially what it is.

I'm not sure you know what it is, it will take 2 gay men genes for example and turn those into a baby with no woman involved, the female will only be used as a carrier. That becomes legal here and I'm moving the family to Russsia, it's one step to far.

Muir · 21-10-2015 12:16AM

drunkmonkey wrote: »

I'm not sure you know what it is, it will take 2 gay men genes for example and turn those into a baby with no woman involved, the female will only be used as a carrier. That becomes legal here and I'm moving the family to Russsia, it's one step to far.

Yes, I know exactly what it is - they likely will someday be able to create an embryo from the cells of two males and use a surrogate or two females and not need a surrogate. I don't see that as any different to IVF or surrogacy for straight people. However, our opinions on that are for another thread. Fact is that it will likely happen someday. Even though cousins can marry, the fact that this will probably be an option in the future means that if there are genetic reasons for not allowing straight people to marry, they should still hold for gay people (though it doesn't apply for cousins anyway).

drunkmonkey · 21-10-2015 12:20AM

Can someone show me where it's ok to marry your cousin just because your straight?

Muir · 21-10-2015 12:22AM

drunkmonkey wrote: »

Can someone show me where it's ok to marry your cousin just because your straight?

_Whimsical_ posted the list & link a few posts ago.

drunkmonkey · 21-10-2015 12:34AM

Muir wrote: »

_Whimsical_ posted the list & link a few posts ago.

Yup see it.

i'm wowed that's legal in such a small place.
If it's already legal think we should maybe ban it for everybody, didn't do me any harm not marrying my first cousin.

Is it common?

jamesbere · 21-10-2015 12:42AM

drunkmonkey wrote: »

Yup see it.

i'm wowed that's legal in such a small place.
If it's already legal think we should maybe ban it for everybody, didn't do me any harm not marrying my first cousin.

Is it common?

I don't know anyone who has married their cousin. I don't personally have a problem with someone else doing it, but I wouldn't do it myself. Just too weird.

Billy86 · 21-10-2015 12:55AM

What is this, Shelbyville?

P_1 · 21-10-2015 01:03AM

The taboo pertaining to cousins marrying is all down to the potential genetic deformities of any potential offspring. As it is biologically impossible for such potential issues arising from a male, or indeed, female couple I see no reason why such a marriage should be illegal. It might lead to some weird looking family trees down the line but that's the only potential issue I can see

endacl · 21-10-2015 01:15AM

kneemos wrote: »

How often are two cousins going to be gay and want to marry?

Depends. Which two cousins?

:pac:

Kiwi in IE · 21-10-2015 01:26AM

If heterosexual couples can't marry their cousins then neither should gay couples. Marriage is marriage and it should be the same rules for all. That was the point of the marriage referendum, to have equality and no more of the 'their marriage is different to ours', as was the case with civil partnership. I think this is quite an irresponsible statement from Senator Norris.

efb · 21-10-2015 01:29AM

Kiwi in IE wrote: »

If heterosexual couples can't marry their cousins then neither should gay couples. Marriage is marriage and it should be the same rules for all. That was the point of the marriage referendum, to have equality and no more of the 'their marriage is different to ours', as was the case with civil partnership. I think this is quite an irresponsible statement from Senator Norris.

Straight couples can.

Kiwi in IE · 21-10-2015 01:31AM

Ok, I just read more of the thread and it appears that it is legal to marry your cousin, so I take back what I said about Senator Norris being irresponsible. Same rules for all couples!

I didn't think it was legal to marry your cousin!

foggy_lad · 21-10-2015 01:33AM

Hitchens wrote: »

.......says David Norris

http://www.irishtimes.com/news/ireland/irish-news/david-norris-says-gay-cousins-should-be-allowed-to-marry-1.2399232

why are they not allowed, what difference would it make? .....strange!

I stopped paying any attention to this waste of resources and taxpayers money during his ridiculous attempt at becoming president and subsequent articles in papers where he bragged about swanning around the world for years at the expense of the taxpayer doing absolutely nothing but being treated like a Queen.

Kiwi in IE · 21-10-2015 01:34AM

If it's legal for straight couples, then why is it even being questioned?

Martial9 · 21-10-2015 02:34AM

foggy_lad wrote: »

I stopped paying any attention to this waste of resources and taxpayers money during his ridiculous attempt at becoming president and subsequent articles in papers where he bragged about swanning around the world for years at the expense of the taxpayer doing absolutely nothing but being treated like a Queen.

And writing up references for paedophiles on Seanad headed paper. An odious little creep.

Samaris · 21-10-2015 05:19AM

If it's legal for straight couples, it should, with the marriage referendum being implemented (at least once the last desperate attempts have been quashed) be automatically legal for gay couples. If it's not, I figure it's more a loophole left out than anything else.

My thoughts on it when reading the first post (and before I was aware that straight cousins can marry) was that it honestly doesn't bother me if cousins marry, although they should probably agree not to produce children. Same for siblings in that very rare circumstance (generally when raised separately) - albeit they should probably agree to sterilisation, given the major issues. It's the genetic inheritance that's the real issue, but if there's no child in the equation, then there's no harm being done to anyone. Admittedly, we do have an inbuilt resistance to marrying siblings - it's a pure biological reaction for the protection of the species, and that's translated into social mores. It's worth noting that it seems siblings have to be raised in close proximity for that "warning" signal to be given off, siblings raised separately means that the signals don't flick the "no, bad idea" receptors in the brain.

Having said that, Ireland has made a major step not that long ago, and it might be as well to give people a break before coaxing them any further down the path to damnation for the sanity of the older population if nothing else :P

All of that is irrelevant though, since there's no legal barrier on cousins marrying.

MJI · 21-10-2015 05:44AM

Isn't this the "slippery slope" the conservatives warned us about before the referendum? We let samesex marriage happen and pretty soon people are marrying their pets.:D

jaykay74 · 21-10-2015 06:07AM

MJI wrote:

We let samesex marriage happen and pretty soon people are marrying their pets.

Gay pets or hetero pets?

hairyslug · 21-10-2015 06:12AM

Magico Gonzalez wrote: »

All 10 of them, sure let them at it.

What harm to the rest of us, or is someone going to pronounce that the fabric of society is going to be torn down and replaced with godless mayhem because some larrup is banging the life out of his/her cousin.

Sure while there's no kids involved, let them go forth and wire into each other.

Ps..you'd be worried if you were his cousin ! (Joke, just a joke!)

So eloquently worded

zeffabelli · 21-10-2015 06:25AM

Kiwi in IE wrote: »

If heterosexual couples can't marry their cousins then neither should gay couples. Marriage is marriage and it should be the same rules for all. That was the point of the marriage referendum, to have equality and no more of the 'their marriage is different to ours', as was the case with civil partnership. I think this is quite an irresponsible statement from Senator Norris.

But it's not the same. Gay people can't reproduce naturally.

Problem with equality... It's blind to difference.

Gay cousins should be allowed to marry

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