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Interesting wee read on Ireland's Slave history.

  • 19-10-2015 11:10PM
    #1
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 724 ✭✭✭


    God bless them all.

    http://www.globalresearch.ca/the-irish-slave-trade-the-forgotten-white-slaves/31076
    They came as slaves: human cargo transported on British ships bound for the Americas. They were shipped by the hundreds of thousands and included men, women, and even the youngest of children.

    Whenever they rebelled or even disobeyed an order, they were punished in the harshest ways. Slave owners would hang their human property by their hands and set their hands or feet on fire as one form of punishment. Some were burned alive and had their heads placed on pikes in the marketplace as a warning to other captives.

    We don’t really need to go through all of the gory details, do we? We know all too well the atrocities of the African slave trade.

    But are we talking about African slavery? King James VI and Charles I also led a continued effort to enslave the Irish. Britain’s Oliver Cromwell furthered this practice of dehumanizing one’s next door neighbour.

    The Irish slave trade began when James VI sold 30,000 Irish prisoners as slaves to the New World. His Proclamation of 1625 required Irish political prisoners be sent overseas and sold to English settlers in the West Indies.

    By the mid 1600s, the Irish were the main slaves sold to Antigua and Montserrat. At that time, 70% of the total population of Montserrat were Irish slaves.

    Ireland quickly became the biggest source of human livestock for English merchants. The majority of the early slaves to the New World were actually white.

    From 1641 to 1652, over 500,000 Irish were killed by the English and another 300,000 were sold as slaves. Ireland’s population fell from about 1,500,000 to 600,000 in one single decade.

    Families were ripped apart as the British did not allow Irish dads to take their wives and children with them across the Atlantic. This led to a helpless population of homeless women and children. Britain’s solution was to auction them off as well.

    During the 1650s, over 100,000 Irish children between the ages of 10 and 14 were taken from their parents and sold as slaves in the West Indies, Virginia and New England. In this decade, 52,000 Irish (mostly women and children) were sold to Barbados and Virginia.

    Another 30,000 Irish men and women were also transported and sold to the highest bidder. In 1656, Cromwell ordered that 2000 Irish children be taken to Jamaica and sold as slaves to English settlers.

    Many people today will avoid calling the Irish slaves what they truly were: Slaves. They’ll come up with terms like “Indentured Servants” to describe what occurred to the Irish. However, in most cases from the 17th and 18th centuries, Irish slaves were nothing more than human cattle.

    As an example, the African slave trade was just beginning during this same period. It is well recorded that African slaves, not tainted with the stain of the hated Catholic theology and more expensive to purchase, were often treated far better than their Irish counterparts.

    African slaves were very expensive during the late 1600s (£50 Sterling). Irish slaves came cheap (no more than £5 Sterling). If a planter whipped, branded or beat an Irish slave to death, it was never a crime. A death was a monetary setback, but far cheaper than killing a more expensive African.

    The English masters quickly began breeding the Irish women for both their own personal pleasure and for greater profit. Children of slaves were themselves slaves, which increased the size of the master’s free workforce.

    Even if an Irish woman somehow obtained her freedom, her kids would remain slaves of her master. Thus, Irish mothers, even with this new found emancipation, would seldom abandon their children and would remain in servitude.

    In time, the English thought of a better way to use these women to increase their market share: The settlers began to breed Irish women and girls (many as young as 12) with African men to produce slaves with a distinct complexion. These new “mulatto” slaves brought a higher price than Irish livestock and, likewise, enabled the settlers to save money rather than purchase new African slaves.

    This practice of interbreeding Irish females with African men went on for several decades and was so widespread that, in 1681, legislation was passed “forbidding the practice of mating Irish slave women to African slave men for the purpose of producing slaves for sale.” In short, it was stopped only because it interfered with the profits of a large slave transport company.

    England continued to ship tens of thousands of Irish slaves for more than a century. Records state that, after the 1798 Irish Rebellion, thousands of Irish slaves were sold to both America and Australia. There were horrible abuses of both African and Irish captives. One British ship even dumped 1,302 slaves into the Atlantic Ocean so that the crew would have plenty of food to eat.

    There is little question the Irish experienced the horrors of slavery as much (if not more, in the 17th Century) as the Africans did. There is also little question that those brown, tanned faces you witness in your travels to the West Indies are very likely a combination of African and Irish ancestry.#

    In 1839, Britain finally decided on it’s own to end its participation in Satan’s highway to hell and stopped transporting slaves. While their decision did not stop pirates from doing what they desired, the new law slowly concluded this chapter of Irish misery.

    But, if anyone, black or white, believes that slavery was only an African experience, then they’ve got it completely wrong. Irish slavery is a subject worth remembering, not erasing from our memories.

    But, why is it so seldom discussed? Do the memories of hundreds of thousands of Irish victims not merit more than a mention from an unknown writer?

    Or is their story to be the one that their English masters intended: To completely disappear as if it never happened.

    None of the Irish victims ever made it back to their homeland to describe their ordeal. These are the lost slaves; the ones that time and biased history books conveniently forgot.


«134

Comments

  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 15,846 ✭✭✭✭retalivity


    Aintnobodygottimeforthat.jpeg


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 724 ✭✭✭Hagar7


    retalivity wrote: »
    Aintnobodygottimeforthat.jpeg
    Thatsnotmyfaultifyoucantbebotheredaboutit.jpeg


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 20,237 ✭✭✭✭jimgoose


    Yes yes, we knew all that - didn't you get the telegram from Whitehall apologising for all that slavery malarkey, and informing you that you were wu'th eight hund'd dollahs down'n Awlans?


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 724 ✭✭✭Hagar7


    jimgoose wrote: »
    Yes yes, we knew all that - didn't you get the telegram from Whitehall apologising for all that slavery malarkey, and informing you that you were wu'th eight hund'd dollahs down'n Awlans?
    Er,no.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 18,299 ✭✭✭✭The Backwards Man


    And the first country to abolish slavery was?

    There's no story like a whole story. The world was a whole other place in the 1600s than it is now.


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  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 323 ✭✭emigrate2012


    Jess that's fcukin shocking, never heard that before.


  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    Why so bold?


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 386 ✭✭Nichard Dixon


    And the first country to abolish slavery was?

    Denmark?
    There's no story like a whole story. The world was a whole other place in the 1600s than it is now.

    Some people are still trying to keep 17th century projects going, projects from that period such as the plantation of Ulster or suppression of the Irish language.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 3,129 ✭✭✭Dr Turk Turkelton


    Any chance we might get a few quid in reparations?


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 5,191 ✭✭✭Eugene Norman


    And the first country to abolish slavery was?

    There's no story like a whole story. The world was a whole other place in the 1600s than it is now.

    Ireland under st Patrick?

    Funny enough the Normans abolished slavery in Britain but it was introduced back by Elizabeth et al. to populate the colonies.


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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 18,299 ✭✭✭✭The Backwards Man


    Ireland under st Patrick?

    Funny enough the Normans abolished slavery in Britain but it was introduced back by Elizabeth et al. to populate the colonies.

    Aye there was a lot of abolishing and reintroducing over the centuries alright, and I think it might have been some of the Nordic countries that first abolished it for good, but my point is that for all the anti English tirades masquerading as a thread, the OP picked the wrong one as regards slavery, most world powers were much much more savage.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 661 ✭✭✭masti123


    For those interested, Damien Dempsey wrote a great song on this topic called "To Hell or Barbados". 

    .


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 661 ✭✭✭masti123


    Also, "The Black Irish of Montserrat"

    .


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 33,782 ✭✭✭✭RobertKK


    I knew of this, and the English said Catholics could be slaves as they were not Christian.

    St Patrick's day is a public holiday on Montserrat.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 2,129 ✭✭✭R P McMurphy


    Aye there was a lot of abolishing and reintroducing over the centuries alright, and I think it might have been some of the Nordic countries that first abolished it for good, but my point is that for all the anti English tirades masquerading as a thread, the OP picked the wrong one as regards slavery, most world powers were much much more savage.

    What exactly is your point. The post is a link to a book on the white slavery trade. Are you disputing what is presented in the extract?


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 97 ✭✭Yodeling Snake


    Hagar7 wrote: »
    God bless them all.

    http://www.globalresearch.ca/the-irish-slave-trade-the-forgotten-white-slaves/31076
    They came as slaves: human cargo transported on British ships bound for the Americas. They were shipped by the hundreds of thousands and included men, women, and even the youngest of children.

    ........

    None of the Irish victims ever made it back to their homeland to describe their ordeal. These are the lost slaves; the ones that time and biased history books conveniently forgot.

    That's a really interesting share Hagar. Ta


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 18,299 ✭✭✭✭The Backwards Man


    What exactly is your point. The post is a link to a book on the white slavery trade. Are you disputing what is presented in the extract?

    Nope, I'm disputing the intentions of the OP.

    All slavery is bad. End of.

    You don't be long getting into glass houses and stones territory when you start the slavery blame game.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 772 ✭✭✭the dark phantom


    The Bank Of England funded Cromwell's antics in Ireland.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 386 ✭✭Nichard Dixon


    Aye there was a lot of abolishing and reintroducing over the centuries alright, and I think it might have been some of the Nordic countries that first abolished it for good, but my point is that for all the anti English tirades masquerading as a thread, the OP picked the wrong one as regards slavery, most world powers were much much more savage.

    Well the Scandinavians were also known for carrying off Irish women as sex slaves to found Iceland. Many things happened in the past, which isn't relevant to the present unless those concerned approve of the past and are trying to keep it going in the present.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 18,299 ✭✭✭✭The Backwards Man


    Well the Scandinavians were also known for carrying off Irish women as sex slaves to found Iceland. Many things happened in the past, which isn't relevant to the present unless those concerned approve of the past and are trying to keep it going in the present.

    Indeed. :)


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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 97 ✭✭Yodeling Snake


    Aye there was a lot of abolishing and reintroducing over the centuries alright, and I think it might have been some of the Nordic countries that first abolished it for good, but my point is that for all the anti English tirades masquerading as a thread, the OP picked the wrong one as regards slavery, most world powers were much much more savage.

    Yourself and Cromwell would have been great mates I'd say. Sure when you think of it there was no harm in it all really. They probably deserved to be enslaved stupid bloody Catholic Irish. John Pilger on Australia: never have so many suffered under the moon to bring about this great nation. White slavery. That's not an exact quote but words to that affect.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 1,796 ✭✭✭Azalea


    Nope, I'm disputing the intentions of the OP.

    All slavery is bad. End of.

    You don't be long getting into glass houses and stones territory when you start the slavery blame game.
    Where's the blame game or indication that this slavery is worse than any other slavery? It's just telling us about a specific slavery - that of Irish people, which makes sense on an Irish discussion board.

    I don't understand why you're inferring stuff that's not apparent. :confused:

    There'd be no throwing stones from glasshouses - unless any of the critics of slavery on this thread are secretly slave-traders!


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 18,299 ✭✭✭✭The Backwards Man


    Yourself and Cromwell would have been great mates I'd say. Sure when you think of it there was no harm in it all really. They probably deserved to be enslaved stupid bloody Catholic Irish. John Pilger on Australia: never have so many suffered under the moon to bring about this great nation. White slavery. That's not an exact quote but words to that affect.
    Yep that's exactly what I said. Well done :)
    Azalea wrote: »
    Where's the blame game or indication that this slavery is worse than any other slavery? It's just telling us about a specific slavery - that of Irish people, which makes sense on an Irish discussion board.

    I don't understand why you're inferring stuff that's not apparent. :confused:

    There'd be no throwing stones from glasshouses - unless any of the critics of slavery on this thread are secretly slave-traders!

    It's a 'Fuk Da Brits' thread, and any discussion about slavery and the hundreds of thousands of Irish that suffered it's horrible end, not to mention the thousands that profited from it, is purely incidental. :)


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 10,115 ✭✭✭✭Junkyard Tom


    the slavery blame game.

    There is no game. If you engaged in wholesale slavery you're to blame and the slaves aren't - it's that simple.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 18,299 ✭✭✭✭The Backwards Man


    There is no game. If you engaged in wholesale slavery you're to blame and the slaves aren't - it's that simple.
    Exactly me oul mucker.;)


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 1,356 ✭✭✭MakeEmLaugh


    Hagar7 wrote: »
    Interesting wee read on Ireland's Slave history

    Interesting, but not universally accepted as fact.

    Liam Hogan, a historian from Limerick, has said that the distinction must be made between black African slaves and white Irish indentured servants.

    You can read more about it here, but I'll give you a few quotes.
    It was with a heavy heart and no small amount of anger that I decided it was necessary to write a public refutation of the insidious myth that the Irish were once chattel slaves in the British colonies.

    We know that Europeans who were forcibly deported from England, Scotland and Ireland to the Caribbean in the mid-17th century cannot be accurately described as “slaves.” They were indentured servants.
    • Colonial servitude was temporary.
    • Colonial slavery was perpetual and hereditary: the children of slaves were the property of their owner.
    The ‘Irish slaves’ myth is also a convenient focal point for nationalist histories as it obscures the critically underwritten story of how so many Irish people, whether Gaelic, Hiberno-Norman or Anglo-Irish, benefited from the Atlantic slave trade and other colonial exploits in multiple continents for hundreds of years.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 18,299 ✭✭✭✭The Backwards Man


    Interesting, but not universally accepted as fact.

    Liam Hogan, a historian from Limerick, has said that the distinction must be made between black African slaves and white Irish indentured servants.

    You can read more about it here, but I'll give you a few quotes.

    Indentured is a fancy word for enslavement in fairness, it's all servitude.

    Even the hiring fairs, which my own granny was a victim of in the 1930s when the Free State was well established, were a form of servitude. That's not even a hundred years ago and she always spoke highly of her 'employer' as he didn't beat or rape her. As I said earlier, the world is a different place now.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 655 ✭✭✭Martial9


    masti123 wrote: »
    Also, "The Black Irish of Montserrat"

    .

    He sounds more Irish than a lot of Irish people. That is amazing. How is it possible that the accent survived so long there? He sounds so Irish you could imagine the chap holding court and spinning a yarn in a West Cork local on a Sunday!


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,785 ✭✭✭The Golden Miller


    Yep that's exactly what I said. Well done :)


    It's a 'Fuk Da Brits' thread, and any discussion about slavery and the hundreds of thousands of Irish that suffered it's horrible end, not to mention the thousands that profited from it, is purely incidental. :)

    It's a "fuk da brits" thread? Really? Ok, go and find the OP's last post even mentioning "da brits" and come back to me. So effectively what your saying is Irish history can never ever be discussed if the Irish are the victims of British oppression because it's just an ulterior motive to say "fuk da brits".


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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 12,069 ✭✭✭✭LordSutch


    So this is a history thread about the slave trade & pirates from the 1600s ...

    Maybe then it would be more appropriate to have this discussion in the History Forum, whare you can discuss this topic with people who know their onions 'sort to speak' re the 1600s.

    You base this thread on a book by John Martin, and here is an excerpt from his book ...

    The book starts off > "From 1641 to 1652, over 500,000 Irish were killed by the English... and another 300,000 were sold as slaves. Ireland’s population fell from about 1,500,000 to 600,000 in one single decade. Families were ripped apart as the British did not allow Irish dads to take their wives and children with them across the Atlantic. This led to a helpless population of homeless women and children. Britain’s solution was to auction them off as well".

    Interestingly I seem to remember this very book by John Martin popping up in another thread a week or two ago, and it transpired that those numbers above, were (not surprisingly) totally skewed :cool:

    Whats the real purpose of this thread?


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