Residents object to temporary halting site

gandalf · 19-10-2015 07:44AM

hatrickpatrick wrote: »

I've said this several times already but I'll say it again: I'm honestly shocked at how normalised this f*cking abhorrent bigotry is as soon as travellers are involved. Replace travellers with any other demographic and you'd be ashamed of yourself for posting it. You are all following the same very basic assumption which lies at the heart of all of this broken logic, and that is "I've heard of travellers who are criminal scum, therefore every single traveller family and every single halting site is full of criminal scum". It's absolutely ridiculous and the fact that people here don't see how stupid they're being coming out with this utter sh!te is frightening.

First they came for.....

Now you are being dramatic. I base my opinions on what is occurring in my area.

I've seen first hand a racist assault on a man who just happened to be walking past the traveller settlement at the wrong time. Me and my wife had to escort that man up the road to ensure the assault didn't progress any further. They were members of that settlement. That man was assaulted because he was black. That was real racism not a faux one.

We have seen spikes in criminal activity and damage that the local Gardai have attributed to the travellers.

I've seen the littering and dumping associated with official halting sites and a official settlement.

Coupled with the media stories regarding traveller based crime around the country you have to concede that it is highly understandable why people consider the travelling community with such suspicion. It certainly explains why the residents of Rockville Drive do not want them to move in beside them.

I'd suggest less hand wringing as people are basing their opinions on direct experience hatrickpatrick.

AudreyHepburn · 19-10-2015 07:56AM

I can see both sides to this to be honest, I think you'd have to have a very narrow minded blinkered view of the world not to.

Of course what happened in the Carrickmines halting site was awful but let's be honest here.... can anyone honestly say they'd want a halting site set up in their area if there was history of trouble with the local traveler community?

I don't know...it's a tough one to call.

Stranger Danger · 19-10-2015 08:05AM

JustTheOne wrote: »

I see Ruth and AAA have jumped on the wagon.

More funding for traveller housing is their
new crusade.

Ruth is great at suggesting ways to spend other people's money.

gandalf · 19-10-2015 08:05AM

AudreyHepburn wrote: »

I can see both sides to this to be honest, I think you'd have to have a very narrow minded blinkered view of the world not to.

Of course what happened in the Carrickmines halting site was awful but let's be honest here.... can anyone honestly say they'd want a halting site set up in their area if there was history of trouble with the local traveler community?

I don't know...it's a tough one to call.

Yes there are two sides to the story and yes it is unfortunate that law abiding members of the travelling community are being tarnished by the ones who don't follow the laws of the land and don't respect the rest of society.

One thing is clear that's not a tough one to call and that is the residents of Rockville Drives opposition to introducing a higher risk or criminality, stress, littering and anti-social behaviour to their community.

SEPT 23 1989 · 19-10-2015 08:08AM

Galwayguy35 wrote: »

Why can't the travellers who are rich pay for their own halting sites and houses?

I don't see why the taxpayer has to always foot the bill, the rest of us have to pay off loans for the houses we live in.

I would love to see what the 40,000 traveller population costs the tax payer per year to keep them in their lifesyle choice and the tax returns from the same

kstand · 19-10-2015 08:09AM

No one has mastered the art of sanctimony quite like Una Mullalley.

http://www.irishtimes.com/opinion/una-mullally-nimbyism-is-the-national-sport-of-south-dublin-1.2396172

Wibbs · 19-10-2015 08:13AM

hatrickpatrick wrote: »

Just imagine living beside an Irish family:
1: They seem to be able to make noise anywhere they go. "Story bud", "What's the craic with ya" "Dafuq are you looking at". Shouting roaring.
2:They sleep all day and they drink all night, yet they claim that they are not wasting their time.
3: They spill out of houses at all hours of the morning coked off their heads and vomiting / pissing in the street.
4: They inject themselves with heroin and then wander around all day like zombie, accosting passers-by and threatening them with syringe-stabbage if they don't hand over cash.
5: Their relations and friends are probably worse than they are and might as well shoot up on the street outside and piss against your car while they visit.
6: They see everything. <-- not sure what to do with this one, dafuq are you even getting at here...?
7:If you had cattle in your house they would be easier to manage.

See what I've done there? I've taken a bunch of different Irish stereotypes and thrown them all together in a list of reasons to be racist against Irish people. Doesn't look so good, does it?

If I had a [insert self identifying group here] living in my area that had already demonstrated such behaviour and they wanted to move said group closer to me and mine, damn right I'd protest and I'd not care a jot if they were black, white, duckity puce.

I've said this several times already but I'll say it again: I'm honestly shocked at how normalised this f*cking abhorrent bigotry is as soon as travellers are involved. Replace travellers with any other demographic and you'd be ashamed of yourself for posting it. You are all following the same very basic assumption which lies at the heart of all of this broken logic, and that is "I've heard of travellers who are criminal scum, therefore every single traveller family and every single halting site is full of criminal scum".

OK, but if I said(and it has been said) for example that "they're all looking for handouts", yes I would be wrong in using the word "all", but I'd not be far wrong when 84% of Travellers are unemployed(86% of the men) and in receipt of social welfare. Would I be wrong in assuming a Traveller I meet is unemployed? Yes, but it wouldn't be an illogical assumption. When Traveller men are eleven times more likely to be in Gaol than background levels and Traveller women are twenty times more likely, again I would be wrong to assume criminality, but again you'd be forgiven for being cautious.

It's absolutely ridiculous and the fact that people here don't see how stupid they're being coming out with this utter sh!te is frightening.

First they came for.....

Sure, all very dramatic an all, but I too would be concerned and concerned for Travellers. Every time Pavee Point and apologists for the modern Traveller "culture" are wheeled out and refuse point blank to admit there are serious internal issues that need fixing from inside the prejudice becomes more and more engrained and the hate builds more and more among the majority. That's what you're seeing here and as I said before it's gotten a helluva lot worse in my lifetime. Something is gonna give and it will ultimately be them who will suffer.

Stranger Danger wrote:

Ruth is great at suggesting ways to spend other people's money.

The left always are. Bugger all clue on how to make money in the first place mind. That kinda leftist types are a lot like children. They believe in fairytales and a big mammy or daddy that will always help them, government, political ideology and the like. The nuts and bolts practicality of adulthood generally escapes them.

VinLieger · 19-10-2015 08:17AM

JustTheOne wrote: »

I see Ruth and AAA have jumped on the wagon.

More funding for traveller housing is their
new crusade.

What industry are we going to nationlise to help pay for this?

Wibbs · 19-10-2015 08:19AM

kstand wrote: »

No one has mastered the art of sanctimony quite like Una Mullalley.

http://www.irishtimes.com/opinion/una-mullally-nimbyism-is-the-national-sport-of-south-dublin-1.2396172

Threw in the usual Dub bashing with it. Then again she's a nuclear powered numpty from way back. I love this "liberal" double-talk; Perhaps, if there is a perception that crime and dubious social behaviours are disproportionate within the Travelling community, we should ask why that is, and see what can be done, if that is indeed the case and not just the perception.

Yea, I hate to break it to in your ivory tower of childish liberalism love, but it is indeed the case statistically and not just the perception.

kstand · 19-10-2015 08:22AM

Wibbs wrote: »

Threw in the usual Dub bashing with it. Then again she's a nuclear powered numpty from way back. I love this "liberal" double-talk; Perhaps, if there is a perception that crime and dubious social behaviours are disproportionate within the Travelling community, we should ask why that is, and see what can be done, if that is indeed the case and not just the perception.

Yea, I hate to break it to in your ivory tower of childish liberalism love, but it is indeed the case statistically and not just the perception.

There are far too many people like her who because they see themselves as part of some minority or other, that they are totally correct in whatever stance they take and will shout louder than anyone armed with that belief. She sickened me there during the gay marriage vote - equating that struggle with the struggle for Irish Freedom in 1916 and the War of Independence in 1921. I find her an incredible pain in the hole to be honest.

newport2 · 19-10-2015 08:52AM

VinLieger wrote: »

What industry are we going to nationlise to help pay for this?

Apple and Google have been earmarked

newport2 · 19-10-2015 08:58AM

Wibbs wrote: »

Threw in the usual Dub bashing with it. Then again she's a nuclear powered numpty from way back. I love this "liberal" double-talk; Perhaps, if there is a perception that crime and dubious social behaviours are disproportionate within the Travelling community, we should ask why that is, and see what can be done, if that is indeed the case and not just the perception.

Yea, I hate to break it to in your ivory tower of childish liberalism love, but it is indeed the case statistically and not just the perception.

Yes, phrased as if all other areas other than South Dublin were ready to welcome halting sites on their road with open arms. I don't like seeing people turned away because of behaviour they are associated with, but I know if it was my road the council were putting them on I'd be opposed to it. Just like 99% of the population would, including those like Mullally wagging her finger at the rest of us now.

colm_mcm · 19-10-2015 09:00AM

I still don't know how it's going to take 8 months to do up the houses in Glendruid. Fair enough they need complete rewiring and replumbing (odd for such new houses), and some structural work,
but if you take into account the money they're probably already paying the workers who can't get in to the new greenfield site, the cost of providing new electricity, fresh water and sewage, and new temporary accommodation buildings, groundwork, tarmaccing etc plus the possible clean up operation afterwards - I can't see how instead they don't just pull the finger out and get a team on the job in Glendruid around the clock and get it done. If this is an emergency.

BattleCorp · 19-10-2015 09:02AM

colm_mcm wrote: »

I still don't know how it's going to take 8 months to do up the houses in Glendruid. Fair enough they need complete rewiring and replumbing (odd for such new houses), and some structural work,
but if you take into account the money they're probably already paying the workers who can't get in to the new greenfield site, the cost of providing new electricity, fresh water and sewage, and new temporary accommodation buildings, groundwork, tarmaccing etc plus the possible clean up operation afterwards - I can't see how instead they don't just pull the finger out and get a team on the job in Glendruid around the clock and get it done. If this is an emergency.

Would the council go to such measures if my house burned down? Do they do that for other non-traveller tenants?

gandalf · 19-10-2015 09:04AM

colm_mcm wrote: »

I still don't know how it's going to take 8 months to do up the houses in Glendruid. Fair enough they need complete rewiring and replumbing (odd for such new houses), and some structural work,
but if you take into account the money they're probably already paying the workers who can't get in to the new greenfield site, the cost of providing new electricity, fresh water and sewage, and new temporary accommodation buildings, groundwork, tarmaccing etc plus the possible clean up operation afterwards - I can't see how instead they don't just pull the finger out and get a team on the job in Glendruid around the clock and get it done. If this is an emergency.

I have a sneaking suspicion that it gives the council another footprint for a more permanent settlement.

If the residents give it, next time an emergency arises or DLR want to create a new halting site there is a precedent of this location being used and they have less of a leg to stand on.

Better to resist bitterly now before the beachhead is established.

Logically it makes far more sense to put the effort into sorting out the permanent site rather than waste resources on a temporary site and a permanent site.

Tipsy McSwagger · 19-10-2015 09:06AM

Isn't it great that a group of residents have come together to protect their community from a group of people who who have no respect for the law and their fellow man. I applaud the residents of Rockville for taking a stand and most of the country stands with them.

colm_mcm · 19-10-2015 09:10AM

BattleCorp wrote: »

Would the council go to such measures if my house burned down? Do they do that for other non-traveller tenants?

Of course not. In either case they're doing more than they would do for me if my house burnt down (ie. Nothing)
I know there is an emergency procedure, but this appears to have been bypassed. I dint think we need to get into the whole conversation about the circumstances again.

Al I'm saying is this appears to be the most complicated and inefficient way to do things.

SEPT 23 1989 · 19-10-2015 09:20AM

BattleCorp wrote: »

Would the council go to such measures if my house burned down? Do they do that for other non-traveller tenants?

If your house burned down all you would get from the state would be a bill for the fire brigade call out

CruelCoin · 19-10-2015 09:47AM

Honest question:

Why don't they just removed the destroyed/damaged units and replace them with new on the existing site? Why does the entire lot need to be moved?

whatismyname · 19-10-2015 09:48AM

CruelCoin wrote: »

Honest question:

Why don't they just removed the destroyed/damaged units and replace them with new on the existing site? Why does the entire lot need to be moved?

What, so that the family could live on the halting site which had the fire...?

Penn · 19-10-2015 09:56AM

CruelCoin wrote: »

Honest question:

Why don't they just removed the destroyed/damaged units and replace them with new on the existing site? Why does the entire lot need to be moved?

The real question is that if the new halting site to be built is going to take at least 6 months of construction, how come this proposed temporary site at Rockville is suitable? Surely whatever works need to take place to the new site (drainage, electricity etc) would also be required at the temporary site?

The Corinthian · 19-10-2015 09:56AM

whatismyname wrote: »

What, so that the family could live on the halting site which had the fire...?

It was good enough for the Winsors...

whatismyname · 19-10-2015 10:00AM

The Corinthian wrote: »

It was good enough for the Winsors...

oh yeah, that time 10 of their family burned to death in the fire. Forgot about that.

BattleCorp · 19-10-2015 10:00AM

whatismyname wrote: »

What, so that the family could live on the halting site which had the fire...?

So, if there is ever a fatal fire, a house should never ever be rebuilt and lived in..........is that what you are saying?

whatismyname · 19-10-2015 10:01AM

BattleCorp wrote: »

So, if there is ever a fatal fire, a house should never ever be rebuilt and lived in..........is that what you are saying?

Not in the slightest is that what I'm saying.

The Corinthian · 19-10-2015 10:02AM

whatismyname wrote: »

oh yeah, that time 10 of their family burned to death in the fire. Forgot about that.

Thing is, and it's already been mooted here, were it a settled family nothing would be provided, even if family members had died in the fire. So it's good enough for a settled family, but Travellers get special treatment... how come?

Bebopclown · 19-10-2015 10:02AM

Do we know what caused the fire yet?

BattleCorp · 19-10-2015 10:03AM

whatismyname wrote: »

Not in the slightest is that what I'm saying.

Honest question. If you were in charge, what would be your solution to this problem?

keano_afc · 19-10-2015 10:13AM

Bebopclown wrote: »

Do we know what caused the fire yet?

I dont think we'll ever have that information released into the public domain. I was talking to someone who lives just off the Glenamuck road and and lets just say it wouldnt help the outpouring of sympathy towards the Traveller families.

BattleCorp · 19-10-2015 10:20AM

keano_afc wrote: »

I dont think we'll ever have that information released into the public domain. I was talking to someone who lives just off the Glenamuck road and and lets just say it wouldnt help the outpouring of sympathy towards the Traveller families.

Am I to take from that statement that the travellers were to blame for the fire themselves?

Residents object to temporary halting site

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