Residents object to temporary halting site

JustTheOne · 18-10-2015 02:49PM

mucksavage1985 wrote: »

a big problem too is the unregulated system of door to door selling. A lot of travellers call around selling tools ( most likely stolen) turf and cutlery sets. There should be a registration system for this. An official ID systems put into place also. This ID should Have a barcode that can be scanned in an app that would say whether the person was legit or not. If this is not used it should be classed as illegal! It would stop a lot of opportunistic thieves.

quote="brooke 2;97418854"]Bearing in mind

what happened to the Corcoran
Family in Tipperary, and the massive turnout at
the recent meeting there to discuss rural crime, I
imagine his opinion was based on the experiences of many of his own rural constituents. I even heard the RTE journalist, who was reporting to Drivetime about the Tipperary meeting, almost apologetically tell Mary Wilson that feelings against the traveller community was very strong, as they were the perpetrators of most of the crimes, in the opinion of the majority.

[/quote]

Car boot sales and markets too.

icebergiceberg · 18-10-2015 02:51PM

mucksavage1985 wrote: »

Listen, the media only report a certain amount. The local people know the ins and outs of what was going on. Paper never refuses ink. It has been very quiet on what actually caused the fire. by the way have a look at the site on Google maps. The state of it. The race track out the back. The residents are not protesting without good reason!!

Very quiet indeed. I heard Electric Ireland (ESB?) or whomever were there immediately to deal with that aspect of things but that would be standard practice in the event of any fire I would imagine.
I heard on the radio that there may have been a spark from some kind of open fire but I am not sure. I would however be interested in hearing what Electric Ireland have to say from their examination of the scene.
I do recall some years ago the ESB (I think) refusing to go into a site (I don't know where but somewhere in Dublin) to deal with issues, alleged tampering of their property. I can not provide a link-you might as well as me to fly to the moon as do that. The Mail covered it I think and Brenda Power wrote an article about it or around it. So the report on its cause may be inconclusive but interesting nevertheless.

mucksavage1985 · 18-10-2015 02:58PM

Yes good idea too. It would also show they are tax compliant. Coming up to the election I will say this to candidates. The current problem with robberies needs to be fought both ways. Get the scum doing the robberies and cut out the selling methods

quote="JustTheOne;97419090"][/quote]

Car boot sales and markets too.[/quote]

mucksavage1985 · 18-10-2015 03:08PM

Yes good idea too. It would also show they are tax compliant. Coming up to the election I will say this to candidates. The current problem with robberies needs to be fought both ways. Get the scum doing the robberies and cut out the selling methods

quote="JustTheOne;97419090"][/quote]

Car boot sales and markets too.[/quote]

Calahonda52 · 18-10-2015 03:09PM

sorta_happy wrote: »

i did not say it was

im saying that those who wish to see travelers given ethnic minority status , will criminalise critcisim of traveler culture if that drive is realised

by labeling those who ask hard questions of traveler culture as racists , they are effectively pre empting that travelers will eventually be classed as a protected ethnic minority

do you not listen to the tone of the commentary from the labour party , the irish times , vincent browne

its soviet style censorship , talk of re-educating people , desire to over local goverment and the law when it comes to travelers , its not like they are hiding it

Same as the recent referendum, if you even thought to Vote No you were branded a racists etc.
Same double standard with the drive to criminalise paying for sex but not decriminalising prostitution: sold on the basis of stopping trafficking.

It they want to stop paying for sex just make compulsory the registration of mobile phone numbers and shut down all the numbers listed on sites such as
www.cur isteach.gee

Same for all those cash for cars signs.
FCC has spent 500,000 removing them over 3 years

icebergiceberg · 18-10-2015 03:15PM

whatismyname wrote: »

Yep, as in I agreed and empathised with you having these questions. Nothing more. I clearly made no attempt to answer said questions, or I would have actually done so.

If you had direct knowledge it would be useful to share it in order to clarify things as there seems to be lot of pussy footing around the place. I don't have any direct knowledge of the area and so am trying to piece together different opinions. But it's your right not to and that is fair enough.

On another note, I saw Enda Kenny on the news (without even so much as a bunch of flowers in his hand) visiting the site and wonder did he feel any guilt at all about any of this? It was, after all a 9 or 10 year old temporay halting site without fire bricks between the cabins.

Calahonda52 · 18-10-2015 03:19PM

sorta_happy wrote: »

i did not say it was

im saying that those who wish to see travelers given ethnic minority status , will criminalise critcisim of traveler culture if that drive is realised

by labeling those who ask hard questions of traveler culture as racists , they are effectively pre empting that travelers will eventually be classed as a protected ethnic minority

do you not listen to the tone of the commentary from the labour party , the irish times , vincent browne

its soviet style censorship , talk of re-educating people , desire to over local goverment and the law when it comes to travelers , its not like they are hiding it

Same as the recent referendum, if you even thought to Vote No you were branded a racists etc.
Same double standard with the drive to criminalise paying for sex but not decriminalising prostitution: sold on the basis of stopping trafficking.

It they want to stop paying for sex just make compulsory the registration of mobile phone numbers and shut down all the numbers listed on sites such as
www.cur isteach.gee

Same for all those cash for cars signs.
FCC has spent 500,000 removing them over 3 years

foggy_lad · 18-10-2015 03:40PM

Wibbs wrote: »

How many "politicians or foreigners" rock up to a green field en masse and cause mountains of refuse and filth and damage to sites? Look how many parks in Dublin anyway where the councils had to erect low walls to stop them invading every summer and wrecking the place. One such site near Tallaght a few years back require expenditure of a couple of hundred thousand euro to clean it up. They showed up in my area a few years back and destroyed the place and burglaries and petty crime rose appreciably with local Gardai advising the locals(on the quiet for fear of the hand wringers) to be vigilant and up security and keep an eye on your dogs. Oh and how many "politicians or foreigners" have murderous feuds lasting years and actual pitched bloody battles in the streets of Ireland? That would be eff all Ted.

Hmmm we have more systems in place now than ever before, yet the criminality isn't abating, if anything it's increasing and becoming ever more blatant.

Where I live the council had to place large barriers and wooden posts along the footpath set deep into concrete and also massive concrete blocks down the centre of the road to stop travellers parking up along the road into our estate. They got in here a few years back and destroyed the place and only left after a few of them were arrested for theft of items including copper hot water tanks from partially built houses nearby.

They left a mountain of waste behind them but were stopped when they lit a fire to burn off the copper as some residents called the Gardai and Fire Brigade who promptly flooded the site with millions of litres of water from the nearby river:D

CatFromHue wrote: »

Well I think getting rid of the Dundon's was a pretty good thing for Limerick Ireland/Society.

An Claidheamh wrote: »

I'm actually surprised by the lack of sound bites on this issue from the Colm O'Gorman Amnesty Ireland and Progressive Democrats or that incompetent Mountjoy warden John Lonergan or any of the millionaire Labour socialists.

And then I realised .......... that they're most likely TERRIFIED of being asked to provide THEIR mansion and lands (literally in O'Gorman's and Browne's case), in order to house their trailers.

Seriously, there has barely been a peep.

These travellers are not Egyptian or locked away in a foreign jail for supporting terrorists so neither amnasty nor colm O'Gormless will get involved!

digzy wrote: »

Just heard Alex white on Marion finucane there. I wonder if those castigating the residents such as Alan Kelly, joe Duffy etc would maintain their current position if a local authority decided to railroad through a halting site beside where they live.

If we're being honest the vast majority don't wanna see a halting site in close proximity to their homes due to what manifests itself as traveller 'culture'. The minority who would like to see a halting site close to their homes are bluffers or extremely naive.

What's wrong with the poor innocent now? did the residents firebomb his office or throw a bucket of sh1te at him?

Seriously that Fookin creep of a TD has to step down but only after he calls to each and every house in that place and apologises profusely to every resident! What an absolute C**t of a man to call those poor residents racists and bigots.

sorta_happy · 18-10-2015 03:50PM

foggy_lad wrote: »

Where I live the council had to place large barriers and wooden posts along the footpath set deep into concrete and also massive concrete blocks down the centre of the road to stop travellers parking up along the road into our estate. They got in here a few years back and destroyed the place and only left after a few of them were arrested for theft of items including copper hot water tanks from partially built houses nearby.

They left a mountain of waste behind them but were stopped when they lit a fire to burn off the copper as some residents called the Gardai and Fire Brigade who promptly flooded the site with millions of litres of water from the nearby river:D

These travellers are not Egyptian or locked away in a foreign jail for supporting terrorists so neither amnasty nor colm O'Gormless will get involved!

What's wrong with the poor innocent now? did the residents firebomb his office or throw a bucket of sh1te at him?

Seriously that Fookin creep of a TD has to step down but only after he calls to each and every house in that place and apologises profusely to every resident! What an absolute C**t of a man to call those poor residents racists and bigots.

colm o gorman has been quite vocal in his support for traveler ethnic recognition

o gorman is as predictable as a wet irish summer when it comes to predicting which causes he will get behind

if its a PC liberal sacred cow cause , he is always there with the cliched platitudes

anewme · 18-10-2015 04:45PM

mucksavage1985 wrote: »

Just imagine living beside a halting site:
1: they seem to be able to make noise anywhere they got go. Hulla hulls hulla boss. Any copper boss. Shouting roaring.
2: they light fires ( burning pvc off copper wires which can cause fires to spread) anyone else would get fined for burning illegally.
3. They litter every where. They don't believe in paying for a bin service. They dump at will anywhere.
4. They can be very bullish and forceful. Poor elderly people are living in fear of them
5. Their relations and friends are probably worse than they are and might as well rob while they visit.
6. They see everything. It comes as a skill because they do f.ck all else
7. If you had cattle in your house they would be easier manage.

I hope that the residents don't back down. I live close to a halting site. Never had problems until it was built. They are unruly animals. I pity anyone that is inflicted with their presence.

When I read this post first I laughed to myself. Just the way it was written. It was so un-pc to use the correct term. It's kind of like the emperors new clothes. It's just so true. Anyone who has had to live near travellers will identify with each bullet point.

Then having read more of muck savages posts, it's clear there is a person driven to desperation by what they are experiencing. My heart goes out to you.

That situation in Ballymoate, the Government are a disgrace for letting people down like that. How many other ballymoates are there?

I also got the impression there could be some journalists fishing in here originally but maybe I'm just being a bit suspicious.

In relation to travellers in general it's clear there are a lot of ruthless criminal gangs(think Tipperary incident) and they are behind the majority of attacks on elderly people in rural Ireland. My own father was swindled out of money by them. my friend noticed 2 travellers lurking round her driveway (she lives in a country village)and later when they were gone, so was her little dog, thankfully she got him back as he turned up at ballinasloe horse fair.

I also think there are a lot of normal families in the travelling community who would also be too afraid to speak out for fear of reprisals also. So they just put up with it too.

mucksavage1985 · 18-10-2015 04:51PM

Thanks for the back up! If anyone is in any doubt about halting sites ask the gardai about what they have to deal with when it comes to them. I'd hate the job of having to even speak to them. It would be like talking to an Arse hole telling it not to sh.te again when you know that all it can do is sh.te!

anewme wrote: »

When I read this post first I laughed to myself. Just the way it was written. It was so un-pc to use the correct term. It's kind of like the emperors new clothes. It's just so true. Anyone who has had to live near travellers will identify with each bullet point.

Then having read more of muck savages posts, it's clear there is a person driven to desperation by what they are experiencing. My heart goes out to you.

That situation in Ballymoate, the Government are a disgrace for letting people down like that. How many other ballymoates are there?

I also the impression there could be some journalists fishing here but maybe I'm just being a bit suspicious.

In relation to travellers in general it's clear there are a lot of ruthless criminal gangs(think Tipperary incident) and they are behind the majority of attacks on elderly people in rural Ireland. My own father was swindled out of money by them. my friend noticed 2 travellers lurking round her driveway (she lives in a country village)and later when they were gone, so was her little dog, thankfully she got him back as he turned up at ballinasloe horse fair.

I also think there are a lot of normal families in the travelling community who would also be too afraid to speak out for fear of reprisals also. So they just put up with it too.

end of the road · 18-10-2015 05:17PM

gandalf wrote: »

No they are acting based on their experience with halting site based travellers locally and from contributors experiences here and as recorded in numerous new outlets it is not a unique experience.

These sites ferment anti-social behaviour, criminal activity and abuse of the environment. Of course these residents are absolutely correct to object from bringing this risk into their cul-de-sac.

If the council try and force this through they will be opening a far bigger can of worms.

No the Traveller Community need to take steps to deal with the issues highlighted! It is totally on message to try and blame everybody else and not take responsibility for their own issues.

Based on our experience I highly doubt it. In this country once the quango is up and running the tap seems to run no matter what the deliverables are.

Again I doubt it very much.

Yes they are getting special treatment. Providing special accommodation is proof of this. They want equality, better equality than the rest of us.

This tradition is no longer compatible with society today. It is also cheating it's members of good eduction, job prospects, it fosters criminality and lack of respect for the wider community and environment.

As a society there is no way we should be promoting this way of life. The time has come to re-evaluate and amend the way we fund this so called traveller accommodation.

no, its because its travelers. they can object to the site being developed via the proper objection channels. blocking a council site preventing the council from legally using it should mean the council no longer engaging with them as they cannot be trusted to behave. they are not entitled to stop the council from legally using its land. no the country as a whole need to stop using the issues of some to tar a whole group with the same brush just because they can get away with it when they wouldn't dare do it to another group. the travelers don't get special treatment, those still taking part in the nomadic traditions are being catered for. the tradition not being compatible with society means nothing, it doesn't actually matter. its not cheeting anyone of jobs, the employers discriminating are. with the way some of the wider community treat travelers, its no surprise it doesn't get respect, those who discriminate against travelers don't deserve one jot of respect. nobody is promoting any way of life, the funding given to the traveling community to help those wishing to integrate must continue.

icebergiceberg wrote: »

It was a direct question but you did not give a direct answer.

Why not answer?

because its none of your business

JustTheOne wrote: »

Anyone genuinely know if cab or revenue have ever investigated the earnings of some travellers?

Revenue are so strict when it comes to non travellers people. I would like to think its the same.

they have. cab and revenue treat nobody any different whoever they are

mucksavage1985 wrote: »

Listen, the media only report a certain amount. The local people know the ins and outs of what was going on.

which was nothing. nothing was going on

mucksavage1985 wrote: »

The residents are not protesting without good reason!!

they are protesting without good reason

sorta_happy wrote: »

RTE is ran by PC idealogues , as is the irish times

no they aren't. pc doesn't exist.

anewme wrote: »

It was so un-pc to use the correct term.

pc is a myth. made up by those who's views and ideals no longer have any basis or place anywhere.

anewme · 18-10-2015 05:40PM

:oy

end of the road wrote: »

no, its because its travelers. they can object to the site being developed via the proper objection channels. blocking a council site preventing the council from legally using it should mean the council no longer engaging with them as they cannot be trusted to behave. they are not entitled to stop the council from legally using its land. no the country as a whole need to stop using the issues of some to tar a whole group with the same brush just because they can get away with it when they wouldn't dare do it to another group. the travelers don't get special treatment, those still taking part in the nomadic traditions are being catered for. the tradition not being compatible with society means nothing, it doesn't actually matter. its not cheeting anyone of jobs, the employers discriminating are. with the way some of the wider community treat travelers, its no surprise it doesn't get respect, those who discriminate against travelers don't deserve one jot of respect. nobody is promoting any way of life, the funding given to the traveling community to help those wishing to integrate must continue.

because its none of your business

they have. cab and revenue treat nobody any different whoever they are

which was nothing. nothing was going on

they are protesting without good reason

no they aren't. pc doesn't exist.

pc is a myth. made up by those who's views and ideals no longer have any basis or place anywhere.

I don't know where you have been living but it must be great if you've not seen any of what the rest of us have.

Nobody is saying all travellers are bad, that is most certainly not the case but I see unwillingness to accept and sort out any bad behaviour when it happems and this is what I would worry about.

Do you also think the residents in Ballymoate need ghostbusters instead of some action from the government.?

I 100 percent support the residents here as to how this was handled and will be writing to my to tomorrow to let them know that. The government playing games with people's lives and using those residents to make themselves look good. It's really not fair.

Witnesses have said here that one of those families give trouble and have in the past. If that is true and we don't know if it is or not why should the residents sign up to that. If I heard there was a settled family with a history of anti social behaviour coming to my road then I'd object also to the council.

House prices are one thing, your health, safety and sanity far outweigh that.

We've gone a bit far away from the original topic that is were the residents right and I think in thus case, their concerns are justified and the council and govt. handled it very badly

Azalea · 18-10-2015 05:45PM

Anyone see the spread about the refugees on the Sunday Times today? Horrific. It also drove home further to me the dishonesty of comparing the travellers in this case to the refugees fleeing across Europe. The fire was an horrific tragedy and I hope the survivors whose home was destroyed get the shelter they need ASAP - but they will get help, there is plenty of support for them. Those refugees are sleeping in fields and on side roads, with their children. I'm not saying "Let's let them all in" because we don't have the resources to do that (I hope we can let some in though) but all I'm saying is the two groups of people aren't actually that comparable.

Wibbs · 18-10-2015 05:45PM

anewme wrote: »

I also think there are a lot of normal families in the travelling community who would also be too afraid to speak out for fear of reprisals also. So they just put up with it too.

From what I've gathered from folks I knew whose forebears had been travellers this was a major issue. Those settled ones, in other words ordinary people, would also often get stick from those still "on the road".

end of the road wrote: »

no, its because its travelers. they can object to the site being developed via the proper objection channels. blocking a council site preventing the council from legally using it should mean the council no longer engaging with them as they cannot be trusted to behave.

And many a Traveller site is the same yet…

the travelers don't get special treatment, those still taking part in the nomadic traditions are being catered for. the tradition not being compatible with society means nothing, it doesn't actually matter.

Oh man you're a great laugh altogether.

because its none of your business

more likely it's because nails were hit squarely on the head. I have in my time met similar leftist utopian up the workers types and to a man and woman they were living on either mammy and daddy's money or the state's.

cab and revenue treat nobody any different whoever they are

Hahahahahhaha… oh wait you're serious? Actually the problem isn't with revenue, the problem revenue has is tracking individuals of a migratory nature. That "nomadic tradition" you speak of.

they are protesting without good reason

I have found people are inherently lazy and are inherently non engagers on average. Something that gets people out to protest, especially in the face of the law of the land usually means something is up and very strongly felt.

pc doesn't exist. pc is a myth.

Hahahhahahahhaha. Oh god the comedy keeps on coming.

made up by those who's views and ideals no longer have any basis or place anywhere.

Only the right sort of views are allowed now you know.

icebergiceberg · 18-10-2015 05:56PM

end of the road wrote: »

no, its because its travelers. they can object to the site being developed via the proper objection channels. blocking a council site preventing the council from legally using it should mean the council no longer engaging with them as they cannot be trusted to behave. they are not entitled to stop the council from legally using its land. no the country as a whole need to stop using the issues of some to tar a whole group with the same brush just because they can get away with it when they wouldn't dare do it to another group. the travelers don't get special treatment, those still taking part in the nomadic traditions are being catered for. the tradition not being compatible with society means nothing, it doesn't actually matter. its not cheeting anyone of jobs, the employers discriminating are. with the way some of the wider community treat travelers, its no surprise it doesn't get respect, those who discriminate against travelers don't deserve one jot of respect. nobody is promoting any way of life, the funding given to the traveling community to help those wishing to integrate must continue.

because its none of your business

they have. cab and revenue treat nobody any different whoever they are

which was nothing. nothing was going on

they are protesting without good reason

no they aren't. pc doesn't exist.

pc is a myth. made up by those who's views and ideals no longer have any basis or place anywhere.

When you post, it becomes everybody's business.

Spanish Eyes · 18-10-2015 06:06PM

There is a quare agenda going on in certain circles. And I just cannot fathom why that is.

Take the media and commentators for example. Did anyone decry any of the Travellers? Did any of them empathise with settled folk who have to deal with traveller encampents? Did they hell.

What they don't realise is, the people who actually go out and vote are in general Non Travellers. So do you think they will support anyone who advocates a free for all, and uses racism as a stick to beat people with? Not on yer life.

Every man/woman's home is his/her castle. When a hard paid for house is threatened with a halting site, to a man/woman there will be vociferous objections.

I wish the politicians and the media would for once, take the views of the majority into consideration. They don't. Kitty Holland wants an overarching quango to sort all this out, over the heads of the council and everyone else. You just couldn't make it up.

Does any politician in this country realise that votes are to be gained big time by standing up for the ordinary citizen who is fearful of Travellers in their area, or fearful of traveller associated crime in general if a halting site is at the end of their road?

I just don't get why the ordinary non traveller tax paying law abiding citizen is being totally ignored in all this. Does anyone have an explanation?

The Traveller Rights groups and liberal lefties seem to have a steam rolling agenda here to brand anyone with an opposing view as bigoted and racist. That is not right, and quite frankly, if one uses the words racist and bigot, the argument is lost. Because that is not what the objections are.

They are the vocalisations of those in fear. That fear has not abated despite hundreds of millions poured into Pavee Point and the like. Why is that?

Anyway, if Aodhan O'Riordain, and Alan Kelly don't shut their gobs up, and listen to their REAL constituents, they are toast.

The agenda to make Travellers a separate ethnic group is sinister. They are not, and never will be, but to some it will mean the rest of us cannot open our gobs about it at all.

Where and when did Travellers get such power over the rest of us?

I just wonder what the hell is going on here.

Wibbs · 18-10-2015 06:14PM

Spanish Eyes wrote: »

Take the media and commentators for example. Did anyone decry any of the Travellers? Did any of them empathise with settled folk who have to deal with traveller encampents? Did they hell.

What they don't realise is, the people who actually go out and vote are in general Non Travellers. So do you think they will support anyone who advocates a free for all, and uses racism as a stick to beat people with? Not on yer life.

Oh my worry is that there could be a major backlash coming down the pike against liberal values and I mean actual sensible liberal values, not student right on PC nonsense. People are getting a little angrier and not just about travellers, the migrant crisis is revving people up too. Look at opinion polls in Germany and France and the UK and Italy, Spain, Greece... and how they're getting more anti, more right wing, even since the initial sympathy. Populist hardliners could gain more ground and this is not a good thing. Hopefully some balance asserts itself. Ireland I worry about less, the "national character" isn't particularly reactionary, we're traditionally a culture of "meh".

hatrickpatrick · 18-10-2015 06:17PM

anewme wrote: »

Nobody is saying all travellers are bad

No, they're saying that it's acceptable to assume that any individual travellers who may move in to X site are probably[/b] bad and therefore that it's ok to object to traveller accommodation on those grounds.

There's a word for that, it's called "profiling". If a sentence would become unacceptable if the word "traveller" was replaced with another demographic group, "black, Arabic, gay, student, Polish" for example, then it's unacceptable full stop. Double standards are not ok. If demographic profiling and generalising are wrong, then they're wrong - end of story.

In other words, it's simply not ok to say "some travellers are bad, therefore any travellers who might move in might be bad, therefore I don't want them living near me". It's no more ok than to say "some men are rapists, therefore any man who might move in might be a rapist, therefore I don't want men living near me". It's profiling, it's bigoted, it's unjustified and it's downright nasty. And the fact that people seem to think that bigotry against travellers as a demographic group is exempt from the social unacceptability of bigotry is fairly alarming. As I said earlier in the thread, I've seen people who campaign passionately for gay rights, an end to racial discrimination and an end to sectarianism still make sweeping generalisations about travellers. It's that normalised in our society, and that's f*cking appalling.

gandalf · 18-10-2015 06:17PM

end of the road wrote: »

no, its because its travelers.

No its because of the baggage that these travellers bring with them. The residents have already stated that the site is known for anti-social behaviour.

they can object to the site being developed via the proper objection channels.

And again no they can't because the council are by passing the normal planning mechanism. You seem to be unable to grasp this concept?

blocking a council site preventing the council from legally using it should mean the council no longer engaging with them as they cannot be trusted to behave. they are not entitled to stop the council from legally using its land.

And given the councils record on "temporary" halting sites we already know they can't be trusted either.

They are perfectly entitled to protest this unjust decision on the grounds of public order and that the site has unsuitable access for the purpose.

no the country as a whole need to stop using the issues of some to tar a whole group with the same brush just because they can get away with it when they wouldn't dare do it to another group.

No a lot of people do not feel comfortable with the Travelling community because their are quite demonstrable levels of criminality within it and that community is not willing to tackle it and to demonstrate to society in general that they are capable of being good citizens.

the travelers don't get special treatment, those still taking part in the nomadic traditions are being catered for.

Yes they do, they get multiple millions of euro pumped into their organisations by the state and have traveller specific accommodation and special staff within all the councils dealing with them.

the tradition not being compatible with society means nothing, it doesn't actually matter.

You are totally wrong. It does matter and it should matter going forward. If Travellers want to continue their traditional lifestyle then the taxpayer shouldn't be expected to fund it any longer.

its not cheeting anyone of jobs, the employers discriminating are.

Yes it is. It is cheating an awful lot of other services that could benefit the whole community of revenue. As stated if all the revenue wasted on Travellers was diverted to the Gardai then the current crime wave in Rural Ireland could be dealt with.

with the way some of the wider community treat travelers, its no surprise it doesn't get respect, those who discriminate against travelers don't deserve one jot of respect.

Despite them sponging off the wider communities taxes. Charming.

nobody is promoting any way of life, the funding given to the traveling community to help those wishing to integrate must continue.

Yes by providing halting sites we are promoting this way of life. This has to really stop. The one positive out of DLR's action against the residents of Rockville Drive is that it has made us all examine the waste of resource that is being ploughed into so called Traveller organisations and specific accomodation.

walshyn93 · 18-10-2015 06:21PM

Wibbs wrote: »

Oh my worry is that there could be a major backlash coming down the pike against liberal values and I mean actual sensible liberal values, not student right on PC nonsense. People are getting a little angrier and not just about travellers, the migrant crisis is revving people up too. Look at opinion polls in Germany and France and the UK and Italy, Spain, Greece... and how they're getting more anti, more right wing, even since the initial sympathy. Populist hardliners could gain more ground and this is not a good thing. Hopefully some balance asserts itself. Ireland I worry about less, the "national character" isn't particularly reactionary, we're traditionally a culture of "meh".

Nah, there's no backlash against sensible liberal values coming. But pc nonsense is due a big kick in the ass.

Spanish Eyes · 18-10-2015 06:24PM

Wibbs wrote: »

Oh my worry is that there could be a major backlash coming down the pike against liberal values and I mean actual sensible liberal values, not student right on PC nonsense. People are getting a little angrier and not just about travellers, the migrant crisis is revving people up too. Look at opinion polls in Germany and France and the UK and Italy, Spain, Greece... and how they're getting more anti, more right wing, even since the initial sympathy. Populist hardliners could gain more ground and this is not a good thing. Hopefully some balance asserts itself. Ireland I worry about less, the "national character" isn't particularly reactionary, we're traditionally a culture of "meh".

The rise of the Hard Right is coming in Europe. Not that I welcome that at all, but the Liberal Lefties are just making it happen. Then people like Marine le Pen don't have to say a word at all, just let it go on and the votes fall into her lap.

The utopia of everyone loving everyone else is not working. Neither is the deification of those minorities who cause havoc for everyone else.

It's a perfect storm.

And there may be trouble ahead!

Spanish Eyes · 18-10-2015 06:26PM

walshyn93 wrote: »

Nah, there's no backlash against sensible liberal values coming. But pc nonsense is due a big kick in the ass.

I wonder what the definition of "sensible liberal values" is for the majority of people?

Sounds to me like " do as I say, not what I do"

Azalea · 18-10-2015 06:29PM

Spanish Eyes wrote: »

I wonder what the definition of "sensible liberal values" is for the majority of people?

Not being opposed to immigration but being aware there have to be limits.

Not being in favour of the death penalty and state violence, and being aware people's behaviour can be shaped by their upbringings, but still being in favour of punishment for violent criminals via long prison sentences.

Supporting state benefits but being aware some people take the piss.

Etc.

Centrist/centre-left positions basically.

Spanish Eyes · 18-10-2015 06:38PM

Azalea wrote: »

Not being opposed to immigration but being aware there have to be limits.

Not being in favour of the death penalty and state violence, and being aware people's behaviour can be shaped by their upbringings, but still being in favour of punishment for violent criminals via long prison sentences.

Supporting state benefits but being aware some people take the piss.

Etc.

Centrist/centre-left positions basically.

So where are the political parties in this country who are espousing these wonderfully sensible virtues?

I must have missed that somewhere along the line!

Seems to me that every political stance is for either the Travellers, the ne'er do wells, criminals, DSP recipients, and all the rest of it because otherwise one is RACIST. Did you hear that? Racist (or bigot) there's another word in the armoury. lol.

I am totally sick of it now. Toe the line or else according to everything I am reading and seeing in the media. My God.

18-10-2015 06:44PM

end of the road wrote: »

no, its because its travelers. they can object to the site being developed via the proper objection channels. blocking a council site preventing the council from legally using it should mean the council no longer engaging with them as they cannot be trusted to behave. they are not entitled to stop the council from legally using its land. no the country as a whole need to stop using the issues of some to tar a whole group with the same brush just because they can get away with it when they wouldn't dare do it to another group. the travelers don't get special treatment, those still taking part in the nomadic traditions are being catered for.

They are going to be permanently housed in a halting site, which comprises of houses and a couple of parking bays.
Why do they get special treatment, why are they being moved from emergency accommodation to a field until their new place is ready?
If my home burnt down tomorrow I doubt the council would put me up in a fancy dalkey residence just because I want to live there!

Spanish Eyes · 18-10-2015 06:52PM

Wibbs wrote: »

Oh my worry is that there could be a major backlash coming down the pike against liberal values and I mean actual sensible liberal values, not student right on PC nonsense. People are getting a little angrier and not just about travellers, the migrant crisis is revving people up too. Look at opinion polls in Germany and France and the UK and Italy, Spain, Greece... and how they're getting more anti, more right wing, even since the initial sympathy. Populist hardliners could gain more ground and this is not a good thing. Hopefully some balance asserts itself. Ireland I worry about less, the "national character" isn't particularly reactionary, we're traditionally a culture of "meh".

Indeed we are easygoing, and do the shrug and "meh" thing often.

Until one reacts because of a potential issue in one's own backyard that is. And I don't blame them at all. I would be the same myself hand on heart.

That is the reality. Great people us Irish, but like the "Field" it's instinctive to want to mind and keep your patch safe from invasion.

Anyone who says otherwise is either -

1. living abroad
2. living with parents (no traveller site within 50 k)
3. renting alone/with partner (no traveller site within 50k)
4. house sharing (no traveller site within 50K)
5. Owns (mortgage included) in a house where the council doesn't own any site within spitting distance. Happy days
6. Is a Traveller.

Woops. I think I might be in trouble now.

Azalea · 18-10-2015 07:05PM

Spanish Eyes wrote: »

So where are the political parties in this country who are espousing these wonderfully sensible virtues?

I must have missed that somewhere along the line!

Seems to me that every political stance is for either the Travellers, the ne'er do wells, criminals, DSP recipients, and all the rest of it because otherwise one is RACIST. Did you hear that? Racist (or bigot) there's another word in the armoury. lol.

I am totally sick of it now. Toe the line or else according to everything I am reading and seeing in the media. My God.

I don't know, was just giving my opinion of what "sensible liberal values" means.

I don't think politicians and the media are standing up for criminals, to be fair. Nobody's gonna call anyone a racist or bigot for criticising criminals. DSP recipients - presume you just mean the sponging ones.

Wibbs · 18-10-2015 07:05PM

hatrickpatrick wrote: »

As I said earlier in the thread, I've seen people who campaign passionately for gay rights, an end to racial discrimination and an end to sectarianism still make sweeping generalisations about travellers. It's that normalised in our society, and that's f*cking appalling.

I agree HP, however why is it so normalised? It didn't spring from nowhere and in my lifetime it's gotten much much worse.

anewme · 18-10-2015 07:11PM

hatrickpatrick wrote: »

No, they're saying that it's acceptable to assume that any individual travellers who may move in to X site are probably[/b] bad and therefore that it's ok to object to traveller accommodation on those grounds.

There's a word for that, it's called "profiling". If a sentence would become unacceptable if the word "traveller" was replaced with another demographic group, "black, Arabic, gay, student, Polish" for example, then it's unacceptable full stop. Double standards are not ok. If demographic profiling and generalising are wrong, then they're wrong - end of story.

In other words, it's simply not ok to say "some travellers are bad, therefore any travellers who might move in might be bad, therefore I don't want them living near me". It's no more ok than to say "some men are rapists, therefore any man who might move in might be a rapist, therefore I don't want men living near me". It's profiling, it's bigoted, it's unjustified and it's downright nasty. And the fact that people seem to think that bigotry against travellers as a demographic group is exempt from the social unacceptability of bigotry is fairly alarming. As I said earlier in the thread, I've seen people who campaign passionately for gay rights, an end to racial discrimination and an end to sectarianism still make sweeping generalisations about travellers. It's that normalised in our society, and that's f*cking appalling.

No one is saying they are *probably*bad. They are saying there is a history of anti social behaviour by this family.

If that is the case, they should not be allowed in the site or indeed any site.

The residents, the travellers involved, the councillors and the Gardai are those best equipped to deal with this case, if there are problems then they will be logged and documented and possibly have charges if there is criminal behaviour.

I have no problem with anyone not welcoming anti social behaviour into their community.

Residents object to temporary halting site

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