Warwick student rejects consent lessons.

steddyeddy · 15-10-2015 02:15PM #1

Warwick University student George Lawlor refuses invite to consent classes. These classes claim to teach students about proper consent with members of the opposite sex. George gives his reasons in the Metro.

Some of his thoughts are detailed below. The question is, are rapists really committing acts like these because of lack of consent lessons? I'm divided on this. If it prevents even one rape then men and women need to attend these classes but on the other hand it reminds me of the South Park episode where people attened classes on how not to abuse their children.

A friend of mine who used to work with me in an abuse charity wanted to set something up that taught parents about how to not subtlety abuse their kids emotionally ect. I think he was a bit mad tbh and I think it would have insulted people hugely. Do people really need classes on things like this? Again I'm divided but I'd like to ask the question because maybe I'm misinformed. There actually could be some very essential information in these classes about sexual boundaries for men and women but maybe they shouldn't be called consent classes.

George Lawlor, a Warwick University student and a senior reporter at the Tab, posted an article about an invitation he was sent to some ‘consent lessons’ about sexual behaviour.
In the article, titled ‘Why I don’t need consent lessons’, George said: ‘I feel as if I’m taking the “wrong” side here, but someone has to say it – I don’t have to be taught to not be a rapist. That much comes naturally to me, as I am sure it does to the overwhelming majority of people you and I know.
‘Brand me a bigot, a misogynist, a rape apologist, I don’t care. I stand by that.’
He claimed that he was completely against the lessons and felt they were a waste of time. This, of course, sparked outrage, with someone calling it ‘one of the most ignorant, misinformed, short-sighted and downright incorrect articles I’ve ever read.’
And social media followed suit:

adocholiday · 15-10-2015 02:25PM

Yet another case of the world gone far too PC. Consent lessons FFS. Funnily enough the vast majority of us managed to get to the various stages of life that we are at without having raped someone. We are creating a world full of victims where the next group of people are just waiting for the next thing to be outraged at. Are we going to allow various institutions to be the administrators of responsibility from now on? An agency for this, a working group for that, a body for the other. It's maddening. What has happened to a bit of common sense and personal responsibility?

Medusa22 · 15-10-2015 02:30PM

I have to say that having read his article, that I agree with him in the sense that I don't believe that consent classes will help to prevent rapes. The majority of people are not rapists and they already know how to interact with other humans and how to obtain consent. Sometimes the situation is a bit more nuanced, as we have had countless threads on what is and isn't rape on AH, and also what is and is not consent.

I disagree with his posting a photo of himself holding a sign that reads ''This is not what a rapist looks like'', unfortunately there is no way to identify what a rapist looks like, they don't wear signs and there is no certain ''look'', otherwise we'd be able to identify them for ourselves.

NachoBusiness · 15-10-2015 02:30PM

I do think sexual education at late stage primary level (5th or 6th class, maybe even 1st year secondary) should have an element of education regarding sexual urges, especially in the context of alcohol consumption, but this sounds like it was arranged by the 'gender studies' brigade and it was really just a finger wagging exercise more than anything else and so on that basis, I say fair play to him. Refreshing to know there are some young men at college that still have their balls intact.

Self-appointed teachers of consent: get off your f***ing high horse. I don’t need your help to understand basic human interaction. Secondly, go and do something. Real people need your help and they deserve better than you. Next time you consider inviting me or anyone else to another bulls**t event like this, have a little respect for the intelligence and decency of your peers. You might find that’s a more effective solution than accusing them of being vile rapists-in-waiting who can only be taught otherwise by a smug, righteous, self-congratulatory intervention.

steddyeddy · 15-10-2015 02:30PM

Medusa22 wrote: »

I have to say that having read his article, that I agree with him in the sense that I don't believe that consent classes will help to prevent rapes. The majority of people are not rapists and they already know how to interact with other humans and how to obtain consent. Sometimes the situation is a bit more nuanced, as we have had countless threads on what is and isn't rape on AH, and also what is and is not consent.

I disagree with his posting a photo of himself holding a sign that reads ''is this what a rapist looks like?'', unfortunately there is no way to identify what a rapist looks like, they don't wear signs and there is no certain ''look'', otherwise we'd be able to identify them for ourselves.

Yes I pretty much agree with this.

fizzypish · 15-10-2015 02:33PM

I think it was Jim Jeffries (comedian) talking about the 10 commandments. His viewpoint in a nut shell was: The commandments are fine but why the **** did they need to be written in stone or even made noted. Don't kill him, don't steal her ****, don't steal his wife...... I don't need to be told these things are wrong as an adult. I got it when I was five!

"Hey you need to do a course on not forcing yourself on women". "Naw man, thats ok. I knew not to do that since I was a sprog but in the event I'm lying, you can assume I knew what I was doing, am actually a piece of **** and should be knee capped and castrated".

..but this is the world we live in and its not getting better any time soon.

steddyeddy · 15-10-2015 02:35PM

I would rather shoot myself than inflict that sort of trauma on anyone and I'm fairly confident that most people feel that way. You don't need classes to think that way it's natural to feel repulsion to rape IMHO.

end of the road · 15-10-2015 02:36PM

adocholiday wrote: »

Yet another case of the world gone far too PC.

no . just simple stupidness. or at least thats what it was called in my day before wannabe derogatory terms like pc came into existence.

Potatoeman · 15-10-2015 02:38PM

The idea of what consent is in a university is not what most people would consider consent. Enthusiastic consent is not considered enough if the girl changes her mind later. There have already been threads on this forum where college guys were expelled without trial.

SEPT 23 1989 · 15-10-2015 02:39PM

are today's students so thick that they need lessons like this?

biko · 15-10-2015 02:40PM

I like it. It goes along with the motto "You don't have to teach your daughters to dress or drink modestly if you teach your sons not to rape"

osarusan · 15-10-2015 02:41PM

I agree with a lot of what he says, but I'm a little confused as to how the invitation came about - it seems to have been an invite to an event on facebook - was he specifically invited, or was it everybody who was a facebook friend of the university, or union or something?

If it's one of those blanket invites to everybody and not specifically targeting anybody, he is probably going over the top:

he said he still found the invitation to be loathsome, adding: “It implies I have an insufficient understanding of what does and does not constitute consent and that’s incredibly hurtful. I can’t stress that enough.”

But if he was specifically invited ('that guy needs to come to this') I can see why he'd be angry.

bucketybuck · 15-10-2015 02:42PM

SEPT 23 1989 wrote: »

are today's students so thick that they need lessons like this?

No they aren't. Thats rather the whole point of the article...

fizzypish · 15-10-2015 02:42PM

Imagine how much of a psycho you'd be if you failed the course.

conorhal · 15-10-2015 02:45PM

SEPT 23 1989 wrote: »

are today's students so thick that they need lessons like this?

Perhaps an app would be best, their iPhones are the only things millennials pay attention to. They may well the the first generation to spend more time at opposite ends the sofa staring silently into glowing screens rather then getting busy on it.

BlaasForRafa · 15-10-2015 02:50PM

He's dead right to protest this, these classes are a patronising insult to decent men. They're a sign of how entrenched feminist ideology is getting in universities and academia and feed into the "all men are (potential) rapists" and "rape culture" myths.

Floppybits · 15-10-2015 02:53PM

Jaysus how did any of us 30+ ever get to this point in life without these sort of classes. It is shocking how this sort of thing is allowed and colleges and universities are allowing it. Someone is has to be taking the p*** with this crap.

strelok · 15-10-2015 02:55PM

BlaasForRafa wrote: »

He's dead right to protest this, these classes are a patronising insult to decent men. They're a sign of how entrenched feminist ideology is getting in universities and academia and feed into the "all men are (potential) rapists" and "rape culture" myths.

back when feminists were trying to make atheism plus a thing, there was a fantastic post on the a+ forums by some absolute ****ing spastic asking the community if it was a good idea to introduce himself to women as "hi, I'm ***** and I'm a potential rapist" so they understood that he "got it" and was on their side.

conorhal · 15-10-2015 02:57PM

BlaasForRafa wrote: »

He's dead right to protest this, these classes are a patronising insult to decent men. They're a sign of how entrenched feminist ideology is getting in universities and academia and feed into the "all men are (potential) rapists" and "rape culture" myths.

Occasionally the nutters even turn themselves in!

http://oxfordstudent.com/2015/10/10/student-activist-annie-teriba-to-resign-from-political-campaigning/

Teriba released the following statement on her Facebook profile, which she has since deleted. The statement has been reposted by the OUSU Women’s Campaign.
The full statement (which included trigger warnings for sexual assault and sexual violence), reads as follows:
“This statement explains why I will be stepping back from political campaigning from now.
(I owe you a proper explanation, so will go into details here which you may find triggering.)
At this year’s NUS Black Students’ Conference, I had sex with someone. The other party later informed me that the sex was not consensual. I failed to properly establish consent before every act. I apologise sincerely and profoundly for my actions. I should have taken sufficient steps to ensure that everything I did was consensual. I should have been more attentive to the person’s body language. In failing to clarify that the person consented to our entire encounter, I have caused serious irreparable harm.

It's a shame she had to step back from political campaigning, I'm sure she'll be a terrible loss to the Peoples Front of Judea......

steddyeddy · 15-10-2015 03:00PM

Some of the abuse the chap is getting on Twitter:

Speechless at how someone can undermine such important education that fills a crucial hole in our curriculum, awful:

I want a shower after reading that, what an angry little creepbag

The irony is that this is exactly the sort of twit who needs to go on a consent course. http://thetab.com/uk/warwick/2015/10/14/dont-need-consent-lessons-9925 … via @TheTabWarwick

The tweet in the middle is ironic considering the anger displayed by the tweeter.

valoren · 15-10-2015 03:02PM

Do women have to attend these classes? Or is it men only?

Will one of the lessons be titled, "Why you should not cry rape after giving consent 101"

15-10-2015 03:03PM

What kind of an invitation was it? I got one in the mail inviting me to check out a double glazing firms windows, I didn't feel they were disparaging my own particular windows because I know that 'invite' isn't directed at me, Candie.

If someone addressed him specifically, knowing him and not pulling his name off some list, and told him he had to go learn how not to rape, then he should be livid. If it's an open letter type invitation, and it helps clear up someones misconceptions, then thats fine.

Most people need no clearing up, most people are just like me and going about their daily business and simultaneously not raping anyone. Sometimes people might need to find out how drunk is too drunk, or that I don't think so doesn't mean persuade me, or whatever, and while I imagine that's very rare, no one should be raped because one party is bad at communicating, and the other is bad at interpreting body language.

Potatoeman · 15-10-2015 03:04PM

steddyeddy wrote: »

Some of the abuse the chap is getting on Twitter:

The tweet in the middle is ironic considering the anger displayed by the tweeter.

The first quote. I thought it was about not filling holes.

Grab All Association · 15-10-2015 03:13PM

https://twitter.com/teutates1989/status/654607989421285376/photo/1

valoren · 15-10-2015 03:15PM

It reminds me of a video on Youtube a few years ago.
It was about how to breathe when running.

Some athlete type guy is blathering on with the following, "You'll want to breathe in *inhales* and then breathe out *exhales*" and continued to expound how important this was.

The top rated comment was the following.
"I'm an expert at that, after all I've been doing it since I was born!!!"

Being so arrogant as to lecture an intelligent group of people such as a student body on how not to rape is insulting.

imitation · 15-10-2015 03:16PM

Call me old fashioned but I dont think the sex ed class is a bad idea, yes it needs to be done right, mandatory for both sexs and approached right etc, but surely it cant hurt. There are a lot of 18/19 year olds who wont have thought about sex until they are in the heat of the moment. Thats where you get those gray area situations that end up ruining people with court cases. If a short class can help eliminate some of it then how bad.

15-10-2015 03:19PM

valoren wrote: »

Being so arrogant as to lecture an intelligent group of people such as a student body on how not to rape is insulting.

I completely agree, but it's not a lecture delivered to the student body at large.

It's a lecture delivered to people who respond to a general invitation to attend.

I suspect this was just a blanket emailing notifying people of a lecture on consent (there's been a lot of talk about it lately online), and this guy wanted to stir up some outrage and decided to stick his tail up and take umbrage by interpreting it in the most personal way possible, hoping to get exactly the reaction he has.

conorhal · 15-10-2015 03:23PM

Candie wrote: »

I completely agree, but it's not a lecture delivered to the student body at large.

It's a lecture delivered to people who respond to a general invitation to attend.

I suspect this was just a blanket emailing notifying people of a lecture on consent (there's been a lot of talk about it lately online), and this guy wanted to stir up some outrage and decided to stick his tail up and take umbrage by interpreting it in the most personal way possible, hoping to get exactly the reaction he has.

I'd say the same of the organizers, who will no doubt smugly suggest that this incident demonstrates why these classes need to be mandatory.

Maguined · 15-10-2015 03:25PM

Candie wrote: »

What kind of an invitation was it? I got one in the mail inviting me to check out a double glazing firms windows, I didn't feel they were disparaging my own particular windows because I know that 'invite' isn't directed at me, Candie.

If someone addressed him specifically, knowing him and not pulling his name off some list, and told him he had to go learn how not to rape, then he should be livid. If it's an open letter type invitation, and it helps clear up someones misconceptions, then thats fine.

Most people need no clearing up, most people are just like me and going about their daily business and simultaneously not raping anyone. Sometimes people might need to find out how drunk is too drunk, or that I don't think so doesn't mean persuade me, or whatever, and while I imagine that's very rare, no one should be raped because one party is bad at communicating, and the other is bad at interpreting body language.

Facebook Event invitation organised by the students union. There was 300 people invited to the event which was targeted at freshers but the college has nearly 13k undergraduates but it doesn't give a breakdown how many are freshers.

15-10-2015 03:25PM

conorhal wrote: »

I'd say the same of the organizers, who will no doubt smugly suggest that this incident demonstrates why these classes need to be mandatory.

Then he's playing right into their hands.

When I come across something obviously ridiculous and unrelated to my life, I do the sensible thing and I ignore it.

He should have done the same, but now he's all notorious and bad-ass and sticking it to those crazy rad-fems. So he's no different, really.

conorhal · 15-10-2015 03:34PM

Candie wrote: »

Then he's playing right into their hands.

When I come across something obviously ridiculous and unrelated to my life, I do the sensible thing and I ignore it.

He should have done the same, but now he's all notorious and bad-ass and sticking it to those crazy rad-fems. So he's no different, really.

These loons have pretty much taken over university politics as a result of that kind of shrugging apathy, a halt needs to be called to their antics at some point, but it would of course be a braver (or more foolish) person then I to do so.
In truth the 'reaction' is just another example of the 'no-platform' shouting down of dissent that has become all to common, even here, where national issues of immigration or travellers or no doubt this nonsense will be quietly moved and closed on 'Irelands biggest forum'.

Warwick student rejects consent lessons.

Comments