Fire at a halting site in Dublin Mod Warning Post #1

StewartGriffin · 14-10-2015 01:16PM

efb wrote: »

Lets say one is the reincarnated Christ, does that change yours?

Hypothetical situations are meaningless

The point I'm trying to make, efb, is that you're not here looking for information to change your opinion, your mind is fully closed on the issue. You're just arguing because you like to make yourself feel good about standing up for "the little guy".

Even if "the little guy" doesn't want/need you on their side.

brooke 2 · 14-10-2015 01:16PM

The Talking Bread wrote: »

Don't let the facts get in the way of a PC BRIGADE story.....

This is my main issue. The non consultation with the residents. It was ignorant, malicious and inevitably going to cause issues.

I want those poor 15 people to find suitable accomodaton ASAP but just sticking a needle in a map and covering your ears and ignoring their would be neighbours isn't fair.

That is the same with planning permission. People are given the right to object. Why are travellers treated differently.

My initial reaction, when I heard those people were blocking the bulldozers' access to the site,
was of anger towards them. I realise now that it was media driven, as, on hearing all the details on here, I have total sympathy with those residents. The disrespect shown to them has been mind-blowing. As I've mentioned already, I doubt all residents in that particular area would have been treated with such disdain!!

prawn_lover · 14-10-2015 01:19PM

brooke 2 wrote: »

GUBU! I don't blame the residents - from what I am reading here, they have had bad experiences with this particular group, in spite of the glowing reports which we have read about it in the papers.

if one was to go by the media in this country , anti social behaviour amongst the particular community in question is as rare as hens teeth

a proper honest debate on the issue is impossible , i cant think of a single journalist bar that lady who went on liveline a few years ago , who has ever highlighted crime etc , she was labelled a bigot by pavee point and the equality authority at the time

99% of the media chose the easy lazy way when it comes to travellers

Mr McBoatface · 14-10-2015 01:19PM

Seems Enda agrees with the residents on this.

I wonder will the Council and Alan Kelly apologise for creating this mess

"Speaking on Newstalk, Mr Kenny said: "The funerals haven't even taken place of these ten people.

"Of course these things have to be dealt with but there is a procedure and a process by which you can consult with local people at a time of tragedy and say look 'we need to use this field'."

Mr Kenny said "consultations and conversations" with communities were very important and he hoped that could take place today.

He hoped the residents of Carrickmines would respond after things were explained to them fully, the Taoiseach added."

brooke 2 · 14-10-2015 01:20PM

efb wrote: »

There are correct ways to object, not sticking cars in the way. And the reasons must be valid.

Troll!!

efb · 14-10-2015 01:22PM

StewartGriffin wrote: »

The point I'm trying to make, efb, is that you're not here looking for information to change your opinion, your mind is fully closed on the issue. You're just arguing because you like to make yourself feel good about standing up for "the little guy".

Even if "the little guy" doesn't want/need you on their side.

If they were guilty of crimes I could understand people having issues

prawn_lover · 14-10-2015 01:22PM

StewartGriffin wrote: »

The point I'm trying to make, efb, is that you're not here looking for information to change your opinion, your mind is fully closed on the issue. You're just arguing because you like to make yourself feel good about standing up for "the little guy".

Even if "the little guy" doesn't want/need you on their side.

being a good PC liberal is all about sounding good , doing good has little to do with it

thats why its not only useless , its dangerous as it attempts to silence criticism when the topic involves sacred cows , vincent browne is a major offender in this way , i know browne is quite mad but is sheer wrongheadedness on this issue is only equaled by his conviction on the subject

Hitchens · 14-10-2015 01:22PM

efb wrote: »

Lets say one is the reincarnated Christ, does that change yours?

Hypothetical situations are meaningless

The best indicator of future behaviour is past behaviour, just saying

zl1whqvjs75cdy · 14-10-2015 01:22PM

Alan Kelly is poised to overtake James Reilly as the my least favorite and most incompetent minister. Every week the clown is making a mess of something. Hope he cuts turfed out at the next election.

gandalf · 14-10-2015 01:22PM

brooke 2 wrote: »

My initial reaction, when I heard those people were blocking the bulldozers' access to the site,
was of anger towards them. I realise now that it was media driven, as, on hearing all the details on here, I have total sympathy with those residents. The disrespect shown to them has been mind-blowing. As I've mentioned already, I doubt all residents in that particular area would have been treated with such disdain!!

TBH it was my initial reaction too. But again once I read how it had been broken to the residents and the interview with one of them this morning and drawing on my own experience of halting sites in my locality I sympathise totally with the residents.

DLR and the media should hang their heads in shame with their attempt to railroad this through. I see Enda Kenny has put out a flip flop statement totally contradicting what his cabinet colleagues Aodhan O Riordain and Alan Kelly said yesterday. He said it was wrong to force the settlement on local residents without consulting with them first.

It is time to stop giving travelers preferential treatment and we should expect them to confirm with the norms of general polite society.

efb · 14-10-2015 01:22PM

prawn_lover wrote: »

being a good PC liberal is all about sounding good , doing good has little to do with it

thats why its not only useless , its dangerous as it attempts to silence criticism when the topic involves sacred cows , vincent browne is a major offender in this way , i know browne is quite mad but is sheer wrongheadedness on this issue is only equaled by his conviction on the subject

Are you saying I only talk the talk? Based on what?

Shurimgreat · 14-10-2015 01:24PM

Unfortunately travellers have chosen a way of life that is largely incompatible with settled life and society in general. If they made an effort to conform to social norms I don't think anyone would object to having them as neighbours. However certain parts of their culture such as machismo, violence, lack of social integration, and so on don't make them ideal neighbours. I'm also with carrickmines residents on this one, tragedy or no tragedy.

The tragedy shouldn't be used as a stick to beat the residents into submission or have a difficult situation forced on them.

prawn_lover · 14-10-2015 01:25PM

jobyrne30 wrote: »

Seems Enda agrees with the residents on this.

I wonder will the Council and Alan Kelly apologise for creating this mess

"Speaking on Newstalk, Mr Kenny said: "The funerals haven't even taken place of these ten people.

"Of course these things have to be dealt with but there is a procedure and a process by which you can consult with local people at a time of tragedy and say look 'we need to use this field'."

Mr Kenny said "consultations and conversations" with communities were very important and he hoped that could take place today.

He hoped the residents of Carrickmines would respond after things were explained to them fully, the Taoiseach added."

kenny is right , why the sudden rush to arrange accomodation ?

why are travellers entitled to special treatment in the event of a tragedy ?

does the magnitude of the fire cancel out any legitimacy of concerns that residents in carrickmines have ?

does it cancel out all the rural robberies which have happened this past few years and the fact that travellers are overwhelmingly behind them ?

have we lost the ability to reason ?

suicide_circus · 14-10-2015 01:25PM

CatFromHue wrote: »

400m down a small cul de sac is just not the place to put a halting site no matter how good or bad the inhabitants are.

add to that, no water, waste drainage, electricity/gas connection....wholly unsuitable. What would happen if a non travellers family living at the expense of the state were in a similar situation? would they be put in a field at the end of an estate? No. They would be put in emergency accommodation and the same should happen here. Furthermore, why are there funds for "traveller accommodation"? Why doesn't this just come out of the general social housing pool?

efb · 14-10-2015 01:25PM

StewartGriffin wrote: »

The point I'm trying to make, efb, is that you're not here looking for information to change your opinion, your mind is fully closed on the issue. You're just arguing because you like to make yourself feel good about standing up for "the little guy".

Even if "the little guy" doesn't want/need you on their side.

How did you decide this and what proof?

The Talking Bread · 14-10-2015 01:26PM

efb wrote: »

Are you saying I only talk the talk? Based on what?

33,000 posts

prawn_lover · 14-10-2015 01:27PM

gandalf wrote: »

TBH it was my initial reaction too. But again once I read how it had been broken to the residents and the interview with one of them this morning and drawing on my own experience of halting sites in my locality I sympathise totally with the residents.

DLR and the media should hang their heads in shame with their attempt to railroad this through. I see Enda Kenny has put out a flip flop statement totally contradicting what his cabinet colleagues Aodhan O Riordain and Alan Kelly said yesterday. He said it was wrong to force the settlement on local residents without consulting with them first.

It is time to stop giving travelers preferential treatment and we should expect them to confirm with the norms of general polite society.

enda is a rural TD and knows full well that unlike the kind of liberals who vote for o riordan , people in mayo and the west are wise to what most travellers are like , they live and die by this experience

efb · 14-10-2015 01:27PM

The Talking Bread wrote: »

33,000 posts

Over 13 years

efb · 14-10-2015 01:27PM

The Talking Bread wrote: »

33,000 posts

That only indicates my post count

prawn_lover · 14-10-2015 01:29PM

efb wrote: »

Over 13 years

anyone who lists their location as " equality street " is to be given a wide berth

you can be sure your dealing with the most insufferable condescending and sanctimonious liberal and you live up to this impression

efb · 14-10-2015 01:30PM

prawn_lover wrote: »

anyone who lists their location as " equality street " is to be given a wide berth

you can be sure your dealing with the most insufferable condescending and sanctimonious liberal and you live up to this impression

I changed that post referendum,previous tot hat it was centre of the ring- people thought that was vulgar but I was making reference to my boxing refereeing lol

My name is URL · 14-10-2015 01:42PM

jobyrne30 wrote: »

Seems Enda agrees with the residents on this.

I wonder will the Council and Alan Kelly apologise for creating this mess

"Speaking on Newstalk, Mr Kenny said: "The funerals haven't even taken place of these ten people.

"Of course these things have to be dealt with but there is a procedure and a process by which you can consult with local people at a time of tragedy and say look 'we need to use this field'."

Mr Kenny said "consultations and conversations" with communities were very important and he hoped that could take place today.

He hoped the residents of Carrickmines would respond after things were explained to them fully, the Taoiseach added."

I don't think anyone could legitimately disagree with the residents wanting answers and assurances about the whole thing

Sounds like Kenny wants the whole thing sorted out as much as anyone else does. It doesn't mean he agrees with the idea of not allowing the relocation to happen at all.

Only 5 residents bothered to turn up to the meeting with the council this morning. 5... out of a community of what, 2000+? People on the internet who don't live anywhere near the area seem more opposed to it than those actually living in the area.

Penn · 14-10-2015 01:44PM

efb wrote: »

I would take issue with anyone who would leave someone homeless, because it would effect the value of their own property.

Again, the issue isn't simply devaluation of property. There are numerous other issues which need to be taken into consideration, to allow people to object in a valid way, none of which has happened. And as much as I sympathise with those involved, it simply cannot just be a case where they're set up in a field without due consideration to the local residents and landowners. That doesn't occur for non-travellers, it shouldn't occur for travellers.

prawn_lover · 14-10-2015 01:45PM

My name is URL wrote: »

I don't think anyone could legitimately disagree with the residents wanting answers and assurances about the whole thing

Sounds like Kenny wants the whole thing sorted out as much as anyone else does. It doesn't mean he agrees with the idea of not allowing the relocation to happen at all.

Only 5 residents bothered to turn up to the meeting with the council this morning. 5... out of a community of what, 2000+? People on the internet who don't live anywhere near the area seem more opposed to it than those actually living in the area.

martin collins was on the radio this morning , describing these opposition residents as " being devoid of humanity " , collins is always given free reign to pontificate to his hearts content , never once is he asked to condemn traveller crime

is it any wonder so few residents come out when the media is universally ready and waiting to savage them

prawn_lover · 14-10-2015 01:47PM

Penn wrote: »

Again, the issue isn't simply devaluation of property. There are numerous other issues which need to be taken into consideration, to allow people to object in a valid way, none of which has happened. And as much as I sympathise with those involved, it simply cannot just be a case where they're set up in a field without due consideration to the local residents and landowners. That doesn't occur for non-travellers, it shouldn't occur for travellers.

settled people dont make the list of liberal sacred cows so therefore are not entitled to special treatment

this is the kind of future we are facing into , where self appointed enlightened betters will decide which people are worthy of special treatment , as for the rest of us , we are to shut up and keep paying taxes so as to fund these pet projects

The Talking Bread · 14-10-2015 01:48PM

My name is URL wrote: »

I don't think anyone could legitimately disagree with the residents wanting answers and assurances about the whole thing

Sounds like Kenny wants the whole thing sorted out as much as anyone else does. It doesn't mean he agrees with the idea of not allowing the relocation to happen at all.

Only 5 residents bothered to turn up to the meeting with the council this morning. 5... out of a community of what, 2000+? People on the internet who don't live anywhere near the area seem more opposed to it than those actually living in the area.

2000??? big cul de sac. maybe some have to work to pay their house mortgages

valoren · 14-10-2015 01:51PM

colm_mcm wrote: »

That's not that interesting.

I guess it's an example of that Joker meme.

10 travellers die in an accident and no one cares.
6 students die in an accident and everyone loses their minds.

Chimera88 · 14-10-2015 01:54PM

valoren wrote: »

I guess it's an example of that Joker meme.

10 travellers die in an accident and no one cares.
6 students die in an accident and everyone loses their minds.

Nice to assume that because people don't think that particular site is fitting, that instantly means they don't care about the loss of life.

NewCorkLad · 14-10-2015 01:55PM

My name is URL wrote: »

Only 5 residents bothered to turn up to the meeting with the council this morning. 5... out of a community of what, 2000+? People on the internet who don't live anywhere near the area seem more opposed to it than those actually living in the area.

5 representatives's of the residents met the council and are now holding a meeting with the rest of the residents.

brooke 2 · 14-10-2015 01:55PM

gandalf wrote: »

TBH we Irish generally don't speak ill of the dead even or especially if that ill represents the truth.

True. My issue with the media is that some members were very quick to paint the deceased in glowing colours and others flowed along with that representation. They could have just reported on the tragedy as it was.

Fire at a halting site in Dublin *Mod Warning Post #1*

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Fire at a halting site in Dublin Mod Warning Post #1