DCM 2015: Mentored Novices Thread

runnerholic wrote: »

Did a 6 mile trot this morning at my scaled back PMP. There was still a bit of fatigue in the legs after my 20 mile LSR on Friday but the run went very well all the same. I only plan to do 3 more runs before the 26th of about 6 miles. The way I look at it now is that I am not going to build any more endurance at this stage and the most important thing is to get to the start in as healthy a condition as possible. The hardest part of the Marathon is to get to the start line so I hope all on this thread make the start in the shape of their lives.

Leecheryl wrote: »

Hi there, I've just officially joined this group although I have been running with some of you already as I'm PJD's running partner so he's been keeping me updated on all your advice which has been most useful (especially the advice on underwear!). I look forward to meeting you again for a few pints at the finish!!!!

and of course the small fact that we met after the half

diego_b wrote: »

Some post Dubgal, I am going to have to have a second go at reading that later....a lot to take in.

I have been thinking a lot about this in the last few days, not obsessing over it but trying to be honest with myself over where I see any issues and how to actually approach the marathon on the day and enjoy it. I know a few friends who did not have good experiences first time around, some that it took more than first time around to actually get around.

I have already also started thinking about doing the race again next year, set a marker for this year and become an even stronger (strength is an area I do need work on) and smarter runner next year. I enjoyed the training a lot, to be honest my only real qualms with it were finding LSRs routes that weren't too severe on hills and also developing the mental strength to get around them when on my own. Running 15-20miles on my own can be hard but with someone else it doesn't cost me a thought.
I used to do 5Ks...and even 5K races using earphones and podcasts/music, haven't used them since week 1/2 training on the program and don't even think of it now.

My last two half marathons have been 1:52:28 back in July (downhill course for the first 6 miles, then flat with a few uphills, struggled in the last mile), then 1:50:3x in Dingle back the start of September. The course was testing but felt I paced it well, target had been 1:52 but got to 10miles and let it rip....was pretty much running 5/10K pace for the last 3miles barring one hill. Felt strong and after the race I recovered very quickly. Minutes afterwards whilst I knew and felt I had done a race I did not feel I had overcooked it.

In my own case at the moment given the knee niggle is holding steady I seem to be pretty comfortable running 9-9:30min/mi. Slower than that is not so good, faster might cause me problems come 3 hours!
My original thought when starting this training was to run a marathon (with a notional goal of sub 4hrs). I think my overall desire to do the race and enjoy it means I am going to push back on that, I am reasonably confident that I could try go for sub 4hrs but I know I would be quite anxious on the day about it and blowing up ending up running 10min/miles is going to hurt me.
For the sake of running 9:20-9:30min/mi I think I can keep my knee pretty happy and hopefully have something left in the tank to both avoid feeling terrible for the last 6.2miles and even pick it up a bit in pace. Thinking of lining up around the 4:10 pacers and maybe not seeing them again for the race...in a good way!

TheBazman wrote: »

Took a 4 day break after I felt a niggle coming on my (other) knee last Thursday, except for some cycling/swimming. Went out today for a 19k run. Well I thought it was a 21k run until I got home... I obviously had it pre-mapped out wrong. Anyway took it handy - was a bit worried at one stage about the knee but it was grand overall. The knee support and biofreeze spray seemed to do the trick for the most part.

Pace:5:50/km
HR: 147
1hr 51m overall

...and thanks DG and the gang for all the reading above. That's the evening sorted.

ZV Yoda wrote: »

I have come to a very similar conclusion. I'm knocking the idea of a sub-4hr completely on the head. There's a little voice inside my head still telling me I could achieve sub-4hr if I push myself... BUT... the training has taught me that I'll probably end up paying the price through injury or hitting the wall.

As has been said on here many times "You only get one chance to run your first marathon". I want to enjoy it.

Of course, I still need to have some kind of pacing strategy & having done the training, I think I can realistically achieve 4:15-4:30, so that's what I'm aiming for.

BUT job #1 is to finish it, enjoy it - and ideally not cause myself any physically harm in the process.

Phoebas wrote: »

@dubgal - great post re target time. Here's how I'm thinking about it:

When I made my first post on this thread - 5 months ago - I put 4:20 as a DCM target. I also said that I had a dream time of sub 4:00, which obviously wasn't based on any real knowledge of what I would be able to achieve, but it's a dream time that I've held onto since.

Fast forward 5 months and everything has gone more or less to plan. I missed one week through injury, but otherwise everything has been reasonably good. I've done the 20 milers, I've put in all of the days and the mileage on the plan - quite consistently, my recovery from long runs and races has been good. I can usually tell pretty accurately after 4 miles or so how a run is going and I know that heat and especially humidity can knock the stuffing out of me.
I've done a couple of HMs in the last 5 months (I'm getting to really love that distance) and knocked 10 minutes of the HM PB I posted 5 months ago, down to 1:48.

I can see that sub 4 hour marathon just within reach, so I think I'd be more pissed off with myself if I didn't attempt it than if I did attempt it but fell short. It's probably at the edge of what I'm capable of, and I think it would require everything being right on the day - no niggles/injuries, me feeling good on the day and the weather gods playing ball. Basically, I think its too close to being possible for me not to give it a go. If it turns out to be a bit beyond me, then so be it.

So, for now, my plan A is to go out with the 4h pacers. If I'm going to do it, I'll need to let them take on the worrying about pace and leave me to deal with the actual running bit.
Plan B will depend on the conditions on the day. If the day itself is anything like last year, then I'll re-evaluate and probably drop back to 4:10 or less. I'd be more than happy with that.

Really all I want is to complete it and in a time where the bloke who put in all of the tough runs over the last 5 months (me) gets a good return for his investment. If that happens to be sub 4 then great, and if its 4:10 or 4:15 that's pretty good too.

PJD wrote: »

All the fabulous people are running 4.30!!!... there should be a gang of us when DG allows us to declare our targets.

but not be actually set in stone until 8am on the 26th

mobfromcork wrote: »

Some great food for thought above relating to pacing on the day. Great post DG and some interesting reading on the links too.
I'm trying to make up my own mind about the PMP for the big day too. What Phoebas said 'Really all I want is to complete it and in a time where the bloke who put in all of the tough runs over the last 5 months (me) gets a good return for his investment really struck a chord with me too. I don't want to go out too hard and wreck it for myself but I know I'll feel like I'm selling myself short if I don't aim for a reasonable time for my training input/ability/fitness level.

I have most of the controllable boxes ticked
Followed the boards plan with a few additions/omissions
3 x 20 mile runs done, in good shape with negligible niggles, missed one week of training due to illness but had good base built up earlier in the year. Nearly 600 miles done since the 8th of June, 363 miles done from January to June but injured for 6 weeks of that time.
Average pace of long runs has been 8.45 per mile.
I have not raced anything since a half marathon in February - 1h37 (7.28 pace) . I had things on for every weekend of the Dublin race series and life got in the way for other races. I did 10 miles on my own in Cork on the morning of the Frank Duffy Dublin race in 1hr 13 (7.22 pace). They are the only two markers I have of suggested race pace. My training runs at PMP have been at around 7.50 per mile. I've felt ok at the end of the 3 x 20 mile runs @ 8.45 pace (as ok as you can be after 20 miles:)) and think I could have continued at that pace for another bit but not sure if I quicken that to 3hr 30 pace would I suffer in the last 6 miles.

The biggest uncontrollable factor for me is going to be sleep. I'm a poor sleeper at the best of times and especially the night before a big event my mind will be whirring overtime. I can see it being difficult getting a big performance together after a poor night's sleep and will need to be up at 5.45am to get a bus to Dublin at 6.30am. Hopefully the good nervous energy will override the lack of quality shut-eye.

I reckon I'm going to go for my A goal of sub 3.30 if I feel good on the day and the weather/stomach/body/sleep fairy are on my side. I'm planning on starting with the 3.30 pacers and see how I go. Take it handy for the first 4 or 5 miles and if it's going well, stick with them. I'll just be coming into the Phoenix Park where is very familiar running territory for me. If I'm not feeling it for whatever reason, I am happy enough to wind it back to whatever pace I need to.
I am trying to listen to people who are saying to just enjoy your first marathon and not be put under pressure by time but I find that difficult to reconcile with the last 6 months of training/life which is completely dictated by times, statistics, heart rates, paces, distances etc. I'm still humming and hawing over it but that's my gut feeling for now.
Reading over today's posts it is starting to get very real now! Nice easy week of miles as well to give the brain plenty of time to start getting in the right mind-frame.

Run well folks.

Mob

menoscemo wrote: »

I see you haven't checked the list in the last few days

Bez Bing wrote: »

Mob and Phoebas I think have very legitimate points.

Re: Goals, everyone is different, some will be happy to just finish and others have a goal time in mind.
You have all put a hell of a lot of effort and sacrifice into this training block and while it is your first marathon that is not a reason to not chase an aggressive target if that's what you chose to do.

If you have put in the training then I would say go for it but be honest with yourself.
Did you really put in the work? hit the paces in training? do you feel you've tapered well? got rid on most of your niggles? etc.

I ran DCM back in 2010 (my only marathon) and I was guilty of over-reaching. I went with the 3:45 guys and died a death in the last 10K coming home in 4:06 but I don't regret it.
Yes the last 10K were torture but if I played it safe and came home in 3:59 or 4:01 Id have been wondering what if.
In hindsight I missed too many runs and just didn't have the endurance built up.

Just be honest with yourself and your training and pay attention to the conditions on the day and give it lash!
There is no interval session mid week to mind yourself for, there's not long run next week.
This is it folks this is what you have been training for the past 18 plus weeks.

mobfromcork wrote: »

Also just figured that if I stick exactly to the mileage on the boards plan for the next 2 weeks I'll be hitting my 1000 miles for 2015 at mile 21.5 of the DCM - just coming up to Roebuck hill as far as I can see. What better way to pass a milestone than fighting back the tears of pain whilst running uphill. Might have a celebratory jelly bean to mark the occasion.

coolhandspan wrote: »

Quick update guys. Physio has ordered a running stop until next week end. Opened hip up.. Have to cross train for a few days. Don't really know what to think...😧ðŸ‘Â. Back with physio again friday. Should get all clear to resume running for week end.

Toulouse wrote: »

I think I'm getting sick

Fuxache! All this time and now it feels like I'm only holding off this dose through sheer willpower.

Me, my itchy ears, sore chest and a shot of whiskey are going to bed early. Pray for me people!!

sideshowbob321 wrote: »

Guys think I'm on the same page here too!
First started running August last year with a 5K and 10k that year followed by 10k x 2 and Half x 2 this year (1.56 & 1.54) and set out to train as well and good as possible for the DCM and just finish it smiling if possible
On the HHN1 plan and it's all gone well enough, no serious issues and I've enjoyed all (most) of it
Originally back in June a loose target was 10min/m and a 4.30ish finish but as the training and mileage increased I've considered a sub 4 but feel comfortable at a 9.30/m pace so planning to go out with the 4.10 pacers on the day and if I finish at 4.0x I'll be chuffed

DG how does this sound?

Looking forward to two weeks taper and hopefully I won't go too nuts in the meantime!!

Singer wrote: »

I have a feeling that myself, yourself and FeenaM (I may have missed others...) are worrying about the same type of pace problems at the moment

I think on paper I've got some stuff indicating that sub-3:30 is a possibility, and it's really tempting (the number is sooooo round ), but blowing up at the end of the half has made me a lot more amenable to going for a slightly more comfortable time. I've been wrecking my head thinking through various scenarios about how I could start off relatively slow but if feeling good catch up to get in under 3:30... but they don't sound like too much fun and are a bit risky (then again, the course is supposed to be good for negative spl... ARGH NO STOP STUPID BRAIN).

So, my own goals (A goal is subject to tweaking):

A goal: < 3:40 Unless there's a hurricane or I feel wonky on the day, I'll start off with the 3:40 pacers. After 10 miles I'll see how things are going and maybe push on. After 20, we'll see what happens but I've got low expectations

B goal: < 4:00 Something went wrong - maybe blowing up, or I'm too sore or whatever. Still meet my original target going into all of this marathon nonsense :cool: