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Western Rail Corridor (all disused sections)

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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,282 ✭✭✭westtip


    Interesting press release this morning from greenway campaigners now taking a combined view from Sligo to Galway - but abombshell for WOT about Rail Users Ireland now supporting the greenway campaign

    Press release From: The Western Rail Trail Campaign
    Date October 12th: FOR IMMEDIATE USE ( 816 words)
    Greenway campaigners in Sligo, Mayo and Galway call on government to act on Western Rail Trail in budget and capital plans

    Rail Users Ireland Group calls trail campaign “appropriate and sensible proposal”

    • Prominent West of Ireland Hoteliers back Western Rail Trail


    Three West of Ireland TDs, Tony Mcloughlin, John Perry and Colm Keaveny say Greenway now railway when we can afford the best option.

    Two Senators back greenway submission: Lorraine Higgins and Feargal Quinn.

    • Thousands support campaign in social media groupings and call on Government to act.

    The Western Rail Trail campaign, the umbrella organisation of campaign groups from Sligo to Galway campaigning for a greenway to be put in place on the closed railway line from Collooney to Athenry until such time as a railway might be possible has released a pre-budget submission to Government calling for action before any election.

    Brendan Quinn of the WRT campaign said “We decided to put a joint submission into Government to make the minister aware that this idea has growing support throughout the West of Ireland. The campaign approached a number of organisations we felt may support us and were very pleased with the response."

    Quinn added. “We would really like to thank the Rail Users Ireland Group for considering our proposal and coming on board with such a strong statement. We would like to share the full statement they gave us on September 30th when they told us they would support our submission:

    Rail Users Group Ireland statement to Western Rail Trail Campaign on September 30th

    START
    Statement by Rail Users Ireland in response to Western Rail Trail Campaign Budget 2016 pre-budget submission, 30 September 2015.

    Rail Users Ireland considers the proposal to provide a greenway along the alignment of the Western Rail Corridor to be an appropriate and sensible proposal to protect the railway alignment while providing a benefit to the local and wider community.

    The greenway would ensure the right of way is maintained for future generations and allows for the development of a railway should circumstances change in the future to make such a development viable.
    The provision of a greenway would reduce the cost of any reopening by ensuring the alignment is kept free of obstruction.
    ENDS

    The statement from Rail Users Group Ireland really sums up exactly what this project is about. Utilising a public facility now for the benefit of local communities whilst protecting the route for any future use as a railway.

    Leading hoteliers also back greenway

    The Irish Hotel Federation were approached to back the submission and we hope in time the IHF will give it’s full support to the plan. In the meantime, the campaign group has welcomed the personal endorsement and support from the Chairmen of the Galway, Mayo and Sligo/Leitrim IHF associations. Quinn said, there wasn’t sufficient time to get this proposal through all the hoops in time for the pre-budget submission, but we were really pleased to gain the personal support of leading figures in the West of Ireland hotel community to back the proposal, Shay Livingston MD of the Connacht Hotel in Galway, chairman of the Galway branch of the IHF, Michael Lennon MD of the Westport Woods Hotel, chairman of the Mayo branch of IHF and Brian Pierson MD of the Diamond Coast Hotel and chairman of the Sligo/Leitrim branch of the IHF all said they support the Western Rail Trail submission. Don Dirrane a leading Sligo hotelier also supports the plan.

    Community Groups grow in support: Athenry-Tuam Axis gets stronger

    Community groups from Athenry to Sligo are increasing in their support for the campaign. In Galway there is now a strong Athenry- Tuam axis of support for the greenway with thousands of people now in support of the idea from a number of organisations. In Sligo the Sligo Greenway Co-operative now has over 400 members who have committed to buy shares in the Sligo Greenway co-op. In Mayo, the fact that over 300 submissions were made to the county council two years ago asking for a greenway on the route and the Swinford Vision for the Future Survey in 2013 clearly shows there is huge public support for the idea in Mayo. The campaign estimate they now have over 10,000 supporters in Sligo Mayo and Galway based on internet support activity.

    Growing political Support:

    The pre-budget submission has been backed by three sitting TDs, Tony Mcloughlin (FG), John Perry (FG) and Colm Keaveny (FF) and two senators Lorraine Higgins (Lab) and Feargal Quinn (Ind), plus several councillors. In addition Sligo county council passed a motion in July 2014 calling on the government to provide fundings for a feasibility study on the route. This clearly shows the level of political support is increasing.

    Quinn said “The government is becoming increasingly aware of the growing tide of public opinion that sees a greenway on this route as a sensible thing to do until such time as a railway is possible, we know Irish Rail support the idea. Now we have groups such as Rail Users Ireland saying the same, leading west of Ireland business people backing the idea and a growing number of local politicians on board isn’t it time to act. There must be room in the budget and the capital expenditure on new projects for this idea which is not a multi-million euro project but which will deliver untold benefits. The time has really come to say. We are going to do it”


    ENDS: 816 words in main body text.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,779 ✭✭✭Carawaystick


    In light of the Routing of the Greenway from Athlone to Galway, there should be some serious consideration to getting a connection to Athenry.

    If a route is to be CPO'd from B'sloe a more direct route to Athenry like the M6/railway is probably better, and some new route south to Loughrea ( using some of the old rail line maybe?)


    I see there was 783 passengers per day using the wrc from Athenry to Ennis last year, according to the nta's survey. That's 65 passengers per train on average.

    808 people per day use Rush & Lusk station for a comparison.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 29,514 ✭✭✭✭end of the road


    with the greatist of respect, i'd hardly call the support for a greenway by rail users ireland a "bombshell"

    I'm very highly educated. I know words, i have the best words, nobody has better words then me.



  • Closed Accounts Posts: 652 ✭✭✭Muckyboots


    In light of the Routing of the Greenway from Athlone to Galway, there should be some serious consideration to getting a connection to Athenry.

    If a route is to be CPO'd from B'sloe a more direct route to Athenry like the M6/railway is probably better, and some new route south to Loughrea ( using some of the old rail line maybe?)


    I see there was 783 passengers per day using the wrc from Athenry to Ennis last year, according to the nta's survey. That's 65 passengers per train on average.

    808 people per day use Rush & Lusk station for a comparison.

    783 using Athenry-Ennis seems like healthy numbers when compared with population dense areas like Rush & Lusk to Dublin.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,318 ✭✭✭✭Grandeeod


    Muckyboots wrote: »
    783 using Athenry-Ennis seems like healthy numbers when compared with population dense areas like Rush & Lusk to Dublin.

    And herein lies your problem. You appear to be trying to use a population density argument in favour of Ennis-Athenry. If the state is willing to subsidise rail services across the board AND invest in new projects, then we don't have a problem. What people forget is that many arguments made against the WRC were based on historical evidence in relation to the states attitude to rail transport. The WRC doesn't cut it economically, especially when one considers that much of the network doesn't cut it either.


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,318 ✭✭✭✭Grandeeod


    with the greatist of respect, i'd hardly call the support for a greenway by rail users ireland a "bombshell"

    Its a bombshell when you consider their silence on the matter for the last 7 years. But I assume they are now merely siding with the obvious, which is no bad thing.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,363 ✭✭✭✭Del.Monte


    The Whest's still awake and so time for this again. :D



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,363 ✭✭✭✭Del.Monte




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,318 ✭✭✭✭Grandeeod


    Del.Monte wrote: »

    I thought that one was on the banned list!:D


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,363 ✭✭✭✭Del.Monte


    It's like all the "Downfall" parodies, it just won't go away - a bit like CIE. :D


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,779 ✭✭✭Carawaystick


    Muckyboots wrote: »
    783 using Athenry-Ennis seems like healthy numbers when compared with population dense areas like Rush & Lusk to Dublin.

    That number is for the entire Line, not trips between those two stations.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 15,605 ✭✭✭✭loyatemu


    That number is for the entire Line, not trips between those two stations.

    the entire line between Ennis and Athenry, or between Limerick and Galway?

    I suppose we can measure the numbers using the newly opened stations but can we measure numbers going from (say) Ennis to Galway or Limerick to Gort?


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,779 ✭✭✭Carawaystick


    Any passenger using any section of the line between Ennis and Athenry is in that 783 number.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,282 ✭✭✭westtip


    Any passenger using any section of the line between Ennis and Athenry is in that 783 number.

    could you please put up the link showing these figures,


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,779 ✭✭✭Carawaystick




  • Closed Accounts Posts: 652 ✭✭✭Muckyboots


    /Heavy_Rail_Census_2014_Full_Report.pdf[/url]
    printed page 25, actual page 27

    So passenger numbers are actually steadily falling on the Limerick-Galway line and the 783 reflects anyone that gets on a train at any station along the route. Makes it interesting how WOT can spin this as a success. I'm sure that they can show growth, and some opportunistic photographs of queues, of the Galway-Limerick weekly student migration, but outside of that the line looks like the dead duck we all suspected. You can't sustain a line on a seasonal, twice a week, heavily subsidised blip and this most certainly won't translate north of Athenry.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 24,924 ✭✭✭✭BuffyBot


    Let's keep the discussion in this thread to disused sections, as per the title


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,282 ✭✭✭westtip




    I don't want the wrath of moderation on top of me but IMO This discussion is quite relevant to the closed sections as the performance of Ennis-Athenry will have a bearing on any future decisions on the closed sections.

    from the above link the table shows these daily usage figures.
    Table 13 Daily Patronage on
    remaining Lines outside Cork
    and the GDA

    Galway - Athenry 2012 2013 2014
    Ennis – Limerick Line: 1,011 886 783

    I thought there had been great claims of the numbers going up, these figures show a marked decline from 2012 through to 2014. In terms of any chance of the closed sections re-opening these cannot be good news. I am a little confused by the figures as the certainly do not reflect other figures quoted by other sources, I think they need clarification but the trend figures are not good.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 1,844 ✭✭✭Banjoxed


    westtip wrote: »
    I don't want the wrath of moderation on top of me but IMO This discussion is quite relevant to the closed sections as the performance of Ennis-Athenry will have a bearing on any future decisions on the closed sections.

    from the above link the table shows these daily usage figures.



    I thought there had been great claims of the numbers going up, these figures show a marked decline from 2012 through to 2014. In terms of any chance of the closed sections re-opening these cannot be good news. I am a little confused by the figures as the certainly do not reflect other figures quoted by other sources, I think they need clarification but the trend figures are not good.

    Funny, I thought that this thread was about disused sections of the WRC. Tuam to Galway with connections to Dublin and Limerick at Athenry would be a distinct commuter/passenger service encouraging greater population densities in Tuam itself, and intelligent spatial planning in the West moving away from one off car dependent development. That's the way to sweat infrastructural assets and not squander them.

    That would be a greater benefit than any amount of comedy videos posted up here by cheerleaders for the status quo.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,739 ✭✭✭serfboard


    westtip wrote: »
    the performance of Ennis-Athenry will have a bearing on any future decisions on the closed sections.
    The performance of Ennis->Athenry has already directly affected the strategy adopted by WOT - they have now shifted to a mythical rail freight demand instead of passenger demand (since the numbers on Ennis->Athenry show that there is none) to promote their dwindling case.


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,610 ✭✭✭eastwest


    Banjoxed wrote: »
    There is a statement asserted as fact on the Sligo Mayo Greenway Campaign Facebook page that I personally know to be a lie. The individual(s) who made that statement did so knowingly presumably on the basis that any kind of statement, based on fact or otherwise, was grist to their cause. Now why is that?

    Do tell, I looked at their page and it has a lot of stuff on it. Which one is a lie?


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 1,844 ✭✭✭Banjoxed


    eastwest wrote: »
    Do tell, I looked at their page and it has a lot of stuff on it. Which one is a lie?

    Something was asserted as a fact by "Sligo Mayo Greenway Campaign". Ask them.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,610 ✭✭✭eastwest


    Banjoxed wrote: »
    Something was asserted as a fact by "Sligo Mayo Greenway Campaign". Ask them.

    I assume you mean this? I can't see them putting this up unless it's true, and I'm sure the various politicians would have an issue with it if it wasn't.
    It's the only statement I can see on their page, the rest of their recent stuff is just debate.

    "We like it when we get new politicians on board, so many thanks to Colm keaveney from the Galway East constituency for backing the Western Rail Trail pre-budget submission. Colm makes three sitting TDs with Tony Mcloughlin in Sligo a long time supporter and John Perry also in Sligo both putting their full weight behind the greenway. Thanks continue to go to Lorraine Higgins the galway based senator who has supported us tirelessly and now senator Feargal Quinn who has put his name to our pre-budget submission. It's great to have sitting TDs, and Senators in the Oireachtas who support us. We don't care about party politics but its good to see politicians who have the conviction to break away from the accepted norm. Thanks to Colm and Feargal for joining up to this campaign, your support is appreciated."

    I'm like a lot of people, I don't have time to trawl through all their posts going back over several years, so if this isn't the piece you're referring to, could you say what it is?


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,282 ✭✭✭westtip


    Banjoxed wrote: »
    Something was asserted as a fact by "Sligo Mayo Greenway Campaign". Ask them.


    Please do tell me what was asserted as fact and I will address it but without having a clue what you are talking about its difficult to do so. The SMG campaign allows open debate on its page, perhaps you could go on the page and tell them what lies you say they are giving out as facts, then the matter can be debated but your comment "something was asserted as a fact" is neither use nor ornament as a contribution to any debate. Let us know and it will be looked at. :rolleyes:


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 652 ✭✭✭Muckyboots


    Banjoxed wrote: »
    Funny comedy videos posted up here by cheerleaders for the status quo.

    Whatever you think about the pro and cons of trail or rail, you can't accuse either group of cheerleading the status quo. In my view it's only a matter or time before a ballsy Minister demands that all stakeholders come up with a usage solution (short, medium & long-term) or the "disused" sections will be redesignated "abandoned". That would soon put an end to staus quo, rhetoric and can kicking.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 1,844 ✭✭✭Banjoxed


    westtip wrote: »
    Please do tell me what was asserted as fact and I will address it but without having a clue what you are talking about its difficult to do so. The SMG campaign allows open debate on its page, perhaps you could go on the page and tell them what lies you say they are giving out as facts, then the matter can be debated but your comment "something was asserted as a fact" is neither use nor ornament as a contribution to any debate. Let us know and it will be looked at. :rolleyes:

    I had deleted the original post before eastwest got stuck in and reposted my deleted post in his reply. I agree that the best place to address this is on the Facebook page.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,610 ✭✭✭eastwest


    Banjoxed wrote: »
    I had deleted the original post before eastwest got stuck in and reposted my deleted post in his reply. I agree that the best place to address this is on the Facebook page.

    I'd still love to know what it was!
    You've made me curious, obviously it was something serious when you described it as a lie and not as a mistake or error.
    So, I'm only human, I'd love to know.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 652 ✭✭✭Muckyboots


    eastwest wrote: »
    I'd still love to know what it was!
    You've made me curious, obviously it was something serious when you described it as a lie and not as a mistake or error.
    So, I'm only human, I'd love to know.

    Maybe it's that the SMG post says John O'Mahony is standing in Galway East. He is in fact standing in Galway West. That's definately not a "lie".
    He'd be treated as a former Galway Football Manager in either constituency anyway and will probably get elected on this record rather than his rail not trail stance.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,610 ✭✭✭eastwest


    Muckyboots wrote: »
    Maybe it's that the SMG post says John O'Mahony is standing in Galway East. He is in fact standing in Galway West. That's definately not a "lie".
    He'd be treated as a former Galway Football Manager in either constituency anyway and will probably get elected on this record rather than his rail not trail stance.
    Could be that, although that's closer to a typo than a lie.
    Not sure I'd agree about his chances of being elected. Parachute candidates tend to have an uphill climb and there are some strong existing contenders in Galway West.


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,361 ✭✭✭Pete_Cavan


    Banjoxed wrote: »
    Tuam to Galway with connections to Dublin and Limerick at Athenry would be a distinct commuter/passenger service encouraging greater population densities in Tuam itself, and intelligent spatial planning in the West moving away from one off car dependent development.

    Ah here, thats a bit over the top. Even if it did have an affect on population densities in Tuam, it would be nothing near that needed to support a train service. And if it did have an affect in moving the West away from one off car dependent development, it would be minuscule in the greater scheme of things. Most people would probably drive to the station anyway.

    And is there even space on the line to Athenry for a meaningful Tuam - Galway service? It would more than likely be a shuttle from Athenry which would be better/faster/cheaper by buses on the new motorway.


This discussion has been closed.
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