Mayo GAA Discussion Part 2

Up to the other clubs to mimic what these clubs are doing to be competitive.
In particular:
- Competing consistently at A level underage (Knockmore/Breaffy)
- A very well organised senior setup (Ballintubber/Castlebar)
- Very well organised at U21 (Ballintubber)
- Very good at keeping lads going from U16 -> Minor -> U21 -> Senior (Knockmore/Ballintubber)
Ballintubber were not world beaters at U14/U16/Minor. But they are very good at turning lads into seniors.
Knockmore really seem to strengthen from U16 onwards. Where other clubs go backwards they get better and better.
An U21 with Knockmore is much more likely to go on and play competitive football at senior or Junior level.

Fr Tod Umptious wrote: »

Would Rochford be mad to take the Mayo job if offered at this stage in his managerial career ?

He would be taking on a team that is ageing, has a rebellious element, and has a history of failing to deliver on the big day.

Would it be career suicide.

Should he stay put and bide his time ?

If he can pull off the big one though, he'd be seen as a demi-god here, he'd never pay for a pint again.

Fully worth the risk IMO, we just haven't had a top class manager in a very long time, he could have the potential to be one from what I've seen of Corofin.

seligehgit wrote: »

Who are the realistic contenders for the job?Forget about all the paper talk and wishful thinking...

Rochford.

Fr Tod Umptious wrote: »

Would Rochford be mad to take the Mayo job if offered at this stage in his managerial career ?

He would be taking on a team that is ageing, has a rebellious element, and has a history of failing to deliver on the big day.

Would it be career suicide.

Should he stay put and bide his time ?

Zero risk.
If he wins an AI, then he'll be immortalised.
If he doesn't, then people will just say that the team have a lot of miles put in, were past their best etc.

The only way it can turn bad for the next manager is if they have a nightmare next year and the subsequent manager goes on to win an AI with them. But I think we all know that's not going to happen. If this Mayo team is to win an AI, it will be with the next manager

Fr Tod Umptious wrote: »

Saw Jack O Connor in Kilorglin just this evening.

He was on the phone to someone !

Jim McGuinness owns a phone as far as I know, perhaps he also used it today?

Exciting times in Mayo!

martyos121 wrote: »

Heard from a decent source earlier it may not be Rochford. That's all I've heard, didn't hear who it could be.

Surely the Mayo County Board are going to hold an open and transparent interview process for the job?!:pac:

Very dangerous road to go down,sure the County Board made an almighty mess of the last appointment process.I'd imagine that they'd be loath to repeat the same mistake and would go out of their way to conduct a more open and transparent interview process with some input from the players.People with the right expertise would want to be involved in this interview process obviously with a mind to the financial constraints that the County Board face.

If the players alone make a decision on who the next manager is there will be inordinate pressure on them to step up next year or in the event they don't,they'll have run out of excuses.

Shurimgreat wrote: »

The real mistake the county board made was to retain Horan after the 2013 AI final when he proved how tactically inept he could be. That game was really there for the taking and was thrown away. I'm convinced Mcstay won have won an AI with this group of players. 2014 was another year when a soft AI was to be had. Mayo shoot themselves in the foot every year.

You seem obsessed with this idea of the ideal tactical manager.

As I posted last week it take a lot more than tactical leadership to win an All Ireland.

You need players to play above and beyond themselves, or as we have seen in the last two years one team to play well below par, and you need a bit of luck.

They were right to give Horan another go in 2014, an inch higher from Hennelys free in the replay, a better shot from Cuniffe in the first game, or our two marquee player not clashing heads and we may have won it all.

Shurimgreat wrote: »

Or Cafferky being moved off Donaghy or Donaghy being double marked as Dublin did or a proper sweeper or taking off players playing sh1t or leaving on important players and so on. Management can and do lose games hence the reason for the current heave. Theres been some awful tactics in big games in recent years. Its frustrating for players who try their best to then see mistakes made on the sideline. The players deserve the best management possible.

The game was lost by the players...4 points up and they lost their nerve. Why is it that management are messiahs in Mayo when things are going well
and when Mayo lose they can't accept that the players just weren't good enough on the day. Management can't go out there and kick the sitters for the players or prevent them from committing stupid fouls that result in players being sent to the stand.
I am not a player basher in fact I have enough involvement in sport to realise that post mortems after a loss can be very negative on players that committed all year and sacrificed so much. However, if players had taken their chances against Dublin and finished out the game, NC and PH would not have been in the firing line. It seems unfair when having done so well for so long that these players haven't achieved the ultimate goal but they do have to take responsibility for their own short comings.
As a sportsperson I have great empathy for the management on this occasion. I wish the players would show such ruthlessness between the flags when it really matters.

Fr Tod Umptious wrote: »

Remember it was the players who started the ball rolling here, they may have someone in mind and may not be interested in an open and transparent process.

They can't have the "wrong" person being appointed again now can they.

Don't bother trying to be subtle there boss.

Fr Tod Umptious wrote: »

You seem obsessed with this idea of the ideal tactical manager.

As I posted last week it take a lot more than tactical leadership to win an All Ireland.

You need players to play above and beyond themselves, or as we have seen in the last two years one team to play well below par, and you need a bit of luck.

They were right to give Horan another go in 2014, an inch higher from Hennelys free in the replay, a better shot from Cuniffe in the first game, or our two marquee player not clashing heads and we may have won it all.

Yes there is some truth there, but you can't say the manager does not have a bearing on games.

Horan royally screwed up in not coming up with a plan to deal with Donaghy.
It was neglect on a gigantic scale.
He needed something similar to what H&C did this year to counteract Murphy.

A good or great manager can see things going wrong and make changes to counteract it.
They don't just stand there with their thumb up their ass hoping it changes.

If things aren't working for Kilkenny, watch how Cody changes it.
Compare Cody with Cunningham.
Would Cody have left Mannion on Callanan after he was being torn apart ?
No and that is why he has so many All Irelands and why Cunningham doesn't have a team that believe in him.

Also a good tactical manager can plan ahead for eventualities like Donaghy being thrown in at full forward or Murphy playing at full forward. (Yes I know these were Horans gaffs).
One of the big mistakes that H&C made was persevering with AOS at full forward when he was isolated.
Also they hadn't worked on a proper sweeper system to try and deal with the Dublin attack.
Yes they had come up with a basic plan to deal with Murphy, but Murphy and Donegal are not Dublin.

There are only a few instances where players have managed to actually negate the fact they have bad managers on the sideline and it is by playing to their max potential and having great leaders on the pitch.
The two examples that come straight to mind are both French.

France in 2006 soccer World Cup managed to reach final despite their complete muppet of a manager and France in 2011 rugby world cup reached final despite having another eejit as manager.
Both teams lost in final through bad luck really.
But they got that far thanks to some fantastic players and leaders on the pitch.

An inept management means certain players have to assume an even greater leadership role and it can be hard enough to win without adding more pressure onto some players.

A great manager can make average players winners, IMHO it is harder for great players and leaders on the field to make an average manager a winner.

Uncle Ben wrote: »

They're linking Rochford to the Mayo job now on Newstalk.

Just looked at their website now and there is a piece about him on it.

But it only talks about him being the favorite, which we all knew already.