TCD students cheer islamist Asghar Bukhari and his defence of the Charlie Hebdo k

Nodin · 03-10-2015 01:11PM

Boring username wrote: »

I would have to politely (.............)

Jaysus we're angry today. Did a lefty disturb your Saturday lie on?

KomradeBishop · 03-10-2015 01:14PM

(Boards randomly disappearing posts today is annoying - deleted this as I thought the post I replied to was deleted.)

Ya when you find people trying to rebrand anyone on the 'left' as Communists - which virtually nobody is these days (I think I've only ever seen one actual Communist on Boards, ever...), then you know they are either talking nonsense, or are themselves a 'useful idiot' who has bought into right-wing propaganda, which portrays anyone remotely on 'the left' as supporting Communism.

If you look at the US, the groups who commit the most frequent terrorist attacks, and are the greatest danger to people in the US, are actually home-grown right-wing extremists.
Prior to 2001, it was Timothy McVeigh - a right wing extremist - who had committed the worst terrorist attack in the countries history, killing 168 people in the Oklahoma bombing.

I mean, just compare the two, to see which set of extremists is more dangerous:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Left-wing_terrorism
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Right-wing_terrorism#United_States

Eugene Norman · 03-10-2015 01:15PM

Nodin wrote: »

It's amazing how some trinners students have become the ultimate leftwing "source of all that is evil". Hillarious too.

I don't trust O'Neill necessarily but they either cheered the killings or they didn't. If they did then they are, indeed a disgrace.

Saipanne · 03-10-2015 01:16PM

Boring username wrote: »

I would have to politely disagree with you. You see, in my experience, lefties come in two basic flavours:
Clueless but well meaning half wits who don't fully realise what they are getting themselves into (the classic 'useful idiots' as coined by Stalin). They usually grow out of the phase by their mid twenties when they realise the workers paradise ™ is the greatest scam perpetrated in the history of mankind, and it's just an excuse to replace one group of brutal bastards with an even worse group. Meet the new boss etc.....

Then you have the other group, the slick bloodthirsty cut throats who will happily defend each and every atrocity committed in the name of socialism and the state. Their fanaticism is practically indistinguishable from that of religious fanatics, in that their sense of extremist logical and rationality can excuse all sorts of barbarity and violence in the name of the, ahem, 'greater good'.

Either way, both groups are dangerous either because of their lack of the bigger picture, or their greater understanding of it. Just look at how the high priest of socialism Eric Hobesbawn was fawned over by the mainstream media when he died. This is the same 'intellectual' who argued that all the murders, the cutting of throats,
the brutal rapes,
the state surveillance,
the show trials,
the torture of innocents,
the brutal oppression by the jackboot of the state,
the massacre of civilians in Hungary,
the disappearing of intellectuals,
the assassination of artists etc

"would have been worth it if a genuine Communist society had been the result". :eek:

http://www.nytimes.com/2012/10/02/arts/eric-hobsbawm-british-historian-dies-at-95.html?_r=0

Make no mistake about it, these people are the most dangerous elements in society today, as their bloodthirsty ideology is carefully packaged and presented with a smiling, friendly appearance. Not to mention being tolerated by a drooling media that play along, instead of rightly telling them to fcuk off back to the abattoirs and killing fields of Russia and North Korea.

Can you imagine if a right wing group was given actually given airtime to argue that the holocaust or KKK lynchings would have been justified if 'only they had won'?

Top drawer. Well fücking said.

osarusan · 03-10-2015 01:21PM

Sounds ugly, but I'll wait for a source other that the writer who penned such masterpieces as:

Trans activists are effectively experimenting on children. Could there be anything more cruel?

Feminism becomes more like Islamism every day

and

Oh man, I hope it’s true that Cameron did that thing with a pig. He’d be King of the Lads

Nodin · 03-10-2015 01:22PM

Eugene Norman wrote: »

I don't trust O'Neill necessarily but they either cheered the killings or they didn't. If they did then they are, indeed a disgrace.

As we have no 3rd party at the moment, we can say nothing with certainity.

Old Jakey · 03-10-2015 01:29PM

Hatless wrote: »

Possibly (also it's ironic of him to say people should be able to say what they like no matter who it offends... and then get offended himself by how those students expressed themselves; "free speech" is an illusion - it does not exist in an absolute form, no matter where or what or who) but he is describing what actually happened, and it's a fair point that he makes:
There are moronic liberals (and I'd be pretty liberal myself) who will just latch on to any view that is the "correct" one for their ilk. Can you just IMAGINE if it was a white man on a campus making similar points about a massacre in which people "deserved" to be killed? You could only imagine, because it just would not happen.

These eejits would be very supportive of gay rights and feminism too, yet also islamic fundamentalism. Eh...

That's the thing. If Islam ever took over, these idiots would be among the first to be beheaded.

Smiles35 · 03-10-2015 01:53PM

So who's taking the horse to France?

LDN_Irish · 03-10-2015 02:01PM

Is there any evidence that this actually happened?

fullstop · 03-10-2015 02:03PM

Strider wrote: »

'Shame! Shame!'?

Its like he stumbled into the scene from Game of Thrones:

http://blog.chron.com/tubular/files/2015/09/shame-bell-game-of-thrones.gif

Or a water protest.

Very Bored · 03-10-2015 02:05PM

Unfortunately for those who would want to paint every left winger into a corner of being an over-liberal, misguided, ultra politically correct zealot, their argument is hogwash. Unfortunately for those who believe that to be left wing you have to be an over-liberal, misguided, ultra politically correct zealot, their thought processes are fashioned in a rubbish dump. Idiocy can be found in all walks of life and throughout the political spectrum.

Eugene Norman · 03-10-2015 02:14PM

This is a big site. Was anybody who posts here there? I don't trust O'Neill at all.

jimgoose · 03-10-2015 02:22PM

Eugene Norman wrote: »

Its definitely censorship by the institution

Denying the right to say "This guy is an arsehole and we do not wish to entertain his views on our platform" because he's a Government-approved Oppressed Beardo is veering sharply towards the old censorship ditch there, Ted!

captbarnacles · 03-10-2015 02:22PM

Old Jakey wrote: »

That's the thing. If Islam ever took over, these idiots would be among the first to be beheaded.

This has already happened in the Iranian Revolution. Once the islamists took power they had no more use for their allies on the left although they were hung rather than beheaded.

Martial9 · 03-10-2015 02:24PM

KomradeBishop wrote: »

If you look at the US, the groups who commit the most frequent terrorist attacks, and are the greatest danger to people in the US, are actually home-grown right-wing extremists.
Prior to 2001, it was Timothy McVeigh - a right wing extremist - who had committed the worst terrorist attack in the countries history, killing 168 people in the Oklahoma bombing.

I mean, just compare the two, to see which set of extremists is more dangerous:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Left-wing_terrorism
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Right-wing_terrorism#United_States

Why would we look to the US? We live thousands of miles away from the place and the vast majority of users here are not citizens.

We live in Ireland/Europe. We are Irish/European. Let us look at the stats there. Most terrorism in Europe is carried out by separatist and left wing groups. Is that why you suggested we look to a country thousands of miles away?

Nodin · 03-10-2015 02:49PM

Noblong wrote: »

So who's taking the horse to France?

The left have kidnapped the horse, France has been eaten by the muslims, cats have sex with dogs in the street, civilisation is ended.

Herb Powell · 03-10-2015 03:02PM

Wtf is up with all the vanishing posts??

Nodin · 03-10-2015 03:13PM

Herb Powell wrote: »

Wtf is up with all the vanishing posts??

Liberal left shot them. Tis sad.

Diceicle · 03-10-2015 03:18PM

February - Trinity Audio (not one under current discssion):
https://soundcloud.com/tlrhub/after-charlie-hebdo-a-public-forum-on-religion-freedom-and-human-rights

KomradeBishop · 03-10-2015 03:21PM

Diceicle wrote: »

Trinity Audio:
https://soundcloud.com/tlrhub/after-charlie-hebdo-a-public-forum-on-religion-freedom-and-human-rights

That was from February - don't think that's it.

Diceicle · 03-10-2015 03:24PM

KomradeBishop wrote: »

That was from February - don't think that's it.

Thanks, I've just realized this was an older talk. Have modified the above.

Bulbous Salutation · 03-10-2015 03:34PM

Nodin wrote: »

Liberal left shot them. Tis sad.

There's nothing remotely liberal about students attending a university in a social democracy such as Ireland agreeing with a hatemonger who defends acts of terrorism against a satirical magazine.

There's nothing of the old left about it either.

Stop being so flippant when you post.

Nodin · 03-10-2015 03:37PM

Bulbous Salutation wrote: »

There's nothing remotely liberal about students attending a university in a social democracy such as Ireland agreeing with a hatemonger who defends acts of terrorism against a satirical magazine.

There's nothing of the old left about it either.

Stop being so flippant when you post.

Sorry, I'll have my sad serious face on in future.

20Cent · 03-10-2015 05:40PM

Would take that story with a huge pinch of salt the author seems butt hurt the students didn't like him. He's a climate change denier and ani same sex marriage. Would need to hear other viewpoints. When a story lives up to all your prejudices it's often bull.

walshyn93 · 03-10-2015 05:44PM

KomradeBishop wrote: »

There is a concerted effort (and I mean that literally - a unified effort among a very wide variety of right-wing publications/authors) to slur 'the left' as acting in that way (and particularly in colleges), by cherry-picking the craziest-of-the-crazy minority of 'left' people, and painting them as representing the whole.

Most of that kind of writing, and bleating on about 'free speech' (as if being criticized for saying something offensive, makes the offensive person a 'victim' - and this is exactly what that O'Neill does, as you correctly allude to - which is nothing to do with free speech), is just propaganda used to try and whip up a controversy out of nothing, to generate more support for right-wing views.

Sure, you will get some loons on the left, spouting regressive/censoring views, but it's pretty much a 'storm in a teacup' type situation, where the views of a tiny minority are grossly disproportionately focused on.
It's my view, that the entire college-campus free-speech issue, is a mostly manufactured myth - that only exists among a tiny minority, and is not this big controversy that people make it out to be - it's just a handy talking-point.

What you never hear these people talk about, is how the financial funding of colleges affects what actually gets taught in these colleges, and itself has a chilling effect not just on free speech, but on the range of what people get taught.

The real controversy, is how financial control of colleges is corrupting what actually gets taught in them - and on how student access to college in many places, is increasingly becoming limited due to finances.

Agree strongly on the influence of big firms in dictating curriculum.

However , I disagree on your downplaying of the influence of this small minority of extreme leftists. Most students have little time to spend associating with such types and as a result tend to avoid these societies. Said types are the ones who flock to these societies. The rest of the society will be made up of unassertive types who let a small belligerent minority set the agenda. Or worse still, careerists who avoid controversy by sharing their real opinions. Nick Griffin not allowed appear yet Islamists are. Banning songs. Banning unpopular debates from occurring. These are things that a majority of students would be against but since they're so disenfranchised by the set up amd content provided by these organisations they don't bother to get involved. The problem is when the ones involved in the societies have the better CVs and connections and get into top positions as a result. They are then able to dictate public policy.

Bulbous Salutation · 03-10-2015 06:02PM

It doesn't matter if it was Richard Dawkins, Ian O'Doherty, Chris Hitchens (or the brother) giving the speech. The crux of the argument remains valid. The right to be offended is something we should all hold dear. You can be angered and riled about it. I'd even suggest it's a healthy thing to experience.

Tarzana2 · 03-10-2015 06:14PM

jimgoose wrote: »

It isn't censorship for an institution to select who comes to speak based on what their views are and the likely content.

It's still censorship, it doesn't matter if it's an institution. It's deciding what your students should be exposed to, rather than letting them make up their own minds.

Reminds of a docu I watched on the modern day KKK a few years back. They were doing a rally in the Deep South in front of a mostly white audience. Supporters, you might think? Nope, they were strongly jeered by the crowd and finished up quick smart. I'm glad this happened, showed they how little hold they now have.

KomradeBishop · 03-10-2015 06:26PM

walshyn93 wrote: »

Agree strongly on the influence of big firms in dictating curriculum.

However , I disagree on your downplaying of the influence of this small minority of extreme leftists. Most students have little time to spend associating with such types and as a result tend to avoid these societies. Said types are the ones who flock to these societies. The rest of the society will be made up of unassertive types who let a small belligerent minority set the agenda. Or worse still, careerists who avoid controversy by sharing their real opinions. Nick Griffin not allowed appear yet Islamists are. Banning songs. Banning unpopular debates from occurring. These are things that a majority of students would be against but since they're so disenfranchised by the set up amd content provided by these organisations they don't bother to get involved. The problem is when the ones involved in the societies have the better CVs and connections and get into top positions as a result. They are then able to dictate public policy.

You're making a huge stretch from students and student/college debates, all the way up to public policy - there is pretty much nothing to show a significant connection there at all.

It really is just a few crackpots, in a tiny minority of college's, that just receive hyper-intensive attention, because the Internet makes it easy to hype-up tiny events (especially if there's money thrown at that effort) that are completely insignificant in the large scale of things, and are not actually representative of colleges or students as a whole.

What does have a significant effect on public policy? Money - including from the same groups influencing what is taught in college (the real dangers to free speech and range of education - not the students who are victims of that) - when those same groups lobby/influence/corrupt government.

It's pretty obvious that right-leaning publications just try to blow the whole crackpot-students issue way out of proportion, to distract from the actual corruption of college/teaching and politics, from right-wing-dominated economic/financial/banking/business sources.

Ulysses Gaze · 03-10-2015 06:54PM

It always amazes me that the Progressive Left cosy up to Islamists who, on the basis of their speeches and writings, decry a lot of the freedoms that the Left espouse. Anti-Gay, Anti-Women, Anti-Free Choice.

Why would anyone on the Left support that?

To rub the Rights nose in diversity? To use lslamists as a weapon to undermine the State?

DEFTLEFTHAND · 03-10-2015 07:15PM

There's definitely something wrong with the site, I've been having trouble for the past day.

TCD students cheer islamist Asghar Bukhari and his defence of the Charlie Hebdo k

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