Is Irish culture too Anglophone?

Magico Gonzalez · 02-10-2015 07:14PM

Something not quite gone the way you wanted?

Blame the English. Sorted.

wakka12 · 02-10-2015 07:15PM

And what is wrong with anglophone culture may I ask. Would it be better if we had more dutch or french influence in our culture for some reason?

02-10-2015 07:15PM

garrixfan wrote: »

I have no problem with the brits no more than I have with Norwegians(Vikings) I still don't like how much English dominates our lives. It would be a far better country if we spoke Irish! Paradoxically we would be a more open people as a result imo.

It would be a far more isolated little nation if you spoke a language that is unique and restricted to Ireland. Speaking English as a first language is a big advantage on the international stage, as is speaking other common lingua franca, like Chinese.

bodice ripper · 02-10-2015 07:24PM

The insecure hysteria in the thread is hilarious.

There is nowhere like Ireland. If you think otherwise, you must not have spent much time anywhere else. It is definitely a distinct entity.

KungPao · 02-10-2015 07:33PM

bodice ripper wrote: »

There is nowhere like Ireland. If you think otherwise, you must not have spent much time anywhere else. It is definitely a distinct entity.

Absolutely. Actually I think it's amazing we are quite different to the English considering we were colonised by them, watch their telly channels, read their papers, speak their language etc.

However the US influence is quite strong in the middle class youngsters and hipsters. And as Eugene Norman said, many people here casually refer to US matters like anyone in Ireland should give a ****e.

LDN_Irish · 02-10-2015 07:35PM

Eugene Norman wrote: »

That's old school Anglo Irish, a legitimate older culture in this country. He doesn't sound English to English ears.

I dunno man, I was born in England and lived there until I was 10. A couple of years after living here I saw David Norris talking on the TV and said to my mother "oh, I didn't know they had English politicians over here."

wakka12 · 02-10-2015 07:36PM

garrixfan wrote: »

Look at people like David Norris with their phony English accents

A lot of old irish people sound english though, well more posh than english. You'll notice a lot of old american people have a similar kind of accent, posh and sounds a bit english.

LDN_Irish · 02-10-2015 07:37PM

Eugene Norman wrote: »

It's not that. Threads here are incredibly biased towards happenings in America or the kind of places America gives a **** about (Israel). We're fighting a proxy war between Anerican ideologies, the inane caterwauling of SJW vs Neocons.

It's inevitable that we wouldn't have much of an identity, as we were colonised by a country which is now itself culturally colonised by American culture and ideology.

You're bang on here though, tragic how we're emulating the worst example of how to run a developed country. Some of the stuff I read from Irish people on here is completely alien to me, it only exists on Irish internet, not the actual country.

LDN_Irish · 02-10-2015 07:40PM

wakka12 wrote: »

A lot of old irish people sound english though, well more posh than english. You'll notice a lot of old american people have a similar kind of accent, posh and sounds a bit english.

Can't say I've noticed that. Do they speak rhotically? Ie without pronouncing the letter "r" at the end of words. So butter is "buttah". David Norris does and it's very English.

johnny osbourne · 02-10-2015 07:41PM

pardon?

Tarzana2 · 02-10-2015 07:46PM

KungPao wrote: »

Too American, if anything.

Why does American influence bother people so much? I don't get it. It's not the cultural black hole people think it is, and we consume American film and television as much if not more than UK stuff.

Tarzana2 · 02-10-2015 07:49PM

MarkAnthony wrote: »

are about as liberal as Iran

Wut? Please don't be silly. Even at our most catholic-oppressed worst 50 years, we were more liberal than Iran.

Tarzana2 · 02-10-2015 07:57PM

bodice ripper wrote: »

The insecure hysteria in the thread is hilarious.

There is nowhere like Ireland. If you think otherwise, you must not have spent much time anywhere else. It is definitely a distinct entity.

Hysteria?

corazon · 02-10-2015 08:01PM

We live in the Anglosphere and that is a very good thing.

garrixfan · 02-10-2015 08:10PM

corazon wrote: »

We live in the Anglosphere and that is a very good thing.

I would prefer if we mimicked our Northern European Islander brothers in Iceland if I'm honest.

Barely There · 02-10-2015 08:18PM

garrixfan wrote: »

Imagine how different we would be if we were an island to the right of the Brits and left of the Dutch.

For the last 300 years we have very much been blocked out from the European experience by the Brits who do everything in their power to distance themselves from the mainland! That in turn has had an impact on the Irish, we don't see ourselves as an Island off Europe, we are an Island off another slightly bigger island.

Bloody Brits!
Blocking us off from being more European with thier landmass.

Bastards.

garrixfan · 02-10-2015 08:24PM

Barely There wrote: »

Bloody Brits!
Blocking us off from being more European with thier landmass.

Bastards.

I was watching a very interesting documentary and it mentioned how before the Roman Empire, Ireland was actually not an isolated country, it is only when you look at Europe from a Romancentric viewpoint that Ireland is isolated. But yes at one time Ireland(or the coast at least) was a very important location in a European context.

I have noticed that it is really only in 'little manchester'(dublin) where there is an aversion to all things foreign i.e non English. In other parts of Ireland I have heard of many people proud of their Irish and indeed European identity.

Vomit · 02-10-2015 08:33PM

garrixfan wrote: »

Imagine how different we would be if we were an island to the right of the Brits and left of the Dutch.

For the last 300 years we have very much been blocked out from the European experience by the Brits who do everything in their power to distance themselves from the mainland! That in turn has had an impact on the Irish, we don't see ourselves as an Island off Europe, we are an Island off another slightly bigger island.

If you want to know what that would have been like, just look to Scotland- tonnes of Dutch loanwords.

outsidein98 · 02-10-2015 08:40PM

The usual Irish navel gazing. Let's face it, if the French had colonised us. We would all be sitting around in cafes, speaking French, drinking vin with a Gauloises cigarette dangling from the corner of our mouths, eating snails and bemoaning the fact that we are too Francophone. If the Spanish had colonised us we would we would love Paella and bullfighting. If the Russians colonised us..... well we'd all be dead. Ask your Polish, Estonian, Lithuanian and Latvian friends.

We Irish had to be colonised. We're too small and too strategically placed not to be. Actually the French got here first. The Normans were French and remember they invaded and suppressed English, Anglo Saxon culture, they were French invited by an Irish king because of course like the GAA we were a series of squabbling kingdoms, not a country. The Irish identity barely exists. We are still about county, town, village, parish. Ballybackofbeyond first, Irish second.

In some way we're lucky the English won the battle to colonise us. We have the English language which is now paying dividends. But also bad as they were they're not as bad as the Germans or the Russians. We inherited their basically liberal mentality even if we did try to enslave ourselves to the Catholic church after independence, actually semi independence.

We have a robust democracy too. Another legacy of British culture. Magna Carta and all that.

But still I regret we weren't colonised by the French. I mean, wine and lovely food plus a certain joie de vivre! Vive la France!

garrixfan · 02-10-2015 08:41PM

Vomit wrote: »

If you want to know what that would have been like, just look to Scotland- tonnes of Dutch loanwords.

Interesting,
I'm always confused as to why Scotland doesn't appear to have more relations with the likes of Scandanavia. Perhaps they do and I just don't know about it, given their relative proximity I would have thought there would be a lot of interaction.

garrixfan · 02-10-2015 08:48PM

outsidein98 wrote: »

The usual Irish navel gazing. Let's face it, if the French had colonised us. We would all be sitting around in cafes, speaking French, drinking vin with a Gauloises cigarette dangling from the corner of our mouths, eating snails and bemoaning the fact that we are too Francophone. If the Spanish had colonised us we would we would love Paella and bullfighting. If the Russians colonised us..... well we'd all be dead. Ask your Polish, Estonian, Lithuanian and Latvian friends.

We Irish had to be colonised. We're too small and too strategically placed not to be. Actually the French got here first. The Normans were French and remember they invaded and suppressed English, Anglo Saxon culture, they were French invited by an Irish king because of course like the GAA we were a series of squabbling kingdoms, not a country. The Irish identity barely exists. We are still about county, town, village, parish. Ballybackofbeyond first, Irish second.

In some way we're lucky the English won the battle to colonise us. We have the English language which is now paying dividends. But also bad as they were they're not as bad as the Germans or the Russians. We inherited their basically liberal mentality even if we did try to enslave ourselves to the Catholic church after independence, actually semi independence.

We have a robust democracy too. Another legacy of British culture. Magna Carta and all that.

But still I regret we weren't colonised by the French. I mean, wine and lovely food plus a certain joie de vivre! Vive la France!

Kinda response I was looking for

Awesome The Normans though weren't really French were they? Always thought of them as Vikings who became 'French'(or whatever the concept of French was back then)
Its so confusing, its like one migration group moves from one place and invades the other, then a couple of hundred years later their descendants, invade the place of their forefathers haha

Paramite Pie · 02-10-2015 08:53PM

wakka12 wrote: »

And what is wrong with anglophone culture may I ask. Would it be better if we had more dutch or french influence in our culture for some reason?

Personally I'd like more local cultural influence -- our media output is far too small. Outside of sport, there's not a lot of Irish role models for young people to relate too, and all our successful personalities tend to migrate to the UK to build their careers.

garrixfan · 02-10-2015 08:58PM

Paramite Pie wrote: »

Personally I'd like more local cultural influence -- our media output is far too small. Outside of sport, there's not a lot of Irish role models for young people to relate too, and all our successful personalities tend to migrate to the UK to build their careers.

I also don't buy the whole language argument. Look at Sweden, Norway, Holland, they all speak fine English but have their own unique cultures.

jackofalltrades · 02-10-2015 09:04PM

garrixfan wrote: »

I have noticed that it is really only in 'little manchester'(dublin) where there is an aversion to all things foreign i.e non English.
In other parts of Ireland I have heard of many people proud of their Irish and indeed European identity.

I see you're upping your WUM game, hoping to get a better response calling Dublin people "Westbrits" and implying they aren't proud to be Irish.

KingBrian2 · 02-10-2015 09:11PM

Tarzana2 wrote: »

Why does American influence bother people so much? I don't get it. It's not the cultural black hole people think it is, and we consume American film and television as much if not more than UK stuff.

We should stop aping other countries and be ourselves. Their is nothing we don't know that can stop us from forming our own beliefs and values. Personally I find some British attitudes thoroughly distasteful. The Proclamation Declaration is the Irish version of the Magna Carta and Declaration of Independence.

zeffabelli · 02-10-2015 09:11PM

Ireland would be like Malta or one if those other dinky islands no one ever thinks about if it didn't speak English.

Yay English.

Buona Fortuna · 02-10-2015 09:21PM

zeffabelli wrote: »

Ireland would be like Malta or one if those other dinky islands no one ever thinks about if it didn't speak English.

Yay English.

But everyone speaks English in Malta. Maltese is spoken, but the signs are in English.

OhDearyMe · 02-10-2015 09:29PM

garrixfan wrote: »

I was watching a very interesting documentary and it mentioned how before the Roman Empire, Ireland was actually not an isolated country, it is only when you look at Europe from a Romancentric viewpoint that Ireland is isolated. But yes at one time Ireland(or the coast at least) was a very important location in a European context.

I have noticed that it is really only in 'little manchester'(dublin) where there is an aversion to all things foreign i.e non English. In other parts of Ireland I have heard of many people proud of their Irish and indeed European identity.

Romanophone.

oceanid · 02-10-2015 09:33PM

outsidein98 wrote: »

The Irish identity barely exists. We are still about county, town, village, parish. Ballybackofbeyond first, Irish second.

Irish identity does exist, it's just it's being lost as time goes on and moreso since joining EU etc.

All national identity has to start with the local. How else can you define it if it's not about where someone's from, grew up etc.

KingBrian2 · 02-10-2015 09:34PM

outsidein98 wrote: »

The usual Irish navel gazing. Let's face it, if the French had colonised us. We would all be sitting around in cafes, speaking French, drinking vin with a Gauloises cigarette dangling from the corner of our mouths, eating snails and bemoaning the fact that we are too Francophone. If the Spanish had colonised us we would we would love Paella and bullfighting. If the Russians colonised us..... well we'd all be dead. Ask your Polish, Estonian, Lithuanian and Latvian friends.

We Irish had to be colonised. We're too small and too strategically placed not to be. Actually the French got here first. The Normans were French and remember they invaded and suppressed English, Anglo Saxon culture, they were French invited by an Irish king because of course like the GAA we were a series of squabbling kingdoms, not a country. The Irish identity barely exists. We are still about county, town, village, parish. Ballybackofbeyond first, Irish second.

In some way we're lucky the English won the battle to colonise us. We have the English language which is now paying dividends. But also bad as they were they're not as bad as the Germans or the Russians. We inherited their basically liberal mentality even if we did try to enslave ourselves to the Catholic church after independence, actually semi independence.

We have a robust democracy too. Another legacy of British culture. Magna Carta and all that.

But still I regret we weren't colonised by the French. I mean, wine and lovely food plus a certain joie de vivre! Vive la France!

You have a confused sense of what colonialism is.

Is Irish culture too Anglophone?

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