Irish people fail English exam

Reiver · 27-09-2015 07:59PM #1

http://www.irishtimes.com/news/world/asia-pacific/english-test-derailing-irish-dream-of-australian-citizenship-1.2368668

"Mr Coates said 90 per cent of the Irish people who do the test fail it at least once."

Surely if this test is for foreigners a native speaker should pass with little difficulty? Or is Oz just trying to make a super utopian state with fantastic brain power?

endacl · 27-09-2015 08:07PM

Dey failed it cause nobody learned them to talk proper.

Incorrect use of tenses: I seen it. I done it. Etc.
Getting words mixed up. Synonyms.

Lots of reasons we might fail.

the groutch · 27-09-2015 08:08PM

Not surprised he failed, not easy to spell words like "strewth" and "flamin gallah".

AllGunsBlazing · 27-09-2015 08:08PM

Me fail English? That's unpossible!

Boom! Nailed it.

Reiver · 27-09-2015 08:14PM

AllGunsBlazing wrote: »

Me fail English? That's unpossible!

Boom! Nailed it.

In fairness its the trick questions like this that would get me.

mad muffin · 27-09-2015 08:18PM

Please repeat this sentence…

Three thirds and a third.

Irish guy…

Tree turds and a turd.

:pac:

Yeah… that's a fail.

27-09-2015 08:25PM

mad muffin wrote: »

Please repeat this sentence…

Three thirds and a third.

Irish guy…

Tree turds and a turd.

:pac:

Yeah… that's a fail.

Turd? Bleedin' yanks

Jinonatron · 27-09-2015 08:29PM

You can find the test at the following link:
http://takeielts.britishcouncil.org/prepare-test/free-practice-tests

questionmark? · 27-09-2015 08:30PM

So the guy is a native English speaker, who came to the country legally, has a trade and wants to win an Olympic medal for his adopted country but yet the Australians are making life hard for him. Makes sense???

Conall Cernach · 27-09-2015 08:32PM

I've noticed on programmes like Neighbours and Home and Away that Australians say "I" in a lot of cases where they should be using "me" e.g. they will say "that belongs to you and I" instead of "that belongs to you and me". Maybe they have different grammar rules there that trip up Irish English speakers.

Reiver · 27-09-2015 08:32PM

questionmark? wrote: »

So the guy is a native English speaker, who came to the country legally, has a trade and wants to win an Olympic medal for his adopted country but yet the Australians are making life hard for him. Makes sense???

My dad's from Tipp as well, I'd say he learned English to a certain degree to function. It's easy to confuse them with speakers of some corrupted offshoot of English but I'd say it evolved in a much different fashion in that misty land.

osarusan · 27-09-2015 08:33PM

This is the IELTS test.

I don't know how it is used in this case, but normally, you don't 'fail' the test, you just take it and get a score out of 40, which is used to calculate a score between 1 and 9.

It's a proficiency test very commonly used for entrance to universities - for example, a person trying to get into a Master's Degree in Computer Engineering at UL would need a 7 overall, and no lower than 6.5 in any infividual skill score (listening, reading, writing, speaking).

i have taught IELTS classes and courses many times, and while the test is tricky at times, I am surprised that any native speaker would score so low. To score under 7, a person would need to be getting 29/40 or lower.

Jinonatron · 27-09-2015 08:33PM

To be honest some of these English tests can be quite hard. There is a similar requirement if you want German citizenship however the German Government set the bar a bit lower than IELTs because German is ****ing impossible

Reiver · 27-09-2015 08:35PM

Jinonatron wrote: »

To be honest some of these English tests can be quite hard. There is a similar requirement if you want German citizenship however the German Government set the bar a bit lower than IELTs because German is ****ing impossible

We're lucky not to have cases in English. Even Irish has less than German!

keith16 · 27-09-2015 08:35PM

osarusan wrote: »

This ie the IELTS test.

I don't know how it is used in this case, but normally, you don't 'fail' the test, you just take it and get a score out of 40, which is used to calculate a score between 1 and 9.

It's a proficiency test very commonly used for entrance to universities - for example, a person trying to get into a Master's Degree in Computer Engineering at UL would need a 7 overall, and no lower than 6.5 in any infividual skill score (listening, reading, writing, speaking).

Seems very unfair for sure.

David Ingram, a linguist who is one of the designers of IELTS, agreed and said it was not meant to be used as an immigration test.
“It concerns me greatly,” he said. “And as a person who’s spent a lot of his life working in the area of testing, it seems to me that it is unethical to be using tests that have been developed for one purpose, for another.”

Fr_Dougal · 27-09-2015 08:35PM

To be fair, we do export a lot of Full Time Mad Bastards.

Nodin · 27-09-2015 08:37PM

Reiver wrote: »

http://www.irishtimes.com/news/world/asia-pacific/english-test-derailing-irish-dream-of-australian-citizenship-1.2368668

"Mr Coates said 90 per cent of the Irish people who do the test fail it at least once."

Surely if this test is for foreigners a native speaker should pass with little difficulty? Or is Oz just trying to make a super utopian state with fantastic brain power?

It seems they're just using the wrong kind of test

"David Ingram, a linguist who is one of the designers of IELTS, agreed and said it was not meant to be used as an immigration test.
“It concerns me greatly,” he said. “And as a person who’s spent a lot of his life working in the area of testing, it seems to me that it is unethical to be using tests that have been developed for one purpose, for another.”
Mr Ingram feels so strongly about the issue he has written to an Australian government productivity inquiry warning of a skills shortage unless skilled migrants are able to choose between a wider range of tests."
http://www.irishtimes.com/news/world/asia-pacific/english-test-derailing-irish-dream-of-australian-citizenship-1.2368668

Nodin · 27-09-2015 08:37PM

Fr_Dougal wrote: »

To be fair, we do export a lot of Full Time Mad Bastards.

True, we are good at that sort of thing.

questionmark? · 27-09-2015 08:38PM

Fr_Dougal wrote: »

To be fair, we do export a lot of Full Time Mad Bastards.

Did you bother to read the article? He certainly doesn't seem like one of our treasured FTMB.

DanielODonnell · 27-09-2015 08:38PM

There are many people in Dublin who actually have English as their ancestral language if you know what I mean whereas in the actual United Kingdom there are thousands who have Irish/Welsh and Scots Gaelic as their ancestral language, an odd set up. You could say the same about the colonies regarding English.

theteal · 27-09-2015 08:40PM

Conall Cernach wrote: »

I've noticed on programmes like Neighbours and Home and Away that Australians say "I" in a lot of cases where they should be using "me" e.g. they will say "that belongs to you and I" instead of "that belongs to you and me". Maybe they have different grammar rules there that trip up Irish English speakers.

Cannot tell if taking the piss. . .

The King of Moo · 27-09-2015 08:46PM

I'm not surprised at all to hear something like this.

I've spent a lot of time teaching IELTS-preparation classes to non-native speakers.

First of all, it's designed as a test of Academic English for people wishing to enter English-language universities. The level of vocabulary is very high, about Masters level, and ranges across a lot of disciplines.
The reading section forces you to really parse complex ideas in academic texts in a short period of time.
The speaking section and Writing Task 2 require one to use formal, structured language only used in academic writing (even in Academia, no-one speaks like a student doing the speaking section).
Writing Task 1 requires you to write a report on a graph. You have to quickly decide what the most important features are and how to arrange the information, and then write your piece in 20 minutes.

It's also a very tricky exam, with lots of distractors to confuse people who aren't completely on the ball.

An average native speaker with little to no preparation would probably struggle to get more than 6.5 out of 9.0. The test is so hard and with a strict time limit that even as a very experienced EFL teacher I wouldn't expect to get a 9.0 without some luck.

It's ridiculous that Australia are using it for immigration purposes. I can't help thinking it's to deter would-be immigrants.

BrokenArrows · 27-09-2015 08:48PM

Conall Cernach wrote: »

I've noticed on programmes like Neighbours and Home and Away that Australians say "I" in a lot of cases where they should be using "me" e.g. they will say "that belongs to you and I" instead of "that belongs to you and me". Maybe they have different grammar rules there that trip up Irish English speakers.

I assume you're taking the piss but then I might be making an ass out of you and me.

Precious flower · 27-09-2015 08:49PM

theteal wrote: »

Cannot tell if taking the piss. . .

I think what he/she means is that in that sentence it should be "you and me" not "you and I". A little trick to know when to use it is to take out you and just leave the "I" or "me" in the sentence. You wouldn't say "that belongs to I" so you use "me". You don't use I all the time when referring to yourself and another person, it depends if it suits the sentence or not.

StonyIron · 27-09-2015 08:52PM

It's not surprising as it's an exam aimed at second language speakers who've learnt English on a structured way.

It's very common that native speakers would miss technical grammar rules and various other things.

No doubt the Aussies will use this as one of their many Irish bashing exercises!

osarusan · 27-09-2015 08:55PM

UK visa process has used IELTS for quite a few years now.

StonyIron · 27-09-2015 09:01PM

osarusan wrote: »

UK visa process has used IELTS for quite a few years now.

That would be the IELTS Life Skills test.

You also absolutely have to do a course to score well in those exams. Native speakers cannot just rely on their native speaking skills.

DanielODonnell · 27-09-2015 09:01PM

osarusan wrote: »

UK visa process has used IELTS for quite a few years now.

for the exact same reason as the irish republic, places like wales, certain areas of scotland and northern ireland were not meant to be speaking english and so are poor at speaking it correctly.

BrokenArrows · 27-09-2015 09:02PM

I'd also say that a lot of irish English speakers don't speak gramatically correct english at all. Not even close, even if they tried.

I consider myself a well spoken person and my girlfriend is not a native English speaker. She often asks me grammatical questions as to why I say one thing vs another. Generally I haven't a clue. I say its because that's the way I was thought.

Edit: my Australian housemate also failed the English language test for a British passport.

StonyIron · 27-09-2015 09:03PM

osarusan wrote: »

UK visa process has used IELTS for quite a few years now.

That would be the IELTS Life Skills test.
It's purpose designed for that purpose.

You also absolutely have to do a course to score well in those exams. Native speakers cannot just rely on their native speaking skills.

Australia seems to be using the general IELTS and is expecting scores most Australians wouldn't be able to achieve.

It's more about being a crude tool to exclude low skilled immigrants than anything else.

Being a citizen of another English speaking country is no guarantee that you speak English either and also Ireland sometimes get dumped into non English speaking by some bureaucrats as we've officially declared Gaeilge as our first language for cultural reasons.

I had this problem in Belgium where someone argued that point with me and assumed that most Irish people must be second language English speakers based on how she'd read the official line from our government! It does read that way if you didn't understand the cultural nuances of Ireland's language laws.

Sheep Lover · 27-09-2015 09:04PM

How many scousers or geordies would pass it?

Irish people fail English exam

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