DART Underground - Alternative Routes

GerardKeating · 27-09-2015 11:32AM

TMOrules wrote: »

Does anyone know why the dart underground is two seperate tunnels vs one tunnel with lines running both directions for metro north, im guessing it is something to do with the size of the trains or a safety issue with running trains side by side??

Imagine a head on collision between two crowded rush-hour DARTS's 80 meters below surface.

Sam Russell · 27-09-2015 12:52PM

GerardKeating wrote: »

Imagine a head on collision between two crowded rush-hour DARTS's 80 meters below surface.

Imagine a Dart leaving the tracks in a tight tunnel 80 metres below the surface with the tunnel filled with mangled train and passengers in various states of distress. Or even a Dart on fire = we saw this the other week in the port tunnel.

GerardKeating · 27-09-2015 02:00PM

Sam Russell wrote: »

Imagine a Dart leaving the tracks in a tight tunnel 80 metres below the surface with the tunnel filled with mangled train and passengers in various states of distress. Or even a Dart on fire = we saw this the other week in the port tunnel.

So you rather the DART Interconnector stay above ground?

Sam Russell · 27-09-2015 02:08PM

GerardKeating wrote: »

So you rather the DART Interconnector stay above ground?

What makes you think that? How can Dart Underground be above ground?

Every design has its problems and advantages. Single tunnel is cheaper but could have problems following a derailment. A twin bore has significant problems in the case of a train crash and in the case of a fire. You take your choice.

I do not know the facts required to make a choice - I would allow the engineers who know to make those choices.

GerardKeating · 27-09-2015 07:31PM

Sam Russell wrote: »

What makes you think that? How can Dart Underground be above ground?.

I said "DART Interconnector" not "DART Underground".

That was actually a plan, in the late 19th Century, to build a rail line from the Loop line near Tara Street to Hueston, this would have crossed Westmoreland, D'Ollier streets and roughly followed Fleet Streert, Essex Street, Cook Street till it reached Hueston Station.

monument · 27-09-2015 07:37PM

GerardKeating wrote: »

I said "DART Interconnector" not "DART Underground".

That was actually a plan, in the late 19th Century, to build a rail line from the Loop line near Tara Street to Hueston, this would have crossed Westmoreland, D'Ollier streets and roughly followed Fleet Streert, Essex Street, Cook Street till it reached Hueston Station.

Yeah, that's now less likely to happen than the above ground versions of the eastern bypass.

GerardKeating · 27-09-2015 08:25PM

monument wrote: »

Yeah, that's now less likely to happen than the above ground versions of the eastern bypass.

My crayons, my Route

StonyIron · 27-09-2015 08:35PM

This stuff should have been planned a long time ago. That's the major issue with everything. Short term, constantly changing plans.

A lot of Dublin could have been served by above ground heavy rail if it has been planned in when the surburbs were originally being built.

It's like building your kitchen first and then suddenly realising you'll need water, gas and electricity!

D.L.R. · 27-09-2015 09:10PM

Elevated rail like high rise its just something the Irish psychology rejects as being too much of an infringement on the senses.

But personally quite like overground railways in cities. Berlin has some great examples, and London. And it might be unpopular with some but I like the loop line too.

Sure parts of Dublin couldn't be any worse aesthetically and socially, can't see the harm an elevated railway would do.

StonyIron · 27-09-2015 09:23PM

Vancouver's Skytain actually looks quite cool.

random_guy · 28-09-2015 08:22PM

D.L.R. wrote: »

Elevated rail like high rise its just something the Irish psychology rejects as being too much of an infringement on the senses.

But personally quite like overground railways in cities. Berlin has some great examples, and London. And it might be unpopular with some but I like the loop line too.

Sure parts of Dublin couldn't be any worse aesthetically and socially, can't see the harm an elevated railway would do.

Very true.
Recently I was in the area around Zoo and Savignyplatz and they've some great cafes, restaurants etc in under the line. It's very well done.

McAlban · 28-09-2015 10:42PM

random_guy wrote: »

Very true.
Recently I was in the area around Zoo and Savignyplatz and they've some great cafes, restaurants etc in under the line. It's very well done.

Yes it's non obtrusive. Very handy to get the S-Bahn into Hackescher Markt of an eveing and pop into one of the Bars/Restaurants under the arches.

liam24 · 28-09-2015 11:29PM

random_guy wrote: »

Very true.
Recently I was in the area around Zoo and Savignyplatz and they've some great cafes, restaurants etc in under the line. It's very well done.

It wouldn't work in Dublin. It fits perfectly in Berlin because it has wider streets and taller buildings.

BowWow · 29-09-2015 04:47PM

All the info today on Metro North quotes times to the Airport from O'Connell St. According to many posters on this thread the centre of Dublin is SSG. Should the times quoted not be from SSQ? :rolleyes:

donvito99 · 29-09-2015 06:21PM

BowWow wrote: »

All the info today on Metro North quotes times to the Airport from O'Connell St. According to many posters on this thread the centre of Dublin is SSG. Should the times quoted not be from SSQ? :rolleyes:

SSG is a trip generation centre. The traditional centre of Dublin is the GPO on O'CS.

I think you knew that too.

alias no.9 · 30-09-2015 02:55PM

It would seem that the now funded revised Metro North will melt the wax in the crayons

The College Green Interchange just revised its status from Imaginary Utopia to Guinness Light

/thread

strassenwo!f · 04-10-2015 10:15AM

I do want to place on the record of this thread my sincerest apologies for a reprehensible slur on the poster Monument.

Monument is one of the few posters on boards.ie whose identity I know. From what I know of him, he is a hardworking person, who is trying to improve things in Dublin, and in Ireland generally, in many ways. And I hope he will continue to do so.

Ireland is undoubdetly a better place for having Monument in it. If I was living in Ireland, I'm not absolutely sure I could say the same about myself.

I haven't always agreed with him - on this thread, the thread about metro north, or the main thread about DART Underground project - but this was mostly about his interpretation of the facts presented.

In many cases, those facts were presented to the board by Monument. Not by me, not by anybody else. Monument found them by hard work, diligence and persistence, presented them to the board, and helped improve our understanding of the issues at hand.

Monument, my most sincere apologies for an unforgivable slur. I am appalled that I was able to post such stuff.

strassenwo!f · 18-10-2015 08:10PM

alias no.9 wrote: »

It would seem that the now funded revised Metro North will melt the wax in the crayons

The College Green Interchange just revised its status from Imaginary Utopia to Guinness Light

/thread

This thread has been almost entirely about the routing of the DART Underground project, the public consultations related to it, the costs involved, the throughput of trains through the tunnel, and a number of related issues. I think this project, done right, makes enormous sense, and I would love to see this project happen.

From the NTA's latest report and plan for Dublin, for the years up to 2035, which does not include any DART Underground project, of whatever route, I think we should unfortunately say:

/project

I believe this is a major error. While it probably wouldn't initially have had the passenger volume you'd like to see, because of the limited number of trains initially envisaged to go through it, the capacity of this tunnel, once it was seen in operation, should have eventually encouraged much greater use of it.

Apart from that, it would have ensured that any future LUAS or metro lines travelling between the north and the south of the city would have had access to the highest capacity DART line, pretty much whatever route they had to take.

It is a major mistake not to build it.

strassenwo!f · 23-01-2016 06:36PM

The main argument which has been used here against building something approximating Telchak's nice route above is: 'it's too busy'.

It seems to me that, in most cities, the 'it's too busy' argument leads to construction at that location, underground, in order to make it less busy, overground.

Dublin is the only city I have yet found where this 'Its too busy' argument has been used to build an underground station at somewhere other than the location which is too busy.

Can anyone think of another city where this has happened?

murphaph · 24-01-2016 09:48PM

Thread's dead man.

MJohnston · 25-01-2016 04:15PM

murphaph wrote: »

Thread's dead man.

strassenwo!f · 31-01-2016 10:25AM

It is abominably hard to visit boards.ie these days. And I'm not sure what that last post was about. A guy revving up a motorbike (was that Bruce Willis?). Difficult to see the relevance.

Anyway, this thread's not dead. An interconnector would be a very important project for the city, to link lines in both the west and the east of the city, to increase the capacity of the lines in both those areas, and also to provide access for whatever north/southLUAS/Metro lines are to be built in the future to the overground rail network.

Most of this thread has been taken up by discussion of College Green (which I favour)as an alternative to St. Stephen's Green, for the most central station on this important project which, in my opinion, will have to happen at some stage.

Other ideas may emerge.

If they do, then this would be the most apropriate thread for discussion of their merits.

Grandeeod · 03-02-2016 08:10PM

strassenwo!f wrote: »

It is abominably hard to visit boards.ie these days. And I'm not sure what that last post was about. A guy revving up a motorbike (was that Bruce Willis?). Difficult to see the relevance.

Thread is dead and then a little vid showing a motorbike speeding off. It's rather obvious.

Anyway, this thread's not dead. An interconnector would be a very important project for the city, to link lines in both the west and the east of the city, to increase the capacity of the lines in both those areas, and also to provide access for whatever north/southLUAS/Metro lines are to be built in the future to the overground rail network.

We know.:rolleyes:

Most of this thread has been taken up by discussion of College Green (which I favour)as an alternative to St. Stephen's Green, for the most central station on this important project which, in my opinion, will have to happen at some stage.

Sure lets tear down Temple Bar and build a new bus/rail station as originally envisioned. We can route the interconnector under that instead. Hey, we can spend the next 30 bloody years talking about it too!

Other ideas may emerge. If they do, then this would be the most apropriate thread for discussion of their merits.

It sure would.

While nothing ever gets built.

strassenwo!f · 06-02-2016 01:35AM

I was interested to see an article in one of the Irish papers this week, about the City Council proposing full pedestrianisation (bar the LUAS) of College Green.

This proposal may all, of course, be total bollix, but my ha'p'worth would be that the plans of DCC - and the other bodies involved - should primarily focus on how this proposal might be used to eventually improve public transport through that specific area, over what it now has.

(Much as discussed earlier in the thread)

Central plazas are nice, and good.

Central plazas which are nice, and good, and whose construction is aimed at being directly very useful to the citizens of that city, are considerably better.

strassenwo!f · 06-02-2016 09:51AM

It hardly needs to be added for the board - though I'm going to add it now just to be sure - but there is really no point in going through the considerable disquiet from local businesses, the general upheaval in the city and, most importantly, the disruption to current public transport operations that would be involved in such a proposal, if you're not eventually going to produce something better for the city as a whole.

Building a nice plaza to allow people to wander from one outdoor cafe to another, while admiring the nice view of/in this plaza, would fall a long way short of that, for me.

strassenwo!f · 08-02-2016 07:34AM

As discussed earlier in the thread, Irish Rail told An Bord Pleanala that they looked at two station possibilities in this key area - College Green wasn't one of those two.

I think that the City Council and Irish Rail might benefit from sitting down together to discuss their proposals: pedestrianisation of College Green and the Dart Underground.

strassenwo!f · 08-02-2016 10:08AM

It could be a good opprtunity to remove the rather large St. Stephen's loop from the plan

As discussed extensively on this thread, that big St Stephen's Green loop never seemed to be very convincing, in terms of passenger uptake, and would certainly have been longer - and thus probably more expensive.

In most cases, though certainly not always, the direct route between A and B is the sensible one. It's very hard to see why Dublin is an exception to the rule.

That username is already in use. · 08-02-2016 11:12PM

strassenwo!f · 09-02-2016 10:10AM

I would think that the tumbleweed really belongs on the original 'Dart Underground' thread, wherever that might be.

To me, it makes considerable sense to link the rail lines in the East and West of the city and deliver a rail connection to the very busiest parts of the city. It is a project which Dublin should do, and very probably needs to do if it is to remain up there.

murphaph · 09-02-2016 12:58PM

The original 'Dart Underground' thread is dead. This one is too of course, but you have it on a life support machine and refuse to pull the plug :pac:

DART Underground - Alternative Routes

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