Schoolboy with '10-a-day habit' has e-cigarette confiscated by teachers

starling wrote: »

I'm going cold turkey on this thread because my doctor has advised me that exposure to idiocy, hypocrisy and smug self-righteousness may be hazardous to my health. I'm sorry nobody joined in with your finger-pointing OP.

Just gonna leave this here:

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/health/children/4126202/Parents-who-smoke-only-in-garden-may-still-harm-children-doctors-warn.html

Eh? I wasn't 'finger pointing' anything. I wanted to start a discussion and I used that case to do it. I've never said I wasn't a hypocrite, nor and idiot, and I've already acknowledged that I'm being self-righteous about a parent who allowed her 14 year old child to smoke, to vape, whatever, and then complained about the school intervening without her consent.

If it makes you feel any better, I'd say the same of any parent that allowed their child to smoke, enabled them to vape, and complained about school policy and intervening without their consent, when they don't want the other students being encouraged to take up the habit.

And your link was one of the reasons I gave up smoking normal cigarettes, yes. I'm sure it'll be useful to someone else here who wasn't aware of it though so cheers for that at least.

Deleted User wrote: »

You know neither of those "facts" replies to a single thing I just said right?

I thought the link to the WW article was suggesting that there was no correlation between a person's judgement regarding the health risks of smoking, and whether they were or were not a parent? My reply was suggesting that at 14, the child would be aware of the health risks of smoking, as would their parent. The health warnings are clearly visible on every cigarette pack sold in the UK, similar to the health warnings we have on cigarette packs here in Ireland -

Since December 2002 manufacturers have complied with UK regulations requiring a 30% front-of-pack health warning and 40% back-of-pack warning.

On 1st October 2008, pictorial warnings were introduced in the UK. The last permitted date for sell-through of cigarette products with text only was 30 September 2009. The last permitted date for manufacture of other tobacco product’s textual warnings was 30 September 2009, with a last date for sell-through of 30 September 2010.

Source: Tobacco Manufacturers Association

And how much do you think "health implications" matter to a young teen exactly? Have you dealt with many of them? They are young and feel invincible. Do you remember how that feels? Cancer - AIDS - Rape - whatever - these things are always things that happen to "other people" when you are that age. Knowing the health implications means squat. Get real for once.

However much the health implications matter to a young teen is irrelevant. How much the health implications matter to the parents of children who are smoking or vaping is what's actually relevant. It's part of a parents role to inform their children about these matters, and to prevent them before they become an issue. The correct course of action IMO is absolutely not for the parent to complain about the school policy regarding smoking, nor to claim that they have intervened without her consent. The parent is aware of the school rules. I don't think I'm the person needs to get real here.

As for the parent - again ready the WW article for laughs on that one - but also remember the turmoil of grief that allegedly surrounded the kids taking up smoking. Stop projecting your own self ascertained clarity on someone who clearly did not share it at the time. MANY parents do not cop their kids are smoking - and you want to judge a parent going through above average turmoil and grief? Get over yourself.

No, I want to judge a parent for allowing their 14 year old child to smoke, and as I said earlier, I would judge any parent that allowed their 14 year old child to smoke, as an idiot, regardless of all the other idiocy.

You need to read that WW article again Perhaps some of the actual parents on this forum can tell us how successful simply taking ciggs off a smoking child was to break the habit. Lets here how that worked out in general. Because of course they would never get a lendy off another kid at school - or they will always use their pocket money wisely or usefully - or there was not always a bigger kid ready to pour affection on attention - or - or - or - the reality of youth appears to have passed you by in many ways.

I'll be sure to come back and let you know if my child ever does decide to take up smoking, and how that works out for them. You may take it that if I encounter them smoking while they are still a child, I will do whatever is necessary within my power to stop them. The reality of youth may have passed me by, but the reality of my responsibility towards my child certainly hasn't.

HAs anyone here got any idea what the "smoking cessation program" entailed exactly? Who ran it - who financed it - and how was it structured? I only ask because I know what it was in my boys school in Raheny. It involved going up the priests office - sitting with him having a smoke - and him asking "why are we both doing this anyway - its killing us?" and that was about it.

Sounds like yourself and the priest had a good time then. I don't think that's what a modern smoking cessation program involves though. I'd presume it has more to do with discouraging children from smoking, rather than encouraging the behaviour.

Deleted User wrote: »

Well you missed the point by a long shot did you not. The link was about the judgmental parenting advice you were throwing around without credence. The whole "Look at me on the pedestal talking about how parenting should be done" thing

Ahh, you're right, I did indeed miss the point then, but I don't think I'm alone in suggesting that allowing a parent who allows their 14 year old child to smoke, is an idiot. That's not "look at me on the pedestal", that's "What the hell was this woman thinking allowing her 14 year old child to smoke?". When she found out about his smoking habit, she decided patches and so on would be useful, and therefore it can be assumed from the lack of success, that she continued to allow her child to smoke. Then her child was introduced to an electronic cigarette (headline says he was given it by his mother, article says it was purchased by his brother, either way, the child's parent still allowed them to continue to feed their nicotine addiction).

And my reply was informing you just how irrelevant that is. For a child or teen who feels themselves invincible - and to a parent who just lost their spouse to death and might not be entirely clued in to the vagaries of their childs new habits.

Do you have any evidence that the child feels themselves invincible, or did you just assume that, because I see no mention of it in the article? I had hoped to broaden the discussion out to discuss children smoking in general, and not simply to have focussed on the parent in this parent in this particular case, but people seem to have taken issue with my judgement of the parent as an idiot for allowing her 14 year old child to smoke, and then she complained about the school intervening without her consent when their policy strictly forbids students from smoking.

People really focussing on what's important there.

No - but you are the person who needs to scroll back and realise this was around the area I agreed with you. Do keep up

I'm trying to, but if you could explain it to me like I'm a two year old, I'd really appreciate it

Its the "allowing" part that you fail here I think. The child took up smoking during a period of intense turmoil. How aware have you established - from your pedestal - she was about it? Stop calling her an idiot for a moment and get human. From what paltry information we have in this thread the only assumption open to us is that it was entirely outside her sphere of control.

I addressed this earlier. I find it hard to reconcile the idea of a parent who allows their 14 year old child to smoke, with the idea that they aren't an idiot. We're all human of course, but that neither excludes us from the judgement of others, nor does it excuse our idiocy, and as one poster earlier pointed out, I myself am not above anyone else in terms of the many idiotic things I've done in my life. Fortunately at least, it was only I who suffered the consequences and judgement of my own idiocy. I didn't try to pass that off as anyone else's responsibility, as this woman seems to have done in claiming that the school intervened without her consent in implementing their own policy.

Your constant use of the word "allow" suggests the reality of your control over such a creature HAS however.

You say that like there's something negative in the fact that I have that control? I find it rather useful myself in preventing my child from ingesting harmful toxins into their body.

Or more correctly you have not thought at all. Which is why I asked the question. Too many people hear the words "Cessation program" and think "Well thats alright then".

Sure - but what is the program? Who finances it? By what guidelines is it structured? Is it specific to the school? Is it an established program over a wider district? Who runs it? What does it consist of?

Should I go on? The point is clear - that the value of an institution simply offering a program is entirely dependent on what that program entails.

If you'd cared to have read the thread, pardon me for assuming that you did, you'll see we're pretty much on the same page on that one as I had already asked similar of other posters myself -

One eyed Jack wrote: »

I don't know tbh, but it's the first time I'd ever even heard of a 'smoking cessation programme'. I'd love to know how common they are or if anyone else has ever heard of them or indeed as you say how effective they are in preventing and discouraging children from taking up the habit in the first place, let alone getting them off them.

I will admit the value of your anecdote was a little unclear as it didn't sound like any sort of a cessation program, it sounded more like an adult who encouraged you to smoke.

Deleted User wrote: »

Which AGAIN is why I linked to that article because it is where your credibility ends. Your idea of what parents "allow" to happen seems to be a long way off from reality

You're going to have to enlighten me about what you mean by that in relation to parents who allow their children to smoke?

Oh I have to stop here then - you have more information that me. Do tell! When did he start - when did she find out - and at what point did she find out? And what did she do then? And how did it all lead up to an E-ciggie as a solution? Let us know how it all went down Jack

Well if you'd read the first line of the article I posted, you'll see that she continues to allow her child to smoke -

She said hopes that her son will kick the smoking habit soon but is angry that teachers intervened without her consent.

(that's not my bad grammar this time; that's a direct quote from the article itself)