Cork GAA Discussion Thread

Gary Neville wrote: »

TTM, You seem to be well informed wrt many aspects of Cork GAA so I'm surprised that you aren't aware of the significant improvements at the CCB due to Ger Lane and other more progressive people elected to the Executive. Lane's people are finding progress difficult due to Frank and his solid support base - however - they are making slow but sure progress. Liam Weir thanked the Chairman, at the recent CB meeting, for resolving the Sciath na Scol issue - that was significant.

We've finally got a Chairman that is prepared to stand up to Frank and do what's right for Cork GAA -and Tracey Kennedy is likely to continue this trend.

Lane succeeded in getting ex players involved in selecting the Senior IC Managers and that was critical. Nick Murphy was the conduit for the current players expressing a strong preference for Cleary. There was huge support for Cleary amongst his colleagues on the 1990 panel and Sunday's get together in CP allowed these people to express their views, in no uncertain terms. Frank was very much aware that the other 4 members of the committee, strongly favoured Cleary and whilst he never officially opposed them, he accepted the inevitable and the matter was effectively decided in Sunday.

Frank is Frank and the fat lady is still clearing her vocal cords but I'm hopeful that he can't gerrymander this one.

Gary you are wrong as usal
You have been missing here recently no surprise but if you actually looked back few days ago I said I wouldn't be surprised clearly was back in the hunt
It had actually nothing to do with lane to any great degree and if it did clearly never pulled out the race ist time but players made stand even hinted in the paper senior players stood up made it clear after Sunday wanted clearly and weren't happy and then lane and co had to change


As your views school don't kid yourself
As I said clearly two weeks ago post check if you want school would win and he be washed under carpet as once went public and shannon paper said he'd write more it board again over pairc can't do drama now so lane was put forward sort it
Like i said sun moon stars would be given and course ccb made clear we will do that just praise us as it's all about public image over pairc


School delegate correctly so once got what wanted praise chairman but questions you should ask if lane and co had any power begin with school shambles the ccb post cuthbhertt would never happened
Board members travelling on bus to games
Still lot secrets regards pairc
Under age still crying out for money
Lane has no real power all that changed was there was numerous controversy this year and pairc being built board knew loosing pr battle so like last strikes when do they soften but don't be fooled things won't happen again as once pairc built then then ccb won't be compromised in any situation

Players in committe put forward a name but ccb clearly wouldn't comprise on detail for clearly
Once players stood up and were counted the board we're always going to soften
As for your preaching things changed at top table no they haven't
Lane is good gaa man but doesn't hold main power
Just cause things after mess were cleaned up doesn't show change
Prevention better than cure
All that happened was board twice softened a bit

If real change happened there would be few changes ccb and none absoultey none ccb on committee pick players as even Tony considine said lately Gorman etc great hurling men but have no business on board once ccb there

Mayo recently appointed under twenty one manager with no top board members there but independent pr person
They learned from shambles last year senior process
That's really change imo
With respect you are extremely naive with your football views and you fail to see anything at face value

Cork like before with couninhan over Holland and other strikes won the battles this time but in football terms as Liam griffin Wexford once said ccb usually win the war point is ccb have still huge control
One thing learned was players have character that will stand them on field like post past players in stood up for clearly and good for years ahead


Now don't get carried away and say cork win all ireland in 2017 as you do
There's huge absoultey huge ground over the failure last two years to make up on Dublin and kerry and my fear two years ago was give them a lead it's hard to claw back
Cork should be top four next year and then all ireland final and imo three year plan win all ireland as I only realised from sunday how far Dublin are ahead
I suggest you read gavin awesome interview today where he said he'll change game plan next year as no choice if wants win
He also has plan being put place for league
Cork have huge ground to make up but have the right man

http://www.hoganstand.com/ArticleForm.aspx?ID=244666

Big boost for Midelton with Lehane included in the squad for v the Glen.

If he plays a huge bonus to them.

Gary Neville wrote: »

TTM - Your reply is exactly as I expected.

Tunnel vision.

Anyone expecting radical change and improvement is not being realistic - Frank is there for years to come and wants to control everything - he had full control when we elected chairman like Dolan, O Sullivan & Ryan who went along with everything Frank wanted.

Lane is now seeking to improve things - he's making progress - ex-players on the selection committees is a big step forward - that's Lane's initiative and IMO that was crucial in Cleary getting the job.

I don't expect you to acknowledge progress but it's happening.

Frank was, IMO, the main stumbling block against the building of a proper COE outside Curraheen - the land acquired by the Munster Ag. Society was the perfect site - the idea was put to Frank but he rejected it, in favour of the pathetic effort at PUC.

Kerry are doing a state of the art COE in Farranfore at a cost of €6M and the funding is almost in place - we could easily done something similar but for Frank. Dev Squad and IC Management have a constant issue with access to playing pitches - that will continue and be a limiting factor for us but that's only a minor issue in the overall scheme of the damage done to Cork GAA.

Look tunnel vision don't confuse with realistic views
The slightest think of postive you get carried away exactly like you tried to convince me cork would have challenge Dublin this year if they met
You actually had no idea how far Dublin were ahead as just like this scenario you look at the results as a whole but you fail to look at key indicators in a situation to tell the true story
You failed to realise Dublin best defence all year as proven v kerry would destroyed cork


Here in this scenario you fail to see no change happened
There was a sub committee before with ex players
You do realise counihan appointment Murphy was on player representation

If real change happened why did clearly pull out of the race and then enter it again

Just once question please
Do you think this process was satisfactory in appointment managers over all
Yes the right man thankfully will be got but would you not agree that eight weeks to appoint a manager is a bit long to be fair
Real change will occur when no ccb members are on the committee to pick management
As you do you conviently ignored key points as you always do in debate


Why did mayo under twenty one decide chairman wasn't on panel to choose the management but had independent hr person
Again that's real change
Would you not acknowledge that lane was part of the ccb with statement on managment and indeed lot questions on the pairc remaining
All that happened is problems we're yes fixed and credit due But they happened that should not have and this is no change from the past in after the strikes mistakes happened but then the board comprised
But the board still has control
Show me one real sign of change and I'll agree no problem
But nothing has happened that hasn't imo happened before
If lane was crucial as you say why wasn't clearly given the job straight off
The pressure was mounting from a lot of sides once clearly opted out and it became clear cork could have an unproven manager Again

Ciaran Sheehan is on " thank gaa its Friday " tonight.

Ladies football preview on TG4 at 8:30 tonight

I'm mostly giving out it seems about the powers that be in Cork GAA but this was a breath of serious fresh air, this is an absolutely class setup....

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http://www.gaacork.ie/news/366222/Cork_GAA_Strategic_Planning_2016_2018_Games_Review

As part of the Cork GAA Strategic Planning process (2016-2018) currently underway, a working group on "Games" has been established with a view to formulating proposals aimed at maximising participation in our games and optimising playing standards at all age levels.

The membership of this group is as follows: Conor Counihan (Aghada), John Allen (St. Finbarr’s), Alan Quirke (Valley Rovers), Tom Kenny (Grenagh), Jim Woulfe (Ballyclough), Tracey Kennedy, County Vice-chairman, Kevin O’Donovan, County Coaching Officer.

As part of its research, the working group will host a number of consultation meetings on competition structures, coaching and related issues. A discussion framework for all meetings is included below. All groups listed are advised to consult with their respective members where necessary in advance of meetings.

Wackokid you state your case very well ! Brian Cody always says that when you win your the best manager and when you lose you are the worst ! that's true enough ...Still you have to admit that Fitzmaurice is good ....but believe me from talking to Kerry people this week they would agree with your post 100% !

CORKDOUBLE wrote: »

Wackokid you state your case very well ! Brian Cody always says that when you win your the best manager and when you lose you are the worst ! that's true enough ...Still you have to admit that Fitzmaurice is good ....but believe me from talking to Kerry people this week they would agree with your post 100% !

No doubt he made mistakes but view on the kerry thread it seems they majority wanted him get new term and most ex pundits while some critsed he's team said he's right man for the job
I have not heard many if any ex pundits say he's not the man for next year or indeed name a manager better than him to take over
Jack yes but he's with the under twenty one team
A brilliant point regards cody in he lost all ireland but he evolved
Gavin lost last year but evolved
O Neill and fitzmaurice said they made mistakes but they will learn
Now is that just talk?

Based on both record to be fair they normally learn from mistakes

wackokid wrote: »

TTM, I beg to differ with your opinion that Fitzmaurice is a great manager and I know you like it spelled out.
He is being built up by the media because the media always need a hero and they will always find someone.
Fitzmaurice is a 'LUCKY' manager or at least he WAS one.
Last year he literally stole a All Ireland title with the help of Mayo's two best players colliding and knocking each other out and in the replay one Cormac Reilly from Meath disgraced the refereeing profession if it is a profession.
What happened in the A.Irl final v Donegal was two more huge slices of luck, which I don't need to highlight here.
So uncharacteristic of Donegal, but nothing to do with Fitzmaurice's management skills.
This year in Killarney he was huge dollops of that luck with another horrible boo boo by Padraig Hughes and an outrageous fluke by Fionn Fitzgerald. Nothing to do with management skills.
He really surpassed himself last Sunday in Croke Park.
1....He took the captains armband off K.Donaghy, thereby insulting him and his club for starters. Giving that role to Moran from bitter rivals O Rahilly's was a bitter pill to swallow.
2...His matchup of Fitzgerald marking Andrews was utterly childish and hopeless.
3.. Replacing Moran with his brother in law Galvin with 20 mins left leaves another sour taste with many Kerry people even if they won't say it out loud. If Cubby did something like that he'd be Lynched and vilified on every GAA forum.
4...I am told that he tried to introduce Tommy Walsh with 10 mins left when he had already used his allowed 6 subs and had to be wised up by a County officer. This is hearsay, but I believe it.
5. Gooch was following instructions by chasing Philly McMahon into territory foreign to him and surely detrimental to Kerry's hopes.
6..Putting Aidan O Mahony on McMannamon was another wrong decision and he skinned him several times before Macho man did his usual trick and walked.
7.. He replaced James O Donoghue their top scorer with 3 points, and indeed the games top scorer, with B.J.keane with 10 minutes left and Kerry only 2 points down. Madness, as he wasn't injured or out of gas.
... last but not least, early in the first half his selector Diarmuid Murphy tried to draw his attention to something very obvious but was ignored and degraded by the inattention of both Fitzmaurice and O Neill.
Whatever kudos Fitzmaurice has built up he dumped the lot in Croker last Sunday and I, along with others that I know as keen GAA football men find it hard to believe that he was quickly given another 12 month term.
I could add a few more negatives to the above but sure yerra isn't that enough to be going on with?

All those points bar 1,3,4 I agree with
As regards point one he was right to drop donaghy imo as knew Dublin would targeted him so wanted different dimensions

Point three in relation to comparison with cuthbhertt bares absoultey no relevance when cuthbhertt on field play performance management was correctly question as two years failed to beat any top championship teams and lost twice to fitzmaurice as manager

Cuthbhertt made same mistakes over and over again to be fair like picking half back corner back, half forward like Barry driscoll who superb this year forward for nemo half back and no midfield and half forward line was runners with no creative influence
This was not like fitzmaurice where one game mistakes were made to be fair
This was every game and looking at cork defence concession not opinion but fact as stats show cork conceded loads scores every match so defence was never fixed

Cuthbert's management got critsed as to be fair bar the excellent flangan no one was proven there
In fairness to fitzmaurice he brought in a top coach
As regards the point you say is hearsay with fitzmaurice not knowing he played five subs already I don't belive it
Fitzmaurice the one thing he's great at is attention to detail and teaching back ground i doubt he got the subs mixed up
There's always these type stories going around after an loss
I wouldn't believe that

Your other points are well made
Looking at the kerry thread the stats from the game showed kerry had more posession and most stats were ahead
The key was turn over count and discipline let them down
It certainly wasn't a total Dublin dominating performance but it makes no difference to kerry as a loss is a loss and correctly so moral victory means nothing
My point is Dublin didn't exactly play kerry off the park so fitzmaurice hasn't lost as much as some think credit wise after the loss

I said I'd wait a few days and see would Cusack win be mentioned here.
Pretty much as I thought nothing said about the win. I agree he's not everyone cup of tea but I'm sure if colmans lost there would be no shortage of views saying how he lost a final..
Credit where it's due, he done a magnificent job with he's team.

In relation to Cusack wasn't it outstanding to see colmans minor team grade two winning county for the ist time beating a highly fancied charville and I have nothing against charville and hope they win the intermediate but I am delighted for Cusack.

Well he gave the answer the other night and he's a good coach and spent four days week with this team and put huge commitment in to coaching them.
Is he future cork managment no as like I said any coach he needs to work up the ladder and prove himself but what is clear is he's great coaching potential and thinker of the game and should be involved in under age in cork but that will never happen. Kieran shannon and Eammon Sweeney among others have said he should be involved in cork under age but it won't happen.

Beausang the nine point man from play in the dean Ryan cup two years ago final v ard scoil was outstanding tonight for them.
Well done to all and we'll done to charville who gave a great game and are doing excellent work at under age and dripsey won't be a push over in the intermediate but charville should win as finn is an excellent coach with them.
Dripsey though have a fine full back in Kellher who actually played club hurling in limerick so dripsey won't give in easily as huge pride always in dripsey hurling.
Charville winning no doubt people would have used it to critse Cusack, so for cork hurling over all imo it was good Cusack won as the ccb can't throw the usual rubbish, what has he done for cork.
It's a pity bob Ryan wasn't chairman now, I'm sure he would have loved to present the cup to Cusack.

The style of play Cusack coached was a joy to behold, posession being king, spacial awareness, creativity, cohesive guile with a telepathic sense of all he's team knowing what to do.
The full back was outstanding and the puck outs had a plan a and be.
Even talking to people who are no fans of Cusack, they admitted he's team were well coached.
That's the bottom line, no one has to agree with all of Cusack points or indeed they don't have like him but he's views at times and coaching so far have earned him respect. He has views himself at times I'd totally disagree with but other times he makes valid point but just cause he says them there unfortunately lost in translation.
No doubt he could probably be more subtle in he's views at times however last and this year he's views regards cork hurling they are very hard to disagree with.
Shefflin who to be fair made valid points against him the last few weeks even said while he doesn't agree with him he's huge respect for him as a hurling man.
As a hurling man imo purely and soley judging on hurling imo he has a lot to offer cork hurling in development roles etc with possibly working up the ladder.



It's no surprise Cunningham wanted to bring him to limerick if he got the job.
He's attention to detail with the minor team was absoultey excellent I hear.
It was all about high standards and respect.
He's key was attention to detail and real innovation with a plan a and b.
This doesn't make him an all ireland winning coach but what it does show is he's potential to be involved in an under age team.
They could have easily lost the match and if charville won they would have deserved it but Cusack team never gave up and yes there was an huge reliance on one man to score and charville looked to have more better hurlers in some areas but Cusack got as all as he could from the team as, good coaches normally do, they get every last inch from the team.
This won't be a huge set back for charville as they will take a lot of good young hurlers from that team and the future is definitely bright

Hopefully the intermediate player alan dennehy gets a call up to cork senior hurling next year at full back in he deserves a chance at least in fairness.
Ian Cahill normally a full back for cork development squads and school was full forward for colmans and while I wouldn't thought it was he's best positions he done well.
Cusack has the ability to devise new roles for players but more importantly he was able to read the game in flow in good game management the other night. There's definitely good hurlers in cork at under age.
The standard has improved the past few years but obviously until a minor title or croke park semi final is reached naturally and correctly so questions marks will remain.
If cork under age keep doing what there doing and consistency is kept i do think it's sooner than later a minor break through is got.

It would be great if the new manager was Kieran Kingston and if Donal Og would be a selector ...the man is a legend ...also great news John Cleary will be our new manager thank god ....thanks in no small way to Billy the great Morgan and others in Dublin last weekend ...lets get our football and hurling shows on the road again and get to challenge strongly for titles and trophys we are REBELS ....THE VERY BEST OF LUCK TO THE GREATEST REBELS OF ALL TOMMOROW IN CROKE PARK...

TTM... Cusacks team St. Colemans were no great team. 5 pts from play is very poor from any team in a county final ( I know they won ) . They played a boring brand of hurling with the sweeper system , literally 4 in the full back line. **** hurling whether u like it or not.