Can Lorries Overtake on the Motorway?

bob2oo7 · 23-09-2015 01:54PM #1

My understanding is that they are not allowed? The must stay out of the overtaking lane

Last week, heading North on the M1, just before the Balbriggan Exit, the Renault Clio in front of me, and myself were just about to overtake a lorry.

The Clio was along side it, when the lorry indicated and began to pull out. I braked and sat back while the lorry continued and forced the Clio onto the grass in the middle. The Clio driver kept his composure, didn't break, continued to accelerate and get in front of the lorry. A very impressive response as he could have easily of panicked and lost control.

Heart in mouth stuff... but I see this all the time... I even saw a lorry overtake a Garda car which then made me assume that I what I thought was illegal was not illegal at all.

GerardKeating · 23-09-2015 02:00PM

bob2oo7 wrote: »

My understanding is that they are not allowed? The must stay out of the overtaking lane

Last week, heading North on the M1, just before the Balbriggan Exit, the Renault Clio in front of me, and myself were just about to overtake a lorry.

The Clio was along side it, when the lorry indicated and began to pull out. I braked and sat back while the lorry continued and forced the Clio onto the grass in the middle. The Clio driver kept his composure, didn't break, continued to accelerate and get in front of the lorry. A very impressive response as he could have easily of panicked and lost control.

Heart in mouth stuff... but I see this all the time... I even saw a lorry overtake a Garda car which then made me assume that I what I thought was illegal was not illegal at all.

They are banned from the right most lane, so it depends on how many lanes there are, on a 2 lanes motorway, they cannot overtake, but can if they are three or more lanes.

Aska · 23-09-2015 02:41PM

Yip they are not allowed to be in the right hand lane on a motorway, our problem of course is our motorways have mostly only two lanes making them glorified dual carriageways where as most other countries have 3 lane motorways atleast meaning the heavy vehicles can travel in the left lane and middle lane only.

Weird thing is they are allowed to be in the right hand lane on a dual carraigeway for passing etc... some thought put in to that by the brains in charge.

OP may I ask. How do you feel about "L" driven cars being on the motorways considering they shouldn't be within an ass's roar for one?

Not trying to deflect from your point 'cause that hgv driver was careless and could have caused an accident only for the calm thinking and actions of the car driver at that time.

Monkeysgomad · 23-09-2015 02:44PM

Aska wrote: »

Yip they are not allowed to be in the right hand lane on a motorway, our problem of course is our motorways have mostly only two lanes making them glorified dual carriageways where as most other countries have 3 lane motorways atleast meaning the heavy vehicles can travel in the left lane and middle lane only.

Weird thing is they are allowed to be in the right hand lane on a dual carraigeway for passing etc... some thought put in to that by the brains in charge.

OP may I ask. How do you feel about "L" driven cars being on the motorways considering they shouldn't be within an ass's roar for one?

Not trying to deflect from your point 'cause that hgv driver was careless and could have caused an accident only for the calm thinking and actions of the car driver at that time.

Just because the car has an L sign doesn't mean the driver is a learner.

Explosive_Cornflake · 23-09-2015 02:48PM

Aska wrote: »

Weird thing is they are allowed to be in the right hand lane on a dual carraigeway for passing etc... some thought put in to that by the brains in charge.

The speed limit difference would be the reason for this.
The 2 lane motorways are hardly at capacity, 3 lanes would be wasted.

Monkeysgomad wrote: »

Just because the car has an L sign doesn't mean the driver is a learner.

Technically they are supposed to take the L plate off if the driver is not a learner.

snowgal · 23-09-2015 03:05PM

dont think its as clear cut as they're not allowed overtake. More or less the exact same thing happened to OH as what the OP describes and he is now up for dangerous driving charge for this! He was forced out to the verge as a truck in front decided to overtake another truck on the motorway as OH was about to pass. the driver behind it all thought OH was overtaking 2 trucks on the motorway and reported it.....

Deagol · 23-09-2015 03:19PM

bob2oo7 wrote: »

My understanding is that they are not allowed? The must stay out of the overtaking lane

Last week, heading North on the M1, just before the Balbriggan Exit, the Renault Clio in front of me, and myself were just about to overtake a lorry.

The Clio was along side it, when the lorry indicated and began to pull out. I braked and sat back while the lorry continued and forced the Clio onto the grass in the middle. The Clio driver kept his composure, didn't break, continued to accelerate and get in front of the lorry. A very impressive response as he could have easily of panicked and lost control.

Heart in mouth stuff... but I see this all the time... I even saw a lorry overtake a Garda car which then made me assume that I what I thought was illegal was not illegal at all.

It is not illegal for a HGV to use the overtaking lane of a 2 lane motorway. HGV's are however not allowed to use the outside overtaking lane of a 3 lane motorway.

bob2oo7 · 23-09-2015 03:27PM

I think L drivers should be allowed. They need to get experience. As it stands, they can drive everywhere else, go and pass the test, then suddenly they are now allowed to go on the motorway? Having not driven on one? I think how we are thought to drive in this country is not good enough, Motorway, roundabouts etc.

I see so many people each day doing so many wrong things

On the other thing.. dual carriage ways contain right turns, so that would be the reason why lorries can use the right hand lane on them

On a dual carriage way, is the right lane considered the overtaking lane? In my mind I don't think it is, but I could be wrong?

bob2oo7 · 23-09-2015 03:27PM

Deagol wrote: »

It is not illegal for a HGV to use the overtaking lane of a 2 lane motorway. HGV's are however not allowed to use the outside overtaking lane of a 3 lane motorway.

Ah ok... that explains it so.. and why the Gardaí didn't react when they got overtaken

Second Toughest in_the Freshers · 23-09-2015 03:31PM

bob2oo7 wrote: »

On a dual carriage way, is the right lane considered the overtaking lane? In my mind I don't think it is, but I could be wrong?

usually considered the fast lane

cython · 23-09-2015 03:37PM

Deagol wrote: »

It is not illegal for a HGV to use the overtaking lane of a 2 lane motorway. HGV's are however not allowed to use the outside overtaking lane of a 3 lane motorway.

Since 2012 the below has applied:

3. The Road Traffic (Traffic and Parking) Regulations 1997 ( S.I. No. 182 of 1997 ) are amended by substituting for Regulation 33(1)(d) the following:

“(d) drive a vehicle of a class for which an ordinary speed limit of not more than 90 kilometres per hour is prescribed by regulations under sections 3 and 4 of the Road Traffic Act, 2004 in the traffic lane nearest the right hand edge of a carriageway having more than one traffic lane except where it is necessary to proceed in that lane due to an obstruction or because another lane or lanes is or are for the time being closed to traffic.”

And also since 2012, the below has applied (rewording of an earlier 2008 law to fit in with categories):

“ 4.(a) The ordinary speed limit prescribed for a Category N2 or N3 vehicle and a combination of a Category N2 or N3 vehicle when drawing a Category O3 or O4 trailer and when driven on—

(i) a motorway, is 90 kilometres per hour, or

(ii) any other public road, is 80 kilometres per hour.

(b) the ordinary speed limit of 80 kilometres per hour is prescribed in respect of all public roads for a combination of a mechanically propelled vehicle drawing another vehicle except for any combination of vehicles to which paragraph (a) refers.”

Given that categories N2 and N3 refer to HGVs (>3.5-12 tonnes and > 12 tonnes respectively), the two of these combined actually do suggest that HGVs should not be driven in the right hand lane of either a two- or three-lane carriageway.

Monkeysgomad · 23-09-2015 03:53PM

Explosive_Cornflake wrote: »

The speed limit difference would be the reason for this.
The 2 lane motorways are hardly at capacity, 3 lanes would be wasted.

Technically they are supposed to take the L plate off if the driver is not a learner.

Is that a law ? Plenty of people I see, know and me myself drive the car with L signs always on.

Monkeysgomad · 23-09-2015 04:00PM

Learners should be allowed on the motorways. It's insane the way we are thought how to drive here. On a dual carriage way the speed is 120k in some areas yet we are not allowed on the motorway.

In another country (can't remember which) learners have to do 4 months with an accompanied driver and then do a small test, if they pass they are still a learner but can drive by themselves for another 2 months. This allows them to build up confidence while driving alone. I think this would be very beneficial here.

Grandad99 · 23-09-2015 10:07PM

My understanding is a truck is not allowed use the outside lane on a motorway, regardless of whether it is a two or three lane motorway.

Here’s what the Rules Of The Road say on page 143:

You must not use the lane nearest the central median, that is, the outside lane (lane 2 or lane 3, depending on the number of lanes), if you are driving:

A goods vehicle with a maximum authorised mass of more than 3,500 kilograms, such as a lorry or heavy goods vehicle, or a vehicle towing a trailer, horsebox or caravan.

Carawaystick · 23-09-2015 11:36PM

Aska wrote: »

our motorways have mostly only two lanes making them glorified dual carriageways where as most other countries have 3 lane motorways atleast meaning the heavy vehicles can travel in the left lane and middle lane only.

This is completely untrue, most countries in Europe have 2 lane motorways as default and only have wider roads where traffic merits it
This is , from personal driving experience
Belgium, France, Germany, Italy, Luxemburg, Spain, uk

McAlban · 24-09-2015 09:19AM

My Understanding is that HGV's may not overtake or drive in the most right hand lane.

Driving down the M1 every day. This is a pain in the A$$ as it is widely ignored. 2 HGV's travelling at (and often limited to) 80kph, one trying to overtake the other = a 3km tailback of cars travelling at 80kph.

km991148 · 24-09-2015 10:39AM

Whatever about the HGVs - but learners on the motorway - thats insane! The standard of m-way driving in Ireland is already p!ss-poor - coupled with a generally haphazard attitude to learning to drive (A minimum of only 12 lessons and most people thinking its ok to drive solo on a provisional once they get the basics right) means the standard of driving is unlikely to improve any time soon.

BeardySi · 24-09-2015 07:12PM

..of course actually teaching learners to drive on motorways might do something to raise the general standard. At least in the UK most dual carriageways have a 70mph limit so learners can get some time in on motorway-like roads...

OttoPilot · 24-09-2015 07:28PM

km991148 wrote: »

Whatever about the HGVs - but learners on the motorway - thats insane! The standard of m-way driving in Ireland is already p!ss-poor - coupled with a generally haphazard attitude to learning to drive (A minimum of only 12 lessons and most people thinking its ok to drive solo on a provisional once they get the basics right) means the standard of driving is unlikely to improve any time soon.

Maybe the standard of driving on motorways is poor because nobody is ever taught to drive on them?! That's what I think is insane.

It's like banning learners from parallel parking, only testing them on basic parking and then blaming them after the test when they crash parallel parking!

ezra_pound · 24-09-2015 07:33PM

Explosive_Cornflake wrote: »

The speed limit difference would be the reason for this.
The 2 lane motorways are hardly at capacity, 3 lanes would be wasted.

Technically they are supposed to take the L plate off if the driver is not a learner.

Where did you source this from? Citation please. (Referring to L plates)

... Because it's incorrect!

Terrontress · 24-09-2015 07:35PM

I have no issue with learner drivers using the motorway. What I have an issue with is learner drivers using their cars as their mode of transport instead of as a vehicle to learn to drive.

If a learner driver has his car properly marked as such and is under the instruction of a competent instructor then I'd welcome a change of rules to allow them.

A learner out on his own on a motorway, or any other road for that matter, is a hazard.

Terrontress · 24-09-2015 07:37PM

McAlban wrote: »

My Understanding is that HGV's may not overtake or drive in the most right hand lane.

Driving down the M1 every day. This is a pain in the A$$ as it is widely ignored. 2 HGV's travelling at (and often limited to) 80kph, one trying to overtake the other = a 3km tailback of cars travelling at 80kph.

You get two truckers at 90 km/h, the one behind thinks he can do 91, or that his colleague is only doing 89. Cue an extremely slow rolling roadblock on a 120km/h limited motorway.

savagethegoat · 24-09-2015 08:34PM

Treadhead wrote: »

..of course actually teaching learners to drive on motorways might do something to raise the general standard. At least in the UK most dual carriageways have a 70mph limit so learners can get some time in on motorway-like roads...

dual carriageways here in certain enlightened counties have a speed limit of 120km/h

No L drivers in the UK are taught on the motorway and they seem to manage OK.Probably because they are keener on enforcing the Law than we are

km991148 · 24-09-2015 10:18PM

OttoPilot wrote: »

Maybe the standard of driving on motorways is poor because nobody is ever taught to drive on them?! That's what I think is insane.

It's like banning learners from parallel parking, only testing them on basic parking and then blaming them after the test when they crash parallel parking!

Maybe.. but they can be taught in ways that dont involve driving on the motorway - dual carriage way experience, more than 12 hours lesson experience etc - like teaching people about driving, lane dicipline etc takes more than having someone sign off on 12 hours driving coupled with many hours unaccompanied driving (which seems the norm in this country) - uk motorways dont have such a bad standard and they dont have L-plates on motorways..

Also - as others mentioned the UK - they have other schemes like pass plus which offers cheap insurance for post test leaning (covering night driving, motorways etc)

As for parallel parking.. why the feck that isnt taught/tested I have no idea.. it brilliant and should be encouraged!

BeardySi · 24-09-2015 11:30PM

savagethegoat wrote: »

dual carriageways here in certain enlightened counties have a speed limit of 120km/hour

Interesting, was always under the impression that the only stretch of 120kph dual carriageway was the n1 between the end of the m1 and the border... No harm.

Nichard Dixon · 24-09-2015 11:35PM

Treadhead wrote: »

Interesting, was always under the impression that the only stretch of 120kph dual carriageway was the n1 between the end of the m1 and the border... No harm.

This stretch of road is designed as a motorway and is only not designated for quasi political reasons, and similar roads may exist everywhere. In the UK you can have crap duallers with an unwarranted 70mph limit. Parts of the NI A1 being a good example, some of these sections are lethal when compared to the Newry bypass, which like the N1 is really built as a motorway.

Markcheese · 24-09-2015 11:36PM

Sure , of course trucks should be allowed overtake on motorways - how else are they going to get past the tractor (with a load of straw) who's only in the left hand lane because there's a lad on a moped hogging the hard shoulder -

Markcheese · 24-09-2015 11:39PM

Monkeysgomad wrote: »

Learners should be allowed on the motorways. It's insane the way we are thought how to drive here. On a dual carriage way the speed is 120k in some areas yet we are not allowed on the motorway.

In another country (can't remember which) learners have to do 4 months with an accompanied driver and then do a small test, if they pass they are still a learner but can drive by themselves for another 2 months. This allows them to build up confidence while driving alone. I think this would be very beneficial here.

Kind of similar to Ireland so - a few lessons followed by a little test -if you pass you're an N driver - which allows you to build up confidence while driving alone- of course if you can't pass the "little test" you should not be driving alone -

OttoPilot · 25-09-2015 01:24AM

km991148 wrote: »

Maybe.. but they can be taught in ways that dont involve driving on the motorway - dual carriage way experience, more than 12 hours lesson experience etc - like teaching people about driving, lane dicipline etc takes more than having someone sign off on 12 hours driving coupled with many hours unaccompanied driving (which seems the norm in this country) - uk motorways dont have such a bad standard and they dont have L-plates on motorways..

Also - as others mentioned the UK - they have other schemes like pass plus which offers cheap insurance for post test leaning (covering night driving, motorways etc)

As for parallel parking.. why the feck that isnt taught/tested I have no idea.. it brilliant and should be encouraged!

Dual carriageways aren't as good as learning on a motorway. Stopping distances are way shorter at 80kph than 120kph, yet I see people using the same/similar distance between cars at both speeds. You need an instructor in the car with you at 120 to say that's too close, otherwise you're unlikely to realise until it's too late.

Crumbs868 · 25-09-2015 03:05AM

Why are so many posters continuing to post that trucks are not allowed in the overtaking lane when poster cython has gone to the bother of posting an extract from the legislation which clearly states that ITS NOT ILLEGAL FOR TRUCKS TO USE THE OVERTAKING LANES. Obstruction is not defined by law and has not been challenged so a truck doing 80ks(many do) is an obstruction to a truck doing 85ks

Seriously some posters see a thread title and click reply without reading any replies all in the aim of adding to their post count

Nichard Dixon · 25-09-2015 03:22AM

Crumbs868 wrote: »

Why are so many posters continuing to post that trucks are not allowed in the overtaking lane when poster cython has gone to the bother of posting an extract from the legislation which clearly states that ITS NOT ILLEGAL FOR TRUCKS TO USE THE OVERTAKING LANES. Obstruction is not defined by law and has not been challenged so a truck doing 80ks(many do) is an obstruction to a truck doing 85ks

Seriously some posters see a thread title and click reply without reading any replies all in the aim of adding to their post count

Normal traffic is not an obstruction. What was the point of the SI at all if not to remove trucks from the right hand lane? Are you saying that it is like the drink driving in that they made a bags of it?

Can Lorries Overtake on the Motorway?

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