US Parole board denies battered woman's clemency plea

MilesMorales1 · 24-09-2015 04:22PM #1

OKLAHOMA CITY — Tondalo Hall, a battered woman whose lengthy prison term in a child abuse case has outraged women’s rights advocates, had her plea for clemency denied on Wednesday.

The Oklahoma Pardon and Parole Board voted down her application for a commuted sentence, meaning Hall will remain in prison until at least 2030, when she becomes eligible for parole.

Hall is serving a 30-year sentence for failing to protect her children from her abusive boyfriend, Robert Braxton. Braxton received only a two-year sentence after he admitted to breaking the ribs and femur of their 3-month-old daughter. He has been free since 2006, while Hall, who was not accused of abusing her children, remains behind bars.
A BuzzFeed News investigation found that Hall was one of at least 28 mothers in 11 states who had been sentenced to 10 or more years in prison for failing to protect their children from abusers — despite evidence the mothers themselves had been abused.

Hall has alleged both in and out of court that she, too, had been violently abused by Braxton — Hall says that he had choked and punched her.

http://www.buzzfeed.com/alexcampbell/parole-board-denies-battered-womans-clemency-plea?bftwnews&utm_term=4ldqpgc#.jvBKolgK

American legal system is crazy as ****. Apparently only the state governor can pardon her, which is mad, considering the abuser is already out of prison. It makes my blood boil reading **** like that.

Timberrrrrrrr · 24-09-2015 04:23PM

MilesMorales1 wrote: »

http://www.buzzfeed.com/alexcampbell/parole-board-denies-battered-womans-clemency-plea?bftwnews&utm_term=4ldqpgc#.jvBKolgK

American legal system is crazy as ****. Apparently only the state governor can pardon her, which is mad, considering the abuser is already out of prison. It makes my blood boil reading **** like that.

Nothing that happens over there surprises me anymore.

steddyeddy · 24-09-2015 04:25PM

Actually they should both be in prison. He should serve a slightly longer sentence though.

MilesMorales1 · 24-09-2015 04:27PM

steddyeddy wrote: »

Actually they should both be in prison. He should serve a slightly longer sentence though.

Is it that simple if she was abused by him as well? Seems the american policy of just throwing people into jail doesn't really work in practise.

Samaris · 24-09-2015 04:29PM

Wait, he's out already? And she's still in there?

I...*splutter*.

24-09-2015 04:31PM

So the abuser gets less time than one of his abused? Bizarre. Which is not to say that failing to protect her baby from a monster isn't a terrible thing, or that she doesn't deserve prison.

But the perpetrator gets two years and one of his victims doesn't even qualify to apply for parole for another 15 years. in spite of never harming the child herself? Sounds like someone has too much sympathy for male abusers, and not enough for victims.

Penny Tration · 24-09-2015 04:33PM

I really don't see the problem with jailing someone for allowing their children to be abused.

He should have a much longer sentence, and that's the problem here. He did the worst part, he should be jailed for a hell of a lot longer than her.

I feel awful for her because she was also abused and it fcuks you up mentally. But she had a duty to protect her children and she failed them monumentally.

I'm sorry she was abused, but she's an adult and had the ability to seek help in whatever way she could. The child could do nothing to protect itself.

steddyeddy · 24-09-2015 04:33PM

MilesMorales1 wrote: »

Is it that simple if she was abused by him as well? Seems the american policy of just throwing people into jail doesn't really work in practise.

I come from a similar family. I escaped at sixteen. I have zero time for anyone who keeps their kids in a situation like that. If I could do it as a kid a grown up (man or woman) with kids has to do it.

steddyeddy · 24-09-2015 04:34PM

steddyeddy wrote: »

Actually they should both be in prison. He should serve a slightly longer sentence though.

Actually I should say he should serve a longer sentence.

24-09-2015 04:35PM

steddyeddy wrote: »

I come from a similar family. I escaped at sixteen. I have zero time for anyone who keeps their kids in a situation like that. If I could do it as a kid a grown up (man or woman) with kids has to do it.

People are all different Eddy. What you might have found within yourself to escape abuse might be missing in someone else, no matter how harshly we judge people for it. We are who we are, there's no escaping that.

steddyeddy · 24-09-2015 04:38PM

Candie wrote: »

People are all different Eddy. What you might have found within yourself to escape abuse might be missing in someone else, no matter how harshly we judge people for it. We are who we are, there's no escaping that.

Indeed but does that variable in personality excuse action or inaction? Some abuse victims go on to be abusers themselves. I would throw myself off a cliff before hurting a kid. Another person may go on to abuse to deal with their demons (I think abuse is about control IMHO). Does the fact that they have a different personality from me excuse that?

steddyeddy · 24-09-2015 04:40PM

Not to say I don't have the upmost sympathy for this woman. Abuse warps the mind and he most likely controlled her through fear.

24-09-2015 04:42PM

steddyeddy wrote: »

Indeed but does that variable in personality excuse action or inaction? Some abuse victims go on to be abusers themselves. I would throw myself off a cliff before hurting a kid. Another person may go on to abuse to deal with their demons (I think abuse is about control IMHO). Does the fact that they have a different personality from me excuse that?

I'm not trying to excuse anything, as I clearly said in my first post. Just offer what might be an explanation.

There are no excuses for allowing abuse to happen - that neglect being another form of abuse.

steddyeddy · 24-09-2015 04:44PM

Candie wrote: »

I'm not trying to excuse anything, as I clearly said in my first post. Just offer what might be an explanation.

There are no excuses for allowing abuse to happen - that neglect being another form of abuse.

Oh sorry Candie. You're right. My mother was a very docile woman. It seems likely that abusers go for women like this. If I ever get rich I'd put money into helping domestic abuse victims get out. Abuse is very common in Ireland IMHO.

Overheal · 24-09-2015 05:46PM

Stupid application of the law:

Braxton was charged with child abuse and Hall was charged with failing to protect her children from him.

Hall pled guilty, but Braxton did not, and went to trial. Hall testified at his trial, but frustrated prosecutors because she did not provide many details on witness stand about how he had abused her children. Fearful that without her testimony, they would lose the case prosecutors cut a deal with Braxton in which he pled guilty but was released from jail.

When it came time for Hall to be sentenced, the judge who presided over both trials faulted her for being “less than candid” about his alleged crimes, although also noted that she seemed to be afraid of him. Still, he sentenced her to 30 years.

Her boyfriend didn't protect the kids either, clearly.

Timberrrrrrrr wrote: »

Nothing that happens over there surprises me anymore.

Dude, examine your own legal system before bashing Oklahoma's. How long did Halvey go to Mountjoy for, for running over that kid dead during a DUI?

asherbassad · 24-09-2015 06:42PM

Penny Tration wrote: »

I really don't see the problem with jailing someone for allowing their children to be abused.

He should have a much longer sentence, and that's the problem here. He did the worst part, he should be jailed for a hell of a lot longer than her.

I feel awful for her because she was also abused and it fcuks you up mentally. But she had a duty to protect her children and she failed them monumentally.

I'm sorry she was abused, but she's an adult and had the ability to seek help in whatever way she could. The child could do nothing to protect itself.

It's one thing ALLOWING it to happen. It's quite a different thing not being ABLE to prevent it from happening.

Little CuChulainn · 24-09-2015 06:48PM

asherbassad wrote: »

It's one thing ALLOWING it to happen. It's quite a different thing not being ABLE to prevent it from happening.

If it's a matter of being physically unable to do anything then that's one thing. But a call to police or child protective services outlining the abuse would generally be sufficient to get the ball rolling.

asherbassad · 24-09-2015 07:04PM

Little CuChulainn wrote: »

If it's a matter of being physically unable to do anything then that's one thing. But a call to police or child protective services outlining the abuse would generally be sufficient to get the ball rolling.

Always seeking to imprison someone, anyone. Never once stopping to think about the terror and misery under which she might have lived. Sure...bang her up and that will put your mind at rest that the evildoer has, as usual, been apprehended and punished.

There's another thread on here about US soldiers being ORDERED to not intervene in the cases of child rape. These aren't battered wives. These are grown MEN. Men with guns. Men who are trained to kill other humans. This woman, this battered woman failed to protect her child and for that you want her hung or never to see the outside of a prison cell for the next 15 years. As if her incalculable suffering couldn't be exacerbated any further. She will never get to see that child grown up. When she gets out....that child will be grown and most likely with deep emotional and mental problems having been shunted from one foster home to another. That person will most likely be depressed and turn to alcohol, drugs and/or crime and when the turn comes for that kid to stand in court the hard-ass gang on here who know just about everything and have the answer to all society's ills will shout "Aww, boo-hoo! The kid had a tough upbringing. Jail the scumbag."

Yep, I've heard it all before.

Incidentally what punishment would you mete out to those who issue orders to NOT defend kids from rape when you would have this woman imprisoned for this long merely for the crime of not being ABLE to prevent abuse and violence?

Penny Tration · 24-09-2015 07:08PM

Where are you getting the part where she wasn't able? There's zero evidence of her being unable, only unwilling.

steddyeddy · 24-09-2015 07:09PM

We need a balance between understanding that the silent partner is being abused and making it clear that children need to be removed from the situation ASAP.

GLaDOS · 24-09-2015 07:13PM

I'd worry that fear of arrest may further hold back victims of domestic abuse from coming forward and getting help.

steddyeddy · 24-09-2015 07:13PM

asherbassad wrote: »

It's one thing ALLOWING it to happen. It's quite a different thing not being ABLE to prevent it from happening.

Do you know who are most definitely not able to prevent it happen? The kids.

steddyeddy · 24-09-2015 07:15PM

asherbassad wrote: »

Always seeking to imprison someone, anyone. Never once stopping to think about the terror and misery under which she might have lived. Sure...bang her up and that will put your mind at rest that the evildoer has, as usual, been apprehended and punished.

There's another thread on here about US soldiers being ORDERED to not intervene in the cases of child rape. These aren't battered wives. These are grown MEN. Men with guns. Men who are trained to kill other humans. This woman, this battered woman failed to protect her child and for that you want her hung or never to see the outside of a prison cell for the next 15 years. As if her incalculable suffering couldn't be exacerbated any further. She will never get to see that child grown up. When she gets out....that child will be grown and most likely with deep emotional and mental problems having been shunted from one foster home to another. That person will most likely be depressed and turn to alcohol, drugs and/or crime and when the turn comes for that kid to stand in court the hard-ass gang on here who know just about everything and have the answer to all society's ills will shout "Aww, boo-hoo! The kid had a tough upbringing. Jail the scumbag."

Yep, I've heard it all before.

Incidentally what punishment would you mete out to those who issue orders to NOT defend kids from rape when you would have this woman imprisoned for this long merely for the crime of not being ABLE to prevent abuse and violence?

It's a bit dicky to suggest the poster's primary motive is to imprison someone rather than rescue the kids.

asherbassad · 24-09-2015 07:19PM

Penny Tration wrote: »

I really don't see the problem with jailing someone for allowing their children to be abused.

He should have a much longer sentence, and that's the problem here. He did the worst part, he should be jailed for a hell of a lot longer than her.

I feel awful for her because she was also abused and it fcuks you up mentally. But she had a duty to protect her children and she failed them monumentally.

I'm sorry she was abused, but she's an adult and had the ability to seek help in whatever way she could. The child could do nothing to protect itself.

So what would your punishment be then for an 18 year old young man who is walking home at night with his 11 year old brother and they are set upon by 2 larger thugs. The thugs quickly break the 18 year old's nose and teeth and then one holds him down as he's bleeding, vomiting and in shock while the other thug punches up the 11 year old, kicks him around a bit and all for a bit of drunken fun?

What sentence would you hand down to the older brother....after he gets out of hospital?

After all he failed to protect a child, albeit a sibling rather than an offspring.

hatrickpatrick · 24-09-2015 07:22PM

MilesMorales1 wrote: »

Is it that simple if she was abused by him as well? Seems the american policy of just throwing people into jail doesn't really work in practise.

Unless she can prove that and get a conviction, it shouldn't be allowed to be used as a mitigating factor. Any alleged crimes by somebody else shouldn't be allowed to be used as a mitigating factor in somebody's defense unless they can be proven in court, as far as I'm concerned.

Still disagree with the poster you quoted though. His sentence should be a lot longer - and not because hers should be relatively lenient either. As far as I'm concerned, people who violently assault children, and those who facilitate them, are among the only cases in which genuine life sentences (as in, rot in jail) should be considered.

steddyeddy · 24-09-2015 07:22PM

asherbassad wrote: »

So what would your punishment be then for an 18 year old young man who is walking home at night with his 11 year old brother and they are set upon by 2 larger thugs. The thugs quickly break the 18 year old's nose and teeth and then one holds him down as he's bleeding, vomiting and in shock while the other thug punches up the 11 year old, kicks him around a bit and all for a bit of drunken fun?

What sentence would you hand down to the older brother....after he gets out of hospital?

After all he failed to protect a child, albeit a sibling rather than an offspring.

You're talking about once off assault VS systemic sexual, physical or psychological abuse of an infant.

Abuse occurs in cycles. Stopping abuse doesn't necessarily involve beating up the abuser. It involves notifying police after sexual, physical assault has taken place in order to prevent it occurring again.

Penny Tration · 24-09-2015 07:25PM

asherbassad wrote: »

So what would your punishment be then for an 18 year old young man who is walking home at night with his 11 year old brother and they are set upon by 2 larger thugs. The thugs quickly break the 18 year old's nose and teeth and then one holds him down as he's bleeding, vomiting and in shock while the other thug punches up the 11 year old, kicks him around a bit and all for a bit of drunken fun?

What sentence would you hand down to the older brother....after he gets out of hospital?

After all he failed to protect a child, albeit a sibling rather than an offspring.

None, because he was incapable of protecting the child.

There's no evidence the woman was unABLE.

Stop making up ridiculous, incomparable scenarios.

If the mother were held down and beaten by a friend of her boyfriend, while the boyfriend beat the child, it'd be comparable. But that's not what happened.

Little CuChulainn · 24-09-2015 07:32PM

asherbassad wrote: »

Always seeking to imprison someone, anyone. Never once stopping to think about the terror and misery under which she might have lived. Sure...bang her up and that will put your mind at rest that the evildoer has, as usual, been apprehended and punished.

There's another thread on here about US soldiers being ORDERED to not intervene in the cases of child rape. These aren't battered wives. These are grown MEN. Men with guns. Men who are trained to kill other humans. This woman, this battered woman failed to protect her child and for that you want her hung or never to see the outside of a prison cell for the next 15 years. As if her incalculable suffering couldn't be exacerbated any further. She will never get to see that child grown up. When she gets out....that child will be grown and most likely with deep emotional and mental problems having been shunted from one foster home to another. That person will most likely be depressed and turn to alcohol, drugs and/or crime and when the turn comes for that kid to stand in court the hard-ass gang on here who know just about everything and have the answer to all society's ills will shout "Aww, boo-hoo! The kid had a tough upbringing. Jail the scumbag."

Yep, I've heard it all before.

Incidentally what punishment would you mete out to those who issue orders to NOT defend kids from rape when you would have this woman imprisoned for this long merely for the crime of not being ABLE to prevent abuse and violence?

You've attributed an awful lot to me that I didn't say.

asherbassad · 24-09-2015 07:32PM

steddyeddy wrote: »

Do you know who are most definitely not able to prevent it happen? The kids.

That's pretty much stating the obvious. So what sentence would you hand down to the many battered wives in Ireland whose abusive partner/spouse managed to punch up her children before, during or after he punched her senseless?

There are battered women cowering in fear with their kids in "hotels" around this and every other country having finally grown the balls to escape from abuse and do what people like you insist is the duty of the mother in this case. And for their sins of fleeing and being put up in a shelter they are then vilified and being lambasted as living in hotels and how it must be so much more luxurious that being homeless. That's another fucking thread on here.

No woman should ever be in prison.. EVER!

Little CuChulainn · 24-09-2015 07:33PM

asherbassad wrote: »

That's pretty much stating the obvious. So what sentence would you hand down to the many battered wives in Ireland whose abusive partner/spouse managed to punch up her children before, during or after he punched her senseless?

There are battered women cowering in fear with their kids in "hotels" around this and every other country having finally grown the balls to escape from abuse and do what people like you insist is the duty of the mother in this case. And for their sins of fleeing and being put up in a shelter they are then vilified and being lambasted as living in hotels and how it must be so much more luxurious that being homeless. That's another fucking thread on here.

No woman should ever be in prison.. EVER!

No woman at all?

Penny Tration · 24-09-2015 07:36PM

asherbassad wrote: »

That's pretty much stating the obvious. So what sentence would you hand down to the many battered wives in Ireland whose abusive partner/spouse managed to punch up her children before, during or after he punched her senseless?

There are battered women cowering in fear with their kids in "hotels" around this and every other country having finally grown the balls to escape from abuse and do what people like you insist is the duty of the mother in this case. And for their sins of fleeing and being put up in a shelter they are then vilified and being lambasted as living in hotels and how it must be so much more luxurious that being homeless. That's another fucking thread on here.

No woman should ever be in prison.. EVER!

You really need to read threads properly instead of making crazy assumptions.

Nobody in that other thread said that battered wives are living the life of Riley in a hotel room. Jesus, exaggerate much?

US Parole board denies battered woman's clemency plea

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