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DCM 2015: Mentored Novices Thread
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Singer, singer...what have we said????
NO WEAVING....NO!!!!
haha gotcha
Re your mini-bonk: how was nutrition yesterday and pre-lsr generally? How has sleep been (no need to answer that, I think I know
) and how is health generally lately?
You could just chalk this one up but no harm examining the bigger picture too, you've been training hard lately and asking a lot of your body.
Bear in mind also that an initial too-fast pace can come back to bite you disproportionately. Always ease into a run, especially the longer it gets. It's like you use up too much fuel revving up too quick.
Mrs Mc....17 miles, you totally rock! Ah but you all do, you know that! Have we all really been together 11 weeks?! That's a long-term relationship in running-programme terms!!
Up at 6? That is dedication....Tom Joad, you got competition
You'll be eating Mrs Mc's shorts soon...sorry Mr Mc but has to be said....:pac:
Really promising run @PMP too, well done and loving the multi-tasking sofa work
kennyg, another great PMP run...with ahem man flu :rolleyes: So when are you getting the upgrade to pneuman-moania?!
I'd be a bit wary about getting up on your toes too much tho. If that's not your normal stride - and even if it is - it can put enormous pressure on your achilles :eek:
If it ain't broke....
And is 15 mins a bit long for icing? Myles Splitz or Clearlier, what's the latest on this please?
All in all tho, well done
Jake1970, 48 miles, your 10k training base is really standing to you here, nice good 5k session, what were the recoveries just as a matter of interest? Nice mlr too and the MP run...woah, deadly execution, am in awe
Re your HM aim on which group to go with...Not sure if it's appropriate for a HM in a marathon block but fwiw had a chat with coachy today and he suggested (ie he was telling me for next time) to go out hard and take the risk of blowing up. 'What's the worst?' He said, 'you jog in?' So no, not the best advice for your HM plan
For a HM, you need to be still in control at 9 miles. If you get to nine miles in one piece, you're good to go for the rest of the way. Pick a pace you know you can do comfortably hard for 9 but can still continue for another 4.1....0 -
Kudos on all the pb's and lsr's this weekend ur all shamazing Had my first physio appt on Friday got the legs rubbed out and all is good. I have been having soreness in my shoulder and neck when running this felt heaps better today. Did my lsr of 16 today. I got on grand the last two miles felt the longest as I had to run on past the house cause I fecked up the mileage. I love my little picnic of isogel and jellybabies on route must bring a flask of tea and a scone next time Just checked the plan for the last few weeks and it looks like we have the hardest part ...over a piece of cake from here on in.
Splits as follows
1. 10.26
2. 10.47
3. 10.57
4. 10.52
5. 10.55
6. 10.58
7. 11.09
8. 11.10
9. 11.10
10. 11.05
11.11.08
1 2. 11.1 3
13. 11.13
14. 10.55
15. 10.52
16.10.460 -
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The recoveries for the 5k session were approx. 3.5 mins . the plan says recovery should be between 50-90% of the rep, so around full recovery time, I think(not good at maths).Jake1970, 48 miles, your 10k training base is really standing to you here, nice good 5k session, what were the recoveries just as a matter of interest? Nice mlr too and the MP run...woah, deadly execution, am in awe
Re your HM aim on which group to go with...Not sure if it's appropriate for a HM in a marathon block but fwiw had a chat with coachy today and he suggested (ie he was telling me for next time) to go out hard and take the risk of blowing up. 'What's the worst?' He said, 'you jog in?' So no, not the best advice for your HM plan
For a HM, you need to be still in control at 9 miles. If you get to nine miles in one piece, you're good to go for the rest of the way. Pick a pace you know you can do comfortably hard for 9 but can still continue for another 4.1....
Thanks for your input re. the half marathon, I will definitely be aiming for a PB so maybe just go out hard with the pacers and hang on for dear life:).0 -
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PeterD61, well done on your milestone 16 miles It really is a buzz isn't it?! Firsts all round for you today, no walking, gels and flipbelt. Sounds like you're in a familiar neck of the woods...I know that hill very well! Deceptive little fecker! I normally chop my stride and grit my teeth on it
Fwiw, I think you should be aiming to keep all your paces slower than 10m/mi, no need to go under, otherwise great work today.
Thank you. I do try to keep it over 10 m/m but find it a struggle to get the pace right.:-(0 -
Thanks for the kind wordsCheers Dubgal thanks for the advice, its easy to be one typing to the many on a keyboard, but you are one replying to the many and if it was paper you'd have just filled an A4 page on mine alone, so again, thanks for the time you spend doing this mullarkey...
How often do I run on empty? Rarely, almost never, am a creature of habit when it comes to breakfast but if you mean 'without taking something mid-run' well then I've never taken anything ... yet (but remember 'never' in my case only goes back to the start of my running in Jan '14). So re yesterday, I dont think the tiredness I felt at the end was down to lack of carbs, just lack of muscle memory of doing record distances like 18 miles. Over the next fortnight I will definitely get a grip on whether I need a plan re gels - yes or no.
On the fifth session, still working nights for the next few weeks, but running doesnt stop when you're on nights, I did 10 miles around Sandyford Industrial Estate 2 weeks ago from just before midnight to near 1.30am. Its not where I live, but what a safe place to do a night run I reckon having done it (when you really have to run and its gone mad late). I'll try and get a fifth one in but it'll be max 5k if it happens.
Havent a plan to do a half, I think I'll skip them to be honest. Respect for all the others who do them on the way to the full, but I reckon mentally it'd wreck my head to suffer 13 and give it all to the line, and then think 'crap, the full thing is double that' .....
Yes, have a read back about gels. I'll cobble together all the gel and fuelling related posts this week. Now is the time to decide, October will be too late
5k for your fifth run will be absolutely fine, or forget the distance and go by time; 35-45 mins very very easy. It will contribute towards your general aerobic fitness. Don't force it tho, especially with shift work. Fair play to you, can't question your dedication!
And yes, doing a half is not obligatory so carry onPeterD61, well done on your milestone 16 miles It really is a buzz isn't it?! Firsts all round for you today, no walking, gels and flipbelt. Sounds like you're in a familiar neck of the woods...I know that hill very well! Deceptive little fecker! I normally chop my stride and grit my teeth on it
Fwiw, I think you should be aiming to keep all your paces slower than 10m/mi, no need to go under, otherwise great work today.
Thank you. I do try to keep it over 10 m/m but find it a struggle to get the pace right.:-(
I know, who'd have thought running slow could be hard. Like all thing though, practice and it will get easier. Make sure you focus on keeping good form too, easy to slump when going slower.0 -
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Hi Neady, that was an emotional run for sure! You have taken lots from it and I agree, I have learned more from my running mistakes than my successes
I'm the same re footpath hopping, bloody hard work isn't it, especially towards the end of a lsr :eek: Sometimes staying on the roads wins....even so far a s playing 'chicken' with oncoming cars. Disclaimer: I do NOT recommend this
Next time, definitely plan your post-run nutrition: have something easy and palatable ready to eat and drink within 20 mins, either electrolyte drink, chocolate milk, protein/carbohydrate mix (nuts and dried fruit, nutty flapjack, protein bar etc).
Also eat something more substantial within 90 minutes: again, protein heavy ex scrambled eggs on a bagel. Your tummy might still deel queasy but will thank you for it. Protein is great for post-stress muscle repair.
Emsy 1, glad the niggles are working out. Don't forget to relax your jaw, neck and shoulders too when running.
That was a good run, well done...loving the picnic approach! Yes, the bulk of the work is done but this month is still pretty crucial in terms of putting all the icing on the cake so doubly important to keep the by now well-established routines re rest, recovery, sleep and nutrition going....as well as the running!
Just a comment on your splits: always aim to keep the first mile the slowest (not fastest....) split overall. This is where you should be easing into the run with baby steps and very gradually warming up your body
Hi coolhandspan, well done on the 18, but absolutely no need to consciously increase the pace towards the end of your lsrs. The risk/reward benefit for novices is weighted too heavily on the increased recovery time and injury risk side here.
Hi duffer, glad you got it done. I would agree, no harm seeing a physio at this stage and mentioning your fallen arches. You might need a shoe with arch support such as an asics GT 2000. Are you near an Amhibian King shop, they'll be able to help with choosing the right shoe for you....
Hi conor mc and well done for making it out Never an easy call: get the lsr done early and feel wrecked all day or do it later in the day and be wired for hours...and wrecked and possibly queasy! Well done too on getting through the dip. This will happen on the day too, more than once, so experiencing these types of dips during a lsr help you realise they are temporary. PS, keep the pace nearer 10m/mi pace, no harm even slower. 0 -
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20m LSR done!
Intention was to go out Sunday morning, had everything lined up nicely for it, but I think it was Eisenhower who said something about the best-laid LSR plans never surviving first contact with real-life, or words to that effect!
So yesterday became a bit of a guessing game as to whether I'd get out at all or have to push the LSR to Monday evening. In the end, I left the house around 7:15pm for a three laps of Griffith Ave > Howth Road > Collins Ave > Ballymun Rd. Nothing too eventful about it until mile 17 when my legs started to blow up. Had brought a gel along but didn't take it earlier in the run, and at 17m figured there wasn't much point in doing it then.
Anyway, kept going to mile 19, where a couple of hills actually provided a bit of quad relief.
Felt pretty crap after the run. Obviously post-run nutrition at 10:30pm can be tricky, so a hastily-scoffed banana and a random protein drink nearly made me throw up. Will need to work on this methinks!
Splits:
10:21
9:56
9:41
9:54
9:50
9:48
9:51
9:56
9:48
9:39
9:39
9:26
9:35
9:37
10:08 < paused to grab a bottle of water in shop, slow to get legs warmed up again!
9:36
9:53
10:03 < ouchy
10:15 < ouchy ouchy
10:15 < double uphill, so acceptable! 0 -
Thanks guys for taking the time to write these great reports, we can all learn something from each other's reports, every time
FeenaM, you've been too quiet Good to hear from you, thanks for popping in. Loving the self awareness and yup, non-race racing sucks onwards this week but....don't worry too much about the faster-paced mileage. Long and slow will have more benefit at this stage unless you have been given a specific purpose this week?
Skittle8710, would love to hear more Any chance??! Well done on the sub 2 hour, especially after illness! How is recovery going and be kind to your body, it's been through a lot. Easy easy running this week.....
kerry gooner, PB, well done! Any more detail....please?!
Diego, again well done! Deadly race report, you never fail to deliver on these
Great pace band too and the ocd....you're a real runner now!!!
Good call on fixing the shoe, hillsiderunner will second that (where have you been hilly, too quiet ).
Feeling strong on mile 10 was a really good sign, shows you paced it well. If you get to mile 9 in a HM, you'll make it home whichever way. Feeling strong was the icing on the cake 0 -
TFGR, well done today! Just a thought re lsr strategy, something to contemplate: imo, it would be more useful generally to attempt a constant pace throughout the lsr over a pace you can't maintain/have to slow down on. If you think you might not be able to maintain 14:10-14:20 pace throughout, aim for ex 14:30-14:40. This would have - as well as physiological benefits - the psychological benefit of finishing strong, not 'beaten' into a slower pace. This goes for everyone, if you feel the need to slow drastically in the latter stages of a lsr, chances are you have misjudged the overall pace.
Keep mobile in the hours post lsr too, your muscles etc will thank you tomorrow!
Nice Luas Race seed sown
Thanks, DG! I had a look over our previous conversation about paces, and I did overestimate my pace a tad, but still my agreed 'easy' pace with you and my coach is 14:20 - 14:30 mins per mile so my LSR WAS done to my 'easy' pace, just at the faster end (instead of the slower end as I thought).
I'm still happy with the run. 10 consistent miles throughout and it felt good. I know some of you won't believe me but I did have to slow myself down a lot throughout just to keep to the 14:20 range. I'm also happy that my running miles (2-14) were all under 15 minutes (unlike my last LSR and the sun trap! :P) All in all, I did enjoy the run, felt strong and comfortable and not wrecked afterwards.
I also suspect my wrong turn slowed me up somewhat as I was constantly looking for street signs and checking side streets to see could I run down those and also had to pause for traffic a few times and once I had to wait for a Luas to pass by as the footpath was too narrow. I know, I know...excuses, excuses right? And who knows but that if I had kept on the right course I might still have slowed down.
But, you're right about paces and I will take your advice and slow down for my next LSR and run for 14:20-14:30 min/miles and see how it goes.
After I stretched I did housework and laundry and didn't sit down until much later. Does that count as being mobile? :pac: Legs feel pretty ok today considering.0 -
I had a wedding yesterday so decided to do my LSR after work on Friday instead. 20 miles @ 10:00/mile, 420ft elevation gain
Like last week I had the auto-pause on so this was actually a bit slower than 10:00/mile. I left a bag with a bottle of water with electrolytes and two gels inside the wall of the house and planned to loop by the house a few times to keep me hydrated. I did everything right during the day: big bowl of porridge for breakfast, pasta for lunch (and the night before) and drank lots of water. I was ready for road and hitting out the gap by 5:30.
I swung by the house on mile 8 to take a drink and again at mile 13. I also took a viper boost gel at mile 13 (last week I took an isogel at mile 16). I found it really tough on my own. With nobody to chat to at times all I could think about was the pain in my legs - not injury pain but that aching you get from running such long distances. I was really feeling it by mile 17 and did contemplate throwing in the towel but I talked myself out of it. I took another drink at mile 18 and knew this would get me home. From mile 16 onwards, hopping up on and down off footpaths continuously was hurting quite a bit. Nonetheless I made it home and was happy to have it done but I did find it much much tougher than last weeks run.
I did some stretching outside, came in and sat for a few minutes while I drank some water, maybe 500ml. Got to my room where I had the urge to lie on the floor for a it, as you do. Spent 15 or 20 minutes there before I started to get cold so I tried to gather myself to shower and to warm up but I was shivering with the cold and felt like rubbish. Had a shower doubled over with a pain in my tummy and finally got myself back into bed and all wrapped up. An hour or more after my run I was shivering uncontrollably and threw up all the water that I'd drank. Got sick once more after that, all water, before I was able to warm up and normality resumed about two hours after I finished my run. Was able to stomach a cup of tea and some ginger biscuits (it's all I and in the house). I felt like absolute rubbish for the whole two hours after the run but after my tea and bickies I was Aok.
I posted this report on my log on Saturday and CM, Nop and AKW have offered some great advice regarding nutrition, resisting the urge to lie down, keeping warm and not drinking too much water
I couldn't believe how much my experience running 20 miles this week differed so much to running almost the same distance (19.80) only 6 days earlier. It shows that it's the small things that count. Last week I took little sips of water every 3.5 miles (not big gulps on mile 8, 13, 17 & 20), last week I wore a long sleeved top for a bit of extra warmth (short sleeved this week), last week I had a cup of tea & slice of cake straight after my run (cold water this week), last week I put a hoodie & trackie bottoms on & got into a warm car after my run (cool bedroom floor this week), last week I had company (on my own this week) and last week I was on country roads with no footpaths to be hopping on and off of and wasn't stopping at traffic lights lots of times. Without realising it, I got lots of things right last week and had a bad experience this week but I've learned lots of lessons and I'm dam glad it happened now and not on the big day Hopefully there's something everyone can take from this and any advice would be very welcome
Thanks for this vivid report Neady, it's a timely reminder of the enormity of the challenge we're taking on. I try to keep telling myself that this is endurance and it's okay to feel tired and sore. I always run on my own so I can empathise the mental challenge of only having your body as company. One of the things that keeps cropping up in posts for me is the importance of routine, where I need to develop the habitual nature of things like warming up/down, stretching, nutrition, hydration etc. it's a lot to do.
Thanks again0 -
...concentrated on launching
Off big toes after listing to post put up earlier in week, seemed to keep
Better stride.
...
Stretching & ice bucket for 15 mins at least have Achilies feeling in good
Order, not easy keeping feet in bucket of ice water but well worth it.
Which post talked about launch off your big toe? I'd be seriously concerned about making that kind of change. Kinetic Rev is pretty good on this IMO. Here's one of his articles about the dangers of trying to change your footstrike.I did some stretching outside, came in and sat for a few minutes while I drank some water, maybe 500ml. Got to my room where I had the urge to lie on the floor for a it, as you do. Spent 15 or 20 minutes there before I started to get cold so I tried to gather myself to shower and to warm up but I was shivering with the cold and felt like rubbish. Had a shower doubled over with a pain in my tummy and finally got myself back into bed and all wrapped up. An hour or more after my run I was shivering uncontrollably and threw up all the water that I'd drank. Got sick once more after that, all water, before I was able to warm up and normality resumed about two hours after I finished my run. Was able to stomach a cup of tea and some ginger biscuits (it's all I and in the house). I felt like absolute rubbish for the whole two hours after the run but after my tea and bickies I was Aok.
I posted this report on my log on Saturday and CM, Nop and AKW have offered some great advice regarding nutrition, resisting the urge to lie down, keeping warm and not drinking too much water
Glad that you're ok, it sounds like a pretty horrible experience. Anecdotally, it's the cold water that I would prioritise avoiding again.0 -
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Clearlier wrote:I'd be seriously concerned about making that kind of change.
+1 to this, G. Plenty of time for tweaking your form/strike post Oct if needed. Also if you do, at some stage post Oct, go down this road I would also ensure you know what you are doing, why and what muscles is it going to activate so you are sure they are ready for it.
You are going really well so your focus needs to stay on keeping the faith and keeping on doing what you are doing....IMHO 0 -
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Skittle8710, would love to hear more Any chance??! Well done on the sub 2 hour, especially after illness! How is recovery going and be kind to your body, it's been through a lot. Easy easy running this week.....
[/quote]
Short report so, since you asked so nicely.
Night before, drove from Cork to Tralee after work. When I got down unpacked and lay out all the bits and bobs to have ready for the following morning as I knew I'd be setting off early.
Got out to Dingle around 8.20 and parked up. Was feeling the freshest I have in weeks which was great as I was nervous the fatigue /headaches may return on the morning. Did a quick jog around the village and was ready to go.
Set off with the 2hr pacing group. Spent the first mile focusing on getting into a rhythm and keeping the form. Mile 1 was not a bother coming in just over 9 minutes. Felt the pace pick up a bit in Mile 2 and got a lil worried as I wasn't feeling too comfortable, the pacer explained it was a bit quicker than the first but needed that to pull back in some of the later miles.
Miles 3-8. There was great banter in the pacing group so the distraction meant the inclines weren't too painful and the miles seemed to go by fairly comfortably. Clocking in 9:10-20 minute miles consistently.
From mile 9 on I felt the miles starting the drag I was getting tired and getting paranoid about a niggle in the left ankle. Decided to take my gel thinking some fuel would spur me on. Took on as much water as i could at the next few stations. A lot of which was thrown over my ever glowing maroon face much to the amusement of some around me.
After mile 11 I was getting my breath back and getting into a nice steady pace again enjoying the beautiful scenery around. ...then mile 12 arrived and that dastardly hill. It knocked me for six!! The first half I just managed to keep up a jog all form was going out the window but it just seemed never ending so decided to give up and walk..until two fellas starting roaring at me to keep going. I left out a big roar "arghhhhh" (sorry to anyone I scared around me) and started to run again. Went through the marker at 9:38 was delighted it was over in under 10mins.
On the downhill in the last mile I felt I had some left in the tank so decided to give it welly for the last stretch and sprinted over the line with 1:58:09 on my watch, a couple minutes over my pb but delighted.
Got my lovely medal and goody bag and headed for the bus. We got a wanderly wagon which broke down on one of the hills back to town. Was quite funny people joking that we'd have to carry on and just complete the full instead. Eventually the bus got going, drove back to Tralee and hopped into my bed. Boy did I enjoy that nap
Well done everyone (and your dogs!) on the LSRs this weekend seems to be some fantastic milestones achieved by people, ye must be buzzing. Also well done to those who got pbs in Dingle - no mean feat on that course!0 -
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Well done Skittles, sounds like you really enjoyed it too!! I was also on your bus, and was genuinely about to ask the driver if I could just get out and run the rest of the way (this was mile 22) when he kept rolling back down the hill :eek: 0
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FeenaM, you've been too quiet Good to hear from you, thanks for popping in. Loving the self awareness and yup, non-race racing sucks onwards this week but....don't worry too much about the faster-paced mileage. Long and slow will have more benefit at this stage unless you have been given a specific purpose this week?
Thanks and you are so right - onwards and upwards from now (in mileage, not pace of course). This week I have a 19 mile LSR on Wednesday and feeling fresh and ready to go for it today.
I tried a Kinetica Energy Gel and this went down very well during Dingle so hopefully that will be how i can fuel going forward. I see there are a few more people that haven't felt well after a long run and like them Im not sure it was anything to do with the gel in the first place. I was more head sick than tummy sick if that makes sense.
By the way, is there plan for a meet up this weekend or was that last weekend?0 -
Well done Skittles, sounds like you really enjoyed it too!! I was also on your bus, and was genuinely about to ask the driver if I could just get out and run the rest of the way (this was mile 22) when he kept rolling back down the hill :eek:
Haha I think everyone was about to abandon ship just before he managed to rev it up the hill!! When we had to yield for the ambulance I feared we may not get going again. The poor full marathon runners having to manoeuvre around our crock of a bus added to the craic all the same hehe. 0 -
kennyg, another great PMP run...with ahem man flu :rolleyes: So when are you getting the upgrade to pneuman-moania?!
I'd be a bit wary about getting up on your toes too much tho. If that's not your normal stride - and even if it is - it can put enormous pressure on your achilles :eek:
If it ain't broke....
And is 15 mins a bit long for icing? Myles Splitz or Clearlier, what's the latest on this please?
All in all tho, well done
Quote:
Originally Posted by Clearlier
I'd be seriously concerned about making that kind of change.
+1 to this, G. Plenty of time for tweaking your form/strike post Oct if needed. Also if you do, at some stage post Oct, go down this road I would also ensure you know what you are doing, why and what muscles is it going to activate so you are sure they are ready for it.
You are going really well so your focus needs to stay on keeping the faith and keeping on doing what you are doing....IMHO
Thanks for advice, probably over simplified my comment, it was to
do with running efficacy, and it was about lift off, rather than landing
trying to concentrate on big toe being last part of foot to leave ground
when launching off, no intention changing running style this side of Marathon, have had enough bother. Just little experimenting when u
get mind drift to pull head back into Run.
There where lots of strengthening exercise to go with it also, probably
just a case of thinking about stride make you run little better anyway.
wouldn't have time or energy to invest to much time in it at moment,
thanks for link Clearlier , will have a read.
appreciate all comments. Must say though Ice Bucket has been most
effective thing to keep Achilles up till now, not sure of exactly how long
should leave for, but think I was told 15mins & would be glad if was less,
but seems to work.
Thanks
G0 -
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What's your guys' (novices, advisers, lurkers etc) recovery routine? What protein do you take for recovery and your protein meal after a run?
I'm just curious and asking for conversation sake, not looking for someone to tell me what to do for recovery! 0
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