Should Ireland apologize for its role in the creation of the British Empire?

coffee with colm · 07-09-2015 05:05AM #1

I visited the soldiers and chiefs exhibition at Collin's Barracks more than once in the past and what struck me about the exhibition was that it said that Ireland provided more troops to the British Empire per head of population more than England, Scotland or Wales.

The statistics vary over time by on more than one occasion or period in time this is the case.

I thought that was a very interesting fact considering that relations between Britain and Ireland have been so bad in the past.

Obviously this isn't to say we had a role in running it but we did contribute a lot of troops which brought a lot of terror and misery to native populations of the world.

So this begs the question; should we apologize for our imperial past?

tritium · 07-09-2015 06:09AM

Apologise for being conquered, oppressed and used as cannon fodder?

That's a new on OP

pauldla · 07-09-2015 06:25AM

I'd imagine a good few of the young men who took the kings shilling were trying to escape from the terror and misery of life in our own fair isle.

Car99 · 07-09-2015 06:42AM

Magnificent suggestion shall we apologise for being dependant on potatoes too and causing a famine.

StonyIron · 07-09-2015 06:57AM

Since "we" had no control whatsoever over the British army I'm not sure how that would work.

kneemos · 07-09-2015 07:00AM

Apologising for historical events is pointless,should never have started and needs to stop.

Peregrinus · 07-09-2015 07:08AM

I think the fact that lots of Irish people were involved in an injustice doesn't, in itself, warrant an apology from those not involved, just because they too are Irish.

They would need to have been acting in some representative capacity, on behalf of the (Irish) nation before there would be the kind of shared or collective responsibility, in the context of which an apology might make sense.

REXER · 07-09-2015 07:14AM

coffee with colm wrote: »

I visited the soldiers and chiefs exhibition at Collin's Barracks more than once in the past and what struck me about the exhibition was that it said that Ireland provided more troops to the British Empire per head of population more than England, Scotland or Wales.

The statistics vary over time by on more than one occasion or period in time this is the case.

I thought that was a very interesting fact considering that relations between Britain and Ireland have been so bad in the past.

Obviously this isn't to say we had a role in running it but we did contribute a lot of troops which brought a lot of terror and misery to native populations of the world.

So this begs the question; should we apologize for our imperial past?

Are you nuts? The British Empire dragged millions of people out of the stone age, created workable infrastructures in countries all around the world and provided the first real medicine to people that up to that point had been totally dependent on witch craft and the local witch doctor and education that helped bring light and food to these people!

If anything the Ireland should be ashamed of their roll in how the de-colonisation and destruction of the British Empire and other European empires was done as that is one of main the causes of the current chaos that has resulted in the flood of refugees and migrants in the Med!

CEOL40 · 07-09-2015 07:30AM

The British empire is/was a vicious, destructive entity and we should be proud of our role in crippling it. Could you imagine the horror if that idiot Cameron and the in-bred Windsors had anything like the power they used to have?

REXER · 07-09-2015 07:33AM

CEOL40 wrote: »

The British empire is/was a vicious, destructive entity and we should be proud of our role in crippling it. Could you imagine the horror if that idiot Cameron and the in-bred Windsors had anything like the power they used to have?

LOL......:rolleyes:

Deedsie · 07-09-2015 07:40AM

coffee with colm wrote: »

I visited the soldiers and chiefs exhibition at Collin's Barracks more than once in the past and what struck me about the exhibition was that it said that Ireland provided more troops to the British Empire per head of population more than England, Scotland or Wales.

The statistics vary over time by on more than one occasion or period in time this is the case.

I thought that was a very interesting fact considering that relations between Britain and Ireland have been so bad in the past.

Obviously this isn't to say we had a role in running it but we did contribute a lot of troops which brought a lot of terror and misery to native populations of the world.

So this begs the question; should we apologize for our imperial past?

Ireland should apologise in the same way African Americans should apologise for their role in the triangular trade. Ireland was a colony with a legal structure that only the elite had any kind of rights. Most Irish people who fought for the British army and navy did so out of necessity rather than desire.

Peregrinus · 07-09-2015 07:51AM

And it's probably worth pointing out that the Indian Army (raised by the British and under British command) was much, much larger than the British Army. Far more Indians, therefore, were involved in implementing British colonial policy than were Britons. Should India therefore be apologising to India for the colonisation of India?

In the end, the issue is not where the soldiers were recruited. What matters is who recruited them, and used them to implement an offensive policy.

BMJD · 07-09-2015 08:08AM

No they should apologise to us. And give us free Sky Sports.

kneemos · 07-09-2015 08:18AM

How about everybody apologises to everyone.

Just in case loike.

FTA69 · 07-09-2015 08:30AM

coffee with colm wrote: »

So this begs the question; should we apologize for our imperial past?

There were plenty Congolese in the Belgian Army and Algerians in the Frnch Army, were they all collaborative empire builders as well?

We were a colonised nation that had a million and a half people starve to death while the British government looked on. You can fup off if you think we've anything to apologise for.

Dozen Wicked Words · 07-09-2015 08:32AM

kneemos wrote: »

How about everybody apologises to everyone.

Just in case loike.

Sorry

irishmover · 07-09-2015 08:33AM

I think the OP should apologise for using American English when talking about Ireland and the British Empire.

StonyIron · 07-09-2015 08:33AM

It was another era. We left the UK, the British Empire and even the Commonwealth largely on the basis that we didn't agree with it.

I am all for building a strong relationship with the modern UK as neighbours on a mutually respecting basis.

However, this would be like asking the Swiss to apologise for the Roman Empire!

Ken. · 07-09-2015 08:37AM

Per head of population their are more Irish descendants in America than any other nationality. Should we apologise for the Vietnam war and the 2 gulf wars also?.

PARlance · 07-09-2015 08:40AM

We say "sorry" about 20 times a day. We've apologised enough.

irishmover · 07-09-2015 08:44AM

ken wrote: »

Per head of population their are more Irish descendants in America than any other nationality. Should we apologise for the Vietnam war and the 2 gulf wars also?.

Aboriginal Genocide aswell.

Peregrinus · 07-09-2015 08:46AM

REXER wrote: »

Are you nuts? The British Empire dragged millions of people out of the stone age, created workable infrastructures in countries all around the world and provided the first real medicine to people that up to that point had been totally dependent on witch craft and the local witch doctor and education that helped bring light and food to these people!

None of this is actually true, though, is it? The only stone age country the British ever colonised was Australia, and they didn't exactly bring "real medicine" to the indigenous people. In fact, most people accept that British colonisation of Australia was an unmitigated disaster for the indigenous people, from which they have still yet to recover.

Other countries colonised by the British - e.g. Ireland, India - were in no sense in the stone age, they weren't dependent for medical care on witch doctors, and they already had educational institutions (which, now and then, the British weren't above destroying).

StonyIron · 07-09-2015 08:59AM

Colonisation is generally bad. It's basically invasion and takeover of a country and it's often dressed up retrospectively as "bringing civilisation".

In many cases the British Empire colonised countries with far older civilisations than Britian had itself.

Invariably it's about conquest and grabbing resources.

The European colonial powers also saw it as a bit of a race to take over the most places.

Let's not engage in revisionism about the British Empire or any other empire for that matter.

Fratton Fred · 07-09-2015 10:28AM

Deedsie wrote: »

only the elite had any kind of rights. Most Irish people who fought for the British army and navy did so out of necessity rather than desire.

So no different to any other country then.

LordSutch · 07-09-2015 11:01AM

coffee with colm wrote: »

I visited the soldiers and chiefs exhibition at Collin's Barracks more than once in the past and what struck me about the exhibition was that it said that Ireland provided more troops to the British Empire per head of population more than England, Scotland or Wales.

The statistics vary over time by on more than one occasion or period in time this is the case.

I thought that was a very interesting fact considering that relations between Britain and Ireland have been so bad in the past.

Obviously this isn't to say we had a role in running it but we did contribute a lot of troops which brought a lot of terror and misery to native populations of the world.

So this begs the question; should we apologize for our imperial past?

Good post, good question . . .

Alas this is the wrong forum if you want a reasoned debate about our part in the creation of Empire. Indeed right up until recently (maybe twenty years ago) it would have been unheard of for somebody to suggest that Irish people actuall had any part in creating the British Empire :eek:

Nowadays we hear a lot of bleating about our 'colonial masters: and the awful hardship bestowed upon is by the British Empire, > whilst all the time while we were actually plugged into & part of it.

The truth is much more complicated and revealing about ourselves and our schizophrenic relationship with our heritage, our history, and our relationships with the people on our neighbouring island, who we love, hate, embrace, and reject in equal measure? The real history is too uncomfortable for many to stomach in this nice "ex colonial" Empire bashing country. Our very DNA is stamped all over the now long dead Empire.

This same national "amnesia" could have been applied to those Irish men who fought (250.000) and died in the Great War, only to be airbrushed out of our history until about fifteen or twenty years ago? when they too were slowly recognised (as having existed) and sacrificed themselves as Irish men fighting for the Allies in the British/Irish army.

NUTLEY BOY · 07-09-2015 11:02AM

No.

Nodin · 07-09-2015 11:07AM

REXER wrote: »

Are you nuts? The British Empire dragged millions of people out of the stone age, created workable infrastructures in countries all around the world and provided the first real medicine to people that up to that point had been totally dependent on witch craft and the local witch doctor and education that helped bring light and food to these people!

If anything the Ireland should be ashamed of their roll in how the de-colonisation and destruction of the British Empire and other European empires was done as that is one of main the causes of the current chaos that has resulted in the flood of refugees and migrants in the Med!

I hope to jaysus that's sarcasm.

Nodin · 07-09-2015 11:09AM

LordSutch wrote: »

Good post, (..............)/Irish army.

The only relationship was that of abused and abuser. The Brits used us the same way they used the Scots, Sikhs and whoever else - using the desperation of a subjugated people to aid in subjugating others.

LordSutch · 07-09-2015 11:11AM

^ ^ ^ There was no conscription here, yet Irish men in their droves went off to fight, without coersion . . .

Nodin · 07-09-2015 11:14AM

LordSutch wrote: »

^ ^ ^ There was no conscription here, yet Irish men in their droves went off to fight, without coersion . . .

What period are you referring to, precisely?

LordSutch · 07-09-2015 11:16AM

1914-1918 The Great War.

Should Ireland apologize for its role in the creation of the British Empire?

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