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DCM 2015: Mentored Novices Thread
Comments
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Just want to explain why I say go with wear them now. I started marathon training last Spring and I bought myself an expensive pair of Asics Gel Kayano's for €140 as they were the 'best' runners for running a marathon. After a few weeks the inside of my right knee started to really hurt and then I developed IT band problems.....
....very painful
I then got some really good advice from a girl in Elverys and she said I needed a different type of runner as my arches were too high and I was 'underpronating' when I ran and the Kayano's were all wrong for me and more for a flat/normal arch. I bought a pair of Asics Gel Pulse 5 (half the price of Kayano's) and the problems went away overnight and I have avoided the physio for 9 months now!! Painful and expensive lesson learned about buying 'expensive' runners that may not be right for you, I now cut the grass in the Kayano's....
I reckon that 'in the name of science' Windora should wear one new runner and one old and report back her findings to us on Monday morning
There was an interesting survey done (at the end of a race IIRC) some time ago (probably 20 years ago now) which matched injury rate during the previous year with the price of runners and there was a correlation between the price of the runners and the rate of injuries where a higher priced runner equated to a higher chance of injury! Of course correlation does not equal causation and it could well be that the injured runners had overcome their injuries by buying the more expensive runners!0 -
Hi, I have an idea...or twoThis Fat Girl Runs wrote: »Hmmm....my schedule is a little complicated...as follows:
Monday: Recovery run (used to be PT session)
Tuesday: Rest (Soon to include college course)
Wednesday: hard run
Thursday: easy run (now with hill, used to be just easy)
Friday: rest
Saturday: PT with HIIT
Sunday: LSR
Not much wriggle room to move things around...the hills are new to September and replace Monday's HIIT. Tuesdays are out now with my college course starting up. If I do hills plus easy run on Friday that's two days with HIIT followed by two days running so 4 days on with no rest, and a Tuesday and Thursday rest day seem to be too close together. My coach didn't want that for me.
Any ideas? I actually don't feel too bad today all things considered. I stretched well (always do) after last night's run so legs feel ok this morning.
But first, apart from Tuesday, are Thursday and Friday interchangeable re training and rest?
Jusr reread post :rolleyes: so i'm guessing, theoretically, yes they are.
So your focus is: endurance, general aerobic conditioning, form and general strength and conditioning. The first two are covered by running, the third - form - can be covered by running and gym and the last, S&C is done in the gym.
Starting backwards, you should have (and I think you have) done the majority of S&C work by now and at this stage, you only need to tip the plate once a week to keep it spinning.
Would it be an option to reduce the session to 45 mins max with reduced intensity too and sandwich it with a 15-20 min warm up and cool down jog?
The form maintenance can be done in the gym/at home (15 mins once or twice a week). It can also be maintained with strides and/or the short steep hill sprints I mentioned. These can be done once a week and incorporated into your easy run. They don't create fatigue or require a recovery/rest day after. I'll link to the previous posts if you need.
The other two boxes to be ticked overlap. These are endurance and general aerobic fitness (just running easy and generally ). The lsr covers endurance. You have two other sessions you are trying to squeeze in: tempo and endurance hills. Can you alternate these each week?
So a two week block could look like this:
| w1|w2
M|rec run|rec run
T|rest|rest
W|easy with strides|easy with hill sprints (short and steep)
Th|rest/rec|rest/rec
F|easy with endurance hills|tempo
S|gym with w/u and c/d|gym with w/u and c/d
Sun|lsr|lsr
Thursday and friday are interchangeable.0 -
Hi, I have an idea...or two But first, apart from Tuesday, are Thursday and Friday interchangeable re training and rest?
Actually, I just went back over my emails with my coach and I might be a little confused so I've emailed her to check. I might have mistaken the plan to include two HIIT sessions instead of one (i.e hills + during PT instead of hills OR during PT).
I'll let you know!0 -
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coolhandspan wrote: »Did a 10 miler last night, have sore left hip flexor last week since 16 mile. going to take two days off ... then 18 sunday..
training getting pretty serious now. prob overtrained a little last few weeks.
Hi coolhandspan. Sounds like a good call, good to hear too that you're in tune with your body Does it warrant a physio check do you think? You might get some useful specific strength and mobility exercises to do.
Have a look here too, this popped up on the main forum this week.0 -
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Hi, I have an idea...or two But first, apart from Tuesday, are Thursday and Friday interchangeable re training and rest?
Jusr reread post :rolleyes: so i'm guessing, theoretically, yes they are.
So your focus is: endurance, general aerobic conditioning, form and general strength and conditioning. The first two are covered by running, the third - form - can be covered by running and gym and the last, S&C is done in the gym.
Starting backwards, you should have (and I think you have) done the majority of S&C work by now and at this stage, you only need to tip the plate once a week to keep it spinning.
Would it be an option to reduce the session to 45 mins max with reduced intensity too and sandwich it with a 15-20 min warm up and cool down jog?
The form maintenance can be done in the gym/at home (15 mins once or twice a week). It can also be maintained with strides and/or the short steep hill sprints I mentioned. These can be done once a week and incorporated into your easy run. They don't create fatigue or require a recovery/rest day after. I'll link to the previous posts if you need.
The other two boxes to be ticked overlap. These are endurance and general aerobic fitness (just running easy and generally ). The lsr covers endurance. You have two other sessions you are trying to squeeze in: tempo and endurance hills. Can you alternate these each week?
So a two week block could look like this:
| w1|w2
M|rec run|rec run
T|rest|rest
W|easy with strides|easy with hill sprints (short and steep)
Th|rest/rec|rest/rec
F|easy with endurance hills|tempo
S|gym with w/u and c/d|gym with w/u and c/d
Sun|lsr|lsr
Thursday and friday are interchangeable.
Ok, have heard from my coach and yes, I was wrong. I'm only to do one HIIT session per week. I can choose hill intervals OR HIIT with my PT OR I could do hills BEFORE I do PT on Saturdays with proper warm up and cool down.
I'm not someone who is good with change though. I'm a creature of habit and change confuses/scares me! Soooo...if I keep my Thursday session as an easy run I can keep my Friday rest day and do HIIT on Saturday in some form or other?
Does that sound right/ok?
:rolleyes::o 0 -
This Fat Girl Runs wrote: »Ok, have heard from my coach and yes, I was wrong. I'm only to do one HIIT session per week. I can choose hill intervals OR HIIT with my PT OR I could do hills BEFORE I do PT on Saturdays with proper warm up and cool down.
I'm not someone who is good with change though. I'm a creature of habit and change confuses/scares me! Soooo...if I keep my Thursday session as an easy run I can keep my Friday rest day and do HIIT on Saturday in some form or other?
Does that sound right/ok?:rolleyes::o
What the most important thing when marathon training? The most important thing is to run, everything else comes second. At this stage (7 weeks) your sole focus should be to run as much as possible. I know that sounds simplistic but every single you do from here on in should be done to maximise your marathon day performance.
Gym work, HIT (whatever that is), corework etc. all comes second. Sure, all that supplementary work helps but from here on in it's all about running, getting the miles in the legs. With a taper, everyone just has 5 weeks training left. Train smart, get the miles in. Simples. There's no need to over-complicate and overuse the garmin (.15 of a mile?!). Just run by feel. That's the only real way you'll learn.
Stop fretting about the secondary activities and .15 of a mile repeats. Concern yourself with simply running. Hard days hard, easy days easy.0 -
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I have a general query. We're doing our first 20 mile this week, with another one in 3 weeks. Is there anything to gain by doing, say, 22 instead of 20, or is it just better to stick to the plan? I know there was some discussion about anything over 3 hours running (and 20 will probably take me about 3:45 or at LSR pace) is pointless. Mentally, I don't think it will do me any good, as I believe I will be able to do the 26 and honestly, the thoughts of running in the group on the day and the crowds are getting me through any tough parts in my LSRs currently! It's just a general query. I'm lucky from the point of view that I've not had to miss a day of training really yet. I think I've done all the miles required by the plan so far and been relatively injury free, bar some small shin pain that hasn't resurfaced in weeks. At the moment, I'll be following the plan, I'm just curious if there would be any benefit to doing a mile or two extra on the second 20?
I'd say get through the first 20 miles first and then you can reassess
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Seriously though I would normally get to a new distance, get through that once (normally find it pretty hard tbh) then get through it a second time a lot more comfortably. Getting through it comfortably the 2nd time will do a lot for your confidence but if you're planning to do a 22 mile for your second 'really long run' it might be a bit of a struggle and knock your confidence.
Basically don't mess with the plan I say!!0 -
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I'd say get through the first 20 miles first and then you can reassess.
Seriously though I would normally get to a new distance, get through that once (normally find it pretty hard tbh) then get through it a second time a lot more comfortably. Getting through it comfortably the 2nd time will do a lot for your confidence but if you're planning to do a 22 mile for your second 'really long run' it might be a bit of a struggle and knock your confidence.
Basically don't mess with the plan I say!!
Cheers for the reply, all of you. I was expecting that reply anyways, but no harm in asking! As you said, the thoughts of doing 22 after doing a bad 20 are not pleasant! I'll stick to my 20 miles so! Thanks!
I do think the crowd/group will get me through the last 6 miles anyway. One of my favourite/easiest half marathon distances was the Killarney one where I had people to chat to for the whole time, which was a difference compared to normal races where I'm solo!0 -
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I can't believe how fast the weeks are flying by in this program.I got this weeks LSR completed this morning - 16 miles, again a new long distance for me. I don't normally like running in laps but I enjoyed the 8 mile route on wednesday so I decided to do that twice today. It also gave me the benefit of being able to leave water and isogels at my gate which would be exactly half way through the run. I wasn't sure how four straight days running would go, but it was either run today and have it done, or face having to get up on Sunday and do it, before going to see Galway (hopefully) skin the cats!! Today got the vote.
My target time is still 4 hours, and this seems to be still on the cards at the moment, so I've been running my LSR at about 6.45/km so far. Today I ran at between 6.17-6.30/km throughout and it felt very comfortable all the time.This is obviously a progression as a result of keeping the main plan the main plan and I assume (or hope) that this pace is still ok for slowing down those medium twitchy thingys talked about earlier. The 26km (16 miles) took me 2hrs 47Mins today.
Nutrition wise, I had a big bowl of porridge and honey about an hour before I ran, then after 13km I took an isogel and a few swigs of water with an elctrolyte tab in it. I brought another isogel with me, more for practice than need and I had it at 20km. Although I was tired at the end, I don't feel physically shattered after this run.Sure with 'only' 20km next weekend, it'll be a walk in the park!!
Also, some on here might be interested in this:
When I was in the local pharmacy a few weeks back for a bucket of Epsom Salts, a friend of mine who works there recommended it to me.She called it ' an epsom salt bath without the bath.' After my long runs, I have used it on my legs straight after the shower. When its massaged in, I havent felt any soreness in my legs after the runs. Bear in mind though I always spend about 10-15 mins stretching/foam rolling also. Might be useful to some on here, I definitley think it was €15 well spent. (One word of caution though - ALWAYS wear underwear before spraying around the lower body!! Just saying 0-( )0 -
Yup, i'm confused now! I'm bginning to realise I work best in tabular formThis Fat Girl Runs wrote: »Ok, have heard from my coach and yes, I was wrong. I'm only to do one HIIT session per week. I can choose hill intervals OR HIIT with my PT OR I could do hills BEFORE I do PT on Saturdays with proper warm up and cool down.
I'm not someone who is good with change though. I'm a creature of habit and change confuses/scares me! Soooo...if I keep my Thursday session as an easy run I can keep my Friday rest day and do HIIT on Saturday in some form or other?
Does that sound right/ok?:rolleyes::o
Absolutely agree DR and thanks for jumping in here, very much appreciated! I think in the case of TFGR, the supplementary work has formed a large part of getting her to this place hence her reluctance to let it go. Simple running - long and easy miles - will get all of you novices over the line. TFGR spends a lot of time on her feet getting the miles in, hence mixing it up a bit lately.dublin runner wrote: »What the most important thing when marathon training? The most important thing is to run, everything else comes second. At this stage (7 weeks) your sole focus should be to run as much as possible. I know that sounds simplistic but every single you do from here on in should be done to maximise your marathon day performance.
Gym work, HIT (whatever that is), corework etc. all comes second. Sure, all that supplementary work helps but from here on in it's all about running, getting the miles in the legs. With a taper, everyone just has 5 weeks training left. Train smart, get the miles in. Simples. There's no need to over-complicate and overuse the garmin (.15 of a mile?!). Just run by feel. That's the only real way you'll learn.
Stop fretting about the secondary activities and .15 of a mile repeats. Concern yourself with simply running. Hard days hard, easy days easy.
I think you need to clarify with S exactly what the week involves. How do you get your schedule? Is each day clearly outlined and explained? Don't be afraid to ask her what the purpose of each session is. As DR says, your focus is to get the miles in - and this is for you all: everything else is secondary. If your gym session etc is leaving you wrecked, you're doing too much (duration/quantity/intensity).This Fat Girl Runs wrote: »Thanks for the wise words. Easy to get lost in the woods for the trees and focus on the little things so as not to get too nervous over the big one!0 -
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I can't believe how fast the weeks are flying by in this program.I got this weeks LSR completed this morning - 16 miles, again a new long distance for me. I don't normally like running in laps but I enjoyed the 8 mile route on wednesday so I decided to do that twice today. It also gave me the benefit of being able to leave water and isogels at my gate which would be exactly half way through the run. I wasn't sure how four straight days running would go, but it was either run today and have it done, or face having to get up on Sunday and do it, before going to see Galway (hopefully) skin the cats!! Today got the vote.
My target time is still 4 hours, and this seems to be still on the cards at the moment, so I've been running my LSR at about 6.45/km so far. Today I ran at between 6.17-6.30/km throughout and it felt very comfortable all the time.This is obviously a progression as a result of keeping the main plan the main plan and I assume (or hope) that this pace is still ok for slowing down those medium twitchy thingys talked about earlier. The 26km (16 miles) took me 2hrs 47Mins today.
Nutrition wise, I had a big bowl of porridge and honey about an hour before I ran, then after 13km I took an isogel and a few swigs of water with an elctrolyte tab in it. I brought another isogel with me, more for practice than need and I had it at 20km. Although I was tired at the end, I don't feel physically shattered after this run.Sure with 'only' 20km next weekend, it'll be a walk in the park!!
Also, some on here might be interested in this:
When I was in the local pharmacy a few weeks back for a bucket of Epsom Salts, a friend of mine who works there recommended it to me.She called it ' an epsom salt bath without the bath.' After my long runs, I have used it on my legs straight after the shower. When its massaged in, I havent felt any soreness in my legs after the runs. Bear in mind though I always spend about 10-15 mins stretching/foam rolling also. Might be useful to some on here, I definitley think it was €15 well spent.
Great report ratracer, thanks! Your paces are spot on, well done. Very good practice going on with hydrating and fuelling too. Sounds like your comfort levels are within a tolerable zone although you'd expect to feel various levels of discomfort after runs of 12 miles or more. And you always stretch and foam roll? Boxes ticked, ticked and ticked 0 -
Great report ratracer, thanks! Your paces are spot on, well done. Very good practice going on with hydrating and fuelling too. Sounds like your comfort levels are within a tolerable zone although you'd expect to feel various levels of discomfort after runs of 12 miles or more. And you always stretch and foam roll? Boxes ticked, ticked and ticked
Physio's hurt and make me cry.....I don't like them people much!! A foam roll a day keeps the nasty physio's away:D 0 -
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Yup, i'm confused now! I'm bginning to realise I work best in tabular form
Absolutely agree DR and thanks for jumping in here, very much appreciated! I think in the case of TFGR, the supplementary work has formed a large part of getting her to this place hence her reluctance to let it go. Simple running - long and easy miles - will get all of you novices over the line. TFGR spends a lot of time on her feet getting the miles in, hence mixing it up a bit lately.
I think you need to clarify with S exactly what the week involves. How do you get your schedule? Is each day clearly outlined and explained? Don't be afraid to ask her what the purpose of each session is. As DR says, your focus is to get the miles in - and this is for you all: everything else is secondary. If your gym session etc is leaving you wrecked, you're doing too much (duration/quantity/intensity).
Thanks DG. My schedule is done up on a spreadsheet so each day is outlined and what to do i.e paces to run at. It was only me getting confused over our emails that had me thinking I need to do two HIIT sessions a week. So now that that is cleared up, it all makes sense now. No, my gym session doesn't leave me feeling wrecked. I recover quite quickly from it as we only do a short amount of HIIT and then do pilates/core which is nice and gentle. Anyway, I won't do HIIT tomorrow as I've already done it on Thursday.
Although, I can't see how anyone might think I'm not putting in the miles but fair enough, all this talk of intervals might have confused people. Trust me, I'm still running my miles! Planned 15 miler for Sunday. Will run partway to Howth and back for it. Now THAT's a shocker because in my mind, Howth is at least 20 miles out from Dublin :pac::pac: (feels like it when I'm going on the train anyway!). Also, as mentioned a few times, I've dropped a PT session for a 4th run so. 0 -
Don't be worried about being given out to for doing your last mile too fastI was way too tired to do the run yesterday after all the Ikea construction and emptying a house into a skip! I got up at half 6 this morning before work to get it done. It went well, with an average pace of 11:11 or so, though my last mile was faster, I maintain that I kept a good steady pace, as the last mile home is fairly downhill for a good .4 of a mile which always speeds me up! It's normal to have a pace increase here without much extra effort, perceived or otherwise. Your body is well warmed up at this stage.
And I agree with the others re lsr increase. You will do just as well on a max 20 mile lsr. Have faith in the plan
Hi BC1. Do you think you'd feel comfortable doing this by feel? A tempo run would usually be comfortably hard and imo 'steady' is a notch or two below this on the effort scale. It's only a mile and is not designed to leave your legs and body wrecked before tomorrow's lsr.Hi guys,
Just a quick one. I have a '1 mile easy, 1 mile steady, 1 mile easy' to complete today before my LSR in the morning. Not sure what pace I'm supposed to run for the steady mile. I have a PMP of 10min/mile and I'm now running all my training sessions at around 10.50 - 11.20 mins/mile.0 -
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Don't be worried about being given out to for doing your last mile too fast It's normal to have a pace increase here without much extra effort, perceived or otherwise. Your body is well warmed up at this stage.
And I agree with the others re lsr increase. You will do just as well on a max 20 mile lsr. Have faith in the plan
Oh, I have full faith in the plan. It's gotten me this far!0
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