"Haunting Image Of Drowned Boy Sums Up Consequences Of 'The Syrian War'"

efb · 02-09-2015 10:52PM

"We all inhabit this planet. We all breathe the same air. We all cherish our children's future. And we are all mortal" JFK #RefugeesWelcome

Dohnjoe · 02-09-2015 10:53PM

beks101 wrote: »

It's a jarring, horrifying and deeply upsetting image that provokes strong emotions in anyone who sees it - most of us know young kids this age and in our wildest nightmares no young kid would ever be washed up on a beach like this, it's unspeakable.

But it's happening in countless numbers every day and with the Syrian winter on its way and the issue of uncontrolled migration deepening and no common refugee policy in Europe, the Mediterranean is going to become an even bigger graveyard to fleeing families, and children, and toddlers like this.

I think the whole of Europe and the EU is suffering from Not In My Backyard (NIMBY) syndrome and no amount of dead babies on beaches is going to change that any time soon. Happy enough to sympathize and be publicly appalled; not so happy when 3,000 refugees rock into our national port/train station seeking food and housing and the freedom and status that their home countries deprived them of. Look at Kos - riot police to tear gas them; Hungary - four-metre border walls and caging them like animals outside Keleti train station; Germany - arson attacks on refugee centres.

Widespread xenophobia from European politicians and even on this thread, as the tragedy of these individual media stories morphs into a potentially overwhelming number within spitting distance of our own borders.

And it's not really that surprising really. There are no measures - zilch, sweet FA - in place to help the few EU countries, not least the ever impoverished Greece, that are taking in the bulk of these refugees.

It's easy to be shocked and appalled and upset. Sadly I don't think this horrific image will have any political or practical impact whatsoever.

Sadly very true

There are some rays of humanity though.. German police in Munich were forced to ask people to stop donating for refugees after they were absolutely inundated yesterday

efb · 02-09-2015 10:53PM

johnty56 wrote: »

I think that the photograph is terrible. Deeply shocking.

Am I the only one that feels angry at the parents though? They probably travelled from a safe haven such as Turkey. What right minded parent would put their children in such risk?

I have kids.. no way would I undertake that journey with them, I would put up with relative deprivations in another part of Syria, or Turkey and wait until things improved in Syria. Safety would be my paramount concern.

Or do we think these things to ease our feelings of guilt?

02-09-2015 10:54PM

efb wrote: »

"We all inhabit this planet. We all breathe the same air. We all cherish our children's future. And we are all mortal" JFK #RefugeesWelcome

Ireland is a very open country. I don't think anyone has said refugees aren't welcome, I think its more along the lines of how they are welcomed.

efb · 02-09-2015 10:55PM

Yurt! wrote: »

They largest groups claiming asylum in the EU are Kosovans and Ukrainians according to stats I've seen in the IT.

Both have had recent bloody conficts

timthumbni · 02-09-2015 10:55PM

petrolcan wrote: »

I'm in the UK but yes, I'd be willing. I can't offer a room but they're more than welcome to pitch a tent in the garden and have a daily shower.

The UK has 2.7 Million, about 4.5% of the population. They're very integrated.

So there are no issues with immigration in the UK at all then?

And re your offer about your garden and tent fair plays to you. You could be genuine but I suspect that most on here who are up for offering spare rooms etc will probably not go through with it.

efb · 02-09-2015 10:56PM

Deleted User wrote: »

Ireland is a very open country. I don't think anyone has said refugees aren't welcome, I think its more along the lines of how they are welcomed.

With care and compassion hopefully.

petrolcan · 02-09-2015 10:58PM

Eugene Norman wrote: »

Jordan isn't Qatar or Saudi Arabia.

It was in reply to:

"Also, how come the countries around the area like Saudi Arabia, Qatar, etc are not helping their fellow muslisms out?"

But they are etc

AlekSmart · 02-09-2015 10:58PM

efb wrote: »

Where did you get the final statistic from???

That's actually a good point.

Italian Government agencies were the most diligent compilers of Statistics in relation to the migration,up until the end of 2014 and,coincidentally,the cessation of the Italian Navy's Mare Nostrum operation.

http://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/oct/31/italy-sea-mission-thousands-risk

Back then,the breakdown of adult seaborne arrivals was overwhelmingly male by a factor of c.3 to 1.

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-32387224

Italy: Arrivals by sea, 2014
Country Men Women Minors Total
Syria 25,155 6,203 10,965 42,323
Eritrea 24,061 6,076 4,192 34,329
Mali 9,382 27 529 9,938
Nigeria 6,989 1,454 557 9,000
Gambia 7,409 28 1,270 8,707
Palestinian 3,413 1,035 1,634 6,082
Somalia 3,010 1,104 1,642 5,756

Operation Triton,s statistics have tended to be reported mainly as "Big Picture" numbers,with figures such as 135,000...400,000 and now Germanys 800,000 providing the News Channels with suitably impressive figures to report.

Notwithstanding the awfullness of individual suffering as shown in this image,there remain significant elements of the current Migrant flow which remain largely ignored or glossed over for,as yet unclear, reasons.

In the absence of coherent responses from EU Leaders,we are left with the echoing words of a Madman to give some solace to our nervous electorates....

http://sputniknews.com/africa/20150423/1021247040.html

In 2004, Qaddafi began formalizing deals to help control the flow of migrants into Europe. Preying on European prejudices, he warned Italian President Silvio Berlusconi about a Europe which "might no longer be European, and even black, as there are millions who want to come in."What will be the reaction of the white and Christian Europeans faced with this influx of starving and ignorant Africans," he said, according to the Christian Science Monitor.

"We don’t know if Europe will remain an advanced and united continent or if it will be destroyed, as happened with the barbarian invasions."

The appeal to European racism paid off. In exchange for 5 billion euros a year – later renegotiated to 50 million euros – Qaddafi agreed to essentially shut down the Libyan coast. Watchtowers were built along beaches, and internment camps were set up to house those caught mid-transit near the Italian coast.

It wasn’t pleasant, but illegal migration through Libya dropped by 75% in 2010.

Eugene Norman · 02-09-2015 10:58PM

tonycascarino wrote: »

Must have been the Turkish community donating for fellow muslims.

As a side note, I don't have a problem with refugees but I do have a problem re how many are genuine cases.

Why "must it have been".

Eugene Norman · 02-09-2015 11:00PM

petrolcan wrote: »

Rent is increasing because the demand is up. Demand is up because people are moving for jobs and cannot afford to or just won't buy in the current climate. It was only a year ago (I think) that I read an article stating that there were several ghost estates, some unfinished.

Demand being up indicates a shortage in Dublin. The refugees need to be distributed.

Finish the estates, create some more employment, everyone wins!

Except that costs money.

muirsin · 02-09-2015 11:01PM

Just been reading though thread and I too was unaware of this child. Maybe one of thousands but...............
Where is our humanity. Reminds me of saying that for evil to prosper it is enough that good men do nothing. Well we def not good. This Is wrong. Very very very wrong. We cant stand for this. And we are a country known for our our generosity. Angela merkel is an example to all. She has really struck a chord in me.hope enda follows her lead

petrolcan · 02-09-2015 11:02PM

Eugene Norman wrote: »

A few months into the refugee crisis in Europe. That's correct.

http://ec.europa.eu/eurostat/statistics-explained/images/d/d5/Countries_of_origin_of_%28non-EU%29_asylum_seekers_in_the_EU-28_Member_States%2C_2013_and_2014_YB15_III.png

More than a few months.

02-09-2015 11:05PM

efb wrote: »

With care and compassion hopefully.

No I meant with legislation and how we are going to pay for it. Also how much we can afford to take in.

efb · 02-09-2015 11:05PM

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/jeremy-corbyn-blasts-david-cameron-for-wholly-inadequate-response-to-refugee-crisis-britain-is-being-shamed-by-our-european-neighbours-10483220.html

Corbyn on Cameron

Eugene Norman · 02-09-2015 11:05PM

petrolcan wrote: »

http://ec.europa.eu/eurostat/statistics-explained/images/d/d5/Countries_of_origin_of_%28non-EU%29_asylum_seekers_in_the_EU-28_Member_States%2C_2013_and_2014_YB15_III.png

More than a few months.

That's a year old. Clearly Europe was coping then. The newest figures must be much higher. Why do we know this? Because of the scenes we see on television

petrolcan · 02-09-2015 11:06PM

Reedsie wrote: »

Tomorrows Independent (UK)

(shocking image)

I know it sounds awful but I'm glad they are putting that picture on the front page.

I just wish the BBC would have the balls to show it too.

Yurt2 · 02-09-2015 11:06PM

efb wrote: »

Both have had recent bloody conficts

Never said they didn't, just noting that the largest migrant groups by quite a bit into the EU seem to have gone unnoticed by the press / social media.

petrolcan · 02-09-2015 11:07PM

Deleted User wrote: »

Yes, at least have shown support for terrorists.

No Irish would ever do that....

02-09-2015 11:08PM

petrolcan wrote: »

I know it sounds awful but I'm glad they are putting that picture on the front page.

I just wish the BBC would have the balls to show it too.

It does do a good job at highlighting how religion causes needless suffering.

02-09-2015 11:09PM

People often point to the Syrian war and place responsibility solely at the door of the West.

I think the same guilt and empathy people feel towards the migrants was the same guilt and empathy which prompted Western action in Syria in the first place. Britain and the US provided arms to the Syrian rebels with the hope that they would overthrow the dictator Assad's regime and establish democracy.

OK, it has turned out very very sour but the idea wasn't entirely without a good reason.

I think it goes to show that basing a government's response on "feelings" is very short sighted and wrong. If we in the West had turned a blind eye to Assad's crackdown, both Syria and Europe, would be a lot more stable, even if for the wrong reasons.

efb · 02-09-2015 11:09PM

Eugene Norman wrote: »

Demand being up indicates a shortage in Dublin. The refugees need to be distributed.

Except that costs money.

Its Keynsian economics- creating employment lifts the economy.

Why did house building stop? Not because demand ended, but the profit vanished!

efb · 02-09-2015 11:10PM

Deleted User wrote: »

People often point to the Syrian war and place responsibility solely at the door of the West.

I think the same guilt and empathy people feel towards the migrants was the same guilt and empathy which prompted Western action in Syria in the first place. Britain and the US provided arms to the Syrian rebels with the hope that they would overthrow the dictator Assad's regime and establish democracy.

OK, it has turned out very very sour but the idea wasn't entirely without a good reason.

I think it goes to show that basing a government's response on "feelings" is very short sighted and wrong. If we in the West had turned a blind eye to Assad's crackdown, both Syria and Europe, would be a lot more stable, even if for the wrong reasons.

Or we do more than overthrow the despot and walk away...

02-09-2015 11:10PM

petrolcan wrote: »

No Irish would ever do that....

I know IRA had supporters back in the day and a few now but that is not based from a religion. Actually UK have caused both the Irish and Muslim terrorist groups, I honestly think UK and USA need to be taking these people in large amounts, considering it was their 'War on Terror' that caused a lot of this.

johnty56 · 02-09-2015 11:11PM

efb wrote: »

Or do we think these things to ease our feelings of guilt?

I feel no guilt, nor should I.

Many of the problems these people have are of their own construction.

Genuine refugees should be glad to get away from the immediate source of danger.

Saying that I do believe Ireland could take several thousand Syrian refugees, but I think they should be vetted before they set foot in Ireland and I believe priority should be given to families.
The navy is out there, they could bring them here. Perhaps a volunteer system for housing them is not a bad idea. Asylum should be until their homeland is safe.

There is more going on here than Syrian refugees, and any move the Irish government make should be taken with extreme caution. This is not something that should be swayed by emotive media reports.

In the time it has taken me to type this, several people will have died in places you will never hear of, of hunger and other 'unfair' causes- what should we do about that?

N365 · 02-09-2015 11:11PM

The UN should organise a reaction force to enter Libya and Syria to set up safe zones immediately . Th immigrants should be allowed into Ireland en masse even temporarily.these poor people are desperate .

the_syco · 02-09-2015 11:12PM

eviltimeban wrote: »

A dead child on a beach isn't something that should happen.

Because the child is white?

petrolcan · 02-09-2015 11:12PM

Deleted User wrote: »

True, but incidents like this kids happens all the time in different areas around the world but it just doesn't get media publicity as much.

Boko Harem *spelled wrong* killed I don't know how many thousand people in Africa a few months ago and a serious amount of kids died. Like I want to help each and every one of these people.

Realistically how do you decide who gets the help and how many we can take?

I don't have an answer to 'how do we decide'

It's the 'I don't care' that I really don't get.

efb · 02-09-2015 11:14PM

johnty56 wrote: »

I feel no guilt, nor should I.

Many of the problems these people have are of their own construction.

Genuine refugees should be glad to get away from the immediate source of danger.

Saying that I do believe Ireland could take several thousand Syrian refugees, but I think they should be vetted before they set foot in Ireland and I believe priority should be given to families.
The navy is out there, they could bring them here. Perhaps a volunteer system for housing them is not a bad idea. Asylum should be until their homeland is safe.

There is more going on here than Syrian refugees, and any move the Irish government make should be taken with extreme caution. This is not something that should be swayed by emotive media reports.

In the time it has taken me to type this, several people will have died in places you will never hear of, of hunger and other 'unfair' causes- what should we do about that?

You feel no guilt looking at that picture of the dead boy? I do. Living in luxury in the west, but we cant take anymore...

What if it affects our broadband speed?

Yurt2 · 02-09-2015 11:14PM

N365 wrote: »

Th immigrants should be allowed into Ireland en masse even temporarily.these poor people are desperate .

Madness, and there will be no temporary about it.

"Haunting Image Of Drowned Boy Sums Up Consequences Of 'The Syrian War'"

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