NCT fail - Front Subframe - excessive rust

CiniO · 01-09-2015 04:35PM #1

Unfortunately this morning my beloved 14 year old Fiat Bravo failed NCT after many years of passing no bother first time.

Front Subframe - excessive rust. Indeed it's well rusted, however it's still in one piece and no loose parts or holes in it.
Tester wasn't too talkative - just said it needs to be replaced or repaired, but he didn't want to relieve what kind of repair would be suitable.

I know it's a fairly cruicial part which in short holds the front suspension.

Wonder now what are my options.

1. Get new one or second hand and fit it - unfortunately I believe it would be very labour intensive so expensive - so hardly worth it on this.
2. Get garage to fix it somehow, but I don't know what could be the procedure.
3. Take a proper wire brush, clear it off rust (without unmounting off the vehicle) and paint it.

Option 3 would definitely be the cheapest one, but I wonder if NCT will accept it during retest.

rex-x · 01-09-2015 04:47PM

Remove and replace, its a common fail and that's the only fix. Time to cough up sadly.

slimjimmc · 01-09-2015 04:55PM

Option 3 should be ok but if the rust is somewhere unreachable then you'll have to take it off. You mentioned there are no holes so you probably have "Advanced rust" which hasn't yet progressed to "Extensive rust" as per the NCT manual. Wire brush, treat remaining rust with a rust converter, prime and repaint. You just need to make sure the metal is sound with no flaking/bubbling rust.

01-09-2015 08:13PM

Option 3 should be fine. Bring it to a mechanic or someone with a ramp, and get right in there with the brush and spraypaint. If it works for rusted brake lines, it should work for other such rust?

CiniO wrote: »

my beloved 14 year old Fiat Bravo

Why did I always think you drove a Subaru?

visual · 01-09-2015 08:17PM

Option 3 is the worse option hiding the problem under a layer if paint isn't the answer

what if you where in a accident it would fold up and allow engine be pushed into your lap.

Scrap car or buy new sub frame

obezyana · 01-09-2015 08:48PM

Happened to some one i know a couple of yrs ago the same thing excessive rust. The front subframe was failed but upon inspection by a metal fabricator it was only found to be surface rust which was cleaned off and the subframe repainted, the car subsequently passed the re test. Obviously if the frame is damaged then keep safe and replace it but definitely get it checked out before you go spending big money to replace it.

rex-x · 01-09-2015 08:51PM

I would get an independent mechanics opinion but the posts claiming option 3 are OK worry me

Sh1tbag OToole · 01-09-2015 08:53PM

Without pics its hard to know if it's worth trying to fix really.

CiniO · 01-09-2015 09:48PM

It's actually worse then I thought.
I haven't looked at it for few months, and it really got bad within that time.
Looks like there actually is a hole in the subframe, so I hardly can see now how could this be repaired.
Looks like exchange for new one is the only way...

CiniO · 01-09-2015 09:50PM

It's a pity, as beside that, there's hardly any rust on that car

obezyana · 01-09-2015 09:51PM

It looks a bit rough alright. Whats with the red and pink marks on the last photo in the first set of pics?

CiniO · 01-09-2015 09:53PM

obezyana wrote: »

It looks a bit rough alright. Whats with the red and pink marks on the last photo in the first set of pics?

I assume NCT guy marked it to show that there is rust...
(like it was hard to find it

)

greasepalm · 01-09-2015 09:55PM

that looks a worry ,dont think its repairable and would the rusted bolts shear off in the process of changing it?
one has to think safety first for you and others.

obezyana · 01-09-2015 09:55PM

CiniO wrote: »

I assume NCT guy marked it to show that there is rust...
(like it was hard to find it )

Or someone tried to re paint it before with pink and red the only colours to hand

CiniO · 01-09-2015 09:58PM

obezyana wrote: »

Or someone tried to re paint it before with pink and red the only colours to hand

No one tried to repaint it. This car hasn't seen a machanic for years.
I repainted it grey about 5 maybe 6 years ago, as is was getting rusty colour.
Seemed fine until now.

obezyana · 01-09-2015 10:01PM

CiniO wrote: »

No one tried to repaint it. This car hasn't seen a machanic for years.
I repainted it grey about 5 maybe 6 years ago, as is was getting rusty colour.
Seemed fine until now.

The rusty, red and pink give it character......:D

Sh1tbag OToole · 01-09-2015 10:13PM

CiniO wrote: »

No one tried to repaint it. This car hasn't seen a machanic for years.
I repainted it grey about 5 maybe 6 years ago, as is was getting rusty colour.
Seemed fine until now.

Ould fecking subframes do be rusting from the inside out and the rust is in an awkward spot that would make welding in a new section quite awkward. Twill probably have to come out anyway so you should probably look for a new one. If you get one second hand sand it and lash on a layer of hammerite

greasepalm · 01-09-2015 10:16PM

i thought it was one fox less crossing the road=roadkill.

joujoujou · 01-09-2015 10:32PM

Replace it. Treat bolts/nuts with a lot of wd40/the likes and heat them up very well + cool down prior to removal attempt to prevent from being sheared off.

Superwofy · 01-09-2015 10:58PM

This is a real bummer

.

I dread to think of what it'll be like when I see the same on my car. Only it won't be a replaceable subframe but rather structural parts of the chassis.

I know how you feel op.

JohnBoy26 · 01-09-2015 11:15PM

The next one you get pump it with cavity wax and give the outside a coat of zinc paint. It should last years then.

Bigus · 01-09-2015 11:21PM

Buy a whole Brava on done deal for peanuts

galwaytt · 01-09-2015 11:28PM

If the car is otherwise clean, it's worth fixing. You never know - you might get a NOS subframe very cheap.

jimgoose · 01-09-2015 11:49PM

I had similar a couple of years back with the rear subframe assembly on a 16-year old Jag. Replaced it with a good 'un from a UK breaker for €800. Have at it!

166man · 02-09-2015 12:57AM

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Option 3 should be fine. Bring it to a mechanic or someone with a ramp, and get right in there with the brush and spraypaint. If it works for rusted brake lines, it should work for other such rust?

Are you serious?

biko · 02-09-2015 01:03AM

166man wrote: »

Are you serious?

Did you have a suggestion, or do you prefer rhetorical questions?

OP, no way that is salvageable. Start looking for a new part/car.

H3llR4iser · 02-09-2015 02:03AM

If it's the same issue as some more recent cars have been showing, it might be just surface rust. The problem is that it definitely needs to be taken off the car for inspection, and that is more or less half of the cost.

A couple of years ago I got a like-new front subframe for the 159 (different issue - previous owner had somehow put a dent in it) for about 200€ including delivery - from a breaker near Dublin, he specializes in Alfa/Fiat. Had it fitted for about 150 Euro, so a very reasonable 350€ total expense.

Your best bet would be to look on PartFinder, that's where I found it. Alternatively, I'd have a look on eBay.it, many of the sellers that have large stock would deliver internationally. If the car is in otherwise good condition, it'd make very little sense to go on the second-hand market for a replacement...unless you want to change.

Tazio · 02-09-2015 08:08AM

^^^ Funny when I read the title of this thread I thought 159!

I've had to replaced two sub frames on two 6 year old 159's in the family. P1ss poor quality metal & paint. I bought two secondhand ones from a guy in Kildare and had then sand blasted, sprayed in "Galvafroid".. and then sprayed silver again for the hell of it.

http://www.fosroc.com/product/show/galvafroid

New sub frames were €1000 from FIAT; but it was pointless imo because stock units will rot due to poor paint/protection.

2nd hand 'good' ones were 100 each. 100 for sandblasting, and 100 in materials for paint etc.

I had the frames replaced by an indy with a ramp etc.. it was a two man job. But since they were replaced as part of a full suspension overhaul the cost was semi-masked so to speak.. again I did this as I wanted to keep the cars.. it might have not made financial sense... but...

After looking at the photos of the car above she looks like a keeper imo... (slightly biased when it comes to Italians!) so I'm guessing for similar costs you could get a 2nd hand subframe ready.. of course the pain of removing the old bolts etc is an other story...

I can't find photos of the original rot on my 159 frame... but did find some on the new fixed up one....

Second hand frame:

Sand blasted:

Prepped with GLAVAFROID

SPRAYED silver for bling....

02-09-2015 09:58AM

CiniO wrote: »

............

1. Get new one or second hand and fit it - unfortunately I believe it would be very labour intensive so expensive - so hardly worth it on this.............

On a well minded car that you know it is worth it imo, €2000 can buy you a great car or a good deal of trouble, you'd sort this subframe issue for under €1000.

As you seem to do most of your other work yourself it is easy to tolerate a once off investment like that, there's years left in your Bravo

02-09-2015 11:20AM

Looking at the picture it does look a bit worse than I'd have assumed.

If it were me, I'd be off to Donedeal. Buy something for 1-2 grand and with a fresh NCT and you should be okay for another year or or two and then hopefully go from there?

I presume the car itself isn't really worth much, so it'd be hard to justify spending that kinda money on a repair if it was me.

02-09-2015 11:42AM

If that's all that is wrong it a no brainer to bolt out the old one and replace with a good used one from a scrappie. In lots of cars the frame is welded on but not in this car so it's an easy job. Lots of wd40 from above the bolts and then don't force the bolts if they feel tight but nice back and forth action until they are loose.

You can even practice with the scrap car first.

NCT fail - Front Subframe - excessive rust

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