Work telling me I need to be on call 24/7, cannot call in sick or swap days

sheepbeep · 31-08-2015 6:57pm #1

Hi there, I'm having some issues in work and was wondering if anybody who is more experienced can shed some light on this for me.

Basically, my employer has hired a new manager to take charge of my workplace (which ran fine with our previous manager). This new manager has decided to enforce a lot of new things. One thing is that they are pretty much bullying everyone in to being on call. Beforehand if someone called in sick you would just call up someone and you could always find someone to come in, it worked fine and there were never problems. Now you have to dedicate 1-2 of your days off to sitting around at home incase someone calls in sick... which is completely unpaid, absolutely no monetary compensation at all for doing this. They literally hound all the staff and follow them around asking them to give the days they can dedicate. If the staff say no they reply they HAVE to do it (but at the same time it's "voluntary" apparently).
We are also told, direct quote, we are not allowed to be sick. We absolutely cannot swap days. We are not allowed any time off because work should be our main priority and we have to be more responsible. We are also told that if we don't finish absolutely everything we are not allowed to take a break (there have been days where I've been on a 12 hour shift without a single break) and this is completely acceptable and normal according to them.
We are severely understaffed and our staff are exhausted, I've noticed since all these new rules have come in to place that people are calling in sick more regularly than before but management refuses to believe it is because people are starting to get run down.
They have said before that if you're sick you need to have a doctor's note which is fair enough but even if you have one they still scream and shout at you because "you're not allowed to be sick", this has been said to several people.
Not to mention the manager will come in on our breaks (that we sometimes get) and start talking about work or complaining about how we're so irresponsible and terrible at our jobs with a smile on their face saying it in a sneaky and casually insulting way. We can't even enjoy our breaks in peace. Everyone is incredibly depressed, too.
On one of my days off someone couldn't come in and my phone died in the night time, when I awoke I had a ton of missed calls with people screaming at me down the phone because I didn't answer... on my day off at 6:45am? My landlady told me later the manager actually came to my house and tried to get her to wake me up. Another girl had to have minor surgery and come in later that day as she wasn't allowed time off.
Despite the fact I've worked there for years and have always come in every single time they've asked me to, worked through emergencies when no one else could, re-arranged all of my plans just to come in because they asked me to and never ask for time off, I asked for 1 day off a few weeks ago for something I couldn't re-arrange. They told me it was ok but later screamed and shouted at me saying I shouldn't have even asked in the first place. After everything I've done for them when they needed help they actually do not appreciate it at all and don't care, I feel so under appreciated and I can't take this anymore.

Surely, none of this can be legal? We don't get sick pay and the pay is not good so trust me, nobody is just skiving off, we need the money. The turnover since this has started is incredibly high, everyone wants to leave but management is taking no responsibility and refuses to believe it is any of their doing... this stuff isn't even half of it, to be honest. There are so many problems.

I don't know what to do. I want to leave but this can't continue.

strandroad · 31-08-2015 7:15pm

Where is this job, in Ireland? They are breaking so many rules that I find it hard to believe anyone is still there.

sheepbeep · 31-08-2015 7:19pm

mhge wrote: »

Where is this job, in Ireland? They are breaking so many rules that I find it hard to believe anyone is still there.

Can you specify what it is exactly/what I can say? Anytime it's brought up they go ballistic and tell everyone that this is normal/everyone does this and when people argue it they go crazy and scream and shout. I'd like to know exactly what to retort.

People are staying out of loyalty to the employer because some people have been there for decades and get on with them very well. The turnover as I've said is crazy, I'd say since last year 15+ people have left which never happened before.

endacl · 31-08-2015 7:21pm

Anyway, OP. What is being asked is unreasonable by any measure, and happens when a manager believes that you should care about your work as much as they care about their job.

I'd check for a consensus with my colleagues, and have a conversation with him about the situation. If that doesn't work, I'd take it up the chain of command.

sheepbeep · 31-08-2015 7:23pm

endacl wrote: »

Anyway, OP. What is being asked is unreasonable by any measure, and happens when a manager believes that you should care about your work as much as they care about their job.

I'd check for a consensus with my colleagues, and have a conversation with him about the situation. If that doesn't work, I'd take it up the chain of command.

We've actually tried that but they pretty much told us "tough ****, deal with it". Is there any outside forces that can get involved? I don't think anything will change otherwise.

As for that other poster... I literally can't see their posts lmao so they can comment as much as they want

Dublingirl88 · 31-08-2015 7:25pm

sheepbeep wrote: »

This is my first job which is why I was asking here, I have no other real experience so I don't know what is illegal/legal.

It can't be legal and they are clearly taking advantage of your good nature and hard work ethic, there are normally free legal advice centres (around dublin anyway) go there and get proper legal advice, also try note keeping exactly what is being said and done on what days etc to build your case. Keep records of everything, so if you do quit you can prove to social welfare you were driven from the job and at least you can sign on straight away rather than being stuck in an awful job with awful people for managers while looking for a better job.

You are entitled to certain minimum breaks and minimum rest days. As for paid sick days this is purely at the company discretion. As for knocking at your door at 6.45am, that is insane and if I was you i'd be on jobs.ie every day, there are more jobs out there now!

Best of luck.

endacl · 31-08-2015 7:26pm

sheepbeep wrote: »

We've actually tried that but they pretty much told us "tough ****, deal with it". Is there any outside forces that can get involved? I don't think anything will change otherwise.

As for that other poster... I literally can't see their posts lmao so they can comment as much as they want

Agree on a course of action with your workmates, for a start. Concerted passive aggression may do the trick!

sheepbeep · 31-08-2015 7:29pm

Dublingirl88 wrote: »

It can't be legal and they are clearly taking advantage of your good nature and hard work ethic, there are normally free legal advice centres (around dublin anyway) go there and get proper legal advice, also try note keeping exactly what is being said and done on what days etc to build your case. Keep records of everything, so if you do quit you can prove to social welfare you were driven from the job and at least you can sign on straight away rather than being stuck in an awful job with awful people for managers while looking for a better job.

You are entitled to certain minimum breaks and minimum rest days. As for paid sick days this is purely at the company discretion. As for knocking at your door at 6.45am, that is insane and if I was you i'd be on jobs.ie every day, there are more jobs out there now!

Best of luck.

Thanks for the response. I actually didn't know that about social welfare and you can give reason for being driven away. That is a good idea and I am definitely considering that.

According to said manager they can make us work 7 days a week if they want. When someone challenged them on this (as anyone with common sense knows this isn't legal) they went crazy at them. It's impossible to point out anything with them as they have a trigger temper and are extremely argumentative about these things.
I know about sick days, I don't mind. But they pretty much say if you take sick days you're just skiving off, which isn't true. We need the money.
Yeah definitely. But I still have some loyalty to the place and I know this stuff needs to stop, it's really awful to see it go down this road.

strandroad · 31-08-2015 7:30pm

sheepbeep wrote: »

Can you specify what it is exactly/what I can say? Anytime it's brought up they go ballistic and tell everyone that this is normal/everyone does this and when people argue it they go crazy and scream and shout. I'd like to know exactly what to retort.

People are staying out of loyalty to the employer because some people have been there for decades and get on with them very well. The turnover as I've said is crazy, I'd say since last year 15+ people have left which never happened before.

Contact NERA representative and give them your story for a laundry list of their sins:

http://www.citizensinformation.ie/en/employment/enforcement_and_redress/national_employment_rights_authority.html

sheepbeep · 31-08-2015 7:31pm

endacl wrote: »

Agree on a course of action with your workmates, for a start. Concerted passive aggression may do the trick!

Sorry if this sounds dumb but I have absolutely no idea where to start. Should we go report this to an outside force together? As I said before, we already tried talking to the manager/employer and it didn't do anything except get us yelled at.

sheepbeep · 31-08-2015 7:32pm

mhge wrote: »

Contact NERA representative and give them your story for a laundry list of their sins:

Thanks for the link!! I'm looking in to this right now.

Dublingirl88 · 31-08-2015 7:41pm

sheepbeep wrote: »

Thanks for the response. I actually didn't know that about social welfare and you can give reason for being driven away. That is a good idea and I am definitely considering that.

http://www.citizensinformation.ie/en/social_welfare/social_welfare_payments/unemployed_people/signing_on.html

"If you leave work voluntarily or as a result of misconduct, you cannot get a jobseeker’s payment for 9 weeks. However, if you have ‘good cause’ to leave voluntarily, for example, any changes in working conditions such as a reduction in pay, harassment or abuse from your employer, you may get your payment. The Deciding Officer in your social welfare local office or Intreo centre will decide whether you had good cause to leave voluntarily."

Do contact Nera too and get all your information, and I understand being loyal to a company, I myself was with my first job over 5 years for the same company and leaving is hard but when a company changes for the worst and you are effectively told " the company comes first" as I was, it is best to move on to better things.

Annasopra · 31-08-2015 7:42pm

Thats all ridiculous.

Certainly they would be in breach of the Working Time Act forcing you to work without breaks.

strandroad · 31-08-2015 7:45pm

sheepbeep wrote: »

Thanks for the link!! I'm looking in to this right now.

Best of luck. You could just jump ship but it's commendable that you're thinking about others too.

sheepbeep · 31-08-2015 7:52pm

Dublingirl88 wrote: »

"If you leave work voluntarily or as a result of misconduct, you cannot get a jobseeker’s payment for 9 weeks. However, if you have ‘good cause’ to leave voluntarily, for example, any changes in working conditions such as a reduction in pay, harassment or abuse from your employer, you may get your payment. The Deciding Officer in your social welfare local office or Intreo centre will decide whether you had good cause to leave voluntarily."

Do contact Nera too and get all your information, and I understand being loyal to a company, I myself was with my first job over 5 years for the same company and leaving is hard but when a company changes for the worst and you are effectively told " the company comes first" as I was, it is best to move on to better things.

Thanks for the advice. You're right, there is no point continuing when they don't care anymore.

Joeytheparrot wrote: »

Thats all ridiculous.

Certainly they would be in breach of the Working Time Act forcing you to work without breaks.

Of course they are haha. We all know this. But they are so aggressive towards you it's not even worth they energy to debate it, we've tried many times.

mhge wrote: »

Best of luck. You could just jump ship but it's commendable that you're thinking about others too.

Thanks so much! Well lets just say that work involves caring for vulnerable people so I feel a lot of responsibility leaving the place the way it's in and not even trying to do anything.

Stheno · 31-08-2015 8:32pm

sheepbeep wrote: »

Thanks for the advice. You're right, there is no point continuing when they don't care anymore.

Of course they are haha. We all know this. But they are so aggressive towards you it's not even worth they energy to debate it, we've tried many times.

Thanks so much! Well lets just say that work involves caring for vulnerable people so I feel a lot of responsibility leaving the place the way it's in and not even trying to do anything.

Are you working as a carer/homehelp by any chance?

jonny_b · 01-09-2015 6:39am

Ring the department of enterprise trade and employment. You can have this place shut down for what their doing

mada82 · 01-09-2015 7:21am

OP, nobody has the right to roar and shout at anyone.

Bullies generally only understand one language and you should see if a family member would be willing to help you in that regard.

Sounds like a really ****ty place to work. Don't underestimate how an envoirment like that could effect your mental health.

Paulzx · 01-09-2015 8:19am

You said it was a decent place to work before the new manager came in. So, in effect the employer themselves was ok to work for, it's the new manager implementing their own new ( illegal) regime is the problem.

Can you not approach the employer/owner directly. You seem to be long tie employee with the organisation. When it's pointed out to the owner that his manager is breaking employment laws all over the place and he will be liable for subsequent claims he might move quickly to do something about.

The manager sounds like a mindless bully. It's very easy to stand up to people like this when you have your research done and the law/right on your side. You need to arm yourself with the correct information before you get into this debate. When you do you are in a very strong position

Tayto2000 · 01-09-2015 8:56am

This sounds ludicrous and very much like straight up bullying. Since when is it the sick person's role to arrange cover for themselves? Definitely seek proper advice on this and keep a diary of events.

I've come across this "on call " ****e elsewhere as well. Person I know working in a physically demanding job is doing six days a week (Would be seven but she managed to get that concession at least) and is made be "on-call" for days off. Essentially expected to remain at home beside the phone and come into work if called (unpaid of course). Her days off consist of staying within a few miles of work at all times in case she gets a call. Staff are essentially not allowed to have personal lives.

Penny Tration · 01-09-2015 9:04am

First things first - get a notepad. Write down every single incident that happens, every refused lunch break, every act of aggression, every time you're called on your days off, with times and dates. Fill this out religiously, because if this leads to a case, you need to be able to back things up with times and dates. In situations where you cant get out a notepad, text yourself what happened. The text will contain the time and date and incident, for you to write down after work.

Next, gather your colleagues. Get a plan in place, a plan to approach someone above your management, even if this means going directly to the owner. Lay out your grievances, and follow the grievance procedure in your handbook.

If this fails, go to www.workplacerelations.ie. Report it all. It would do no ham to discuss it with them immediately, not just after approaching the owner.

And as a matter of importance, you and your colleagues should find a union to join asap.

AlanG · 01-09-2015 9:28am

You should ring a union that covers your area of work and see what they have to say.

agentblue · 01-09-2015 9:30am

Penny Tration wrote: »

.....

And as a matter of importance, you and your colleagues should find a union to join asap.

That's what I have been thinking while reading this post. I know 'Union' is almost a bad word in Ireland these days but if ever there was an example of the benefits of trade unionism this is it.
This situation would not exist in a unionised workplace. If it developed it would be tackled.
Having said that, if you don't have a lot of employees (potential members) in your workplace you may find it difficult to get a union to engage with your employer as a matter of urgency.

mahoganygas · 01-09-2015 9:39am

OP, have you had any clues that the business could be on the verge of closing down?
Have the sales figures dropped or has there been any other big shocks to the business?

The manager could have been brought in to agitate the staff, encouraging them to leave. You mentioned a lot of turnover. Are they replacing these staff members?

I suspect the owner wants his old staff to leave voluntarily (coerced) instead of paying redundancies.

This is one of the few cases when a union is needed.

Work telling me I need to be on call 24/7, cannot call in sick or swap days

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