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Women should dress modestly or expect to ‘entice a rapist’ – claims Chrissie Hynde

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Comments

  • #32
    meeeeh
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11,624 ✭✭✭✭meeeeh


    DoYouEvenLift wrote: »
    This is the society we live in. It is absolute naivety and delusion to think that simply requesting people to not commit crimes will prevent crimes being commited. Criminals are going to commit crimes, they have done in the past, they do today and they will do in the future.

    This is very wrong. Education is needed (not just for men). A lot of college rapes etc are when (mostly) women we too drunk/stoned to give consent. It could be some perfectly nice guy that gets a bit drunk and looses the run of himself.

    Rapists are often not your standard shady criminal. It could be law abiding farmer having sex with his underage nice (an example).


  • #33
    One eyed Jack
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 24,524 ✭✭✭✭One eyed Jack


    meeeeh wrote: »
    This is very wrong. Education is needed (not just for men). A lot of college rapes etc are when (mostly) women we too drunk/stoned to give consent. It could be some perfectly nice guy that gets a bit drunk and looses the run of himself.


    If someone is in college and they don't understand that at that age what rape is, then there's no amount of "education" is going to have any effect upon their attitude.


  • #34
    Old Jakey
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 436 ✭✭Old Jakey


    meeeeh wrote: »
    This is very wrong. Education is needed (not just for men). A lot of college rapes etc are when (mostly) women we too drunk/stoned to give consent. It could be some perfectly nice guy that gets a bit drunk and looses the run of himself.

    The whole 'I was too drunk to consent' is a load of crap. I've gotten drunk and had sex that I wouldn't have had if was sober. Was I raped? Hell no. I was drunk and irresponsible.


  • #35
    NachoBusiness
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,389 ✭✭✭NachoBusiness


    Does anyone have her book?
    Be interested to know what actually happened her.
    Might buy the book during the week.

    Hey, wait a minute!


  • #36
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 26,052 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    Old Jakey wrote: »
    The whole 'I was too drunk to consent' is a load of crap. I've gotten drunk and had sex that I wouldn't have had if was sober. Was I raped? Hell no. I was drunk and irresponsible.

    So girls who are unconscious aren't raped if a guy has sex with them?

    Sure thing.


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  • #37
    DoYouEvenLift
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 3,188 ✭✭✭DoYouEvenLift


    meeeeh wrote: »
    This is very wrong. Education is needed (not just for men). A lot of college rapes etc are when (mostly) women we too drunk/stoned to give consent. It could be some perfectly nice guy that gets a bit drunk and looses the run of himself.

    Rapists are often not your standard shady criminal. It could be law abiding farmer having sex with his underage nice (an example).


    "Don't drink until you black out" is more common sense...common sense cannot be taught.


  • #38
    Old Jakey
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 436 ✭✭Old Jakey


    Candie wrote: »
    So girls who are unconscious aren't raped if a guy has sex with them?

    Sure thing.

    Yeah is they're unconscious its rape of course. But if they're just drunk and horny, then no, its not rape.


  • #39
    osarusan
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 16,816 ✭✭✭✭osarusan


    Old Jakey wrote: »
    Yeah is they're unconscious its rape of course.
    So, there is a point when a person is too drunk to consent?

    It is not, then, a "load of crap" as you said just a short while ago?


  • #40
    lanos
    Closed Accounts Posts: 600 ✭✭✭lanos


    wakka12 wrote: »
    People like her need to realise that rapists don't choose their victims because they think the girl looks sexy and they want to have sex with them. Its about power and domination not sexual attraction, they don't care if its a hot skinny blonde in a tight revealing dress or a fat sack of potatoes dressed in a bin bag, they'll rape whatever they think they can without getting caught.

    oh you read that somewhere did you ?


  • #41
    nokia69
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,050 ✭✭✭nokia69


    lanos wrote: »
    oh you read that somewhere did you ?

    its the standard feminist ideology


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  • #42
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 26,052 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    Old Jakey wrote: »
    Yeah is they're unconscious its rape of course. But if they're just drunk and horny, then no, its not rape.

    Of course that's not rape, but then nobody is saying it is.

    It's rape when one person is incapable of giving consent, which can happen if they've drunk enough to either be unconscious or incoherent. So your assertion that:
    The whole 'I was too drunk to consent' is a load of crap.

    Is untrue.


  • #43
    Old Jakey
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 436 ✭✭Old Jakey


    osarusan wrote: »
    So, there is a point when a person is too drunk to consent?

    It is not, then, a "load of crap" as you said just a short while ago?

    The problem is women can now claim they were raped because they feel bad for having drunken sex. Look at American colleges and the anti-male rape laws. Men are now guilty until proven innocent. Look at the UVA rape hoax, 'mattress girl', the '1 in 4' myth. Men are constantly demonised these days. And where America leads, we follow.

    Instead of 'teaching men not to rape' we should teach men and women personal responsibility and to respect drink and drugs.


  • #44
    One eyed Jack
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 24,524 ✭✭✭✭One eyed Jack


    nokia69 wrote: »
    its the standard feminist ideology


    Ehh, have you read the opening post? Chrissy Hynde, who identifies as feminist, claims that women are "asking for it" in the way they dress, and that pop singers who identify as feminist yet "dress provocatively", are prostitutes.

    Then there are women who identify as feminist who claim this "people have the right to their own sexual narrative" nonsense.

    Point being - there's no such thing as "standard" among feminist ideology when it comes to these types of issues any more. They're completely splintered and lacking any cohesive thought whatsoever.


  • #45
    osarusan
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 16,816 ✭✭✭✭osarusan


    Old Jakey wrote: »
    The problem is women can now claim they were raped because they feel bad for having drunken sex. Look at American colleges and the anti-male rape laws. Men are now guilty until proven innocent. Look at the UVA rape hoax, 'mattress girl', the '1 in 4' myth. Men are constantly demonised these days. And where America leads, we follow.

    Instead of 'teaching men not to rape' we should teach men and women personal responsibility and to respect drink and drugs.

    You didn't answer my question - none of the above has anything to do with what I said.

    Do you agree that your 'too drunk to consent is a load of crap' comment is in fact a load of crap itself?


  • #46
    nokia69
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,050 ✭✭✭nokia69


    One eyed Jack wrote: »
    Ehh, have you read the opening post? Chrissy Hynde, who identifies as feminist, claims that women are "asking for it" in the way they dress, and that pop singers who identify as feminist yet "dress provocatively", are prostitutes.

    Then there are women who identify as feminist who claim this "people have the right to their own sexual narrative" nonsense.

    Point being - there's no such thing as "standard" among feminist ideology when it comes to these types of issues any more. They're completely splintered and lacking any cohesive thought whatsoever.

    ah now jackie come on, you know well that its standard feminist ideology to claim that rape is all about power, just because 1% don't toe the party like does not mean I can't claim its not standard feminist thought

    another example would be the pay gap myth, you can find the odd feminist who admits that its BS, but the standard feminist claim is that women are payed less for the same work


  • #47
    meeeeh
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11,624 ✭✭✭✭meeeeh


    It seems feminism has became some sort of a bogey used every time someone tries to suggest things could be better or different. It's not about feminism but about how not to hurt people. And pretending it just happens in the sgades and among scum is naive.


  • #48
    Capt'n Midnight
    Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 94,785 Mod ✭✭✭✭Capt'n Midnight


    Her comments came in an interview with The Sunday Times, which published extracts from her autobiography entitled “Reckless”.
    Book publicity taken straight from the Ryanair school of PR. Cha-ching.


    Does she really believe this given that she's a pretender ?


  • #49
    Massimo Cassagrande
    Closed Accounts Posts: 626 ✭✭✭Massimo Cassagrande


    I read this in the Times magazine today and went "lordy, the tools will have a field day with that..and she'll get shedloads of publicity.."

    Wasn't too far wrong.


  • #50
    josephryan1989
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 669 ✭✭✭josephryan1989


    Rapists don't care how dressed women are. They want to undress them and rape them. If a woman was wearing a burka or a bikini makes no difference because she has a vagina and getting at that vagina is what the rapist is interested in.


  • #51
    Jon Stark
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,304 ✭✭✭Jon Stark


    I'm not sure about these "nobody" comments, as Chrissy is fairly well known. I mean I'm not of her generation or even interested in her music but I know who she is.

    That's the disappointing thing about this, her opinion will travel far.


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  • #52
    mzungu
    Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 6,310 Mod ✭✭✭✭mzungu


    Yet another celeb with very little going on between the ears takes it upon themselves to dish out dangerously unsound advice on serious matters. These people and their views should not be given publicity. She should stick to the singing.


  • #53
    Old Jakey
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 436 ✭✭Old Jakey


    osarusan wrote: »
    You didn't answer my question - none of the above has anything to do with what I said.

    Do you agree that your 'too drunk to consent is a load of crap' comment is in fact a load of crap itself?

    No.


  • #54
    Wibbs
    Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 60,313 Mod ✭✭✭✭Wibbs


    Hasbeen artist(who tend to be neurotic attention seekers almost as a baseline) seeks more attention in their fading years and is promoting a book/comeback makes daft statement? That's pretty much a given with the type. By all means listen to her at her peak, but only in her chosen field; music. Ignore the rest, then and now.

    Many worry about Artificial Intelligence. I worry far more about Organic Idiocy.



  • #55
    Fox_In_Socks
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,615 ✭✭✭Fox_In_Socks


    Wibbs wrote: »
    Hasbeen artist(who tend to be neurotic attention seekers almost as a baseline) seeks more attention in their fading years and is promoting a book/comeback makes daft statement? That's pretty much a given with the type. By all means listen to her at her peak, but only in her chosen field; music. Ignore the rest, then and now.

    Reminds me of when certain people who are experts/geniuses in a certain field are asked questions about stuff outside of that field and they give mental answers. Same thing.

    As Albert Einstein once said:

    "I'm selfish, impatient, and a little insecure. I make mistakes, I'm out of control, and at times hard to handle. But if you can't handle me at my worst, then you sure as hell don't deserve me at my best."


  • #56
    Xaracatz
    Closed Accounts Posts: 702 ✭✭✭Xaracatz


    Candie wrote: »
    Of course that's not rape, but then nobody is saying it is.

    It's rape when one person is incapable of giving consent, which can happen if they've drunk enough to either be unconscious or incoherent. So your assertion that:

    Is untrue.

    I'm deeply uncomfortable with this. Rape is serious. I don't like that someone can say they were too drunk to consent, when their partner could be equally drunk. String me up, but there's a difference between rape, where a girl and a guy are incredibly drunk, and where a girl (or a guy) is attacked, and sex was forced on them.


  • #57
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 26,052 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    Xaracatz wrote: »
    I'm deeply uncomfortable with this. Rape is serious. I don't like that someone can say they were too drunk to consent, when their partner could be equally drunk. String me up, but there's a difference between rape, where a girl and a guy are incredibly drunk, and where a girl (or a guy) is attacked, and sex was forced on them.

    Yes, rape is serious. If someone has no clue what's happening, never mind wants it, it's rape.

    It's rape to have sex with a patient in a coma, or a person who's been knocked unconscious, or with a person who doesn't understand consent, and it's rape to have sex with an unconscious or insensible drunk person. If you don't want something, and it's done to you anyway regardless, then it's being forced on you. Not all rape has additional acts of violence.

    There is no good reason why a person who is too drunk to consent should not be allowed say they were too drunk to consent.


  • #58
    kylith
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 17,739 ✭✭✭✭kylith


    Candie wrote: »
    Yes, rape is serious. If someone has no clue what's happening, never mind wants it, it's rape.

    It's rape to have sex with a patient in a coma, or a person who's been knocked unconscious, or with a person who doesn't understand consent, and it's rape to have sex with an unconscious or insensible drunk person. If you don't want something, and it's done to you anyway regardless, then it's being forced on you.

    There is no good reason why a person who is too drunk to consent should not be allowed say they were too drunk to consent.

    Yes, absolutely; if someone is in such a state that they are unable to consent, or even to know what's happening, then it is without a doubt rape.

    However, if I'm sloshed and he's sloshed, and we have sex and I am, as far as he can tell, enthusiastic and he is, as far as I can tell, enthusiastic then it is unfair to say the next morning that he has raped me simply because I wouldn't have done it if I were sober and because he has a penis. And I've had that happen; waking up the morning after a party and rolling over and seeing some guy and thinking 'Oh Christ, I wish I hadn't done that', but it would never have crossed my mind to call it rape, because it wasn't; it was a stupid drunken mistake.


  • #59
    Penny Tration
    Closed Accounts Posts: 12,687 ✭✭✭✭Penny Tration


    kylith wrote: »
    Yes, absolutely; if someone is in such a state that they are unable to consent, or even to know what's happening, then it is without a doubt rape.

    However, if I'm sloshed and he's sloshed, and we have sex and I am, as far as he can tell, enthusiastic and he is, as far as I can tell, enthusiastic then it is unfair to say the next morning that he has raped me simply because I wouldn't have done it if I were sober and because he has a penis. And I've had that happen; waking up the morning after a party and rolling over and seeing some guy and thinking 'Oh Christ, I wish I hadn't done that', but it would never have crossed my mind to call it rape, because it wasn't; it was a stupid drunken mistake.

    Absolutely, because that's NOT rape. It's two people making silly choices and consenting while drunk.

    The rape aspect comes into play when the person is absolutely hammered. The falling on the floor, puking on oneself, blacking out and having no memory the next day kind of hammered.

    Unfortunately, a few unsavoury people have cried rape after drunk sex, which muddies the waters somewhat.


  • #60
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 26,052 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    kylith wrote: »
    Yes, absolutely; if someone is in such a state that they are unable to consent, or even to know what's happening, then it is without a doubt rape.

    However, if I'm sloshed and he's sloshed, and we have sex and I am, as far as he can tell, enthusiastic and he is, as far as I can tell, enthusiastic then it is unfair to say the next morning that he has raped me simply because I wouldn't have done it if I were sober and because he has a penis. And I've had that happen; waking up the morning after a party and rolling over and seeing some guy and thinking 'Oh Christ, I wish I hadn't done that', but it would never have crossed my mind to call it rape, because it wasn't; it was a stupid drunken mistake.

    No one is saying that's rape though, only the scenario where one party is completely unconscious or insensible.

    I don't like this assumption that rape has to be 'violent' either, as most rapes don't have additional violence. Obviously some are more brutal than others and have other aspects of injury, but all rape is violent. Just because someone can't resist doesn't mean they haven't been forced.


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  • #61
    buried
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,965 ✭✭✭buried


    It never seeks to amaze me that just because some make of former pop star, celebrity, rock star etc.. decides to blurt out some sort of utter gibberish, attention seeking statement concerning whatever subject, that gibberish statement is relayed and amplified by mainstream news as some sort of source of intellectual validation or some sort of grasp on wider social intelligence, just because some celebrity/entertainer has said it. Why care about what this person has to say about anything? She probably has her own view on why the Chinese stock market is tanking at the moment too, but would anyone here actually take any notice of her view on that subject? Doubt it.

    Bullet The Blue Shirts



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