Women should dress modestly or expect to ‘entice a rapist’ – claims Chrissie Hynde

fro9etb8j5qsl2

From today's Telegraph:

Women who walk around drunk and provocatively dressed should expect to be sexually assaulted, Chrissie Hynde, the lead singer of the Pretenders, has suggested
The former chart topper claimed in a Sunday newspaper interview that scantily clad women were likely to “entice a rapist” and that it is their “fault” if they are attacked.

She discloses in a new memoir how she was abducted and sexually assaulted by a motorcycle gang in Ohio in the early 1970s – but concludes it was “all my doing” because of the way she was dressed and the fact that she was under the influence of drugs.
She also claimed that pop stars who call themselves feminists but use their sex appeal to sell records were effectively just “prostitutes”.

Charities said her remarks highlighted how victims of sexual assault wrongly blame themselves for their ordeals.
Her comments came in an interview with The Sunday Times, which published extracts from her autobiography entitled “Reckless”.
The book details an incident when she was 21 when she was picked up by a motorcycle gang who promised to take her to a party but instead took her to an empty house and sexually assaulted her.

But she said: “If I'm walking around in my underwear and I'm drunk? Who else's fault can it be? – Er, the guy who attacks you?
“Oh, come on! That's just silly.
“If I'm walking around and I'm very modestly dressed and I'm keeping to myself and someone attacks me, then I'd say that's his fault.
“But if I'm being very lairy and putting it about and being provocative, then you are enticing someone who's already unhinged — don't do that.”

She added: “You know, if you don't want to entice a rapist, don't wear high heels so you can't run from him. If you're wearing something that says 'Come and ---- me', you'd better be good on your feet… I don't think I'm saying anything controversial am I?"

She went on to argue that many women who describe themselves as feminists were anything but in practice.
Asked whom she meant, she said: “Women who sell what their product is by using sex – that's prostitution.
“A pop star who's walking around, parading themselves as a porn star and saying they're feminists.
“They're prostitutes.
“I'm not making a value judgment on prostitutes, but just say what you are.”

Link: http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/celebritynews/11833539/Women-should-dress-modesty-or-expect-to-entice-a-rapist-claims-singer-Chrissie-Hynde.html

Her comments are the last in a long line of bullshít from people in the public eye who are more willing to blame the victims of these crimes than the predators who commit them. Pretty unbelievable that she herself was assaulted in her youth and still holds these ridiculous views. It's so irresponsible and ignorant of her to spout crap like this :mad:

Penny Tration

Typical scummy victim blaming.

However, I can't help but think she's painting men in a bad light too. If you go out dressed provocatively, chances are you'll be raped? Very doubtful considering that most victims of rape know their rapist, but it also just says that men are incapable of controlling their sexual urges.

People like her are the reason not enough women report their rape.

darkpagandeath

Fail.

ceadaoin.

Zion Savory Climber wrote: »

From today's Telegraph:



Link: http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/celebritynews/11833539/Women-should-dress-modesty-or-expect-to-entice-a-rapist-claims-singer-Chrissie-Hynde.html

Her comments are the last in a long line of bullshít from people in the public eye who are more willing to blame the victims of these crimes than the predators who commit them. Pretty unbelievable that she herself was assaulted in her youth and still holds these ridiculous views. It's so irresponsible and ignorant of her to spout crap like this :mad:

It's fairly common for victims to blame themselves and she is obviously projecting those feelings onto others. Sounds like she needs counselling to work through these issues and accept that it wasn't her fault that it happened to her. Until then she should shut up and not try to make other victims feel even worse by spouting such crap!

fro9etb8j5qsl2

That was my first thought Ceadaoin, and if this is the case then it's very sad that she has carried this guilt around for so long. But like you said, she should keep her trap shut about it until she has learned to accept and deal with what happened to her.

darkpagandeath

TBH this sounds like something written in saudi arabia

QuinDixie

I doubt her rape story, new memoir, needs some cash, make controversial points about rape and justify them with a personal story that sounds made up. Sounds like a scene from any 1970s Clint Eastwood film.

NachoBusiness

Don't get her wrong.

Mr_Muffin

Ah another nobody making outrageous statements just to get attention.

One eyed Jack

Zion Savory Climber wrote: »

From today's Telegraph:



Link: http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/celebritynews/11833539/Women-should-dress-modesty-or-expect-to-entice-a-rapist-claims-singer-Chrissie-Hynde.html

Her comments are the last in a long line of bullshít from people in the public eye who are more willing to blame the victims of these crimes than the predators who commit them. Pretty unbelievable that she herself was assaulted in her youth and still holds these ridiculous views.It's so irresponsible and ignorant of her to spout crap like this :mad:

Unfortunately it's not all that unbelievable at all that someone who has experienced sexual assault would hold those views. They're no different from generally held perceptions among the wider public really.

It's irresponsible, and of course it's ignorant, but it's the latest in this new thing of "people are entitled to create their own narrative" nonsense - think Lena Dunham and her sister. What they're saying really isn't actually all that controversial. It's the fact that they're saying it at all is what's controversial, given their position in the public eye.

I don't think I'm saying anything controversial am I?

Dumb, attention-seeking rhetorical question, is dumb.

biko

How do I know revealing clothes don't cause rapes?


Women in Afghanistan are still raped.

frostyjacks

I think the point she's making is that sometimes women have to look at their own actions. In her case it was wilfully going away with a biker gang that she knew liked to rape women.

ancapailldorcha

While I don't think it's unreasonable to expect people to take precautions to protect themselves, rape is never the victim's fault. Never. I'm not surprised to see the Telegraph spouting guff like this to be honest. It's just the Daily Mail with bigger words.

Mint Aero

Oh hell no, oh no she di'ant. Wait, wait...who the f*ck is Chrissie Hynde? and why should I care that she exists let alone what she said about something?

Dirty Dingus McGee

Mint Aero wrote: »

Oh hell no, oh no she di'ant. Wait, wait...who the f*ck is Chrissie Hynde? and why should I care that she exists let alone what she said about something?

Lead singer/songwriter from the Pretenders who were a top notch band.

Cold War Kid

I gotta say I think she's right to view it as stupid and irresponsible for anyone to get completely wasted and wander off by themselves at night (did it myself several times when younger and I'm just relieved nothing happened to me, because it could have).

Basically, limit your vulnerability as much as you can - this applies to absolutely any situation.

If you are raped (or assaulted or mugged) though, the attacker is the one to blame - because they have a choice, they don't *have* to attack anyone, just because the opportunity has arisen. They can control themselves.

Using terms like "should expect", "fault", "entice rapists" is just being an ass. If she had said it's stupid and irresponsible, that would be fairer - but that's not attention-grabbing I guess.

Also, when people are young and silly, they do stupid things - it's part of life and learning, it doesn't make them deserve to be attacked.

Nodin

Zion Savory Climber wrote: »

From today's Telegraph:



Link: http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/celebritynews/11833539/Women-should-dress-modesty-or-expect-to-entice-a-rapist-claims-singer-Chrissie-Hynde.html

Her comments are the last in a long line of bullshít from people in the public eye who are more willing to blame the victims of these crimes than the predators who commit them. Pretty unbelievable that she herself was assaulted in her youth and still holds these ridiculous views. It's so irresponsible and ignorant of her to spout crap like this :mad:

This is a woman who once, many years ago, give an interview in which she lamented women taking contraception at great length. She then went on to talk about how many abortions she had. Now, from a purely objective perspective, its usually generally considered better to take small medical precautions, to prevent having more invasive measures taken later on.....but this logic doesn't appear to have dawned on Ms Hynes.

You get some small flavour of it here, from 1994
http://www.independent.co.uk/arts-entertainment/interview--ol-blue-eyes-is-back-after-an-eightyear-gap--the-householder-years--the-pretenders-are-in-the-top-10-again-and-the-critics-good-books-geraldine-bedell-talks-to-chrissie-hynde-while-david-cavanagh-compares-the-new-album-with-the-old-ones-1432961.html

Tl;dr - she's always talked out of her arse, whether because she believed it, was half mad or bombed or was just out for attention.

wakka12

People like her need to realise that rapists don't choose their victims because they think the girl looks sexy and they want to have sex with them. Its about power and domination not sexual attraction, they don't care if its a hot skinny blonde in a tight revealing dress or a fat sack of potatoes dressed in a bin bag, they'll rape whatever they think they can without getting caught.

Old Jakey

Don't fully agree with her, but I respect her for having the guts to say what she believes.

Cold War Kid

wakka12 wrote: »

People like her need to realise that rapists don't choose their victims because they think the girl looks sexy and they want to have sex with them. Its about power and domination not sexual attraction, they don't care if its a hot skinny blonde in a tight revealing dress or a fat sack of potatoes dressed in a bin bag, they'll rape whatever they think they can without getting caught.

I don't think that's entirely true unfortunately. It can be about sex, not always just about power and domination and control. It still doesn't make it the fault of the person who is raped though.

Old Jakey

wakka12 wrote: »

People like her need to realise that rapists don't choose their victims because they think the girl looks sexy and they want to have sex with them. Its about power and domination not sexual attraction, they don't care if its a hot skinny blonde in a tight revealing dress or a fat sack of potatoes dressed in a bin bag, they'll rape whatever they think they can without getting caught.

I believe its the opposite.

Cold War Kid

I'm going to go out on a limb here and speculate that the thing of rape being about power/control/dominance is more of a phenomenon in war-torn countries and societies where woman are less than sh-t.

That's not to say it can't be about sex in such contexts either, or that it can never be about power/control/dominance/woman-hating in peaceful democratic societies.

Old Jakey

Cold War Kid wrote: »

I'm going to go out on a limb here and speculate that the thing of rape being about power/control/dominance is more of a phenomenon in war-torn countries and societies where woman are less than sh-t.

That's not to say it can't be about sex in such contexts either, or that it can never be about power/control/dominance/woman-hating in peaceful democratic societies.

I would agree with that. In the first world countires most women are raped by people they know. I'd say the motives in these cases is lust and desire. Not to say there aren't psychopaths out there who don't get off on the power aspect.

NachoBusiness

Old Jakey wrote: »

I would agree with that. In the first world countires most women are raped by people they know. I'd say the motives in these cases is lust and desire. Not to say there aren't psychopaths out there who don't get off on the power aspect.

Isn't that what they are saying.

Penny Tration

I'd imagine it's a bit of both.

For a lot of rapists, it IS about dominance and control, in that they find that kind of domination sexually arousing. So, yeah, they're getting their rocks off and it's sexual and about lust to them, but that lust comes about from arousal at the idea of raping the victim.

nokia69

wakka12 wrote: »

People like her need to realise that rapists don't choose their victims because they think the girl looks sexy and they want to have sex with them. Its about power and domination not sexual attraction, they don't care if its a hot skinny blonde in a tight revealing dress or a fat sack of potatoes dressed in a bin bag, they'll rape whatever they think they can without getting caught.

people like you need to realise that this is not 100% true

there does tend to be a power and domination element to many rapes but most rapists are in fact sexually attracted to their victims

eviltwin

She's entitled to her opinion, I just wish the media wouldn't jump on these comments and print them. She's a nobody as far as I am concerned, her views carry no more weight than that of the random person on the street but vulnerable people and those close to them don't need to be reading her views in some newspaper.

zeffabelli

nokia69 wrote: »

people like you need to realise that this is not 100% true

there does tend to be a power and domination element to many rapes but most rapists are in fact sexually attracted to their victims

Common denominator is entitlement.

DoYouEvenLift

Firstly, just to clarify, I agree being raped is never the victims fault.


I just want to say, silly schemes where idiots try to 'teach all men not to rape' are as bad as comments like this being made. There is no reasoning with rapists. They are scumbags. Telling them, through means of addressing a collective group of people similar to them just in gender, is absolutely pointless. A rapist is going to attempt to commit the crime regardless. The best we can do is emphasise preventative and defensive measures and in the unfortunate cases where victims are raped, encourage reporting of the crime to the police as soon as possible to aid them in having the most likelihood of catching the criminal.

This is the society we live in. It is absolute naivety and delusion to think that simply requesting people to not commit crimes will prevent crimes being commited. Criminals are going to commit crimes, they have done in the past, they do today and they will do in the future.

meeeeh

eviltwin wrote: »

She's entitled to her opinion, I just wish the media wouldn't jump on these comments and print them. She's a nobody as far as I am concerned, her views carry no more weight than that of the random person on the street but vulnerable people and those close to them don't need to be reading her views in some newspaper.

Yes and I half suspect those comments were made because she has a book to sell. It's just sad that serious and painful people's experiences are used as a marketing tool.

It's a slippy slope when you put the onus on a whole gender to avoid being raped. Then the accusation will inevitably wind up being about what she did wrong to get herself raped or put herself in a rapeable position.

Acquaintance rape is something that needs more discussion, since ambiguity seems to be a factor in some of these. The responsibility is currently on the male partner to hear the word yes, but the female party has no similar responsibility to use the word no. I believe this should change, and girls be more aware of their role in the giving of clear consent. No one should ever be raped because the situation was ambiguous, but I've no doubt it happens.

Other than that, the only way a woman can modify her behaviour to 100% avoid being raped is by living in, and never leaving, a fortress.

meeeeh

DoYouEvenLift wrote: »

This is the society we live in. It is absolute naivety and delusion to think that simply requesting people to not commit crimes will prevent crimes being commited. Criminals are going to commit crimes, they have done in the past, they do today and they will do in the future.

This is very wrong. Education is needed (not just for men). A lot of college rapes etc are when (mostly) women we too drunk/stoned to give consent. It could be some perfectly nice guy that gets a bit drunk and looses the run of himself.

Rapists are often not your standard shady criminal. It could be law abiding farmer having sex with his underage nice (an example).

One eyed Jack

meeeeh wrote: »

This is very wrong. Education is needed (not just for men). A lot of college rapes etc are when (mostly) women we too drunk/stoned to give consent. It could be some perfectly nice guy that gets a bit drunk and looses the run of himself.

If someone is in college and they don't understand that at that age what rape is, then there's no amount of "education" is going to have any effect upon their attitude.

Old Jakey

meeeeh wrote: »

This is very wrong. Education is needed (not just for men). A lot of college rapes etc are when (mostly) women we too drunk/stoned to give consent. It could be some perfectly nice guy that gets a bit drunk and looses the run of himself.

The whole 'I was too drunk to consent' is a load of crap. I've gotten drunk and had sex that I wouldn't have had if was sober. Was I raped? Hell no. I was drunk and irresponsible.

NachoBusiness

Does anyone have her book?
Be interested to know what actually happened her.
Might buy the book during the week.

Hey, wait a minute!

Old Jakey

Old Jakey wrote: »

The whole 'I was too drunk to consent' is a load of crap. I've gotten drunk and had sex that I wouldn't have had if was sober. Was I raped? Hell no. I was drunk and irresponsible.

So girls who are unconscious aren't raped if a guy has sex with them?

Sure thing.

DoYouEvenLift

meeeeh wrote: »

This is very wrong. Education is needed (not just for men). A lot of college rapes etc are when (mostly) women we too drunk/stoned to give consent. It could be some perfectly nice guy that gets a bit drunk and looses the run of himself.

Rapists are often not your standard shady criminal. It could be law abiding farmer having sex with his underage nice (an example).

"Don't drink until you black out" is more common sense...common sense cannot be taught.

Old Jakey

Candie wrote: »

So girls who are unconscious aren't raped if a guy has sex with them?

Sure thing.

Yeah is they're unconscious its rape of course. But if they're just drunk and horny, then no, its not rape.

osarusan

Old Jakey wrote: »

Yeah is they're unconscious its rape of course.

So, there is a point when a person is too drunk to consent?

It is not, then, a "load of crap" as you said just a short while ago?

lanos

wakka12 wrote: »

People like her need to realise that rapists don't choose their victims because they think the girl looks sexy and they want to have sex with them. Its about power and domination not sexual attraction, they don't care if its a hot skinny blonde in a tight revealing dress or a fat sack of potatoes dressed in a bin bag, they'll rape whatever they think they can without getting caught.

oh you read that somewhere did you ?

nokia69

lanos wrote: »

oh you read that somewhere did you ?

its the standard feminist ideology

Old Jakey

Old Jakey wrote: »

Yeah is they're unconscious its rape of course. But if they're just drunk and horny, then no, its not rape.

Of course that's not rape, but then nobody is saying it is.

It's rape when one person is incapable of giving consent, which can happen if they've drunk enough to either be unconscious or incoherent. So your assertion that:

The whole 'I was too drunk to consent' is a load of crap.

Is untrue.

Old Jakey

osarusan wrote: »

So, there is a point when a person is too drunk to consent?

It is not, then, a "load of crap" as you said just a short while ago?

The problem is women can now claim they were raped because they feel bad for having drunken sex. Look at American colleges and the anti-male rape laws. Men are now guilty until proven innocent. Look at the UVA rape hoax, 'mattress girl', the '1 in 4' myth. Men are constantly demonised these days. And where America leads, we follow.

Instead of 'teaching men not to rape' we should teach men and women personal responsibility and to respect drink and drugs.

One eyed Jack

nokia69 wrote: »

its the standard feminist ideology

Ehh, have you read the opening post? Chrissy Hynde, who identifies as feminist, claims that women are "asking for it" in the way they dress, and that pop singers who identify as feminist yet "dress provocatively", are prostitutes.

Then there are women who identify as feminist who claim this "people have the right to their own sexual narrative" nonsense.

Point being - there's no such thing as "standard" among feminist ideology when it comes to these types of issues any more. They're completely splintered and lacking any cohesive thought whatsoever.

osarusan

Old Jakey wrote: »

The problem is women can now claim they were raped because they feel bad for having drunken sex. Look at American colleges and the anti-male rape laws. Men are now guilty until proven innocent. Look at the UVA rape hoax, 'mattress girl', the '1 in 4' myth. Men are constantly demonised these days. And where America leads, we follow.

Instead of 'teaching men not to rape' we should teach men and women personal responsibility and to respect drink and drugs.

You didn't answer my question - none of the above has anything to do with what I said.

Do you agree that your 'too drunk to consent is a load of crap' comment is in fact a load of crap itself?

nokia69

One eyed Jack wrote: »

Ehh, have you read the opening post? Chrissy Hynde, who identifies as feminist, claims that women are "asking for it" in the way they dress, and that pop singers who identify as feminist yet "dress provocatively", are prostitutes.

Then there are women who identify as feminist who claim this "people have the right to their own sexual narrative" nonsense.

Point being - there's no such thing as "standard" among feminist ideology when it comes to these types of issues any more. They're completely splintered and lacking any cohesive thought whatsoever.

ah now jackie come on, you know well that its standard feminist ideology to claim that rape is all about power, just because 1% don't toe the party like does not mean I can't claim its not standard feminist thought

another example would be the pay gap myth, you can find the odd feminist who admits that its BS, but the standard feminist claim is that women are payed less for the same work

meeeeh

It seems feminism has became some sort of a bogey used every time someone tries to suggest things could be better or different. It's not about feminism but about how not to hurt people. And pretending it just happens in the sgades and among scum is naive.

Capt'n Midnight

Her comments came in an interview with The Sunday Times, which published extracts from her autobiography entitled “Reckless”.

Book publicity taken straight from the Ryanair school of PR. Cha-ching.


Does she really believe this given that she's a pretender ?

Massimo Cassagrande

I read this in the Times magazine today and went "lordy, the tools will have a field day with that..and she'll get shedloads of publicity.."

Wasn't too far wrong.

josephryan1989

Rapists don't care how dressed women are. They want to undress them and rape them. If a woman was wearing a burka or a bikini makes no difference because she has a vagina and getting at that vagina is what the rapist is interested in.

Jon Stark

I'm not sure about these "nobody" comments, as Chrissy is fairly well known. I mean I'm not of her generation or even interested in her music but I know who she is.

That's the disappointing thing about this, her opinion will travel far.