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"Life Coaches" - time for regulation?

24

Comments

  • Closed Accounts Posts: 4,981 ✭✭✭KomradeBishop


    I'd add psychoanalysts to this list - they are trained and there are 'semi-official' registers, but they are not like psychologists/psychiatrists - there is zero real evidence, supporting claims of efficacy for their form of treatment, on many issues.


  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Arts Moderators, Entertainment Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators Posts: 16,691 CMod ✭✭✭✭faceman


    I'm a coach. I don't like the expression "Life Coach" as it sounds hippy. I use Personal Coach instead. However most of my work is in the corporate world.

    A coach however is not a counsellor, a therapist, a psychologist or a psychotherapist. If any client came to me and it was obvious that it was one of them above he/she required, that is where they would be referred to.

    Coaches, by way of an over-simplified definition, are there to assist clients achieve their goals. I've been very successful with coaching and am a big advocate for it.


  • Posts: 22,384 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    faceman wrote: »
    I'm a coach.

    The obvious questions...what are your qualifications and do you think you and your colleagues should be regulated to prevent those who cause serious harm from practising?


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 291 ✭✭via4


    Yes I have started to question councillors and life coaches etc. I went to councilling in the past I had one good one but she was fifty euro an hour its so much money. I had an awful one this guy who recommended I moved to the UK to go on the dole over there that I would get a house etc because I had a child. It made no sense to go over there when I was in such a state I was not fit to make such a drastic lifestyle change and my goal was to get a job not to move country to go on the dole.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 81,060 ✭✭✭✭biko


    Why bother with life coaches when a wife/girlfriend will do the same job for nothing.


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 22,609 ✭✭✭✭kneemos


    via4 wrote: »
    Yes I have started to question councillors and life coaches etc. I went to councilling in the past I had one good one but she was fifty euro an hour its so much money. I had an awful one this guy who recommended I moved to the UK to go on the dole over there that I would get a house etc because I had a child. It made no sense to go over there when I was in such a state I was not fit to make such a drastic lifestyle change and my goal was to get a job not to move country to go on the dole.



    That there is one strange suggestion.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 3,507 ✭✭✭Buona Fortuna


    biko wrote: »
    Why bother with life coaches when a wife/girlfriend will do the same job for nothing.

    A friend of mine was going to become a coach, until she found out that they wanted to take her teeth out and put seats in their place :D


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 19,801 ✭✭✭✭suicide_circus


    There have always been charlatans selling snake oil. Life coaches, tarot card readers, homeopaths are just the same....targeting vulnerable people for personal profit. I would be slow to advocate government intervention in any walk of life but the primary responsibility of the state is to protect it's citizens....be that from invading armies, natural disasters, violent criminals or scam artists


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 6,557 ✭✭✭the_monkey


    The obvious questions...what are your qualifications and do you think you and your colleagues should be regulated to prevent those who cause serious harm from practising?

    I think he does it for businesses tho, so I'd imagine public speaking skills, getting the best out of employees training etc ...

    lots of synergizing going on there I'd say... :p


  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Arts Moderators, Entertainment Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators Posts: 16,691 CMod ✭✭✭✭faceman


    The obvious questions...what are your qualifications and do you think you and your colleagues should be regulated to prevent those who cause serious harm from practising?

    I have an internationally recognised Coaching qualification which at the time, could only be awarded by one college in Ireland. I believe 2 other colleges offer it now. You also have to complete so many hours a year to retain the international accreditation.

    I don't have colleagues so I can't comment on their practices. I don't agree that regulation is needed, recognised qualifying bodies already exist. As with any activity of this nature, people should be asking about the credentials of who the are engaging. Some clients ask me but I always explain to all clients in our first meeting my background and credentials anyway. Clients sign an agreement that outlines both mine and their responsibilities as part of the engagement. (Not the agreement sets out the code of practice which I'm bound by etc)

    I've a track record for success with my clients but as I've said previously, I'm there to help a client achieve their goal or goals. I'm not there to help address 'problems' that require medical help or otherwise.

    Its not a hippy session either and I despise the book "The Secret" (which has nothing to do with Coaching.)

    One of the issues I have with Coaching is the misconception about what it is and the stigma of the expression 'life coaching' which gives an image of hippy behaviour.

    Happy to answer any questions about it


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,798 ✭✭✭goose2005


    As much as I dislike Oprah, I have a massive amount of respect for her. She's pulled herself up from having absolutely nothing to becoming one of the most recognisable people in the world today. I've no interest in her show, what she endorses, her network or that nonsense, mind. I feel that it's remarkable, however that she's accomplished so much despite surely have to deal with racism when it was more acceptable and the complete lack of anything like a silver spoon.
    but the same is true of Hitler, or Martin Cahill. There's no glory in going from obscurity to wealth if you do so by harming people and continue to use your wealth to harm people.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 919 ✭✭✭Joe prim


    What about County Councillors, how can they council a whole county? (Unless it's a small one like louth or Carlow) And anyone that goes to a psychologist need their head tested.


  • Posts: 22,384 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    faceman wrote: »
    I have an internationally recognised Coaching qualification which at the time, could only be awarded by one college in Ireland.

    What is it and what was the college?
    faceman wrote: »
    I don't have colleagues so I can't comment on their practices. I don't agree that regulation is needed, recognised qualifying bodies already exist. As with any activity of this nature, people should be asking about the credentials of who the are engaging. Some clients ask me but I always explain to all clients in our first meeting my background and credentials anyway. Clients sign an agreement that outlines both mine and their responsibilities as part of the engagement. (Not the agreement sets out the code of practice which I'm bound by etc)

    Are you insured against any losses that might arise out of the advices you provide or any claim of negligence?


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 2,515 ✭✭✭zeffabelli


    Coaching is not therapy. It uses a lot of psychology, from family systems to organisational psych and Is goal oriented.

    It is not supervised breakdown or a trauma recovery programme.

    People are conflating the two.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,207 ✭✭✭robbiezero


    Oh I hate her so much.

    She now has shows on her own network (no pun intended) and when she goes to celebs homes she always asks them how they cope with media intrusion into wanting to know about their personal relationships and then she goes on to that very think: asks about their personal relationship, as if her nosiness is somehow different to everyone else's nosiness. She will also then usually have a whine about how people are so celebrity obsessed and materialistic these days, as she sits there in her Guicci heels, on yet another A lister's sofa. She has to be one of the biggest hypocrites to ever have walked the Earth.

    Back in the 89, when she was on a level with Jerry Springer, she used to have those nuts on her show that said they were sexually abused by satanists in the woods and seen children being sacrificed. She believed ever word of it. Around that time Letterman came to do his show in Chicago and invited her on (this is where their feud began, despite her repeatedly saying in many many interviews, until quite recently, that she had noooooooo idea how or why it had happened..shows she's a liar if nothing else) and 3 minutes into the interview she starts saying that black people are never seen in restaurants. Dave of course laughed at her, as did the crowd, and she was fuming. It went south from there. Next Dave brings the 'Satantic Dismemberment' guests she had on her show the week before and takes the royal piss. The crowd started encouraging Dave and she goes full wacko :D Here is that interview.

    The woman in that infamous satanic ritual show has since gone on to to be shown as a hoaxer. In fact she later wrote a book claiming to be a Holcaust survivor. Que 25 years later and Letterman appears on her new show (can't find footage of it, she must have it pulled from YT) and she brings that '89 show up and twists the whole thing. Says the crowd were mean to her and infers that it was Dave's fault. Dave, the gentleman that he is and not wanting an argument, apologizes for the show. A toe up her arse is what he should have given her.

    Lets not forget this is the woman that gave us Dr.Phil also.
    She has a new life coach she wheels out these days. Equally as irritating I bet.

    Why is Oprah a hypocrite? Genuine question. I have never seen the show.
    She is in the entertainment business with the aim of making lots of money, and in order to do that she needs to court popularity and adapt a suitable persona for that.


  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Arts Moderators, Entertainment Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators Posts: 16,691 CMod ✭✭✭✭faceman


    What is it and what was the college?

    I'm not on trial so I'm not divulging personal details here however you can google the different colleges yourself. The international accreditation is with the EMCC.
    wrote:
    Are you insured against any losses that might arise out of the advices you provide or any claim of negligence?

    Everyone who provides a service like this is insured. However I'm not sure what you mean by "losses that might arise out of the advices you provide". What kind of loses and what kind of negligence are you talking about? What is it you think a coach does?


  • Posts: 7,344 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    So is it time to regulate this area? And if so, in what way?

    So hard to say really.

    The most pernicious issue for me with things like this - or diet fads - or self improvement charlatans - and many more including even things like religion - is that the woo and nonsense and even outright damaging crap is very often build around a core of very sound and useful advice.

    And as such you get queues of people willing to testify to the efficacy of some programme or other because implementing it genuinely did help them - but likely for NONE of the reasons that their purveyors are claiming.

    Take the "Cayenne Pepper" diet which randomly jumps to mind as we had some users some time back espousing it. They were testifying with some ferociousness to how effective and beneficial it was to them and how magical Cayenne Pepper must be.

    But when you unpack the "diet" you find that to use the Pepper correctly you had to start cooking more of your own food - cutting heavily down on processed or fast foods therefore - and due to some properties of the spice it was advised that you increase your intake of water - and have your meals at more regular times.

    THOSE things are massively good advice and it was likely THAT that had the beneficial effects on the people testifying. Nothing whatsoever to do with Cayenne Pepper in any way. But who is going to make successful websites - public talks - and sell books by simply saying "Have more fresh produce and water - regularise your meal times - and sleep more"? People who want to make a career out of all these "coaching" methods have to be necessity add something to sell the product. No matter how crap or harmful or woo that something is.

    So how does one ban or regulate for this? These "Life Coaches" are likely coming up with some brand of advice and techniques relatively unique to them - in order to differentiate their product on the markets - and appending them around a core of genuinely useful - basic - and even common sense advice that you simply can not sell on it's own.

    So rather than regulate or criminalise such charlatans - one can do little more than invest in initiatives that sell those basics without the crap and woo better than we already do - to promote a society that has no need for their crap in the first place. Not ideal - but at least more workable.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 4,981 ✭✭✭KomradeBishop


    faceman wrote: »
    I have an internationally recognised Coaching qualification which at the time, could only be awarded by one college in Ireland. I believe 2 other colleges offer it now. You also have to complete so many hours a year to retain the international accreditation.

    I don't have colleagues so I can't comment on their practices. I don't agree that regulation is needed, recognised qualifying bodies already exist. As with any activity of this nature, people should be asking about the credentials of who the are engaging. Some clients ask me but I always explain to all clients in our first meeting my background and credentials anyway. Clients sign an agreement that outlines both mine and their responsibilities as part of the engagement. (Not the agreement sets out the code of practice which I'm bound by etc)

    I've a track record for success with my clients but as I've said previously, I'm there to help a client achieve their goal or goals. I'm not there to help address 'problems' that require medical help or otherwise.

    Its not a hippy session either and I despise the book "The Secret" (which has nothing to do with Coaching.)

    One of the issues I have with Coaching is the misconception about what it is and the stigma of the expression 'life coaching' which gives an image of hippy behaviour.

    Happy to answer any questions about it
    What is the qualification, and what is the organization that provides the qualification? EDIT: Nevermind, see it was answered later.

    If there is no regulation, being part of an organization means almost nothing, as there are a lot of organizations out there which are effectively frauds/conmen.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 4,981 ✭✭✭KomradeBishop


    faceman wrote: »
    I'm not on trial so I'm not divulging personal details here however you can google the different colleges yourself. The international accreditation is with the EMCC.



    Everyone who provides a service like this is insured. However I'm not sure what you mean by "losses that might arise out of the advices you provide". What kind of loses and what kind of negligence are you talking about? What is it you think a coach does?
    I've had a quick look at the EMCC, and their qualifications seems rather useless:
    http://www.emccouncil.org/webimages/EMCC/EMCC_Competence_Framework.pdf

    You may be very good at what you do, but that's not really an organization of very high standards.


    What kind of evidence-based research are your methods based on? That organization seems to completely omit any kind of description of empirical-based methods for practicing coaching, that would be required, for getting a qualification.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 9,622 ✭✭✭Ruu


    I'm more concerned about the Full time mad bastards. Where does this accreditation come from?


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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 34,808 ✭✭✭✭smash


    Ruu wrote: »
    I'm more concerned about the Full time mad bastards. Where does this accreditation come from?
    From the same school that brought you "Working at stay at home mum"


  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Arts Moderators, Entertainment Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators Posts: 16,691 CMod ✭✭✭✭faceman


    I've had a quick look at the EMCC, and their qualifications seems rather useless:
    http://www.emccouncil.org/webimages/EMCC/EMCC_Competence_Framework.pdf

    You may be very good at what you do, but that's not really an organization of very high standards.


    What kind of evidence-based research are your methods based on? That organization seems to completely omit any kind of description of empirical-based methods for practicing coaching, that would be required, for getting a qualification.

    Its a professional body. Qualifying diplomas, Hdips and mscs are awarded by colleges etc. I think UCC is the only college in Ireland that offers has a Master's award.

    I cant be good at what I do without appropriate training, continuous learning, regular experience and supervisory feedback sessions.

    Part of the challenge with coaching is the lack of consistency and misconceptions as to what it is. There is a wide array of training options available, but because there is no minimum requirements required to determine when someone is a 'coach', it doesnt take much for someone to earn the title. That's why professional bodies are working to uphold standards with accreditation through meeting minimum requirements for membership.

    Given I focus on executive coaching and work with clients internationally, being regulated in Ireland would offer no more assurance to international clients than accreditation with recognised international bodies today. So if regulation was to be considered, it would need to be at an international level.

    There are plenty of books and papers published on coaching, methods and the effectiveness. The International Coaching Institute has been actively involved in research with their partners in psychology . The book "Evidence Based Coaching Handbook" is a good starting point, and its written by psychologists who are also coaches.


  • Posts: 5,249 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    Should they be regulated?
    No. Caveat Emptor.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,544 ✭✭✭Samaris


    "Will the witness for the prosecution step forward."

    Sounds to me like faceman isn't really the sort of thing that this thread is complaining about. You give advice to people on accomplishing specific goals in a business arena, which isn't really the same thing as pseudo-psychological stuff offered to people about solving all their life problems.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 2,515 ✭✭✭zeffabelli


    Samaris wrote: »
    "Will the witness for the prosecution step forward."

    Sounds to me like faceman isn't really the sort of thing that this thread is complaining about. You give advice to people on accomplishing specific goals in a business arena, which isn't really the same thing as pseudo-psychological stuff offered to people about solving all their life problems.

    Oh like the stuff on PI? Should a regulatory body shut that down?


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,544 ✭✭✭Samaris


    zeffabelli wrote: »
    Oh like the stuff on PI? Should a regulatory body shut that down?

    PI? Personal Issues, as in the forum on Boards? O.o Uh...no? Why? What?


  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Arts Moderators, Entertainment Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators Posts: 16,691 CMod ✭✭✭✭faceman


    Samaris wrote: »
    "Will the witness for the prosecution step forward."

    Sounds to me like faceman isn't really the sort of thing that this thread is complaining about. You give advice to people on accomplishing specific goals in a business arena, which isn't really the same thing as pseudo-psychological stuff offered to people about solving all their life problems.

    Hmmm, I'm seeing a trend here with the word 'advice'. Coaches don't give people advice. That's not what coaching is nor should it ever be. A coach is about unlocking an individual's (or group in some cases) potential to maximise their own performance in order to help them achieve their goals. Its a process of helping them learn, rather than teaching.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 2,515 ✭✭✭zeffabelli


    faceman wrote: »
    Hmmm, I'm seeing a trend here with the word 'advice'. Coaches don't give people advice. That's not what coaching is nor should it ever be. A coach is about unlocking an individual's (or group in some cases) potential to maximise their own performance in order to help them achieve their goals. Its a process of helping them learn, rather than teaching.

    They forget the coach part. Literally like a sports coach pushing your limits to reach potentials.

    It is as I understand a type of teaching, using androgy but also employing psychology from a number of its branches.

    It's certainly not psychoanalytic naval gazing based on historical narrative.

    I think this is a general synopsis of it in both business, personal, family and career development.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 34,808 ✭✭✭✭smash


    Imagine being so shít at life that you need someone to help you learn how to live... wtf is the world coming to?


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  • Posts: 12,694 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    You have to ask why someone feels the need to see one in the first place.


    One of my sister is a career guidance teacher and she is very good I know this from impartial sources, her big things are 80% of people have the aptitude to do 80% of the work/careers so a very few careers require an aptitude to be happy in them.

    I could see how a one off focused session with someone natural could help someone but I suspect deep down most people know what they should be doing anyway.


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