Whats wrong with the forum and how to correct it?

andy_g · 27-08-2015 12:01AM #1

Ok guys and gals.

Im coming to ask you our users where we need improvement to help us right the forum.

Im doing this off my own back and want to hear your feedback.

Please keep strictly to the topic and civil.

Im going to ask my fellow mods to stay out of this until we see what everyone wants. If there is a question directed to you by all means answer it.
Andy

Stheno · 27-08-2015 12:03AM

As a browser this forum is my go to place for anything aviation, anytime I've posted a question here, it has been answered with courtesy which I appreciate

knockon · 27-08-2015 12:43AM

Nothing Andy in my opinion. The threads are solid and really are all aviation related and you can't really legislate for the users. If someone has a question on cabin baggage or a question on anything else aviation related then there they are aviation questions. If anything the classification under Transport could be looked at. Maybe a separate Aviation section? As above .....This is my place to go for "Gen" on what's happening.

JCX BXC · 27-08-2015 12:51AM

I think there is two groups of posters here that seem to be causing a bit of tension. There's the established posters with alot of experience in the aviation industry, patience can sometimes be short with newer posters with little experience but an interest in aviation. Of course the newer posters post stupid questions etc but that is usually sorted out with a bit of Mod guildence

There's the problem of trolls, who fit into neither of these groups. The mods can be slow to respond, but its hard to know where the line of a new inexperienced poster and a troll lies imo.

Also, in relation to the people who seem to get annoyed at the extreme activity in the FR24 thread. I think if ya don't like it, unfollow it and don't post in it. Alot of users do like it and personally I think it's fine the way it is.

So to sum it up, I don't think there should be anything changed, although a slight change in attitudes wouldn't do any harm.

sully2010 · 27-08-2015 01:04AM

I would say the problem is a lack of moderation Andy. There are moderators who you see here pretty much every day and their opinions, contributions and moderation are very much appreciated.

Unfortunately I cant say that about all the moderators in this forum, some who you don't see for weeks on end;)

highlydebased · 27-08-2015 01:06AM

There is one key issue at hand- it's a small number of users getting a bit too passionate about saying their piece on an internet forum.

This forum has a really diverse audience, those who work in a variety of jobs in the industry in Ireland and overseas who are willing to share their experiences with strangers on the internet out of shared interest and passion. Anoraks enthusiasts like myself have learned tonnes from these people over the years and that's something we should all be grateful for. It sets the tone of the forum as a knowledgeable one. Feckacting around though, just makes people not want to come back or post anymore.

Everyone has their own opinions and things they feel passionate about, we all know what these kind of things are, but jumping in at any opportunity for this kind of ranting and raving and willy waving is far from ideal.

In short, the only way for the issue to be sorted is to take a moment before posting and think is what I'm about to post going to add genuine value or is it just going to rile other users up in some way. Remember this is only a forum and making it a highly politicised place just over some trivial detail is not worth it. I feel the below image is a good reference.

arubex · 27-08-2015 07:55AM

I like the split that PPrune made; the pros can post in their own sub-forum whereas enthusiasts can chatter away in geeky detail in the Spectator's Balcony.

Occasionally some cross-over into the other but in general their conversations go in different directions with different aims.

Anoraks enthusiasts like myself have learned tonnes from these people over the years and that's something we should all be grateful for.

It goes the other way, too. Many people who work in the industry don't know much in great depth beyond their particular sphere; they're busy doing their jobs after all. I've had mainline pilots ask me questions that any enthusiast could answer, at first I was surprised but upon reflection I suppose they need to specialise like doctors do.

27-08-2015 08:20AM

The forum is mostly fine as it stands, it generally reflects modern day life now, people who shoot their mouths off without thinking and then either not apologising or taking far to long to admit they were wrong in the first place.

The only issues I find are the new posters, the ones with less than 100 posts, these people need heavy moderation, some forums don't publish their posts till they have hit a magic number of posts, why you ask, because this forum attracts odd jobs (trolls) a certain one from the west for example who has set up about a dozen accounts to troll this forum. Weeding them out early would sort a lot of pain. The most recent one in the last 48 hrs I feel was let go for far to long before being sorted out. Back seat modding also needs sorting I've seen one individual on one particular topic acting very much like a MOD and speaking to others in way that should immediately be slapped down on (it puts people off).

Yes it's hard for us that have more knowledge of a particular subject field to get people to accept that what is being said to them by that particular poster is correct and right, it gets frustrating, other posters need to step back and accept the answer, but that is hard for posters who just pop in for a post or two and don't know poster XYZ is actually a professional 777 pilot flying for X airline with 200 years experience. These pro posters can't publish they have said experience for personal and professional reasons. Social media policies are rife within the aviation industry, you can see why when people can watch and listen to ATCOs and pilots having a barney at the holding point and within 5 mins it's being live tweeted on the Internet.

To surmise leave well alone mostly just heavily mod newbies to weed out the trolls quickly and a bit more patience from the professionals and avgeeks and blowins.

knucklehead6 · 27-08-2015 08:54AM

The only changes i'd even contemplate ( and i expect to get shot down for this) would be a list of a who's who.

Unfortunately we do have a few Walter Mitty's that post here from time to time, and yes, they are easily noticed, but there are some who manage to fly beneath the radar and then post as if from a position of experience.

Maybe if there was a thread, managed by the mods of that gave some idea as to who is flight crew and at the business end, who are cabin crew, who are ground crew, and who are good old fashioned plane/plain nerdy self loading cargo.

I know this would require administration, but some of the posters here go on as if they are Chuck Yeager, when they are more of a Charlie Brown, and that leads to a small degree of tension

27-08-2015 09:22AM

I only have one issue with this forum......

That us Plane Finder users are sorely discriminated against by the title of the FR24 thread! :P

Apart from that (non)issue, is place has been in good nick to my eyes!

In fact, I might change my name to that I was on PPRuNe..........nosefirsteverytime!

Long Time Lurker · 27-08-2015 10:24AM

arubex wrote: »

I like the split that PPrune made; the pros can post in their own sub-forum whereas enthusiasts can chatter away in geeky detail in the Spectator's Balcony.

.

As a "geeky enthusiast" I find that rather condescending at best and actually its an attitude (thankfully) which is generally absent from in here. This absence of any superiority complexes is what makes in here so inviting towards us mere enthusiasts.

I've learned so much about the aviation industry in here and hope to continue to do so. As my name suggests I've lurked in here for years - long before I ever posted - in an attempt to bring myself up to some sort of respectability knowledge wise. I've gone from a nervous flyer and a person who always had an ignorant but enthusiastic interest in Aircraft to someone who can now enjoy a flight and know what's going on while I'm at it. To the experienced and industry savvy person in here this might not seem like a big deal but to the ordinary eejit its a great help.

Yup for sure there'll always be a keyboard warrior but I don't think that's gonna change whether or not you segregate the geeks from the pros. I really hope that never happens. I genuinely am very thankful to all the very knowledgeable folk in here who've very simply educated me in the ways of the aircraft world and changed my flying from what was a chore to something I now very much enjoy.

dzilla · 27-08-2015 10:55AM

Or maybe the forum could continue as normal (a very good forum and the best on boards IMO) and the high horse brigade can climb down and stop trying to keep it aristocratic. Where does it end? Will you have to present your PPL before posting or having an opinion in the future?

PukkaStukka · 27-08-2015 10:58AM

sully2010 wrote: »

I would say the problem is a lack of moderation Andy. There are moderators who you see here pretty much every day and their opinions, contributions and moderation are very much appreciated.

Unfortunately I cant say that about all the moderators in this forum, some who you don't see for weeks on end;)

To be fair to the mods and this is based on my own experience of moderating a site elsewhere before, it really can be the most thankless of thankless jobs. Believe me, for all of the problems being highlighted here, this site is far better than some on boards.ie and even generally out there.

If you have a liberal approach to moderation, you are accused of being light touch and not doing enough, allowing the undesirables to take root.

If you moderate more assertively, you are accused of stifling discussion, being overbearing, following an agenda, being biased et al.

It really is incredibly difficult to be all things to all men and women, and perhaps the right thing to do is the counter-instinctive thing to do, and that's to ignore what annoys us rather than be upset by it.

Irish Steve · 27-08-2015 11:00AM

If this forum becomes anything like Pprune is now, the numbers posting will plummet like a stone, and it will be the beginning of the end for the forum.

Pprune has gone downhill badly since it was sold off to "professional operators", and it's impossible to keep track of discussions in very active threads, as the moderation there are aggressively removing massive numbers of posts all the time.

The biggest issue here is the people who are trolling, identifying them and blocking them is a pain, and is dependant on the moderators being available to take action, and the known issue there is the fundamental one of having to do the day job, and there are times when there are no moderators on line, so things can get heated very quickly with no one available to do anything about it.

Don't be in a hurry to change anything, unless there is suddenly a surge of posts all suggesting the same changes, which I think is unlikely, I would anticipate that with schools and colleges returning to action now, there will be a change in the activity levels which will resolve most of the issues.

MoeJay · 27-08-2015 11:00AM

Just my 2c...

Enforce the charter; e.g. a sticky about baggage/booking/delay/diversion/disruption consumer based issues with a friendly pointer to the travel forum. Those who are only visiting the forum for that reason probably don't read the charter first.

Making sure the "ask the airline pilot" thread actually is such a thing....i.e. asking and answering questions.

Sticky thread for pilot training for recreational/leisure purpose issues, questions, resources etc., and a similar one for commercially minded people - to avoid the same questions being asked over and over in new threads.

Other forums (fora?) have toyed with the idea of checking out people's credentials but in practice I don't think it's entirely workable. Generally speaking the spoofers get found out pretty readily.

If people are getting worked up in front of the keyboard then it's probably time to go and do something else! I have found the report/ignore function usually works pretty well instead of getting caught up in whatever...trolls will troll.

I don't find too much that dissenting opinions (when well presented) are necessarily shot down; no point in throwing a hissy fit if someone disagrees with you, such is life!!

Generally speaking the forum is pretty good; that's probably why "non-standard inputs" stick out so obviously...

martinsvi · 27-08-2015 11:21AM

I arrived on this forum almost 4 years ago and back then it was a very different place - it was full of knowledgeable people answering genuine questions from people willing to learn. Nowadays it gets flooded with things that either are irrelevant to forum or same questions get asked again and again without ever bothering to use the search function - this obviously creates some friction.

Here's what I think needs to be done:

1) too many topics on this forum have nothing to do with aviation & aircraft - which airline is the best? which meal I should order? when does check in starts? how do I get a seat together with my SO? Frankly I think that's travel chatter, not A&A

2) we have a fantastic thread called "Ask the Airline pilot" - if you go back to very first pages you see real questions followed by real answers.. lately it has turned into some chatterbox, with posts - although still containing useful info, should probably have their own topic or two. If you can keep this thread as a genuine FAQ, new users should have no excuse in coming in and asking same questions again and again.

3) I see no issue with folks discussing FR24.. I genuinely don't care about it, if folks have the need to discuss go-arounds, by all means have fun, as long as you can keep all your (non)events in one topic and not flood the forum with occasional 3 or 4 whenever there's a diversion

4) I plead guilty in having short temper thus I will try not to post at all when feeling annoyed

keith16 · 27-08-2015 12:04PM

Very little wrong IMO. Well run and enjoyable forum.

The only thing I would say is that I don't think the "off topic" thread is always that. Lots of aviation chatter in there.

peter1892 · 27-08-2015 12:07PM

I'd agree with previous comments regarding a 'so you want to be an airline pilot' sticky and the movement of questions related to check-in/seat reservations etc to the Travel forums.

I'd hate to see any kind of pprune-esque split where the professionals have their own section, mostly as I enjoy reading the opinions of those who work in the industry on the various topical issues.

Overall I've found this forum to be extremely enjoyable and very much inclusive of all those who have an interest in aviation. Moderation has been handled well and without the heavy handedness I've seen elsewhere (not necessarily boards.ie).

GTE · 27-08-2015 12:15PM

My opinion on this is that there is nothing wrong with the forum.

Like it or not, Boards.ie is a large forum with users whose interests span countless areas.

It is not fair or reasonable to expect the userbase to stay segregated to the forums which suit their personal interests. It goes against the advantage of having a single account, which access to information on nearly anything you could think of. Probably, this goes against the fundamental essence of what the site is about.

Given the above and the recent change to the Topic layout which has made the forum more visible to users (a great change, IMO); there will always be people who want relatively basic questions answered.

Afterall, this is the aviation forum. Where else would you want the basic questions sent to and how do you think that forum userbase would like it?

I have noticed this general issue come up in other Boards forums which are somewhat specialist. If the more experienced users have an issue with this, my view has always been for them to go to the extreme of their convictions and setup their own forum or cop on to the fact that this is an open community.

The Motors forum has a lot of newbies who ask basic questions, and they either get answered or filter down away from the front page. This forum is very slow compared to Motors, so perhaps the basic threads being seen for longer causes issues, which if true, is such a silly thing to get annoyed about.

If there are trolls, the mods need to step up but if it is a case that more experienced A&A users are not happy with an influx of new users and/or basic questions, then I can't take that seriously.

Storm 10 · 27-08-2015 12:15PM

I enjoy the forum but I find if someone posts something lets say about Dublin Airport after a while it strays completely off what the starting topic was about. I would urge users to stick to the opening topic and not post things that have no bearing on the post that was started.

smurfjed · 27-08-2015 12:35PM

According to the list at the bottom of this page, there are 9 moderators controlling this forum, but lately i have only seen two of them responding to issues, and in those cases they responded with infractions, warnings and even a ban.

As for the Malahide guy, that went on for far too long.

So I would like to ask, where are the moderators?

St. Leibowitz · 27-08-2015 12:45PM

I think the forum works very well, and has a broad cross section of users. I'm an enthusiast, not a professional, but I have been able to make good contributions, and answer questions. I have also learned an enormous amount from the other posters, professional and enthusiast alike.

I used to be a keen reader and contributor to the photography forum on boards years ago. It was a friendly and informative forum. Then something happened, not sure what, and over a few months it became an elitist and obnoxious place to visit. I dropped in about a year ago (maybe longer), having seen a post on the most recent posts on the home page, and discovered that not much seems to have changed. Apart from that visit, I haven't even viewed that forum for years. I'd hate to see this forum go the same way.

Please don't make changes which would give "professional" posters more weight, or separate them out. There are quite a few on here, and how they currently interact is fantastic. As I've said, I've learned a lot here, and find it very relaxed and friendly.

Finally, I think it's a great idea to look at something that appears to be working well, and ask if it can be done better. Great idea andy_g, and the opportunity to comment is much appreciated.

27-08-2015 01:02PM

smurfjed wrote: »

According to the list at the bottom of this page, there are 9 moderators controlling this forum, but lately i have only seen two of them responding to issues, and in those cases they responded with infractions, warnings and even a ban.

As for the Malahide guy, that went on for far too long.

So I would like to ask, where are the moderators?

I think we have only 2 dedicated mods for A&A whereas the other 7 cover a multitude of forums and boards on boards.ie and are probably only in here when a post is reported and the dedicated aren't available. One MOD hasn't posted in over 2 months and then only 3 times in 4 months !

EICVD · 27-08-2015 01:25PM

Nothing wrong with it in my opinion bar the obvious idiot troll asking the same ridiculous questions every 20 minutes. The non frequent flyer constantly asked questions are annoying of course but I just simply don't read them.

sjb25 · 27-08-2015 01:27PM

Very little wrong I don't work in aviation at all but I am interested in it a lot of things I haven't a clue of but it has always been answered by people who know more than me which is great I realy enjoy reading the posts here

I think a problem arises when somebody like me who only has a passing interest asks a silly question or makes a silly comment the silly part is not the problem iv made what turned out to silly comments/questions and I have been corrected and accepted the correction a problem starts when somebody who hasn't a clue starts trying to say the are right and everybody elese is wrong and this ends up exploding
Just my 2 cents from looking in
In general the forum is fine the way it is

LXFlyer · 27-08-2015 01:28PM

By and large the forum is fine.

I'd also echo what other people are saying - if people are annoying you, then simply add them to your "ignore" list, while also drawing moderators' attention to their posts by reporting it. That will always draw their attention to the problem faster.

I do that if necessary (and I'm not referring specifically to A & A here) and find that it does reduce blood pressure significantly and make reading the forum a lot easier.

You are always going to have issues with perhaps younger newbie posters who while being enthusiastic, may ask 1,000 questions, but generally a well worded post will make them see sense. This clearly didn't work recently for whatever reason with one poster.

People are always going to disagree, that's life, but I think an amount of respect for one another is not much to ask for, and for people to remember that boards.ie is a general forum, which means that not everyone is an aviation specialist! A bit of balance and common sense on all sides is required.

I do think that there might be a need to reassign moderaton to people who have a more specific interest in this field (while not having a vested interest). Some of those listed appear to be there simply because the forum is now a sub-forum of motoring & transport.

We appear to have three active A & A moderators (andy g, tenger and lord lucan) - perhaps you may need one or two more who understand the area better.

I do think that the travel queries (check in times etc) do need to be despatched to the travel forum a bit quicker. It can be a fine line, but perhaps questions about the aircraft are appropriate here.

Other than that, I think highlydebased's post above (#6) sums it up perfectly.

Wise Old Elf · 27-08-2015 01:32PM

My opinion is that there's a nice balance of enthusiasts and pros and I like the forum as is. It's where I go to when I hear of something aviation related (e.g. like the fire in the hangar in Dublin yesterday), where you're more likely to get some informed opinion/information.
I'm an enthusiast though, so I read more often than I post though, I might appear in the FR24 or the pics thread more often than anywhere else.
I know the travel questions can be frustrating, but that's not specific to A & A, stuff is posted in the wrong area of boards in every forum, especially with newly registered users.

Edit: I don't think I'd like to see it split into a pros/enthusiasts side. It has already been said, but I agree the experiences of those in the industry add greatly to this forum.

Ruu · 27-08-2015 01:36PM

I just pop in and put occasionally, I really enjoy the forum. It is one I dont feel intimidated by (unlike some other forums).Those mentioning about moderation, how long do you have to wait before action is taken? Keep in mind most have day jobs and go to bed at normal hours.

Do you report posts that you see a problem with? It is impossible and unfair for a moderator who does this in their spare time, to have to trawl through pages to find the issue.

IRLConor · 27-08-2015 01:56PM

PukkaStukka wrote: »

To be fair to the mods and this is based on my own experience of moderating a site elsewhere before, it really can be the most thankless of thankless jobs. Believe me, for all of the problems being highlighted here, this site is far better than some on boards.ie and even generally out there.

If you have a liberal approach to moderation, you are accused of being light touch and not doing enough, allowing the undesirables to take root.

If you moderate more assertively, you are accused of stifling discussion, being overbearing, following an agenda, being biased et al.

It really is incredibly difficult to be all things to all men and women, and perhaps the right thing to do is the counter-instinctive thing to do, and that's to ignore what annoys us rather than be upset by it.

I dunno, I modded a forum here and went on to work for Boards.ie for a few years (and hence had ban/siteban powers everywhere on the site). I almost never regretted banning someone but I frequently regretted not banning someone sooner. If in doubt, nuke 'em from a height. Things can always be straightened out later if the poster is reasonable. If they're not reasonable then there's no harm in leaving them banned.

Other than that the only suggestion I'd have for the mods is to be a little more free about moving threads to the Travel forum.

Oh and as a former mod, please, please, please use the report post function and never engage with a troublesome user on-thread.

PukkaStukka · 27-08-2015 02:10PM

IRLConor wrote: »

I dunno, I modded a forum here and went on to work for Boards.ie for a few years (and hence had ban/siteban powers everywhere on the site). I almost never regretted banning someone but I frequently regretted not banning someone sooner. If in doubt, nuke 'em from a height. Things can always be straightened out later if the poster is reasonable. If they're not reasonable then there's no harm in leaving them banned.

Other than that the only suggestion I'd have for the mods is to be a little more free about moving threads to the Travel forum.

Oh and as a former mod, please, please, please use the report post function and never engage with a troublesome user on-thread.

Agree with most of this but will add that in my experience that whilst the "nuke from a height option" was great at taking out a troublemaker, it sometimes created more trouble as the nuked troll was usually accompanied by a cluster of minions. These invariably threw their toys out of the pram and then the pram itself. I could go on about how vicious some of it got including nasty and violent threats being made off board, getting nuisance phone calls at home at 3am etc etc.

But back on topic and I have to agree with the general sentiment that moderation here is ok, perhaps a little under-staffed at times, but it is still a thankless job being a mod!

martinsvi · 27-08-2015 02:19PM

oh I just remembered another thing that gets my blood boiling - every time a crash happens forum fills up with armchair investigators who insist on speculating about possible causes being 10000km away from the site and having no facts known whatsoever.. that thing has to stop - I mean once facts start coming in (e.g. we get pictures of debris field, weather report at the time of the incident, cargo manifest etc), nothing wrong with a healthy discussion about what the known facts might indicate, but as it was in the case of Germanwings where some of the people desperately tried to "prove" their hypoxia speculation just minutes after a crash basing that on absolutely nothing - now that I don't like!

Whats wrong with the forum and how to correct it?

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