Whats wrong with the forum and how to correct it?

smurfjed

This was one of the topics that kicked off in the last month, from this posting to the moderator taking action was almost 24 hours and 26 messages later. That's why I asked the question where are the moderators?

08-08-2015, 21:17 #27
fr336
Jesus I hope SOMEBODY would if they suspected you were over the limits and about to fly ME somewhere. Some God complex some of you guys have here, guessing you're members of Pprune too.

09-08-2015, 20:28 #53
lord lucan
Moderator

I've issued a number of warnings and infractions on this thread and it will remain closed. Apologies to those who can conduct a discussion in an adult way but if people can't behave and not resort to personal attacks then threads will be regularly closed.

tricky D

I reckon the forum is doing just fine, not perfect, but fine nevertheless. As an informed (well I'd like to think) but zero-experienced* enthusiast located near LAPMO I have this forum on my daily patrol and followed, and love learning from the knowledgeable folks in these parts (many thanks) and contributing what little value (I hope) I can. *Damn my colourblindness.

Forums like this evolve with more knowledgeable posting getting diluted by newbies, trolls, Walts and the like. It's an unintended consequence of increasing popularity. That said there isn't much 'wrong' with this forum. Over-exuberant newbies usually just need a bit of hand holding, trolls and Walts need to be rooted out, just like many other forums which increase in popularity.

To address some points raised in no particular order and without any intended prejudice toward any poster(s):

• Some more experienced posters need to filter more and take less offense from poor postings. Don't like the fluff in the FR24 thread, scan and skip. Some one is a troll or Walt, ignore and/or report them. We mods love when users use the report function.
• DeVore has said on many occasions that any sort of 'us and them' scenarios (verified experts or private forum) are very, very unlikely to happen for reasons that are pretty much bullet-proof.
• More moderation presence or better, more moderators looks like a good idea. A heavier hand wrt back seating and non-reporting of problem posts would be a suggestion too. Note: not having a go at the mods here in any way. As a mod myself I refuse to find or seek fault a fellow volunteer bar extreme circumstances where it is really deserved, which is no where near the case here. /tips hat.
• Some posters need to remind themselves that they too were newbies once upon a time and made silly mistakes and asked stupid questions. Not all users are as competent as we would like.
• Some one's opinions of how the forum should be run are not the same as others'. Posters have varied interests which won't coincide with yours. No one person owns this forum, it's everybody's.
• The cartoon in post #6 is apt. Some times you're better off just saying sod it and going off and doing some thing else.
• When incidents occur, people will speculate, rightly and wrongly. That's the way it is when real knowledge is not yet available, people will put all sorts of good and bad stuff into the knowledge void. It is a natural part of the human condition which gives us stuff like conspiracy theories, idle gossip, etc. but it can also have many positives - ymmv. It's almost impossible to prevent. (Edit) It's also not a requirement that so much offense is taken in these scenarios. Too much offense being taken in general these days, I prefer to give a Gallic shrug instead, it's easier on the soul. I'd also suggest as an engineer, that in such situations you start by speculating as many reasons as seem likely and whittle them down as the evidence comes in.
• What I would suggest change is more explicit and overt moving of meals, seating, connections etc. to the Travel section. It is in the charter but as a mod I know how much they (don't) get read.
• Lastly, to reiterate my first point: if you don't like the content then scan, filter, skip, ignore, use the report function more.

/2c and kutgw

PukkaStukka

There's a prize gobsh!te posting away about the horrors of choppers over in the Arran Islands thread at the mo. Advice given is that he's best ignored and I'm sure his radio will go quiet soon enough.

Strumms

I also think its a well run forum.. however if there are areas that could be looked at to further improve the Aviation forum experience..

* Enforce the section of the charter that prohibits travel chatter and questions and threads are moved or locked down quickly rather then 3 pages of debate. Again you may need more Mods.

*Quicker identification of trolls who drag stuff off topic and who start nonsence topics which should be locked or if relevent just merged to the off topic section.

The upshot seems to be that more Mods may be useful. Lets not forget those who are giving their time to moderate the forum have jobs.. and presumably a family, interests and certainly a life away from the internet also. It would be nice if some of the folks who have been borderline critical in this respect might be some of the first to put their hands up to give a dig out if indeed its decieded more mods should be required.

martinsvi

tricky D wrote: »

• When incidents occur, people will speculate, rightly and wrongly. That's the way it is when real knowledge is not yet available, people will put all sorts of good and bad stuff into the knowledge void. It is a natural part of the human condition which gives us stuff like conspiracy theories, idle gossip, etc. but it can also have many positives - ymmv. It's almost impossible to prevent. (Edit) It's also not a requirement that so much offense is taken in these scenarios. Too much offense being taken in general these days, I prefer to give a Gallic shrug instead, it's easier on the soul. I'd also suggest as an engineer, that in such situations you start by speculating as many reasons as seem likely and whittle them down as the evidence comes in.

/2c and kutgw

that's all fine however you have to remember that behind most speculations, particularly those involving pilot error, people (pilots, crew, engineers etc) are being accused without any evidence. That's not cool

Dbarry55

The forum is great and informative, if I have 1 gripe it would be that it doesn't alert you when somebody answers a question you've asked. !

Irish Steve

Dbarry55 wrote: »

The forum is great and informative, if I have 1 gripe it would be that it doesn't alert you when somebody answers a question you've asked. !

There is an option to set that you will get an instant E-mail notification of activity in a thread. At the bottom of the page, thread subscriptions, set type.

LXFlyer

Irish Steve wrote: »

There is an option to set that you will get an instant E-mail notification of activity in a thread. At the bottom of the page, thread subscriptions, set type.

You can also look up the usercp (user control panel) which lists any threads which you have posted in that have replies on it.

highlydebased

Strumms wrote: »

* Enforce the section of the charter that prohibits travel chatter and questions and threads are moved or locked down quickly rather then 3 pages of debate. Again you may need more Mods.

.

The trouble with those kind of travel posts (e.g how can I checkin online, what size suitcase, how long for connections) is that they are not regular posters by and large. They simply see "Aircraft" and assume that it's the right place when Travel probably fits the bill better. Perhaps a Random Air Travel questions thread would be suitable for these kind of things with all questions dumped there.

Strumms

highlydebased wrote: »

The trouble with those kind of travel posts (e.g how can I checkin online, what size suitcase, how long for connections) is that they are not regular posters by and large. They simply see "Aircraft" and assume that it's the right place when Travel probably fits the bill better. Perhaps a Random Air Travel questions thread would be suitable for these kind of things with all questions dumped there.

I agree to a point.. we could try that maybe.. That could work as another option, all the same id probably slightly more be in favour of more enforcement of that part of the charter by moving topics etc.. the same poster is just going to start a new thread rather then look for the relevent thread anyway..

A Dub in Glasgo

I don't think it should change, I will still continue to post some pics, give an opinion on things now and then. My professional capacity is railway signalling but I don't go onto the rail systems forum demanding people who know little about signalling stop posting. You can challenge and rebut, in a fair way

fr336

This thread has been very interesting, especially with regards those lurkers who have been here for years and happy to read away. Glad they get something out of both the experienced, interesting folk here and also those more lacking in knowledge, enthusiastic folk.

I think a good distinction is to be made between trolls, people posting too much (guilty) and egos being bruised on fair points. It's only the internet but after the behaviour of some people, jesus I wouldn't want to do anything actually bad to them talk about taking yourself seriously :eek: As the mods say attack the post not the poster, well I think it's good to bear in mind whose post you're attacking as some people will just explode. Unsure why a random username on the web would be so important to them.

Anyway, peace and love to all....

fr336

fr336 wrote: »

This thread has been very interesting, especially with regards those lurkers who have been here for years and happy to read away. Glad they get something out of both the experienced, interesting folk here and also those more lacking in knowledge, enthusiastic folk.

Anyway, peace and love to all....

V contented lurker here - I love this forum.

andy_g

So far id like to thank everyone for their comments i havent had a chance to read the whole thread yet but i have taken notes on some of the areas being raised.

I'll give this thread until monday i'll summerize the issues raised and see where we can make any changes if needed.

But remember this is your forum and what you put into it is what you should be getting out of it.

We dont want to have to segregate professionals from anyone not in the industry and the point of this forum is to bring the community together as a whole not drive them away like the Great Plague.

KoolKid

I would just add to the opinions that the place is fine.There is very little friction compared to many places on Boards. The issues are few and far between.
I find the professionals here very friendly & helpful to us mere mortals .;)

Mech1

KoolKid wrote: »

I would just add to the opinions that the place is fine.There is very little friction compared to many places on Boards. The issues are few and far between.
I find the professionals here very friendly & helpful to us mere mortals .;)

If I had time to post anything thought through, it would closely resemble the above.

Crumbs868

At the end of the day this is a sub forum on Ireland's busiest and most general forum. As with all sub forums here it's going to be hard to moderate and will always have a vast mix of posters / threads

From the posts of certain members I see only a few options

1. Hire 20 moderators (who work shift basis) and have a zero tolerance approach to any questions that the experts already know / grinds their gears
2. Set up a new subscription forum and enjoy yer circle jerk
3. Have it like the soccer forum and members only.

However should any of the above be implemented I think that some of the posters who are calling for change will quickly move on as they seem to thrive on bullying. I called up one of the posters on this thread recently on another thread re his irritating posting style and he reported my post and here he is now in the middle of it all name checking posters he doesn't like. Nothing short of bullying while hiding behind the teacher

I think some of the posts here are disrespectful of the moderators here (quoting certain cases where they feel named moderators have done a poor job) who give their time up for free for a thankless task around a topic they love

Poochie05

I'd just like to echo some of the sentiments above. I think this is one of the best forums on Boards and wouldn't like to see it change much. Mainly lurking but I check this forum every day, and always pop in to see the 'informed' responses to events and news on all things aviation. Not only accidents and incidents, but also relating to the proposed IAG takeover and the like.

As a previously nervous flyer, I have found this forum invaluable to get more understanding of aviation and routine operations and events. From having zero knowledge or awareness, I now can identify the ridiculousness of the the Daily Mail type headlines instead of adding another notch to the OMG we're all going to die column!
I appreciate it can be frustrating when you have to answer what might seem like the same questions but thanks to those who have done, I have gained very useful knowledge and love lurking in this forum. And that epic night of the high winds at Dublin airport FR24 thread was probably the single most important event to make me appreciate the skill of pilots and what is routine and all part of a day's work.
On the 'travel' related questions, I agree some of them could be moved quickly to the travel forum, but for some of the airline travel questions such a routing, plane types, etc., you'd get a better answer here due to the number of people who work in the sector in this forum.
And I fully support the use of the 'report a post' button instead of jumping on people on thread, especially if the mods are thin on the ground.

Van.Bosch

I think it is fine as is. At the moment my interest is in the commercial side of aviation so things like the impact of the IAG takeover, new routes for EI/FR, growth at Dublin airport. These topics are covered in a small number of threads so I just ignore what doesn't interest me.

I suspect the majority of posters are into the aircraft side more than me but I think the forum is broad so people can open a thread and decide if they want to read it or not.

I agree that the over analysis / guessing of crashes is annoying so I think the thread split into speculation or facts for MH370 was good.

The constant SNN v ORK debate is unavoidable do I wonder would a specific thread on it be best, rather than trying to stop it, give it its own place where people could discuss if they wanted. This worked well on the infrastructure where one poster continued to derail a thread with his proposed re routing of DART underground.

Peregrine

smurfjed wrote: »

According to the list at the bottom of this page, there are 9 moderators controlling this forum, but lately i have only seen two of them responding to issues, and in those cases they responded with infractions, warnings and even a ban.

As for the Malahide guy, that went on for far too long.

So I would like to ask, where are the moderators?

That list includes all the category moderators which is a consequence of the recent category rearrangement and should be rectified in the upcoming site redesign. The Aviation & Aircraft forum itself has three moderators(Andy, LL and Tenger).

duskyjoe

For me this section is just part of the pie of boards.ie so your going going to get gawkers, rubber neckers and the constant troll of granny lost her spare teeth at the airport posts.........this certainly annoys the true aviation enthusiasts here who desire good and robust debate.

I can't recommend anything to change as mentioned we are part of the greater pie of boards.ie. ! we have no choice but to live with it. The flyinginireland forum had a confirmation of who you were system before you could post there and this just limited posts to the select few which achieved nothing IMO.

the Mods job is a thankless position and their managing the aviation section now is top class.

JCX BXC

Van.Bosch wrote: »

The constant SNN v ORK debate is unavoidable do I wonder would a specific thread on it be best, rather than trying to stop it, give it its own place where people could discuss if they wanted. This worked well on the infrastructure where one poster continued to derail a thread with his proposed re routing of DART underground.

As someone who has been involved in this debate, I'd like a break . A thread like that would require heavy modding and extra rules otherwise its just going to be a thread of personal attacks and insults.

bronn

Thanks for the opportunity to share a few thoughts, Andy.

I didn't think there was anything wrong with the forum and I've learnt a hell of lot from it. However, I see now that there are a few problems. I've had the opportunity to be a mod before in a few forums. On one forum it was truly a thankless task - at times it was awful. It got to the point where I just closed the forum and walked away. I'd hate to see that happen here. I reckon that a forum is only as good as the posters in it.

As I don't know what privileges etc can be set up here maybe the following suggestions are unworkable;

• Posters have to introduce themselves in an "introductions" topic and say why they have an interest in A&A before they can post anywhere in the A&A forum. In that intro topic, there should be a permanent post at the top of the page directing people to the travel forum if they want to know about how to books seats and the like. Introductions only, no replies saying Welcome! Hi! Blah de blah.
• Posters must also reach a certain number of posts in a general topic in A&A before they can start a topic of their own. 30 posts is usually a good indicator of a troublemaker or not.
• Posters have to be able to write clearly. No badly written txt speak posts or posts consisting only of smileys.
• No back-seat moderation. If you have a problem, either report it and/or walk away. PM'ing someone who's a "friend" on the forum is also a good way to vent.
• Have a topic which only the dedicated A&Aers have access too. Access is at the mods discretion and can be revoked. If there's a "safe corner" where the dedicated posters can retreat to, it de-stresses things very quickly. It's like Fight Club - you never talk about it outside Fight Club. The safe corner is never mentioned, never discussed and never referred to. Anyone who even hints at it gets the boot. Personally, I found this one to the best incentive to good behaviour.
• Lastly, trolls / shít-stirrers / gobsheens are gonna do their thing and you just have to accept it. They LOVE messing up a nice forum - in fact, some of them dedicate themselves to doing it. They have multiple accounts, they create arguments with themselves just to create friction between others and they love nothing more than attention. It's a Catch 22 situation because soon as you acknowledge the forum is under attack, the worse it gets but you have to say something or the forum is going to fall apart. Urgh! There is only one way for posters to deal with it. Ignore. Even though you want to punch the screen, ignore them and put them on your ignore list. Mods will get them eventually but they need posters to help out by not making a shít storm worse.

That's all I got. Thanks to all of you who've been friendly and educational. It's a great forum and I hope it continues to flourish.

r93kaey5p2izun

I almost never post here but I read every day as it's one of my favourites. I enjoy the forum - so thank you to the regulars who make the place interesting. I wouldn't feel I have much to contribute to the forum so I'm happy to read. I have to say the disdain expressed occasionally by some professionals towards enthusiasts, those with a passing interest, and passengers is more than a little off putting. But thanks again to those who generously give their time to answer questions with great explanations. I don't think there's anything much wrong with the forum but I realise it probably looks very different from a more knowledgeable perspective.

imurdaddy

Jade Straight Murderer wrote: »

I almost never post here but I read every day as it's one of my favourites. I enjoy the forum - so thank you to the regulars who make the place interesting. I wouldn't feel I have much to contribute to the forum so I'm happy to read. I have to say the disdain expressed occasionally by some professionals towards enthusiasts, those with a passing interest, and passengers is more than a little off putting. But thanks again to those who generously give their time to answer questions with great explanations. I don't think there's anything much wrong with the forum but I realise it probably looks very different from a more knowledgeable perspective.

On the money with this post! 99% of posters are perfectly civil and do the best to answer genuine questions, but there's an element of condescending "how dare you ask or express a different opinion in MY forum" and id say judging by the amount of posters in this thread saying the lurk and dont post that its off putting potential solid posters.

Mods have a difficult position to maintain, but if lurkers and mostly lurkers like myself can spot it im sure they do too.

pastorbarrett

Unthinkable to most here, but until recently I had a not inconsiderable fear of all things aviation, which for real-world work and social reasons was fairly debilitating.

I've found much in the way of reassurance here, in the form of insider insight and good old common sense - knowledge is power and all that...

And now I return and read because I enjoy to. Any problems here seem on the whole insignificant to me.

fr336

Crumbs868 wrote: »

However should any of the above be implemented I think that some of the posters who are calling for change will quickly move on as they seem to thrive on bullying. I called up one of the posters on this thread recently on another thread re his irritating posting style and he reported my post and here he is now in the middle of it all name checking posters he doesn't like. Nothing short of bullying while hiding behind the teacher

I think some of the posts here are disrespectful of the moderators here (quoting certain cases where they feel named moderators have done a poor job) who give their time up for free for a thankless task around a topic they love

Think this says most of what needs to be said on recent 'complaints'. An excuse to bully and jab people anonymously and they clearly see slagging off the mods and others indirectly as simple collateral damage.

pepe the prawn

I like this forum, there's great information at hand sometimes and nice friendly banter also..

Two things that annoy me however:

* During adverse weather, some members seem to get a thrill out of watching reporting go arounds and diversions, which is fine because they obviously find it exciting, but what bugs me is the posts which insinuate that tonight we could be in for a treat because pilots will be sweating trying to land 60 tonnes of metal and PAX.

* As has been seen here a lot of late, is the snide remarks between members, if people have a problem with each other I feel that they should either (A) sort it out by PM and don't clog up the forum with their arguments, or (B) contact the mods to intervene or moderate the bickering by PM.

Either way the arguing should be kept out of the public eye, everyone has their own problems and issues and I would imagine most people that visit this forum do so to look for aviation related info and talk to like minded enthusiasts. I'm training at the moment and have learned a share of things about real world airline operations and reasons for particular practices. I've also received some very solid information from airline pilots on here both on threads and by PM, which is inexplicably valuable to someone who is trying to climb the ladder into commercial aviation such as me, because trying to meet airline pilots in the flesh while training is quite difficult and the attainment of information from same is even harder.

Finally, I think it may be no harm to have a score card type system for infractions, ie three strikes and you're out kind of thing. Some members on here have been repeatedly warned by mods to cease certain types of behaviour yet they continue to act the maggot. So in cases such as that, I think that unless they can conform to the standard set down by the boards, then they should get a permanent holiday from the forum.

Just my observations.

FWVT

Change nothing. Just make the Ignore and Flag buttons bigger.

joegriffinjnr

Hi all, Im a bit of a lurker on these forums but post now and again. I find all mods excellent, and most members great. There are however one or two childish members but the ignore button does the job.

I have to say though, any questions I have asked over the years have been answered promptley and politely.

Business as usual I say.