US Journalists shot dead live on air [MOD WARNING in opening post]

Faith+1 · 26-08-2015 05:21PM

Not graphic but certainly fcuked up. Jesus

Faith+1 · 26-08-2015 05:22PM

Faith+1 wrote: »

Not graphic but certainly fcuked up. Jesus

Does anyone know what happened to the other woman?

rolexeagle1 · 26-08-2015 05:23PM

Faith+1 wrote: »

Does anyone know what happened to the other woman?

Shot in the back, had surgery and is out now in recovery

Wibbs · 26-08-2015 05:23PM

Faith+1 wrote: »

Does anyone know what happened to the other woman?

Injured but I believe she's expected to pull through.

knird evol · 26-08-2015 05:27PM

With the qualification that I do think US gun regulations should be stronger the crux of this terrible episode is the mans state of mind and intention. If an apparently normal healthy adult wandering around in society has an idea that because of losing his job and other perceived slights that it would be a good idea to end some peoples lives. And further having pondered that idea it remains good to him and he prepares and carries it out. Then all the gun restrictions in the world won't stop him. He will use a knife, sword, illegally purchased firearm etc. What stands out to me most is the cold clinical ruthlessness and the deranged motives. The tools of the trade or the methodology is secondary.

ibarelycare · 26-08-2015 05:27PM

Faith+1 wrote: »

Does anyone know what happened to the other woman?

https://twitter.com/ABC/status/636575072581324800

Harry Palmr · 26-08-2015 05:27PM

Wibbs wrote: »

Why are there so many bloody people reposting the same videos and images? Have we become such over stimulated ghouls? It's not only America with a problem.

I've never watched any of these anti-social media shooting videos, going back to the days of beheadings in Iraq. I know its horses for courses but I genuinely have no idea what people expect to learn by looking at them. Feels like wilful self-degradation to do so.

cdeb · 26-08-2015 05:31PM

knird evol wrote: »

With the qualification that I do think US gun regulations should be stronger the crux of this terrible episode is the mans state of mind and intention...Then all the gun restrictions in the world won't stop him. He will use a knife, sword, illegally purchased firearm etc.

This is true to an extent.

There is an underlying mental health issue which seems to be much worse in the US, and I don't know why.

But take guns away from people and they'll find it a lot harder to kill. Where are you going to get a sword from, for example? The guy could have used a knife, sure - but again, would have been a lot harder to kill two people and injure a third.

What guns bring - more than other weapons - is the ability to lose control for an instant and kill from a distance because of it. Gun apologists need to accept this fact. But it isn't the only factor at play in the US alright.

Severard · 26-08-2015 05:32PM

cdeb wrote: »

Doesn't really clear anything up unfortunately.

It is absolutely valid to compare gun deaths in the US to elsewhere and wonder when someone is going to do something about it.

For example, you are 3½ times more likely to be murdered by a gun in the US than in Montenegro, the highest European country on this (partial) list. Seven times more likely than in Canada, which is a similar set-up to the US.

Murder by guns in the U.S. is falling and that is a fact as highlighted in the link that I posted earlier.

But lets look at other countries, for example in this study conducted by Harvard [1] Russia in 2002 had a gun ownership rate of 4,000 per 100,000 people and had a murder rate of 20.54% yet in Norway in 2001 the gun ownership rate was 36,000 and a murder rate of only 0.81%.

America which is so often seen as the most violent place with guns is actually behind Russia, Estonia, Lativa, Lithuania, Belarus, and Ukraine–in murders.

I don't own a gun, never used one (and hopefully never will) and I don't like them at all but banning guns is not the way to solve this problem. But rather education on guns and an appreciation and respect for what they can do (which is what happens in Nordic countries that also have a high gun ownership rate) is a viable solution.

[1] http://www.law.harvard.edu/students/orgs/jlpp/Vol30_No2_KatesMauseronline.pdf

Thrill · 26-08-2015 05:33PM

Columbia wrote: »

I'm gutted that he shot himself (if true). It's the easy way out, he'll never face justice, and basically he got his own way.

He is still alive, in critical condition apparently.

Columbia · 26-08-2015 05:36PM

Thrill wrote: »

He is still alive, in critical condition apparently.

Good, I hope it hurts.

rolexeagle1 · 26-08-2015 05:37PM

They are now reporting he died at the scene.

WDBJ7 describes the murderer during his time at the station two years prior:
“He quickly gathered a reputation as someone who was difficult to work with,” Marks continued, saying that he would quickly “take offense”.
“Eventually after many incidents of his anger coming to the fore, we dismissed him. And he did not take that well, we had to call the police to escort him from the building.
“Since then, well, he then filed an action with the Equal Opportunity Employment Committee in which he made all kinds of complaints” about the staff. Flanagan alleged that the staff had made “racial comments”, Marks said, but “none of them could be corroborated by anyone, we think they were fabricated.”
The complaint was dismissed, and although employees continued to occasionally see Flanagan “at the grocery store or something”, interaction was limited and rare, Marks said.

knird evol · 26-08-2015 05:39PM

cdeb wrote: »

This is true to an extent.

There is an underlying mental health issue which seems to be much worse in the US, and I don't know why.

But take guns away from people and they'll find it a lot harder to kill. Where are you going to get a sword from, for example? The guy could have used a knife, sure - but again, would have been a lot harder to kill two people and injure a third.

What guns bring - more than other weapons - is the ability to lose control for an instant and kill from a distance because of it. Gun apologists need to accept this fact. But it isn't the only factor at play in the US alright.

Even if guns were blanket banned if this man had of wanted one and had $200 in his pocket then he'd have one. With a little shopping in a hardware store and a supermarket you can make a device will kill lots of people at a distance. And it's not hard. And don't call me a gun apologist - I don't own one and do believe they should well regulated.

seamus · 26-08-2015 05:41PM

Harry Palmr wrote: »

I know its horses for courses but I genuinely have no idea what people expect to learn by looking at them.

People like being able to draw their own conclusions rather than relying on 3rd hand reports and speculation. The media frequently do get things wrong or heavily spin or slant it.

Being able to just watch the footage and draw your own conclusions is about having certainty that you're not being lied to.

Its part of the reason why euronews has a strong niche following.

Atomic Pineapple · 26-08-2015 05:42PM

Severard wrote: »

Murder by guns in the U.S. is falling and that is a fact as highlighted in the link that I posted earlier.

But lets look at other countries, for example in this study conducted by Harvard [1] Russia in 2002 had a gun ownership rate of 4,000 per 100,000 people and had a murder rate of 20.54% yet in Norway in 2001 the gun ownership rate was 36,000 and a murder rate of only 0.81%.

America which is so often seen as the most violent place with guns is actually behind Russia, Estonia, Lativa, Lithuania, Belarus, and Ukraine–in murders.

I don't own a gun, never used one (and hopefully never will) and I don't like them at all but banning guns is not the way to solve this problem. But rather education on guns and an appreciation and respect for what they can do (which is what happens in Nordic countries that also have a high gun ownership rate) is a viable solution.

[1] http://www.law.harvard.edu/students/orgs/jlpp/Vol30_No2_KatesMauseronline.pdf

I believe you are right in that its the gun culture that is really what is Americas problem and not the actual availability of the guns themselves, in the Nordic countries you mention guns are respected and seen as something to only be used in the form of hunting and treated with the utmost respect I believe where as in America it is my opinion that the gun culture has degraded to a right to have a gun where it is seen as something that anybody should just be allowed and as such gun ownership has lost the respect it deserves.

The trouble is I think its so deeply ingrained in America now that only massively restricting gun ownership will help with the current situation until that degraded culture can be changed over a longer period.

Oryx · 26-08-2015 05:43PM

knird evol wrote: »

Even if guns were blanket banned if this man had of wanted one and had $200 in his pocket then he'd have one. With a little shopping in a hardware store and a supermarket you can make a device will kill lots of people at a distance. And it's not hard. And don't call me a gun apologist - I don't own one and do believe they should well regulated.

It does make a difference when you can walk into a supermarket and buy a gun. Not only are they more accessable, this ease of access makes them somehow more acceptable, and definitely makes gun crime more prevalent.

In theory I could buy a handgun here, but in practise it would be difficult for me as an ordinary Joe. In the states I could have one on my next shopping trip.

vicwatson · 26-08-2015 05:43PM

Jesus H, I haven't watched/looked for this video and don't want to see it (like I dont want to see ISIS beheading people).

Just the thoughts of it live on tv, their families, jesus. RIP those poor people.

Tombi! · 26-08-2015 05:43PM

Mod: there was an update to the first post warning.

From Dav - if you post videos of this event you will be site-banned. If you think posting something like that adds anything to the discussion, then we don't want you here.

If you have issues with it, go to Help Desk.

Wibbs · 26-08-2015 05:46PM

Atomic Pineapple wrote: »

I believe you are right in that its the gun culture that is really what is Americas problem and not the actual availability of the guns themselves, in the Nordic countries you mention guns are respected and seen as something to only be used in the form of hunting and treated with the utmost respect I believe where as in America it is my opinion that the gun culture has degraded to a right to have a gun where it is seen as something that anybody should just be allowed and as such gun ownership has lost the respect it deserves.

I don't think respect of firearms is the issue in cases like this. IMH it's a reflection on the mental health of the wider culture. The culture is apparently growing and nurturing more crazies these days.

knird evol · 26-08-2015 05:47PM

Oryx wrote: »

It does make a difference when you can walk into a supermarket and buy a gun. Not only are they more accessable, this ease of access makes them somehow more acceptable, and definitely makes gun crime more prevalent.

In theory I could buy a handgun here, but in practise it would be difficult for me as an ordinary Joe. In the states I could have one on my next shopping trip.

So you think that if he couldn't of purchased a legal firearm he would have lived out a normal productive life and we'd all live happily ever after. Naive.

conorhal · 26-08-2015 05:49PM

Wibbs wrote: »

Why are there so many bloody people reposting the same videos and images? Have we become such over stimulated ghouls? It's not only America with a problem.

Welcome to the 'new normal'. A world so bloody obsessed by social media that I doubt they even think twice.
Killers from IS on down upload their murders and confession, even victims (her producer boyfriend) seem to feel the need to tweet about it and everybody else up or down votes it or retweets it.
I suspect for many it isn't even 'real' to them until social media validates it.

Atomic Pineapple · 26-08-2015 05:52PM

Wibbs wrote: »

I don't think respect of firearms is the issue in cases like this. IMH it's a reflection on the mental health of the wider culture. The culture is apparently growing and nurturing more crazies these days.

I meant in comparison to other countries who don't seem to have a problem with murders and high gun ownership that in general it is my opinion that there is a culture problem towards respecting guns in America, they are almost seen as fun toys that everyone should be allowed to have which I believe in turn feeds into your own point where the mental health of the wider culture is degrading.

darkpagandeath · 26-08-2015 05:53PM

So let me guess the Racial issue in this one will be swept under the carpet as the wrong Race did the shooting ? The shooter already brought Race into it with accusations to the network bringing the Equal Opportunity Employment Committee to the table. And then happened to shoot a white reporter and a white cameraman.

seamus · 26-08-2015 05:54PM

Wibbs wrote: »

I don't think respect of firearms is the issue in cases like this. IMH it's a reflection on the mental health of the wider culture. The culture is apparently growing and nurturing more crazies these days.

It's a reflection of a poisonous ultra-capitalist society that the US has allowed to foster. When you have zero social supports for poor people, a health system that only serves the upper 20%, a for-profit education system and absolutely no individual protections in employment law, it's inevitable that the have-nots will increasingly become violent because they have nothing left to lose.

Throw in free availability of weapons and these incidents will continue happenig more frequently unless they have the good sense to move to a more socialist European model.
People tend to ask why other counties like Switzerland or Canada don't have the same problems when guns are just as available. And it's because those countries don't leave you out in the cold and piss all over you when you get sick or lose your job. The USA does.

pablomakaveli · 26-08-2015 05:56PM

Wibbs wrote: »

I don't think respect of firearms is the issue in cases like this. IMH it's a reflection on the mental health of the wider culture. The culture is apparently growing and nurturing more crazies these days.

I think it's becoming more prevalent due to the way these incidents are covered. Charlie Brooker did an excellent take off it on his Newswipe program.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PezlFNTGWv4

It's satirical yes but it drives home a really good point. The media has a big piece of responsibility for these type of crimes in the way theyalmost glamorize it. Would-be-shooters see this and want that noteriety too. With constant media saturation these days it's no surprise this sort of thing is becoming more common.

pmasterson95 · 26-08-2015 05:56PM

knird evol wrote: »

So you think that if he couldn't of purchased a legal firearm he would have lived out a normal productive life and we'd all live happily ever after. Naive.

This is such an utterly inane response. Obviously not. Crazies are still gunna be crazy. But handing out guns like candy to these crazies obviously means they can murder a lot more than having to use a boring slow auld knife. Those who are daft enough to believe guns for all make for more "safety" yet cannot fathom how it leads to far more murders are beyond reason

Atomic Pineapple · 26-08-2015 05:58PM

seamus wrote: »

It's a reflection of a poisonous ultra-capitalist society that the US has allowed to foster. When you have zero social supports for poor people, a health system that only serves the upper 20%, a for-profit education system and absolutely no individual protections in employment law, it's inevitable that the have-nots will increasingly become violent because they have nothing left to lose.

Throw in free availability of weapons and these incidents will continue happenig more frequently unless they have the good sense to move to a more socialist European model.
People tend to ask why other counties like Switzerland or Canada don't have the same problems when guns are just as available. And it's because those countries don't leave you out in the cold and piss all over you when you get sick or lose your job. The USA does.

This is basically what I was trying to say but I couldn't quite articulate it, thanks seamus great post.

knird evol · 26-08-2015 05:59PM

pmasterson95 wrote: »

This is such an utterly inane response. Obviously not. Crazies are still gunna be crazy. But handing out guns like candy to these crazies obviously means they can murder a lot more than having to use a boring slow auld knife. Those who are daft enough to believe guns for all make for more "safety" yet cannot fathom how it leads to far more murders are beyond reason

Highlight the part of my inane post where I said guns should be handed out like candy.

RichardCeann · 26-08-2015 06:00PM

seamus wrote: »

It's a reflection of a poisonous ultra-capitalist society that the US has allowed to foster. When you have zero social supports for poor people, a health system that only serves the upper 20%, a for-profit education system and absolutely no individual protections in employment law, it's inevitable that the have-nots will increasingly become violent because they have nothing left to lose.

His Twitter is closed now but if you view the cached version of it, you will see that he took a selfie in a medical centre just one week ago.

previous user · 26-08-2015 06:00PM

Was there some racist bullying going on, could that have been the motive for the guy to snap and shoot them both.

US Journalists shot dead live on air [MOD WARNING in opening post]

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