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DCM 2015: Mentored Novices Thread

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Comments

  • #3452
    Mrs Mc
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,119 ✭✭✭Mrs Mc


    This Fat Girl Runs wrote: »
    Thanks everyone for being understanding. I really appreciate everything you've said and have taken it to heart. Looking back over my training, I really have come a long way. I need to remember that. Like kennyg said, I shouldn't look too far into the future! (It's scary!)

    In related news, my September plan has me dropping a PT session in favour of a recovery run on Mondays (after my Sunday long run). This will also help spread out my weekly mileage into reasonable chunks as I'll be running 4 days a week instead of 3. I'll be doing regular hill sessions too on Thursdays before my easy run. I think the change in routine will be good for me and I'm looking forward to it.

    So I'm feeling better now than I was when I posted earlier. Thank you for all the great reminders and words of wisdom! I am going to screenshot those and make them into my desktop wallpaper. I have a feeling I'll need reminding again at some stage!

    Hang in there TFGR its an emotional ride, there will be tears, there will be tantrums there will be doubt but hopefully the end result will be worth it in the end, keep the faith, we all have bad weeks and I am sure we will have plenty more between now and October, but we are all in this together to help each other out. Keep smiling and keep running :)


  • #3453
    Mrs Mc
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,119 ✭✭✭Mrs Mc


    Just back from sports massage, was feeling a few niggles in my lower back and my achilles after Saturdays FD. Went out for 4 miles recovery on Sunday but Monday was feeling very uncomfortable and the stretching and foam rolling didn't seem to relieve so was thankful that I had booked in for my session tonight. Feeling so much better after it, was in a lot of pain as I got work done on the legs but hopefully will feel the benefits of it. Took the advice of FBOT to forget about the 4 mile run today and rest up get back into it tomorrow, no point in getting injured for 4 miles. So am taped up and ready for tomorrows run. :)


  • #3454
    Pink11
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 723 ✭✭✭Pink11


    A quick question, if someone would be kind enough to double check for me?

    Based on my 10 mile result of 1 hour 24 and my half marathon which I also took very easy: 1 hour 52mins - what kind of race time/prediction are ye getting for me on your race calculators for the Big M?


  • #3455
    AuldManKing
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,237 ✭✭✭AuldManKing


    Pink11 wrote: »
    A quick question, if someone would be kind enough to double check for me?

    Based on my 10 mile result of 1 hour 24 and my half marathon which I also took very easy: 1 hour 52mins - what kind of race time/prediction are ye getting for me on your race calculators for the Big M?

    Its difficult to give a predicted time based on a race result while not knowing how a persons training is going etc - however, McMillan would have you at 3:55 - but he is a litle on the optimistic side, especially when it comes to Novice Marathon Runners.

    Interestingly though, if you said that you ran a HM in 1:52, but ran it easy - then its strange as a 1:24 10m would equate to a 1:52 HM so maybe a sub 4 is not out of the question.

    However - this is based on you completing your training and not putting your feet up for the next few weeks..............:P


  • #3456
    Pink11
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 723 ✭✭✭Pink11


    AuldManKing wrote: »
    Its difficult to give a predicted time based on a race result while not knowing how a persons training is going etc - however, McMillan would have you at 3:55 - but he is a litle on the optimistic side, especially when it comes to Novice Marathon Runners.

    Interestingly though, if you said that you ran a HM in 1:52, but ran it easy - then its strange as a 1:24 10m would equate to a 1:52 HM so maybe a sub 4 is not out of the question.

    However - this is based on you completing your training and not putting your feet up for the next few weeks..............:P

    Thanks! I was getting the same and have been aiming for 3 hrs 59mins (or faster) :D

    I ran both the HM and 10 mile at an easy pace. Perhaps I'm being too cautious but 'm absolutely terrified I'll injury myself between now and the big M. I find it interesting as today I read everyone discussing that we should race the HM. I think I'm being over cautious?

    My other worry/concern right now is the amount I seem to need to drink during runs. I don't know why I need so much water!?


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  • #3457
    FBOT01
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,447 ✭✭✭FBOT01


    Pink11 wrote: »
    Thanks! I was getting the same and have been aiming for 3 hrs 59mins (or faster) :D

    I ran both the HM and 10 mile at an easy pace. Perhaps I'm being too cautious but 'm absolutely terrified I'll injury myself between now and the big M. I find it interesting as today I read everyone discussing that we should race the HM. I think I'm being over cautious?

    My other worry/concern right now is the amount I seem to need to drink during runs. I don't know why I need so much water!?

    Hi Pink, I wouldn't worry too much about racing the HM if you are comfortable with where you are in your training. Caution is not a bad thing. It is a good way to ensure you get to the start line in one piece :)

    On the drinking issue in a complicated one and differs greatly from person to person. The starting point would be to ask the professional i.e. your doctor to see if they can identify a reason. After that it would be to ask
    • Is this something new as part of marathon training or has this always been the case?
    • Is the need to drink on every run or just long runs?
    • How much do you drink and at what intervals?
    • Do you generally sweat a lot during runs?
    • Is it just plain water that you drink or do you have anything in it?


  • #3458
    Chops1234
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 83 ✭✭Chops1234


    Pink11 wrote: »
    A quick question, if someone would be kind enough to double check for me?

    Based on my 10 mile result of 1 hour 24 and my half marathon which I also took very easy: 1 hour 52mins - what kind of race time/prediction are ye getting for me on your race calculators for the Big M?

    A girl I work with ran the half last year in just under 2 hours. It took her nearly 5 hours to do the full. I (stupidly) asked her why it didn't take her 4 hours. She said the heat/wind last year was just awful and from reading some of last years thread, a lot of people were saying the same.

    Not saying this will happen again, but I have a goal of 4:30 but am trying to remember that on the day, things may not go to plan for whatever reasons so really my goal is just to finish!


  • #3459
    chrislad
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,324 ✭✭✭chrislad


    Got up early to do my 8 mile. It wasn't my favorite run ever, but it's done with now. Pace was fairly consistent, apart from one downhill stretch. Calf is a little tender, but not sore to use, so I'll be popping and icing it for the morning!


  • #3460
    aquinn
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,970 ✭✭✭aquinn


    Pink11 wrote: »
    Thanks! I was getting the same and have been aiming for 3 hrs 59mins (or faster) :D

    I ran both the HM and 10 mile at an easy pace. Perhaps I'm being too cautious but 'm absolutely terrified I'll injury myself between now and the big M. I find it interesting as today I read everyone discussing that we should race the HM. I think I'm being over cautious?

    My other worry/concern right now is the amount I seem to need to drink during runs. I don't know why I need so much water!?

    Morning,

    I asked this a few times last year as was doubtful I'd break 4 hours and I didn't but that wasn't down to my training it was the day and I was told to enjoy my first marathon. I had a 10 mile of 1:19 and a HM of 1:49. My aim on the day was to enjoy it. A lot of people struggled so don't kill yourself trying for a time that conditions on the day may hamper. Stick with the training but be prepare to adjust on race day. I didn't want to be traumatized and never have another go at it so I'd a wonderful day but a lot of people didn't. 18 degrees and windy in October wouldn't be classed as ideal race conditions.


  • #3461
    annapr
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,936 ✭✭✭annapr


    Chops1234 wrote: »
    A girl I work with ran the half last year in just under 2 hours. It took her nearly 5 hours to do the full. I (stupidly) asked her why it didn't take her 4 hours. She said the heat/wind last year was just awful and from reading some of last years thread, a lot of people were saying the same.

    Not saying this will happen again, but I have a goal of 4:30 but am trying to remember that on the day, things may not go to plan for whatever reasons so really my goal is just to finish!

    This is a very important point, especially for first timers. Until you do the distance, you don't know if you can do the distance! And the calculators are based on perfect training, conditions, etc. One rule of thumb is double your HM time and add at least 20 minutes.

    Last year, a lot of people (including me!) suffered in the weather on the day -- we didn't expect 18-19C at the end of October! So, you will have to be prepared to adjust your expectations on the day. IMO, better to have a more conservative goal for the first one and exceed it than to be too aggressive and blow up.


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  • #3462
    Firedance
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,009 ✭✭✭Firedance


    aquinn wrote: »
    Morning,

    I asked this a few times last year as was doubtful I'd break 4 hours and I didn't but that wasn't down to my training it was the day and I was told to enjoy my first marathon. I had a 10 mile of 1:19 and a HM of 1:49. My aim on the day was to enjoy it. A lot of people struggled so don't kill yourself trying for a time that conditions on the day may hamper. Stick with the training but be prepare to adjust on race day. I didn't want to be traumatized and never have another go at it so I'd a wonderful day but a lot of people didn't. 18 degrees and windy in October wouldn't be classed as ideal race conditions.
    annapr wrote: »
    This is a very important point, especially for first timers. Until you do the distance, you don't know if you can do the distance! And the calculators are based on perfect training, conditions, etc. One rule of thumb is double your HM time and add at least 20 minutes.

    Last year, a lot of people (including me!) suffered in the weather on the day -- we didn't expect 18-19C at the end of October! So, you will have to be prepared to adjust your expectations on the day. IMO, better to have a more conservative goal for the first one and exceed it than to be too aggressive and blow up.

    These are excellent points and I'll add my voice to what the girls have already said, you need to be prepared to dial back your pace and adjust your expectations on the day, and perhaps set lower expectations from the off. If your training goes well and conditions on the day are great then all the better, but the most important thing is to enjoy the day, you will never have another first marathon :)


  • #3463
    rainbow kirby
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 26,928 ✭✭✭✭rainbow kirby


    annapr wrote: »
    Last year, a lot of people (including me!) suffered in the weather on the day -- we didn't expect 18-19C at the end of October! So, you will have to be prepared to adjust your expectations on the day. IMO, better to have a more conservative goal for the first one and exceed it than to be too aggressive and blow up.

    The weather for DCM can be incredibly variable - for my first it was mild and dry (14-16 ish by the end), for my second quite cold (-3 leaving the house, 0 on the start line, but warmed up to a perfect 10c by the end), I remember one or two wet stinker days and last year was warm.

    All you can do is try and mix things up a bit - people should have run the vast majority of their long runs in conditions that would be considered relatively warm though if they were training properly over the summer, and should know how to deal with a long run on a wet day too.


  • #3464
    Myles Splitz
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,306 ✭✭✭Myles Splitz


    annapr wrote: »
    IMO, better to have a more conservative goal for the first one and exceed it than to be too aggressive and blow up.

    No harm having an aggressive goal to train towards however on the day best advice I have heard over the years is from a boardsie (won't name him as he has a big enough head but lets just say he is fond of his story times

    But don't have one go that determines success or failure

    Set a range of goals ranging from finishing, to PB's to your best case scenario on the day.

    If you have one goal and that slips very hard to keep the mental focus however by setting a range of goals it can keep you honest when one slips through your grasp (common sense applies however and best not to take the Declan Moffatt Approach


  • #3465
    Pink11
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 723 ✭✭✭Pink11


    Really appreciate all the replies. I'll keep reminding myself what you guys have told me. Such great advice full of sense. I sometimes need to be railed in because in general I am very hard on myself and beat myself up!

    I can kind of relate. Even just on a HM... took me over 2 hours to do a half, lost all my confidence and just a few weeks later I didn't strain myself and breezed the RNR HM in 1 hr 52mins. Mainly due to the race day conditions. And I just felt good on the day.

    I really don't want to spend the marathon worrying about my finish time, you're all right, i need to enjoy my first one. Doing a second one will be different - can focus on beating my time then. But for now focus on finishing. I just like to have an indicator based on a couple of my recent races of how I'd do if I keep up that pace and training.

    (thanks for the help on my drinking problem (ha!). I'm honestly not sure why but my throat is constantly dry. Perhaps a habit or perhaps medical so must get that looked into.

    Thanks so much guys. This thread is like my helium!


  • #3466
    diego_b
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,386 ✭✭✭diego_b


    Nice posts there this morning, definitely taking that all in. I think about 4 hours a bit but knowing more experienced runners than me struggled to break that. I am training towards that goal on my mp runs and basing my LSR times on it as well.
    However my current thoughts are goal A, finish the marathon (and enjoy it), goal B (4:15, my HM PB is 1:52:28), goal C (4hrs).
    I will probably try use the pacing group on the day to keep my pacing even and ensure I don't blow up.

    Small training update this morning, got out early (7:15am, earliest time ever for a training run) and did 3.2 miles @ 10:07min/mi (I did 4.85m last night in training and don't want to exceed the mileage target for the week). Will do the 8 mile run in London tomorrow and the 19mile LSR over there as well on Saturday.


  • #3467
    coolhandspan
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 407 ✭✭coolhandspan


    Hi all, Like Pink just looking for some advice on here, ran 10 mile frank duffy in 1hr 11 50sec, Never ran marathon or even half before. Hoping to break 1hr 38m in half next month. On runkeeper sub 3.30 plan at moment, am i being far too optimistic? should i stay on current plan, training ramping up a lot in september...:confused::confused::)


  • #3468
    Murph_D
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 10,855 ✭✭✭✭Murph_D


    This thread from a couple of years back shows various people's experiences in scaling up from HM to Marathon distance for the first time. It shows how unreliable the calculators can be when you're tackling the distance for the first time.


  • #3469
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 53,068 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    My original intention was for 4:30 or better - that was based on me getting sub 2:00 for the Great North Run which I thought would be an easy ask at this stage of my training.

    Now I'm not sure of times for anything any more! I'm honestly thinking I'm going to end up nearer the 5 hour mark, which tbh just sounds like a horrific time to be on my feet, but at least if I keep that kind of a time in my head I'll be better prepared than if I was expecting to be in the pub at that stage and my world is starting to fall apart when I realise I've another 30 minutes to go.


  • #3470
    chrislad
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,324 ✭✭✭chrislad


    I'm the same. 4:30 is now my C goal, 5:00 is my B goal, and finishing is my A.

    Let's not forget: Just being able to run for 26.2 mile straight is a massive achievement in itself. I started the C25K on Jul 12th last year. On that first run, I had to stop about 10 times over a 2.5km distance. This morning, I rang 8 miles before breakfast! Getting to where we are now is an achievement in itself!


  • #3471
    Firedance
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,009 ✭✭✭Firedance


    Deleted User wrote: »
    My original intention was for 4:30 or better - that was based on me getting sub 2:00 for the Great North Run which I thought would be an easy ask at this stage of my training.

    Now I'm not sure of times for anything any more! I'm honestly thinking I'm going to end up nearer the 5 hour mark, which tbh just sounds like a horrific time to be on my feet, but at least if I keep that kind of a time in my head I'll be better prepared than if I was expecting to be in the pub at that stage and my world is starting to fall apart when I realise I've another 30 minutes to go.

    the mental battle is more important than the physical one on the day, or on any race day tbh so yes, if you're expecting to achieve something and its not working out on the day it can be very difficult mentally to keep going. This is the reason for the A, B and C goals, your C goal should be 'to finish' its the one that will be achievable (barring serious injury) and you need to be OK with reaching that achievement alone if the other goals slip away. This is the battle I had with myself in the last few miles when all hope of anything I thought I might achieve had well gone I had to tell myself 'you will finish this' over and over - it worked.


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  • #3472
    ZV Yoda
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,458 ✭✭✭ZV Yoda


    diego_b wrote: »
    Nice posts there this morning, definitely taking that all in. I think about 4 hours a bit but knowing more experienced runners than me struggled to break that. I am training towards that goal on my mp runs and basing my LSR times on it as well.
    However my current thoughts are goal A, finish the marathon (and enjoy it), goal B (4:15, my HM PB is 1:52:28), goal C (4hrs).
    I will probably try use the pacing group on the day to keep my pacing even and ensure I don't blow up.

    Small training update this morning, got out early (7:15am, earliest time ever for a training run) and did 3.2 miles @ 10:07min/mi (I did 4.85m last night in training and don't want to exceed the mileage target for the week). Will do the 8 mile run in London tomorrow and the 19mile LSR over there as well on Saturday.

    Your goals are exactly the same as mine!

    Back when I started HHN1, I originally set myself a target of sub 4hr. While my training has been going well, the last race (Frank Duffy) made me realise how much an impact the weather / conditions can have, so I'm revising my goals accordingly.

    A: Finish it (preferably in one piece)
    B: 4:15
    C: 3:59


  • #3473
    annapr
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,936 ✭✭✭annapr


    ZV Yoda wrote: »
    Your goals are exactly the same as mine!

    Back when I started HHN1, I originally set myself a target of sub 4hr. While my training has been going well, the last race (Frank Duffy) made me realise how much an impact the weather / conditions can have, so I'm revising my goals accordingly.

    A: Finish it (preferably in one piece)
    B: 4:15
    C: 3:59


    You're doing your A/B/C in reverse :D

    A= your highest goal :)


  • #3474
    aquinn
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,970 ✭✭✭aquinn


    Don't forget the D goal that if it all goes to S(it to have something to look forward to post-marathon. Mine were holidays, dinghy sailing and ROK.


  • #3475
    diego_b
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,386 ✭✭✭diego_b


    ZV Yoda wrote:
    Your goals are exactly the same as mine!

    Back when I started HHN1, I originally set myself a target of sub 4hr. While my training has been going well, the last race (Frank Duffy) made me realise how much an impact the weather / conditions can have, so I'm revising my goals accordingly.

    A: Finish it (preferably in one piece)
    B: 4:15
    C: 3:59
    Very good that's it really, variables like weather or illness could affect things. Will continue training as I am but will see on the day how things are going. Those last 6.2 miles are going to be a complete unknown plus running the full thing at marathon pace. I trust in the plan and will do my best but I have zero intention of ending up on the floor on the day.


  • #3476
    FBOT01
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,447 ✭✭✭FBOT01


    annapr wrote: »
    You're doing your A/B/C in reverse :D

    A= your highest goal :)

    Thanks Anna........that was killing me. Get enough stick already for my OCD issues so didn't want to be the one to correct it :D


  • #3477
    Singer
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,415 ✭✭✭Singer


    Right now, my goals are looking something like:

    A: Pints in McGrattens
    B: < 3:45
    C: < 4:00
    D: Just finish the bloody thing.

    Hitting at least one of the goals is conservative I reckon :)


  • #3478
    FBOT01
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,447 ✭✭✭FBOT01


    aquinn wrote: »
    Don't forget the D goal that if it all goes to S(it to have something to look forward to post-marathon. Mine were holidays, dinghy sailing and ROK.

    How's that working out for you?


  • #3479
    ZV Yoda
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,458 ✭✭✭ZV Yoda


    annapr wrote: »
    You're doing your A/B/C in reverse :D

    A= your highest goal :)

    Oops... so that's:
    A: 3:59
    B: 4:15
    C: Finish it in one piece
    diego_b wrote: »
    Very good that's it really, variables like weather or illness could affect things. Will continue training as I am but will see on the day how things are going. Those last 6.2 miles are going to be a complete unknown plus running the full thing at marathon pace. I trust in the plan and will do my best but I have zero intention of ending up on the floor on the day.

    Yip - same for me


  • #3480
    ZV Yoda
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,458 ✭✭✭ZV Yoda


    FBOT01 wrote: »
    Thanks Anna........that was killing me. Get enough stick already for my OCD issues so didn't want to be the one to correct it :D

    He he... I'm sure you'll relate to this :D

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PzXB_1xi--8


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  • #3481
    Firedance
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,009 ✭✭✭Firedance


    FBOT01 wrote: »
    Thanks Anna........that was killing me. Get enough stick already for my OCD issues so didn't want to be the one to correct it :D

    that's why I said this in my post :D
    Firedance wrote: »
    your C goal should be 'to finish'


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