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Biomass Fuel as Renewable Energy

  • 19-08-2015 11:28am
    #1
    Jim Martin
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 807 ✭✭✭


    From what I understand from the media, unless Moneypoint Power Station converts to biomass in the next 10 years, then it will have to close down. This topic will need to be followed very closely from now on!


Comments

  • #2
    circadian
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,145 ✭✭✭circadian


    I personally think that as a nation we should be shifting to generating biofuel and biomass, however, it seems the government aren't interested in assisting indigenous business in this sector.

    We could easily grow crops that could then be used to create fuel (certain types of prairie grass is easy to grow with solid returns). This would reduce our reliance on fuel imported from elsewhere in a volatile market.

    http://www.irishexaminer.com/ireland/turning-the-tapon-biofuels-193845.html

    Interesting article from a few years back.


  • #3
    Nukem
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,082 ✭✭✭Nukem


    Jim Martin wrote: »
    From what I understand from the media, unless Moneypoint Power Station converts to biomass in the next 10 years, then it will have to close down. This topic will need to be followed very closely from now on!

    Unfortunately biomass cannot be the only solution. It's a question of security of supply, indigenous fuel sources and fuel mix.

    See attached

    http://www.dcenr.gov.ie/energy/en-ie/Pages/Consultation/Renewable-Electricity-Support-Scheme-Consultation.aspx

    http://www.dcenr.gov.ie/energy/en-ie/Pages/Consultation/Renewable-Heat-Incentive-.aspx

    It's not that it's not on the radar but it's just not on it fast enough or as a main point. There was announcement of a new biomass power station in Mayo recently (http://www.rte.ie/news/2015/0607/706493-biomass-plant-mayo/) but the fuel source is mainly going to be from outside Ireland, as our current supply chain is not big enough. In that instance why would we convert money point to biomass and depend on further foreign imports again.

    Yet to see a proper joined up strategy for Ireland relating to renewable energy, biofuel and biomass :(


  • #4
    djpbarry
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 13,104 ✭✭✭✭djpbarry


    circadian wrote: »
    I personally think that as a nation we should be shifting to generating biofuel and biomass, however, it seems the government aren't interested in assisting indigenous business in this sector.

    We could easily grow crops that could then be used to create fuel (certain types of prairie grass is easy to grow with solid returns). This would reduce our reliance on fuel imported from elsewhere in a volatile market.

    http://www.irishexaminer.com/ireland/turning-the-tapon-biofuels-193845.html

    Interesting article from a few years back.
    Unless we're producing biofuel from waste (second generation biofuels), then the whole thing's a false economy.

    Growing crops specifically for energy production really doesn't strike me as an efficient use of land.


  • #5
    circadian
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,145 ✭✭✭circadian


    djpbarry wrote: »
    Unless we're producing biofuel from waste (second generation biofuels), then the whole thing's a false economy.

    Growing crops specifically for energy production really doesn't strike me as an efficient use of land.

    We already use land to cut turf. Obviously we couldn't run the whole country on biofuel but an effective self sustainable energy policy would be diverse and implement different forms of production.


  • #6
    djpbarry
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 13,104 ✭✭✭✭djpbarry


    circadian wrote: »
    We already use land to cut turf.
    Which is hardly a good thing.


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  • #7
    Nukem
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,082 ✭✭✭Nukem


    djpbarry wrote: »
    Which is hardly a good thing.

    I personally think the peat plants should be put on standby only and we should sacrifice an indigenous fuel (it's not going anywhere) and utilise the savings to focus on other renewable energy solutions in Ireland.

    Notes: in the PSO levy 'we' subvent the peat plants annually by €115 million, which are at best 37% efficient and far more carbon intensive versus gas plants.

    I know some of them are co-fired with biomass but it's relatively small in the overall scale of the plants total fuel.


  • #8
    circadian
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,145 ✭✭✭circadian


    djpbarry wrote: »
    Which is hardly a good thing.

    My point exactly, better use of land would be a fuel that can be harvested regulary, not once.


  • #9
    djpbarry
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 13,104 ✭✭✭✭djpbarry


    circadian wrote: »
    My point exactly, better use of land would be a fuel that can be harvested regulary, not once.
    What are you going to grow on bog that can be harvested for energy production?


  • #10
    Jim Martin
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 807 ✭✭✭Jim Martin


    djpbarry wrote: »
    What are you going to grow on bog that can be harvested for energy production?

    Willow!

    It can be grown very fast & harvested on a 5 year cycle & there is specially designed machinery to do this (when I've got more time, I'll search this out). Admittedly, there is a drawback in that there is a 1 year time lag while the harvested plants have to season in order to be dry enough to burn efficiently but once the cycle gets established, I can't see that there's a problem (only in storage space, but then that applies to any fuel). There's a bonus too - willow is great for biodiversity, it's high up on the list, close to oak!


  • #11
    Capt'n Midnight
    Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 93,127 Mod ✭✭✭✭Capt'n Midnight


    djpbarry wrote: »
    Growing crops specifically for energy production really doesn't strike me as an efficient use of land.
    It's more efficient than set-aside.

    And you can have mazes and paintball and other stuff while waiting.


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  • #12
    Markcheese
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,682 ✭✭✭Markcheese


    There was a big push to grow elephant grass ( miscanthus ?) here a few years back - hasn't worked out too well in the main - yields not what was expected-harvesting difficult-difficulty getting a market-
    Willow should be promising on poor -flat -boggy ground (of which there's a fair bit) -but it should really be harvested in winter- no prob in Scandinavia where the the ground is frozen solid bit soggy here -( probably doable though)

    Always thought gorse should be good for biomass -it grows fast-burns very fast and hot and fixes nitrogen -
    Main thing I thing we should be burning is Waste Derived Fuel -not mass burn incinerators but sorting our refuse and properly burning what's safe and not of more value elsewhere-

    Slava ukraini 🇺🇦



  • #13
    djpbarry
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 13,104 ✭✭✭✭djpbarry


    Jim Martin wrote: »
    Willow!

    It can be grown very fast & harvested on a 5 year cycle & there is specially designed machinery to do this (when I've got more time, I'll search this out). Admittedly, there is a drawback in that there is a 1 year time lag while the harvested plants have to season in order to be dry enough to burn efficiently but once the cycle gets established, I can't see that there's a problem (only in storage space, but then that applies to any fuel). There's a bonus too - willow is great for biodiversity, it's high up on the list, close to oak!
    Fair enough - I didn't know that.

    Still though, I'd prefer to see more of a focus on harvesting by-products for fuel production, rather than specifically growing crops for the purpose.


  • #14
    Nukem
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,082 ✭✭✭Nukem


    djpbarry wrote: »
    I'd prefer to see more of a focus on harvesting by-products for fuel production, rather than specifically growing crops for the purpose.

    I completely agree and not just harvesting, but re-utilisation of waste products (e.g anaerobic digestion for biogas). For once being a small country would play into our hands having a few centralised waste intake facilities from industry and live stock hubs to reuse the waste and inject to the biogas into the main transmission system or to be used in transport via CNG.

    Really would be a circular economy energy use, but alas there is no policy to support this system :(


  • #15
    Jim Martin
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 807 ✭✭✭Jim Martin


    An Taisce have been trying for years to develop anaerobic digestion for biogas as part of local development schemes - without success as far as I can tell!


  • #16
    ted1
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 23,771 ✭✭✭✭ted1


    Nukem wrote: »
    I personally think the peat plants should be put on standby only and we should sacrifice an indigenous fuel (it's not going anywhere) and utilise the savings to focus on other renewable energy solutions in Ireland.

    Notes: in the PSO levy 'we' subvent the peat plants annually by €115 million, which are at best 37% efficient and far more carbon intensive versus gas plants.

    I know some of them are co-fired with biomass but it's relatively small in the overall scale of the plants total fuel.
    Peat plants add to our energy independence and energy security it's the only reason that we're allowed rib them by Europe


  • #17
    ted1
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 23,771 ✭✭✭✭ted1


    Jim Martin wrote: »
    An Taisce have been trying for years to develop anaerobic digestion for biogas as part of local development schemes - without success as far as I can tell!

    Due to our farm size and Mainly my due to the fact that our cattle graze in fields A.D isn't feasible in Ireland. To much energy would be wasted in collecting and transporting the sh1t


  • #18
    Markcheese
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,682 ✭✭✭Markcheese


    Most of our farm waste will remain on farm - most farmers don't want it removed ,it's a resource - the exception being pig - poultry and mushroom waste-
    Our main resource for biomass is still waste derived fuel - but we've built (and are building) mass burn incinerators that will have to import waste to run at capacity -
    If municipal composting were embarked on the product could be used to fertilize cutaway bog - growing willow/ alder ect for biomass generators- the ash from these could also be reused on the willow-
    overall it'd be way more expensive
    than fossil fuel though - would irish consumers really pay for it ??

    Slava ukraini 🇺🇦



  • #19
    Nukem
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,082 ✭✭✭Nukem


    ted1 wrote: »
    Due to our farm size and Mainly my due to the fact that our cattle graze in fields A.D isn't feasible in Ireland. To much energy would be wasted in collecting and transporting the sh1t

    Agree that for small farms this is not a viable opetion but I would be concentrating on the large farms and agricultral industry hubs(e.g. Poultry processing plants, slaughter houses, pig processing plants...etc....) mixing forms of feedstock can make them more 'efficient' - lot of work being done on research in UCC/ERI which looks very promising.

    With regards the peat plants the fact of the matter is that it's currently costing Ireland considerable amounts of money to operate them and emit heavy amounts of nasties to the atmosphere. When the government policy talks about decarbonising it flys in the face of what they are doing elsewhere.

    An Taisce recently won a case regarding peat fired power station in Eden Derry. Dare I say they are right and caught them circumventing EU law in order to maintain government agendas on supporting peat in ireland (no that's just the cynic in me)

    http://www.antaisce.org/articles/an-taisce-wins-legal-case-regarding-edenderry-peat-fired-power-station


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