Phoenix Park tunnel: 4 trains per hour from 2016

GM228 · 18-08-2015 03:58PM

Thrashssacre wrote: »

What work needs too be done is it just signalling or is there some other problem with the line ?

Regarding the tunnel itself it requires a heavy cleaning, new lighting and train radio signal improvements and dampness prevention improvements.

The rest of the €13.7 million will go towards partial relaying of the line (Cabra area), ground stabilisation and embankment works near the Cabra end of the tunnel and singal relocation between Glasnevin-Heuston, Drumcondra station will be upgraded with new ticket turnstiles and Tara St station is to receice a new Southbound lift shaft.

Funding could not be obtained to allow up train access to platform 10 and so for now Heuston will not be served, it is possible for down trains to use platform 10 but this is likely to be left out so as to avoid confusion. A big let down IMO. Depending on patronage and further study of passenger trends a business case may present itself in the future for platform 10 and a station at Cabra.

Initial timetable (6 months validity possible) will be to/from Kildare only and then extended to/from Portlaoise.

GM228

NorthDublin1 · 18-08-2015 03:58PM

This sounds fantastic!

GM228 · 18-08-2015 04:02PM

cgcsb wrote: »

Seems a shame not to serve platform 10 plenty of people working between Capel Street and Inchicore and it wouldn't be very costly to add an overpass and perhaps a travelator like Dublin Airport's low cost pier D.

An alternative entrence/exit at the Clancy Quay development site should be considered.

The problem is the track and signal alterations required to access platform 10 and the costs associated, however it will be looked into in the future.

GM228

cgcsb · 18-08-2015 04:02PM

It also seems a bit of a waste for commuters since leap cards don't work in Kildare. A day return is a whopping €23.35. Much better off braving the N7.

end of the road · 18-08-2015 04:02PM

cgcsb wrote: »

Seems a shame not to serve platform 10 plenty of people working between Capel Street and Inchicore and it wouldn't be very costly to add an overpass and perhaps a travelator like Dublin Airport's low cost pier D.

An alternative entrence/exit at the Clancy Quay development site should be considered.

or even better simply extend the busses down to platform 10 or as near as possible to it. they can serve it and their original stop as well

GM228 · 18-08-2015 04:05PM

cgcsb wrote: »

It also seems a bit of a waste for commuters since leap cards don't work in Kildare. A day return is a whopping €23.35. Much better off braving the N7.

One step at a time!

A joint IE/NTA venture will be required for this in the future, lets get Cork Commuter sorted first!

GM228

LXFlyer · 18-08-2015 04:06PM

cgcsb wrote: »

Seems a shame not to serve platform 10 plenty of people working between Capel Street and Inchicore and it wouldn't be very costly to add an overpass and perhaps a travelator like Dublin Airport's low cost pier D.

An alternative entrence/exit at the Clancy Quay development site should be considered.

Anyone wanting to go to those locations will already have the existing services which will continue to serve Heuston.

In order to stop at Platform 10 it would require a new points crossover between the bridge over the Liffey and the Phoenix Park tunnel. That (and associated signalling) does not come cheap.

There are clearance issues between platform 10 and Conyngham Road so putting an exit there isn't really a goer.

Any bridges have to be compliant with disability legislation and again that isn't cheap at all.

As for a travelator - it's 700m from Platform 10 to Heuston main station - that's totally unrealistic. There would have to be connecting buses to/from the platform as there was in previous times.

cgcsb · 18-08-2015 04:07PM

end of the road wrote: »

or even better simply extend the busses down to platform 10 or as near as possible to it. they can serve it and their original stop as well

Not much good if you're going to clancy quay, inchicore or Kilmainham.

LXFlyer · 18-08-2015 04:08PM

NorthDublin1 wrote: »

This sounds fantastic!

Bear in mind though that this will only be one train an hour off-peak in either direction, and two per hour during the peak time.

LXFlyer · 18-08-2015 04:09PM

cgcsb wrote: »

It also seems a bit of a waste for commuters since leap cards don't work in Kildare. A day return is a whopping €23.35. Much better off braving the N7.

Well I would imagine that most commuters are using a point to point ticket purchased under the taxsaver scheme and are not buying tickets on the day.

GM228 · 18-08-2015 04:11PM

lxflyer wrote: »

Well I would imagine that most commuters are using a point to point ticket purchased under the taxsaver scheme and are not buying tickets on the day.

That's correct, monthly/annual TaxSaver tickets are available through Leap to these destinations, but still a tag on/off system would be ideal in the future.

GM228

GM228 · 18-08-2015 04:13PM

lxflyer wrote: »

As for a travelator - it's 700m from Platform 10 to Heuston main station - that's totally unrealistic. There would have to be connecting buses to/from the platform as there was in previous times.

776m to be exact!

A shuttle bus would most likely be what would be provided if/when 10 opens again.

GM228

Jamie2k9 · 18-08-2015 04:43PM

Really can't see an issue not serving Heuston there is lots of Intercity services there will still be intercity and commuter services as normal to pick up any passengers who want to go to Heusotn and don't think been dropped a few meters closer is required for those passengers.

Time will be critical to this and wasting time stopping in Heuston even if it's only a minute won't be good.

Anyway iE have their own link online.
http://www.irishrail.ie/news/phoenixparktunnel

end of the road · 18-08-2015 06:06PM

cgcsb wrote: »

Not much good if you're going to clancy quay, inchicore or Kilmainham.

i'm sure any services going that way could be sorted out also.

The_Wanderer · 18-08-2015 07:47PM

Evening folks,

Earlier today Minister Paschal Donohoe along with David Franks CEO Iarnrod Eireann and Anne Graham CEO National Transport Authority launched the €13.4m upgrade of the Phoenix Park Tunnel line. This will allow Commuters on the Kildare to Dublin Heuston line to have the option of direct trains to Drumcondra, Connolly, Tara St, Pearse and Grand Canal Dock Stations from late 2016.

Photos of the launch event are now available at http://smu.gs/1NhOk5Z

trellheim · 19-08-2015 12:37AM

where did the 22 reverse ? something is wrong in that sequence of pics ... I thought one of those moves wasnt allowed like pulling in northbound into P10 ... am I going nuts here or is it just for terminators into P10

Jamie2k9 · 19-08-2015 12:54AM

trellheim wrote: »

where did the 22 reverse ? something is wrong in that sequence of pics ... I thought one of those moves wasnt allowed like pulling in northbound into P10 ... am I going nuts here or is it just for terminators into P10

Signal wise it's not a problem, just take a little work from the signal men to clear.

Northbound pulling into P10 happens always once you exit the tunnel (see pic 15)

GM228 · 19-08-2015 09:04AM

Jamie2k9 wrote: »

Signal wise it's not a problem, just take a little work from the signal men to clear.

Northbound pulling into P10 happens always once you exit the tunnel (see pic 15)

It's a rather simple "shunt" move, up trains (from Kildare etc) could enter platform 10 but go no further towards GCD etc, however shunt discs allow a train to shunt a short distance into the tunnel on the down line in clear of the signal you see the ICR standing at, the signalling was set up this way originally to allow a loco run round a train on platform 10. There is no provision for a train to continue towards GCD from platform 10.

GM228

Long Time Lurker · 19-08-2015 10:09AM

Total random comment here but I think its rather pathetic that a TD (now minister) from a party, which has been in successive governments since the foundation of the state that has done very little but preside over the destruction of railways in this country, should turn up for a photo op in front of a Victorian tunnel as if its some major investment in rail infrastructure in the capital city.

It was built by the British before his great grand father was born. It was probably one of the last major rail infrastructure investments in this country and it was installed while we were a colony. He and his colleagues cant manage to connect an airport, moving in excess of 21 million passengers a year, 6 miles away from it to Dublin city centre yet he turns up for this. They should have flung rocks at him.

LXFlyer · 19-08-2015 10:24AM

Long Time Lurker wrote: »

Total random comment here but I think its rather pathetic that a TD (now minister) from a party, which has been in successive governments since the foundation of the state that has done very little but preside over the destruction of railways in this country, should turn up for a photo op in front of a Victorian tunnel as if its some major investment in rail infrastructure in the capital city.

It was built by the British before his great grand father was born. It was probably one of the last major rail infrastructure investments in this country and it was installed while we were a colony. He and his colleagues cant manage to connect an airport, moving in excess of 21 million passengers a year, 6 miles away from it to Dublin city centre yet he turns up for this. They should have flung rocks at him.

He is the Minister for Transport at a time when we (the State) are not exactly flushed with cash. This is a project which for a relatively small investment will deliver an improved service for commuters - why shouldn't he attend the launch?

I don't think we can particularly blame FG for the state this country's finances are in at this stage which has caused the delay in further projects - nor have we had a final decision on what project will go forward.

Let's wait and see rather than making somewhat personal insults at the man/party. This is a good news story, yet we still have people complaining.

And I certainly don't see it as a substitute for DART Underground, but it will result in more asset sweating of the existing network which has to be a good thing.

goingnowhere · 19-08-2015 10:30AM

trellheim wrote: »

where did the 22 reverse ? something is wrong in that sequence of pics ... I thought one of those moves wasnt allowed like pulling in northbound into P10 ... am I going nuts here or is it just for terminators into P10

Line was under engineer possession so any move is possible

cowboyjoe · 19-08-2015 10:47AM

Is anyone here in a position to estimate or predict how long the journey from platform 10 to say Grand Canal Dock would actually take? Hopefully this tunnel will not be a case of "it takes too long/is too slow so I don't bother using it".

Long Time Lurker · 19-08-2015 11:04AM

lxflyer wrote: »

He is the Minister for Transport at a time when we (the State) are not exactly flushed with cash. This is a project which for a relatively small investment will deliver an improved service for commuters - why shouldn't he attend the launch?

I don't think we can particularly blame FG for the state this country's finances are in at this stage which has caused the delay in further projects - nor have we had a final decision on what project will go forward.

Let's wait and see rather than making somewhat personal insults at the man.

With all due respect give me a break.

He should turn up at a press conference, apologise for him and his predecessors denying a capital city a proper rail infrastructure for each of their stints in government. Admit that this tunnel has been suggested as a fix for Dublin's rail link problems by people in the know since the beginning of time and then kindly not turn up a photo op.

Only die hard blue shirt-ism thinks other wise. (Not a political jab at one party by the way, they've all been awful at understanding the rail network and what's needed)

LXFlyer · 19-08-2015 11:11AM

cowboyjoe wrote: »

Is anyone here in a position to estimate or predict how long the journey from platform 10 to say Grand Canal Dock would actually take? Hopefully this tunnel will not be a case of "it takes too long/is too slow so I don't bother using it".

I'd imagine about 6 minutes from Islandbridge Junction to Glasnevin Junction, and then roughly 15 minutes from there to get around to Grand Canal Dock (as per the current journey time for Maynooth services).

So about 20 minutes in total.

LXFlyer · 19-08-2015 11:13AM

Long Time Lurker wrote: »

With all due respect give me a break.

He should turn up at a press conference, apologise for him and his predecessors denying a capital city a proper rail infrastructure for each of their stints in government. Admit that this tunnel has been suggested as a fix for Dublin's rail link problems by people in the know since the beginning of time and then kindly not turn up a photo op.

Only die hard blue shirt-ism thinks other wise. (Not a political jab at one party by the way, they've all been awful at understanding the rail network and what's needed)

Really? He is hardly personally responsible for previous decisions.

I think that you are going way over the top - that's an incredible rant with an awful lot of bitterness you've built up.

This is a good news story - why you cannot see that is beyond me.

cgcsb · 19-08-2015 11:16AM

Long Time Lurker wrote: »

With all due respect give me a break.

He should turn up at a press conference, apologise for him and his predecessors denying a capital city a proper rail infrastructure for each of their stints in government. Admit that this tunnel has been suggested as a fix for Dublin's rail link problems by people in the know since the beginning of time and then kindly not turn up a photo op.

Only die hard blue shirt-ism thinks other wise. (Not a political jab at one party by the way, they've all been awful at understanding the rail network and what's needed)

He might as well take responsibility for the civil war. The past is the past, being a member of a political party doesn't mean 100% endorsment of any past policy.

Long Time Lurker · 19-08-2015 11:26AM

lxflyer wrote: »

Really? He is hardly personally responsible for previous decisions.

And like wise he's hardy responsible for this one being put in place. This happened out of circumstance. His hand was forced by other factors. You're dead right, it is a great news story. I suspect though that the real people behind making this happen will never be seen or want to be seen in a photo.

Giving credence and credit to somebody who clearly doesn't deserve it and just uses an opportunity - born out of inability to do the job properly - (i.e. this tunnel has to be used because the lack of investment in proper infrastructure has left us with no choice) to score votes is just cynical in my mind.

Good news story. I agree. Thanks to him or any of his predecessors? You're having a laugh. I might as well be in that photo at that rate.

LXFlyer · 19-08-2015 11:34AM

Long Time Lurker wrote: »

And like wise he's hardy responsible for this one being put in place. This happened out of circumstance. His hand was forced by other factors. You're dead right, it is a great news story. I suspect though that the real people behind making this happen will never be seen or want to be seen in a photo.

Giving credence and credit to somebody who clearly doesn't deserve it and just uses an opportunity - born out of inability to do the job properly - (i.e. this tunnel has to be used because the lack of investment in proper infrastructure has left us with no choice) to score votes is just cynical in my mind.

Good news story. I agree. Thanks to him or any of his predecessors? You're having a laugh. I might as well be in that photo at that rate.

So who argued for the money at cabinet level to fund this?

No one is suggesting that he came up with the idea - anything but. But he is still the current Minister of Transport and the buck stops with him in terms of securing state funds for capital expenditure.

I'm no particular defender of politicians, but you seem to have a particular objection to the man - I'm not quite sure what he personally has done to deserve that, given the hand he was dealt (state of the country's finances).

Long Time Lurker · 19-08-2015 11:44AM

lxflyer wrote: »

I'm no particular defender of politicians, but you seem to have a particular objection to the man - I'm not quite sure what he personally has done to deserve that, given the hand he was dealt (state of the country's finances).

To get into a political argument would derail the thread (no pun intended

) but lets not forget that he, as a candidate in 2007 election - so clearly advocating past party policy, would have joined FG (at the time) in a chorus of demanding further tax breaks and higher spending post that budget thus fuelling the boom and subsequent collapse even further. Lets not exonerate him too much. Had he had his way there might not have even been money available to get this tunnel reopened. Short term memories.

bikeman1 · 19-08-2015 11:50AM

I would expect with good planning the following times would be achievable:

Islandbridge Junction 0 minutes
Drumcondra 7 minutes
Connolly 11 minutes
Tara St 14 minutes
Pearse 16 minutes
Grand Canal 18 minutes

I have made this journey many times over the years on specials with a variety of traction steam 461, to 121s to 071s. It is surprisingly fast even with the current slow line speed. With an enhanced line speed the above timings should be possible.

Whilst not having a stop at Heuston is regrettable, it should make the journey time even more attractive.

Another new journey option opening up from this will be a fast way to the airport. Hop off at Drumcondra and you can be in the airport within 20 minutes. 41 bus, aircoach. Taxi between 3 or 4 would be reasonable as well.

Phoenix Park tunnel: 4 trains per hour from 2016

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