Advertisement
If you have a new account but are having problems posting or verifying your account, please email us on hello@boards.ie for help. Thanks :)
Hello all! Please ensure that you are posting a new thread or question in the appropriate forum. The Feedback forum is overwhelmed with questions that are having to be moved elsewhere. If you need help to verify your account contact hello@boards.ie
Help Keep Boards Alive. Support us by going ad free today. See here: https://subscriptions.boards.ie/

The Irish language is failing.

1…6061636566…94

Comments

  • #1862
    LordSutch
    Closed Accounts Posts: 12,069 ✭✭✭✭LordSutch


    Dughorm wrote: »
    I genuinely don't believe the majority would support optional Irish to be honest...
    I'm sure everyone would welcome better teaching of course! And that's not to blame teachers in general - many do inspire a love of the language!

    Thing is, the curriculum has been tinkered with for eight decades to try and get us to embrace and speak the language, and this has clearly failed (you must agree)?

    So what have they not tried?

    I'll tell you. Taking the compulsory nature out of the beast. Making Irish a subject pupils want to study instead of being forced to study (after Inter Cert) . . .

    I think this should at least be triled for five years or so to see what happens, and if the take-up is good then its working, and if the take up for Irish is bad, then something else would have to be introduced to keep the language alive?


  • #1863
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 2,352 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    psinno wrote: »
    You don't think giving legal ascendancy to the language of a tiny minority has a colonial tinge to it?

    Assuming for a moment that the above has some practical meaning in terms of the law or the Constitution, only a prejudiced person could believe that the Irish language has "legal ascendancy".

    I've said more than once that arguments made on this thread by people like yourself are based on prejudiced viewpoints. If you want to make arguments about the position of the Irish language in Irish life - or ask questions of those of us who believe it should have a place in Irish life - at least make an effort to base your arguments and questions on what is and isn't, not on what you do and don't like.


  • #1864
    Dan_Solo
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 10,087 ✭✭✭✭Dan_Solo


    LordSutch wrote: »
    Thing is, the curriculum has been tinkered with for eight decades to try and get us to embrace and speak the language, and this has clearly failed (you must agree)?

    So what have they not tried?
    The thing is this is one of the central pillars of the pro-compulsory Irish brigade argument: that Irish people really really really want to speak Irish all the time but it was never taught to them properly.
    The simple fact that nobody wants to speak Irish that is staring them in the face can never once be admitted is true.


  • #1865
    Dan_Solo
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 10,087 ✭✭✭✭Dan_Solo


    Deleted User wrote: »
    Assuming for a moment that the above has some practical meaning in terms of the law or the Constitution, only a prejudiced person could believe that the Irish language has "legal ascendancy".
    WTF? The Irish version of the constitution takes legal primacy. This is a cast-iron widely known indisputable fact. Is reality prejudicial? For some people I guess!


  • #1866
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 2,352 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    psinno wrote: »
    What are the rational dispassionate reasons for mandating Irish in schools?

    If you have an argument to make to change the status of either of our languages in law and in the public realm, it's up to you to make it rather than trying to change the discussion to draw attention away from your inability to advance your case.

    You should bear in mind that my argument isn't about "mandating Irish in schools", or whatever other hobby horse you have. I would prefer a radical overhaul of the teaching of Irish, as it happens. But that view of mine is by the by. Your argument is based on your inability to get to grips with Irish and your prejudices against it. If you want to be taken seriously, you'll need to advance more credible arguments that rely on reason rather than emotion.


  • Advertisement
  • #1867
    Dan_Solo
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 10,087 ✭✭✭✭Dan_Solo


    Deleted User wrote: »
    Your argument is based on your inability to get to grips with Irish and your prejudices against it.
    Any chance you'd show us some evidence for any of this "inability" or "prejudice" or are you just, ya know, blathering on made up stuff again like you were caught red handed earlier with the "human rights" thing that you fabricated?


  • #1868
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 2,352 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    Dan_Solo wrote: »
    Translation: no actually, I can't back up my claim about what you said with a quote, but here's some vague waffle instead.
    Nailed.

    Translation?

    But translation is something you just can't do. :D

    Aistriúcháin: Is mó bealach le cat a mharú ná é a thachtadh le him. ;)


  • #1869
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 2,352 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    Princess Consuela Bananahammock wrote: »
    FTR - I think all subjects should be optional after Junior Cert, english included.

    Nope, I'm not buying that either.

    FTR.


  • #1870
    Dan_Solo
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 10,087 ✭✭✭✭Dan_Solo


    Deleted User wrote: »
    Translation?

    But translation is something you just can't do. :D

    Aistriúcháin: Is mó bealach le cat a mharú ná é a thachtadh le him. ;)
    Whatever. Caught lying about other posters multiple times and the best you can do is some oh so hilarious Irish blather which nobody really gives a **** what it means.
    Well done lad. Well done.


  • #1871
    Dughorm
    Closed Accounts Posts: 895 ✭✭✭Dughorm


    LordSutch wrote: »
    Thing is, the curriculum has been tinkered with for eight decades to try and get us to embrace and speak the language, and this has clearly failed (you must agree)?

    The language has been in decline for a few hundred years - you must agree?!

    But that's not the point, there have been incremental improvements, such as gaelscoileanna, retirement of Peig, 40%+ Oral Irish exam - you must agree?!
    LordSutch wrote: »
    So what have they not tried?

    Loads of things -
    Junior Cert Oral Irish Exam
    Additional optional subject for literature and poetry "celtic studies"
    Primary school 'turas scoile' to the Gaeltacht
    Gaeltacht immersion trips in non-exam years
    Continuous assessment - community expression of Irish etc...

    I could go on.... but I think the 40%+ Oral Irish should be given a chance to bed down - it certainly puts those lazy "dead-language" notes-only Irish teachers on the back foot!


  • Advertisement
  • #1872
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 2,352 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    Dan_Solo wrote: »
    Whatever.

    I know you don't know what it means - but there's always google.

    Or better still, go spend a week learning the language, and then come back here and post your thoughts on the topic.

    Beir bua agus beannacht.


  • #1873
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 2,352 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    Dughorm wrote: »
    I could go on.... but I think the 40%+ Oral Irish should be given a chance to bed down - it certainly puts those lazy "dead-language" notes-only Irish teachers on the back foot!

    Over the years we've made a bollix of teaching Irish - though I guess we've also done that with some other subjects too.

    We put way too much emphasis on written Irish and the "caighdeán", at the expense of conversation, caint agus éisteacht.

    Hopefully the changes that have been made will help. An bhfuil siad ró-dhéanach? B'fhéidir, ach is fiú an iarracht.


  • #1874
    Dan_Solo
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 10,087 ✭✭✭✭Dan_Solo


    Deleted User wrote: »
    I know you don't know what it means - but there's always google.

    Or better still, go spend a week learning the language, and then come back here and post your thoughts on the topic.

    Beir bua agus beannacht.
    How do you know I don't know what it means? Because you've been caught out multiple times lying about other posters and the best you have in reply is to give us an Irish proverb?
    Bit of a non-sequitur that isn't it, huh?


  • #1875
    Dan_Solo
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 10,087 ✭✭✭✭Dan_Solo


    Deleted User wrote: »
    An bhfuil siad ró-dhéanach? B'fhéidir, ach is fiú an iarracht.
    It's dead mate. Dead and buried.
    Under 1% of the country use it in any meaningful sense. There's more habitual Polish speakers.


  • #1876
    Carlos Orange
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,499 ✭✭✭Carlos Orange


    Deleted User wrote: »
    If you have an argument to make to change the status of either of our languages in law and in the public realm, it's up to you to make it rather than trying to change the discussion to draw attention away from your inability to advance your case.

    That is certainly true in some sense. There is a burden on someone asking for a particular change due to the requirement to overcome inertia. On the other hand it really amounts to just conceding the current state of play exists only because it exists. Apparently there isn't any particular rational argument in favour of it.

    It is about as convincing as Irish has to be mandatory because we have loads of Irish (language) teachers.


  • #1877
    Dughorm
    Closed Accounts Posts: 895 ✭✭✭Dughorm


    Dan_Solo wrote: »
    It's dead mate. Dead and buried.

    When did it die - in your opinion?


  • #1878
    Dan_Solo
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 10,087 ✭✭✭✭Dan_Solo


    Dughorm wrote: »
    Loads of things -
    Junior Cert Oral Irish Exam
    Additional optional subject for literature and poetry "celtic studies"
    Primary school 'turas scoile' to the Gaeltacht
    Gaeltacht immersion trips in non-exam years
    Continuous assessment - community expression of Irish etc...

    I could go on.... but I think the 40%+ Oral Irish should be given a chance to bed down - it certainly puts those lazy "dead-language" notes-only Irish teachers on the back foot!
    This is delusional.
    Do you really think only 1% of people who pass their LC are able to hold any sort of conversation in Irish? Of course they are. They've been listening to and speaking Irish for hours a week for 13-14 years.
    They just don't want to speak it or hear it when they don't have to.


  • #1879
    Dan_Solo
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 10,087 ✭✭✭✭Dan_Solo


    Dughorm wrote: »
    When did it die - in your opinion?
    It "died" as being a language of any consequence nationally when it got to under 1% of the population using it in any way habitually. When it was surpassed in popularity by another language, Polish, which has only had any sizable number of speakers in the last few decades at most.


  • #1880
    Dughorm
    Closed Accounts Posts: 895 ✭✭✭Dughorm


    Dan_Solo wrote: »
    It "died" as being a language of any consequence nationally when it got to under 1% of the population using it in any way habitually. When it was surpassed in popularity by another language, Polish, which has only had any sizable number of speakers in the last few decades at most.

    So only recently then? Ah sure we'll be grand... that's like being a goal and a few points down at half time :D


  • #1881
    Dughorm
    Closed Accounts Posts: 895 ✭✭✭Dughorm


    Dan_Solo wrote: »
    This is delusional.
    Do you really think only 1% of people who pass their LC are able to hold any sort of conversation in Irish? Of course they are. They've been listening to and speaking Irish for hours a week for 13-14 years.
    They just don't want to speak it or hear it when they don't have to.

    It would appear from this thread many people haven't been listening to and speaking Irish for hours a week...more like learning off translations and essays...

    More's the pity... irish teachers acting like undertakers using your terminology!


  • Advertisement
  • #1882
    Dan_Solo
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 10,087 ✭✭✭✭Dan_Solo


    Dughorm wrote: »
    So only recently then? Ah sure we'll be grand... that's like being a goal and a few points down at half time :D
    So when something is dead that isn't a problem because it only died recently? So basically you're saying Irish needs a miracle to save it?!?!


  • #1883
    Dan_Solo
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 10,087 ✭✭✭✭Dan_Solo


    Dughorm wrote: »
    It would appear from this thread many people haven't been listening to and speaking Irish for hours a week...more like learning off translations and essays...
    You're kidding me. Do you think people go through primary and secondary school without hearing any spoken Irish at all?


  • #1884
    Dughorm
    Closed Accounts Posts: 895 ✭✭✭Dughorm


    Dan_Solo wrote: »
    You're kidding me. Do you think people go through primary and secondary school without hearing any spoken Irish at all?

    I genuinely wouldn't be surprised - with the exception of the aural tapes of course - what was your Irish teaching like?


  • #1885
    Carlos Orange
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,499 ✭✭✭Carlos Orange


    Dughorm wrote: »
    It would appear from this thread many people haven't been listening to and speaking Irish for hours a week...more like learning off translations and essays...

    More's the pity... irish teachers acting like undertakers using your terminology!

    I did find it weird back in the day how the honours leaving cert Irish students memorised essay answers (as the teachers policy not something random students did). Almost as weird as the fact I can't remember whether my pass Irish class did that or not.


  • #1886
    Dughorm
    Closed Accounts Posts: 895 ✭✭✭Dughorm


    Dan_Solo wrote: »
    So when something is dead that isn't a problem because it only died recently? So basically you're saying Irish needs a miracle to save it?!?!

    But Irish isn't a problem - it's a way of communicating for people who enjoy it.

    It's "dead" using the arbitrary statistical measure you've decided upon based on your own authority.

    To me a language is alive when people use it to relax and chat over a pint - try it some time!


  • #1887
    Sh1tbag OToole
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,971 ✭✭✭Sh1tbag OToole


    A language with only 1 fluent speaker is still alive. Languages can even be revived from the dead in some cases. Don't think even 1% of the crowd that left the secondary school I went to could hold a conversation in Irish


  • #1888
    Princess Consuela Bananahammock
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 33,779 ✭✭✭✭Princess Consuela Bananahammock


    Deleted User wrote: »
    Nope, I'm not buying that either.

    FTR.

    You're not buying it as an idea, or the fact that I beleive it?

    I;ve state it repeatedly that I belive the Leaving Cert should be entirely chosen by the student. Your opinion seems to be that this makes students simple: I notice you cut that bit out rather than reply to it?

    In any case, it;s a sidescreen: the question is: how does cumpolsory Irish for the LC help the language?

    Everything I don't like is either woke or fascist - possibly both - pick one.



  • #1889
    georgewickstaff
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 360 ✭✭georgewickstaff


    The amount of time my kids WASTE learning this s**t genuinely upsets me. I loathe it and the ghastly micro minority who put so much effort into the whole theater of pretending the language is important or relevant.

    Enough FFS.


  • #1890
    Dughorm
    Closed Accounts Posts: 895 ✭✭✭Dughorm


    georgewickstaff wrote: »
    The amount of time my kids WASTE learning this s**t genuinely upsets me. I loathe it and the ghastly micro minority who put so much effort into the whole theater of pretending the language is important or relevant.

    Enough FFS.

    Same could be said for religion, drawing, english literature etc... - it's as relevant as you want it to be!!! but why be deprived the opportunity of a liberal arts education?


  • Advertisement
  • #1891
    Iwasfrozen
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 16,250 ✭✭✭✭Iwasfrozen


    Dughorm wrote: »
    Same could be said for religion, drawing, english literature etc... - it's as relevant as you want it to be!!! but why be deprived the opportunity of a liberal arts education?
    No one wants to deprave anyone of anything, we just want Irish made optional. Is that hard to understand?


Advertisement