On Liveline right now - residential dog training

boomerang · 17-08-2015 01:07PM #1

On Liveline right now - two callers have phoned in about sending their childrens' dogs to Service Dogs Europe Ltd. for residential training as assistance dogs. It cost them 5,000 to 6,000 per dog and the dogs were at the centre for up to 11-12 weeks. Both dogs came home with service dog certificates, but both parents insist neither dog was in any way improved by the experience bar basic obedience and are still pulling on the lead/barking at strangers etc. Both were pets that were sent there for training - not pups/dogs bred for purpose.

Service Dogs Europe say they use the same guidelines as ADI (Assistance Dogs International) but they are not accredited by ADI. Don't think I should mention their location or the owner's name, but suffice to say when it comes to residential training, CAVEAT EMPTOR!

Nody · 17-08-2015 01:22PM

Fools and money, fools and money...

If they had taken 1/10th of that money and spent it on a local, certified and vetted dog behaviourist those problems would most likely been resolved (or have a action plan to resolve them by now). As for getting a certified assistance dog by paying a company in Ireland for it? Please send me a PM and I'll give you a deal of a lifetime on a lovely red bridge...

As always people want results without putting any time in not realizing that they are 90% of the problem in the human - dog relationship...

boomerang · 17-08-2015 01:25PM

The problem the callers had is the long waiting lists for certified assistance dogs and the time the (busy) parents would need invest in fundraising to gain one. Can't blame the charities for that, but it explains the callers' motivation. I think it's a bit harsh to call them fools, they were just sadly naive. More than simply wanting the dog trained, they wanted them certified so that the dog could accompany their children into shops, restaurants etc.

tk123 · 17-08-2015 01:38PM

Ah missed the start of it but they're talking about it again! Will have to catch the podcast. I saw a dog in training having its face yanked off the other week - "trainer" teaching the mum to yank on the the lead which was attached to a head collar every time the dog pulled.

Then saw another dog (possibly the same one now that I think of it) with 'owners' freaking out every time it looked at passing dogs - ie making the dog afraid of other dogs!

boomerang · 17-08-2015 01:53PM

One dog bit the son when it got home after the residential training. Trainer told the parent to hit the dog on the nose so he wouldn't do it again. Even the owner had the good sense to know you don't train a dog by hitting it.

Nody · 17-08-2015 01:56PM

boomerang wrote: »

I think it's a bit harsh to call them fools, they were just sadly naive. More than simply wanting the dog trained, they wanted them certified so that the dog could accompany their children into shops, restaurants etc.

If you pay 6.000 EUR without doing even basic research on how training is done, the certification is done etc. then sorry I'll call that person a fool. Naive would be thinking that all dogs would be suitable or that it would be an easy thing to get or that all certificates are equal.

tk123 · 17-08-2015 01:58PM

Legends!!!

They went back for the dog after 4 hours

i_Steve · 17-08-2015 01:58PM

Guys I've been in touch with adeu over the last couple of months Assistance Dogs Europe which are the governing body and they said they know of them but are in no way affiliated with them and they've had no training from any organisation
The only place in Ireland anyone can get properly trained for training an assistance dog is with Irish Guide Dogs

i_Steve · 17-08-2015 02:00PM

Also Assistance dogs from IGDB cost Ã¢Â‚Â¬2 for public but people don't want to wait for a fully trained dog

tk123 · 17-08-2015 02:01PM

i_Steve wrote: »

The only place in Ireland anyone can get properly trained for training an assistance dog is with Irish Guide Dogs

There's actually a few other places like Dogs for the Disabled, AADI, My Canine Companion etc

i_Steve · 17-08-2015 02:07PM

tk123 wrote:

There's actually a few other places like Dogs for the Disabled, AADI, My Canine Companion etc

To right they are brilliant organisations and the dogs receive proper training

Tranceypoo · 17-08-2015 02:32PM

boomerang wrote: »

On Liveline right now - two callers have phoned in about sending their childrens' dogs to Service Dogs Europe Ltd. for residential training as assistance dogs. It cost them 5,000 to 6,000 per dog and the dogs were at the centre for up to 11-12 weeks. Both dogs came home with service dog certificates, but both parents insist neither dog was in any way improved by the experience bar basic obedience and are still pulling on the lead/barking at strangers etc. Both were pets that were sent there for training - not pups/dogs bred for purpose.

Service Dogs Europe say they use the same guidelines as ADI (Assistance Dogs International) but they are not accredited by ADI. Don't think I should mention their location or the owner's name, but suffice to say when it comes to residential training, CAVEAT EMPTOR!

I just came on here to post about this, was out walking the dogs (funnily enough) and was listening on my phone, my goodness those people paying all that money! And him telling the woman 'give him a tip on the nose'......oi vey!!

I missed the beginning bit though, I thought that the company had supplied them with the puppies, so these were puppies that the people had got (from where?) and brought them to this company?

muddypaws · 17-08-2015 04:10PM

I was told about it, but missed it, hopefully there is a podcast. I'm just glad that people are finally finding out the truth about this organisation, I was asked to help at a fundraiser for a family to get a dog from them, and it didn't go down well when I explained that I couldn't, and why. It is very, very sad that people are in desperate need of assistance dogs, and in their desperation have believed the hype, sad for the families and for the dogs.

tk123 · 17-08-2015 04:53PM

muddypaws wrote: »

I was told about it, but missed it, hopefully there is a podcast. I'm just glad that people are finally finding out the truth about this organisation, I was asked to help at a fundraiser for a family to get a dog from them, and it didn't go down well when I explained that I couldn't, and why. It is very, very sad that people are in desperate need of assistance dogs, and in their desperation have believed the hype, sad for the families and for the dogs.

Funny I just know I'll be contacted one of these days for a family member doing the same thing and I'll be saying the same as you!

mymo · 17-08-2015 05:07PM

I actually know of a family that bought a pup and sent it there, they were fundraising for it and asked me, I said I couldn't in good conscience donate as I had heard bad things about the place and asked them to do some research. They were very offended, rude and upset about it, had a right go about what would I know etc.
(My close friend looked at assistance dog for her two children and chose to wait on the list rather than go to this place after researching for months)
3 weeks later the dog was sent away, not heard anything since, I do hope for their child's sake it went well.
It's so sad someone can, as I see it, take advantage of often desperate families.

muddypaws · 18-08-2015 01:59PM

I've never been a Joe Duffy fan, today that has changed. Not letting them off the hook. Brilliant, absolutely brilliant.

boomerang · 18-08-2015 02:03PM

It took up the whole programme. He really seemed affected by it, didn't he.

tk123 · 18-08-2015 02:09PM

Did he say it's on again tomorrow? I've never listened to him until now but thought it was very good.

Tranceypoo · 18-08-2015 03:36PM

tk123 wrote: »

Did he say it's on again tomorrow? I've never listened to him until now but thought it was very good.

Yes it sounded like it was going to be on again tomorrow, very interesting listening, that guy from the company sounded like he didn't know his a**e from his elbow!!

muddypaws · 18-08-2015 04:17PM

I felt a bit sorry for the man, I bet he didn't think this is how his job would go.

So sad that so many families feel let down like this, and dangerous as the father with the diabetic son pointed out.

boomerang · 18-08-2015 07:19PM

Can't believe they are taking dogs out of the pound and buying dogs on the internet to train as service dogs. Surely the pup has to come from the right breeder.

Raminahobbin · 18-08-2015 07:56PM

boomerang wrote: »

Can't believe they are taking dogs out of the pound and buying dogs on the internet to train as service dogs. Surely the pup has to come from the right breeder.

And not even properly assessed for suitability- the guy selling his dog on donedeal was just asked if the dog was shy or not, essentially.

So, all the other assistance dogs trained by the reputable places named by tk123 are sourced correctly, taken from puppyhood, and raised by experienced puppy handlers until they're about a year and a half old, THEN placed with the family.

This crowd give you any dog they can get their hands on by the sounds of it, and you're responsible for the socialisation and basic training of the pup- no easy feat, especially for the inexperienced dog owner with a special needs kid on their hands who might not have the time or knowledge to do this. Then the dog is taken away for 8 weeks and "trained" in a crash course of everything they need to know??

I'm surprised they have so many good reviews if this is the way they carry on. But then, they've surely had no small part to play in ensuring this is the case- I can't find any accounts online speaking negatively about them. I think I remember threads here in the past about the residential training at what I assume is the same location, but they're gone now. Surprise surprise.

tk123 · 18-08-2015 08:24PM

boomerang wrote: »

Can't believe they are taking dogs out of the pound and buying dogs on the internet to train as service dogs. Surely the pup has to come from the right breeder.

There's been threads on here with people rehoming labs/retrievers and somebody calling them to take them as service dogs too(!)

Well what goes around comes around as they say .... just a pity so many dogs and people have gotten screwed over in the process!

i_Steve · 19-08-2015 01:51AM

Raminahobbin wrote:

And not even properly assessed for suitability- the guy selling his dog on donedeal was just asked if the dog was shy or not, essentially.

It goes on from that pups are in homes from about 7 weeks old until around 14/15 months old if they're good enough they'll go in for their formal training which lasts approx 28 weeks so the dog is nearly 2 years old when they qualify
Taking a "pup" in at 11/12 weeks old is terrible they've already missed out on critic training/learning/development these guys don't have a clue what they're at by the look of things

tk123 · 19-08-2015 01:17PM

I remembered to tune in today

... Those poor people and dogs though!

Pretzill · 19-08-2015 01:21PM

tk123 wrote: »

I remembered to tune in today ... Those poor people and dogs though!

Yes and how right the caller on now is about the age of dogs and their training ability. People are too trustworthy - this company sounds highly dodgy -

tk123 · 19-08-2015 01:24PM

And shock horror some randomer on now saying how great they are. Just like the olden days of API!:rolleyes::mad:

foggy_lad · 19-08-2015 01:36PM

This crowd are scamming people who should be spending all those thousands of euro/£ on their child or family member who needs the help of an assistance dog!

muddypaws · 19-08-2015 01:37PM

Ah that woman is definitely singing from the company hymn sheet. I wonder what her relationship is, Henry phoned her to get her onto the programme? Hmmmmm.

My sympathy for Michael after yesterday has completely gone after that revelation that he told the man after the programme that he did not promise a refund, but that they would discuss a refund. Is he a complete idiot? It is on record.

Raminahobbin · 19-08-2015 05:40PM

muddypaws wrote: »

My sympathy for Michael after yesterday has completely gone after that revelation that he told the man after the programme that he did not promise a refund, but that they would discuss a refund. Is he a complete idiot? It is on record.

I'm not defending him at all, but I'd say he got read the riot act for that, was told he wouldn't be let on air today, and just clumsily backtracked on what he said because his employer told him to. I forget what his job is up there but assuming it's some sort of managerial position, he knew full well that the best course of action was a full refund in this case and that anyone with a reasonable, customer focused business would provide one. Once he got off the air I'm sure he was reminded quite loudly and sharply that this is not the type of business he works for and was forced to retract.

As the face of the company on air, he deserved all that was thrown at him yesterday, but I still felt a bit sorry for him on a personal level tbh. He's only there 8 months, probably didn't know anything about the company really before he joined. I will be very surprised if he doesn't resign soon after everything he heard yesterday, and I'll completely retract my feeling sorry for him statement if he doesn't.

I think it's pretty clear he himself doesn't pull any strings and isn't involved in the decision making- he was very stumped for answers to some of the allegations yesterday and I don't think he knows anything about the day to day running of that place.

19-08-2015 11:04PM

I think I know this place...and I've sent a couple of dogs here before for boarding and recommended other people do so also. Am I lucky? I've never had any issues and I like a couple of the guys I've met working there...

On Liveline right now - residential dog training

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