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DCM 2015: Mentored Novices Thread
Comments
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Hi Guys haven't been able to keep track recently with all the posts but have been keeping up my training!
I did the Fingal 10k last month and might have put myself under too much pressure on the day thinking about pace and negative splits...
I wasn't feeling great that week and made a rookie error in going out too fast and felt knackered at 5K but it all averaged out and I made a PB of 49.56
(my last and 2nd 10k was 53.32)
Although I didn't really enjoy it half as much as the last 10k's I was delighted getting under 50mins. I think it might have been down to switching from the long game - marathon training/lsr's etc to a race day??
Anywho I'm going on hols in 12 days 17 mins and 4 seconds from now and I've made some slight changes to my HHN1 plan for this.
I recently had some lower back pain last week and got a bit concerned I'd done 'something' and stopped training for a few days did a bit of research and think it might have been not enough stretching (I always do about 15 mins before a run) but more importantly hamstring stretching.
I also need to do some extra core strengthening
Is this a common issue and sorry if this has been asked before but I've missed a months or so of posts
I 'm feeling much stronger and little or no back discomfort this week and I did my lsr on Sunday 15.5miles @ 10.16/m and all was well
I'm going to taper this week and aim to cover 17/18m next week before my hols
I know this is a bit ahead of my plan but I feel strong and able and will have 11 days tapering on hols (with a few longish runs) before getting back into the plan when I return0 -
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Hi sideshowbob, good to hear from yousideshowbob321 wrote: »Hi Guys haven't been able to keep track recently with all the posts but have been keeping up my training!
I did the Fingal 10k last month and might have put myself under too much pressure on the day thinking about pace and negative splits...
I wasn't feeling great that week and made a rookie error in going out too fast and felt knackered at 5K but it all averaged out and I made a PB of 49.56 (my last and 2nd 10k was 53.32)
Although I didn't really enjoy it half as much as the last 10k's I was delighted getting under 50mins. I think it might have been down to switching from the long game - marathon training/lsr's etc to a race day??
Anywho I'm going on hols in 12 days 17 mins and 4 seconds from now and I've made some slight changes to my HHN1 plan for this.
I recently had some lower back pain last week and got a bit concerned I'd done 'something' and stopped training for a few days did a bit of research and think it might have been not enough stretching (I always do about 15 mins before a run) but more importantly hamstring stretching.
I also need to do some extra core strengthening
Is this a common issue and sorry if this has been asked before but I've missed a months or so of posts
I 'm feeling much stronger and little or no back discomfort this week and I did my lsr on Sunday 15.5miles @ 10.16/m and all was well
I'm going to taper this week and aim to cover 17/18m next week before my hols
I know this is a bit ahead of my plan but I feel strong and able and will have 11 days tapering on hols (with a few longish runs) before getting back into the plan when I return Tell me about it, log out of boards for five minutes and 10 pages happen :eek:
Well done on the 10k. I've found some of my best running knowledge has been gained through committing rookie errors/misatakes so onwards
Don't be afraid to supplement online medical research with an actual visit to a chiro, physio or even osteopath (very agreeable discussion with whoopsie re osteopaths at the weekend) especially as it concerns your lower back. Lower back problems can cascade all the way down to your achilles if not managed. A deep tissue/sports massage probably wouldn't go amiss either.
The plan is not set in stone so yes, absolutely rejig according to holiday need. My advice would be 17 miles over 18. Small jumps in mileage are safer for you. When on holiday, run by time as opposed to mileage. Clearlier advised earlier in the week to forget about pace when rinning in heat. Go by similar effort and if 5 miles takes you 55 minutes, just run for 55 minutes at a manageable effort.
Have a google of the 30 Day Challenge, it's a really good all round set to do.
Good luck and enjoy your holidays!0 -
Okay so a little more detail.
This is my first year doing set programs for training for both Triathlon earlier in the year and now for running only. I'm running 5 days a week doing 60km and recovery week at 30km. My conditioning work is non existent at the moment sadly.
I did Dcm 2014 and got a PB of 4hr:30 and that optimistic goal is 3hr:15. I know this seems like a massive drop but I did have a great year of training for tri's so I lost a lot weight and improved cardio. Currently at 77kg and 19% body fat.
I know the 3hr:30 is possible for me but I don't know if I should or if it's wise to push for that little bit more.
I'm still full of newbie questions though cos I've come on so much in the last year and lucked out with the consistent training but I'll admit lacking the experience on the finer details.
I've never actually used imperial measurements please don't hate me :P
*Edit on this planI've definitely bought into the "slow down" mantra. I'm managing to slow down, but I'd like to double check my pacing if that's OK. Apologies, I work in new money, so bear with me on min/km!
I'm doing HHN1 & also targeting a sub 4hr DCM. Per above, that's 9 min/mile or 5:35/km race pace.
So this means I should be running my lsr between 9:45-10:30 (or 6:00-6:30 min/km)? I'm averaging lsr around 5:45/km (previously it was 5:20), so I need to slow down to at least 6/km. That'll be my target pace for my 12 mile / 20k this week-end.
How should I pace my non lsr runs? Based on feedback here, I usually run at conversational pace (anywhere from 5:20-5:40/km). Once in while, I'll run a fast (e.g. close to 5:00/km) 3 mile/5k just to shake off the cobwebs. Are these non lsr paces OK, or should I do something different?
Having said all of the above, as my training progresses, I'm becoming less concerned about my finish time, and more concerned about staying injury free and actually completing DCM on the day!The more we know about your running history the better the recommendations we can make.
Any idea how many km's you've run since the beginning of the year? How many since you just focused on running and when was that?
Any PB's at shorter distances?
What kind of sessions have you been doing?
Where did you get the plan that you're following at the moment?
Edit to add that it is possible for some people to improve by 20 seconds per km between now and the marathon however it depends on a number of factors only some of which will apply to you. Best to do the training, run a shorter race before the marathon and take your best shot on the day.10k pace + 1min/km is about marathon pace i.e. too fast!I have been thinking that adding 1min/km to each distance race pace (ie)running 10k distance at 10k race pace + 1min. So in reality what I should be doing is all my training runs at my LSR pace? I would have thought that the shorter non LSR runs should be a bit faster than the LSR runs?
(I see ZV Yoda is asking a similar question)
CheersStandard easy runs and LSRs should be done at more or less the same pace. I would generally do the LSRs a bit faster in fact (I tend to run a very slow first mile or two which skews the pace of shorter runs downwards).
Depending on your programme you could always do one of your shorter runs a bit faster than LSR pace (that's if you don't have a pace run or a tempo run in your programme). But nly one I would say. You'd get more advantage from doing an extra easy run per week than doing the majority of your easy runs at faster than LSR pace.
I've nothing much to add here, thanks Clearlier and meno. Looking forward to more detail Kander. 3:15 is ambitious but without a race or a training overview to gauge, it's hard to say if it's possible.
[URL="Clearlier pacing post http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=96220748&postcount=1789"]This post[/URL] is getting a lot of airtime but it's worth a re-post 0 -
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REVIEW
The HHN1 plan saw the midweek run increase to 6 miles and the lsr to 12. The boards plan consolidated previous weeks work with a slight step back in the lsr to 14.
Last Saturday saw the 2015 Novice Meet in the Phoenix Park. Denis B, PJD, King Mambo, Toulouse, FeenaM, Wolfyboy555, Singer, Mrs Mc, Whoopsadaisydoodles, and Yours Truly showed up for 12 and 14 nice and easy miles around the PP. Adrian, Yaboya and FBOT01 joined us for chat and cake after. Singer discovered that running slow does.not.hurt
Many of you have been discussing fuelling and are coming to the conclusion that it is just as important to find out what doesn't work.
Inevitably, discussion also turns to food aroundabout now as the mileage ramps up. Marathon training can bring an increased appetite but if you manage pre and post run fuelling with the same dedication you are bringing to lsr fuelling, you don't have to have 'eat the fridge syndrome'
Toulouse had some great advice here, especially re protein. Your body loves protein to repair post-workout tissue. There's also something very satisfying/filling about it too. I craved tins of mackerel last year....
Some simple guidelines:
- eat a mix of nutrient rich protein and carbs within 20 minutes of a lsr
- have a protein based meal within an hour or hour and a half
- drink enough water, don't mistake hunger for thirst
- avoid processed food, keep it simple
There are some general guidelines and common sense here, here, here and here too.
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I had an interesting chat with both nop and PJD re choosing your targets for the 26th. I am coming more and more to the thinking that if you *have to* have a target (you don't!), choose two. They could be 4:10 and 4:20. They could be 4:20 and 4:40.
Don't decide until the day. There will be a range of factors which will decide for you which one you go with. We'll talk about those nearer the time.
Don't have a favourite target (probably the fastest).
Don't have a destiny target (everything will be terrible if I don't achieve this).
Do be flexible.
I really feel if I had been able to do this last year, I would have had a much more satisfying experience on the day.
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Ratracer ran a storming 8k (he got signed permission
) while we were swanning around the PP etc. You can read his race report here. Back to business now
Neilthefunkeone is thinking of deserting to the Dark Side. We'll send him over to The Bitter Lemon for speedo-wearing lessons and warn career move that someone's coming up the ladder
Donglen survived running in extreme heat and brought back a good dose of HTFU, getting out the door at 5:15am. Well done that man! TFGR had a well-advised step back week and is raring to go now, great to hear.
Step back weeks are invaluable. You don't want to get stale, physically or mentally.
Sideshowbob is off on a hot holiday soon so no harm in reposting Clearlier's post on running in hot weather.
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We have had some discussion re race specificity. It comes down to: you are running 26 miles.
Each of these PMP (planned marathon pace) miles will be slower than your 10k, 10 mile and HM pace. Therefore all your miles need to be slower than PMP pace. Going too slow will not harm you one bit. It will actually help you. Going too fast will harm you. A lot :eek: We don't want this for you (some of us have done this already...we do not want the same fate for you. I know we sound like broken records. You really need to trust us on this...)
DCMis on the road. Most (60-80%) of your training will ideally be on road (definitely most of your lsr).
There are no (significant) hills on the DCM route so no point making hill work a significant part of your training.
Likewise speed. No point including a whole lot of speedwork to the detriment of miles.
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Some of you have had niggles. Frash, eyeball kid, and Jake, any news? Glad to hear you're ok whoopsie but keep it monitored, especially with the WR soon :eek:
We said goodbye (but not farewell) to hillsiderunner, she's going to hang around and keep us on track and tidy with certain things
We also said hello to Kander, araic88 and JMSE, again welcome and we look forward to getting to know you better over the next 11 :eek: weeks.
WEEK AHEAD
The HHN1 plan consolidates this week in advance of the following week where there is the option of a 10 mile race.
The boards plan sees the Pace section of the midweek run increase to 6 miles. You will also have a lsr of 17 miles so it is so important to take care of yourselves this week.
For all of you:
Both wednesday's and Saturdays's runs could leave your immune systems compromised/weakened for up to 72 hours so no hanging around in wet running gear, no late nights and don't forget to stretch/give your body tlc etc.
Above all:
KEEP THE EASY DAYS EASY
For those of you planning to race the FD 10 in two weeks, don't be afraid to pop into this thread (started by our very own Pink11) and fire away with any questions. Now is the time to find out everything you need to know about the course profile on the day. You don't want any nasty surprises. Yes, there is a long drag after mile 8.5 or so but if you plan now, you can devise a strategy that leaves something in the tank for that.
FFTW
The usual....;)Breathe
Run tall
Relax
Smile
How's the naked running going?
Have you any tips for slowing down?
And more homework :rolleyes:
T-17 Now is the time
http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showp...postcount=1207
T-16 slowing down to go faster
http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showp...postcount=1565
T-15
http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showp...postcount=1790
T-14 links blank
http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showp...postcount=2037
T-13
http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showp...postcount=2294
T-12 back to the start
http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showp...postcount=2534
Happy running novices and remember, that fridge never harmed anyone 0 -
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Deleted User wrote: »Sh*t I totally missed the entire page where we lost hillsiderunner
It's really hard to miss out because of injury, it was around this stage I had to drop out of Edinburgh too so I get the disappointment
Best of luck with the recovery dude.
Ah it's all right. Was a bit easier to drop-out because I'd already lost some fitness with ribs, the food poisoning etc :rolleyes: ....
Just want to get back to some kind of running asap so I'm doing exactly what I'm told by the physio.0 -
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Right. I'd be very grateful of some advice please and thank you
My trainer got back to me about my concern with the tightness of my plan. He said that the reason for this, is because I have been so prone to injury that he wants to build my miles slowly and carefully and that once I do my HM mid September, we will move up on distances. This has not in any way helped to alleviated my worries. I feel entirely vulnerable right now.
I haven't responded to him as yet. My next few weekends are looking like this:
15th Aug: 30 minutes easy 5 x 5 minutes PMP with 5 min rec 15 minutes easy (total running time 1:35:00)
22nd Aug: RACE - Warriors Run - 10 mile Road & Mountain Trail
30th Aug: 1hr40min easy. 20 mins @ PMP
6th September: 30 mins easy 6 x 6 mins @ PMP with 6 min rec. 15mins easy. (total running time 1:57:00)
13th September: RACE - Half Marathon
If I jumped into HH Novice 2 this week, my LSRs would be 14*, race, 17, 18, 19, 12, 20, 12, 8, 2, DCM.
I like my midweek runs. They're decent in length, and full of variety. So my thinking is that I could follow the plan I have for those, and do the HH N2 plan for LSRs.
HELP!
Thank you so much
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Deleted User wrote: »Right. I'd be very grateful of some advice please and thank you
My trainer got back to me about my concern with the tightness of my plan. He said that the reason for this, is because I have been so prone to injury that he wants to build my miles slowly and carefully and that once I do my HM mid September, we will move up on distances. This has not in any way helped to alleviated my worries. I feel entirely vulnerable right now.
I haven't responded to him as yet. My next few weekends are looking like this:
15th Aug: 30 minutes easy 5 x 5 minutes PMP with 5 min rec 15 minutes easy (total running time 1:35:00)
22nd Aug: RACE - Warriors Run - 10 mile Road & Mountain Trail
30th Aug: 1hr40min easy. 20 mins @ PMP
6th September: 30 mins easy 6 x 6 mins @ PMP with 6 min rec. 15mins easy. (total running time 1:57:00)
13th September: RACE - Half Marathon
If I jumped into HH Novice 2 this week, my LSRs would be 14*, race, 17, 18, 19, 12, 20, 12, 8, 2, DCM.
I like my midweek runs. They're decent in length, and full of variety. So my thinking is that I could follow the plan I have for those, and do the HH N2 plan for LSRs.
HELP!
Thank you so much
Very hard to advise on one aspect of a plan alone particularly given that your plan has been designed around injury concerns......btw if injuries are an issue why are you even considering WR?? Also if your trainer is a runner then he/she is probably best placed to advise you and if you trust him/her then go with the plan as designed. If you don't trust them then maybe you should be looking for a new one???
Anyway back to the question in hand I think you would need to give the full picture and post details of your midweek runs as well before anyone could really comment.
As a general comment when it comes to the marathon there is no substitute that I am aware of for miles and time on your feet. If you don't have enough of these then you will suffer more than those who have. That's not to say you won't get the job done on the day. However, you also need to factor in if you do too many or too much and your body isn't up to it then you won't get to the start line and you won't get the chance to get job done on the day.0 -
It was me who suggested the potential problem with endurance. I think JMSE has speed, but not the endurance required to see him through 26.2 miles....
JMSE all of the above are in and around the three hour mark for the marathon. They know what they're talking about, been there, worn the t shirt etc.
Have you had a look at the Hadd article yet? It wil explain to you why you are coming at marathon training from the wrong angle. Training for a marathon is a different kettle of fish. Fast running will not a fast marathoner make. Long and slow miles will get you there in better condition than too many too fast.
Ouch....that hurt 0 -
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Deleted User wrote: »Right. I'd be very grateful of some advice please and thank you
My trainer got back to me about my concern with the tightness of my plan. He said that the reason for this, is because I have been so prone to injury that he wants to build my miles slowly and carefully and that once I do my HM mid September, we will move up on distances. This has not in any way helped to alleviated my worries. I feel entirely vulnerable right now.
I haven't responded to him as yet. My next few weekends are looking like this:
15th Aug: 30 minutes easy 5 x 5 minutes PMP with 5 min rec 15 minutes easy (total running time 1:35:00)
22nd Aug: RACE - Warriors Run - 10 mile Road & Mountain Trail
30th Aug: 1hr40min easy. 20 mins @ PMP
6th September: 30 mins easy 6 x 6 mins @ PMP with 6 min rec. 15mins easy. (total running time 1:57:00)
13th September: RACE - Half Marathon
If I jumped into HH Novice 2 this week, my LSRs would be 14*, race, 17, 18, 19, 12, 20, 12, 8, 2, DCM.
I like my midweek runs. They're decent in length, and full of variety. So my thinking is that I could follow the plan I have for those, and do the HH N2 plan for LSRs.
HELP!
Thank you so much
Any eejit can write you a plan that'll get you injured. It sounds like you've got a tailored one designed with you in mind. You've got the gold standard plan. Stick to it and see how it goes.
In the unlikely even that it does all go pear shaped you'll then know that the problem was with the plan but you'll also know what's gone wrong and what about the plan needs to be changed for the future. If you abandon the plan now by mixing and matching with other plans then you lose the progression that any good plan follows and thus your ability to discern exactly what was wrong.
Follow your plan
Stick to your plan
Believe in your plan
You and your plan can do it 0
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