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Leaked IAAf report on doping

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  • #182
    Chivito550
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,697 ✭✭✭Chivito550


    Krusty_Clown wrote: »
    It's referenced at the bottom of this BBC article, in relation to the Sunday Times article (needs subscription). Apparently Mo Farah and Jo Pavey are among the 8 athletes who are planning to reveal their blood test data.

    Yeh just found a link through letsrun. Edited my post above to include it.


  • #183
    The Rape of Lucretia
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,440 ✭✭✭The Rape of Lucretia


    whenever wrote: »
    There was a discussion one night on Newstalk about the benefit of taking drugs early in a career then get caught and serve a short ban and come back stronger eg Gatlin. The question was asked - are banned athletes subject to testing when serving their ban?
    {If they are not then they have free rein to build muscle etc free from monitoring}

    Gatlin is proof that there is no benefit at all to using PEDs.
    He was running 9.7x when he was on them before his 2006 ban. He is lately running the same time, or better, without the drugs. So, in fact, drugs were holding him back before. QED, clean athletes run faster.


  • #184
    The Rape of Lucretia
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,440 ✭✭✭The Rape of Lucretia


    clear thinking wrote: »
    Mo Farah not on suspect list.

    Every athlete is on suspect list though for a reasonable person though. In athletics, it has to be guilty unless proven innocent unfortunately. The greater the success, the greater the suspicion. Verging on assumption.


  • #185
    Chivito550
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,697 ✭✭✭Chivito550


    The Rape of Lucretia wrote: »
    Every athlete is on suspect list though for a reasonable person though. In athletics, it has to be guilty unless proven innocent unfortunately. The greater the success, the greater the suspicion. Verging on assumption.

    Ah yeh, and rugby is completely clean. Wingers with 100kg of pure muscle. Yeh that's natural!!


  • #186
    average_runner
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,881 ✭✭✭✭average_runner


    Chivito550 wrote: »
    Ah yeh, and rugby is completely clean. Wingers with 100kg of pure muscle. Yeh that's natural!!


    Don't think anyone said that. Interesting athletics only spent 2m on drugs testing and cycling 8m.


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  • #187
    ThisRegard
    Closed Accounts Posts: 27,833 ✭✭✭✭ThisRegard


    Chivito550 wrote: »
    Ah yeh, and rugby is completely clean. Wingers with 100kg of pure muscle. Yeh that's natural!!

    Oh look, more deflection from you. The poster never even mentioned rugby.

    You'll have to reach the acceptance stage some time.


  • #188
    Chivito550
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,697 ✭✭✭Chivito550


    ThisRegard wrote: »
    Oh look, more deflection from you. The poster never even mentioned rugby.

    You'll have to reach the acceptance stage some time.

    Most of the posters posts are in the rugby forum. He/she suddenly rocks up onto an athletics forum and basically says everyone is dirty until proven otherwise. Complete troll job and I make no apologies for my comment, and I really couldn't care less what you think.


  • #189
    adrian522
    Moderators, Computer Games Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 16,361 Mod ✭✭✭✭adrian522


    It's all well and good athletes with blood values in the "normal" range releasing data, it doesn't really prove anything other than taking them out of the guessing game on who the high profile athlete is with the suspicious values.

    The point is if you had elevated or "suspicious" blood values would you release that? Even if you were clean? I suspect most athletes would not.

    And even if the chances of this occuring naturally is 1 in 100 or 1 in 1000 or whatever, that still is not evidence or proof of wrongdoing.

    Unfortunately the ST is jumping to conclusions that you can't really make based on what they've released the last 2 weeks.


  • #190
    average_runner
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,881 ✭✭✭✭average_runner


    Chivito550 wrote: »
    Most of the posters posts are in the rugby forum. He/she suddenly rocks up onto an athletics forum and basically says everyone is dirty until proven otherwise. Complete troll job and I make no apologies for my comment, and I really couldn't care less what you think.

    Who has said that?


  • #191
    menoscemo
    Closed Accounts Posts: 13,915 ✭✭✭✭menoscemo


    adrian522 wrote: »
    It's all well and good athletes with blood values in the "normal" range releasing data, it doesn't really prove anything other than taking them out of the guessing game on who the high profile athlete is with the suspicious values.

    It's really not a guessing game though. It is very very clear who the said athlete is to anyone who wants to know


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  • #192
    adrian522
    Moderators, Computer Games Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 16,361 Mod ✭✭✭✭adrian522


    menoscemo wrote: »
    It's really not a guessing game though. It is very very clear who the said athlete is to anyone who wants to know

    Well I guess from an athletes point of view it helps to remove them from suspicion. Thoug it still doesn't prove anything I don't think.


  • #193
    ThisRegard
    Closed Accounts Posts: 27,833 ✭✭✭✭ThisRegard


    Chivito550 wrote: »
    Most of the posters posts are in the rugby forum. He/she suddenly rocks up onto an athletics forum and basically says everyone is dirty until proven otherwise. Complete troll job and I make no apologies for my comment, and I really couldn't care less what you think.

    Doesn't matter who posts, you're touchy about athletics and doping and usual response is whataboutery.


  • #194
    conavitzky
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 305 ✭✭conavitzky


    Just after watching the documentary which was on utv recently on the athlete in question which I recorded. The person is so anti doping. They cant be telling a massive porkie, can they?? Would it not be better for her to come out and explain the reasons behind the irregularities in the test results? Is there really anyone clean at the top level? I dont know.


  • #195
    Chivito550
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,697 ✭✭✭Chivito550


    ThisRegard wrote: »
    Doesn't matter who posts, you're touchy about athletics and doping and usual response is whataboutery.

    An athletics fan who stands up for his sport when it is being slated by those who don't have a notion about it. Shocking that!


  • #196
    rovers_runner
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,720 ✭✭✭rovers_runner


    It's all coming together nicely now.
    Good to see a number of UK athletes prepared to go on a solo run (albeit they will end up being the majority in the end).
    They have their own reasons now but it's funny how these things end up benefiting the sport as a whole.


    Lord Coe shot his bolt way to quickly on this one but no doubt he has a lot invested in the prime suspect and that person seemed destined for many boards and committees etc.

    Hilarious parallels to the FIFA scandal with the crookedness and sheer neck of those at the top trying to protect their positions.


  • #197
    The Rape of Lucretia
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,440 ✭✭✭The Rape of Lucretia


    Chivito550 wrote: »
    An athletics fan who stands up for his sport when it is being slated by those who don't have a notion about it. Shocking that!

    What does 'stands up for his sport' mean :

    That it is a predominantly clean sport that has a minor problem that gets a focus that is out of proportion to the extent of the problem ?

    It doesnt really matter what the extent of the problem is, those who criticise it must be rebutted and the topic quenched ?

    That it is a sport with a problem, but is trying its best to deal with it, and so is OK. And people shouldnt criticise it ?

    Or other ?


  • #198
    ThisRegard
    Closed Accounts Posts: 27,833 ✭✭✭✭ThisRegard


    Chivito550 wrote: »
    An athletics fan who stands up for his sport when it is being slated by those who don't have a notion about it. Shocking that!

    Try defending it by coming to terms with its problems rather than continually deflecting to other sports.


  • #199
    Chivito550
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,697 ✭✭✭Chivito550


    The Rape of Lucretia wrote: »
    What does 'stands up for his sport' mean :

    That it is a predominantly clean sport that has a minor problem that gets a focus that is out of proportion to the extent of the problem ?

    It doesnt really matter what the extent of the problem is, those who criticise it must be rebutted and the topic quenched ?

    That it is a sport with a problem, but is trying its best to deal with it, and so is OK. And people shouldnt criticise it ?

    Or other ?

    No offence, but I can't comprehend what you are trying to say, your post is so poorly written.


  • #200
    ultraman1
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,742 ✭✭✭ultraman1


    The Rape of Lucretia wrote: »
    Every athlete is on suspect list though for a reasonable person though. In "ATHLETICS"it has to be guilty unless proven innocent unfortunately. The greater the success, the greater the suspicion. Verging on assumption.
    Not one for defending track joggers/athletes,..but i think u could delete athletics and put in any type of sport regarding drug use..


  • #201
    Chivito550
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,697 ✭✭✭Chivito550


    ThisRegard wrote: »
    Try defending it by coming to terms with its problems rather than continually deflecting to other sports.

    When athletics people (real athletics people, not fun runners who don't know who Mark English is) give the criticism, I have no issue with that, and would agree with much of the comments that are made. However when the comments come from those who know nothing about athletics, and whose sport is rugby, soccer, tennis or US sports, I can't respect such uneducated comments, when they fail to see the dirt on their own doorsteps. How you find this so hard to comprehend is beyond me.


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  • #202
    ThisRegard
    Closed Accounts Posts: 27,833 ✭✭✭✭ThisRegard


    I don't find it hard to comprehend, I've said already that I believe all sports are tainted. But when someone complains about say cycling or athletics with regards to drug use I say yeah I know, it's awful. I don't say well sure look at your sport, let's talk about that.


  • #203
    Chivito550
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,697 ✭✭✭Chivito550


    ThisRegard wrote: »
    I don't find it hard to comprehend, I've said already that I believe all sports are tainted. But when someone complains about say cycling or athletics with regards to drug use I say yeah I know, it's awful. I don't say well sure look at your sport, let's talk about that.

    Good for you.


  • #204
    The Rape of Lucretia
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,440 ✭✭✭The Rape of Lucretia


    ultraman1 wrote: »
    Not one for defending track joggers/athletes,..but i think u could delete athletics and put in any type of sport regarding drug use..

    Not sure that you could.
    Other sports have their problems too, and probably also much that has not reached general public knowledge. But athletics, topped only probably by cycling, certainly have the highest proportion of top level world competitors, or world or olympic medal winners, who are proven drug cheats. Its the proportion of known top level cheats that that tips the balance of probability to one those who have won medals at those events are more likely than not, PED cheats.


  • #205
    The Rape of Lucretia
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,440 ✭✭✭The Rape of Lucretia


    Chivito550 wrote: »
    When athletics people (real athletics people, not fun runners who don't know who Mark English is) give the criticism, I have no issue with that, and would agree with much of the comments that are made. However when the comments come from those who know nothing about athletics, and whose sport is rugby, soccer, tennis or US sports, I can't respect such uneducated comments, when they fail to see the dirt on their own doorsteps. How you find this so hard to comprehend is beyond me.

    Do you mean that you dont dispute that PED abuse is likely pretty commonplace in athletics, but that since other sports probably have similar levels of abuse, then all sports are in the same boat, and so 'picking' on athletics is unfair or hypocritical ?


  • #206
    walshb
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 58,489 ✭✭✭✭walshb


    Commonplace is an over-exaggeration. For every dirty elite track and field star I'd say there are 10 elites clean, maybe more.

    Back to the thread. Has anything actually come of this ridiculous OTT and sensationalized report?


  • #207
    average_runner
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,881 ✭✭✭✭average_runner


    walshb wrote: »
    Commonplace is an over-exaggeration. For every dirty elite track and field star I'd say there are 10 elites clean, maybe more.

    Back to the thread. Has anything actually come of this ridiculous OTT and sensationalized report?

    If the article gets thru to one up and coming athlete, it be a success.

    I say there is more to come from other areas of the sport


  • #208
    john.han
    Closed Accounts Posts: 258 ✭✭john.han


    walshb wrote: »
    Commonplace is an over-exaggeration. For every dirty elite track and field star I'd say there are 10 elites clean, maybe more.

    Back to the thread. Has anything actually come of this ridiculous OTT and sensationalized report?

    But the reality is that even if it is one in ten, that is huge. Look at men's 100m sprinting, look at every man that has ever run 9.79 or quicker. Only two have never had a doping ban as far as I'm aware. A sport that doesn't look at that and hang it's head in shame needs a serious wake-up call.


  • #209
    average_runner
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,881 ✭✭✭✭average_runner


    Chivito550 wrote: »
    Ah yeh, and rugby is completely clean. Wingers with 100kg of pure muscle. Yeh that's natural!!

    Could easily say that about some 110m hurdlers that are pure muscle but weight is 93kg and super fast.


  • #210
    walshb
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 58,489 ✭✭✭✭walshb


    john.han wrote: »
    But the reality is that even if it is one in ten, that is huge. Look at men's 100m sprinting, look at every man that has ever run 9.79 or quicker. Only two have never had a doping ban as far as I'm aware. A sport that doesn't look at that and hang it's head in shame needs a serious wake-up call.

    1/10 is not huge. It's the opposite.


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  • #211
    john.han
    Closed Accounts Posts: 258 ✭✭john.han


    walshb wrote: »
    1/10 is not huge. It's the opposite.

    Seriously, first of all it's just your guess, but more importantly if a sport consists of 10 per cent cheats, then the sport is rancid. And what about the example I gave, 8/10 of the fastest men of all time are cheats. And most of those cheats in that sphere are still competing.


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