*Everything HPAT and Medicine 2015*

Gallagher1 wrote: »

Yeah, which probably won't happen. I honestly wouldn't be surprised if the points stayed the exact same for each Medicine course in the first round this year.

Cool, thank you! That's a great relief to have this knowledge (regarding points) as it's eased some misconceptions I've had.

From what you've described I have to agree with points more than likely staying the same as they were last year as the same number of HPAT applicants applied this year (essentially) so really it's only going to be against those 2500.

mlfaw wrote: »

True, combined with the fact that points tend to stay the same and that not everyone who gets more than 550 1) wants Medicine 2) will get a good enough HPAT it's a strong indicator that points won't change drastically.

I do think you guys are right! However do yee think a significant number of students took medicine off their cao last year before the Cao deadline as they didn't think they'd get it but would've gotten it if they had left it on, as HPAT scores were lower last year. As I said, this year people are more optimistic and 2014 to compare to. So less students will take it off their cao this year, causing an increase for demand for medicine this year? I'm probably wrong here....

mlfaw wrote: »

I would have said yes a few posts ago, however we need to consider that not all of those 106 will be getting a combination of a good HPAT score and a good LC score and that only 2500 applied for the HPAT so the number really hasn't changed as if you didn't apply for both the CAO and the HPAT you're not eligible. Hope this helps.

Do you think the numbers that took medicine off their cao last year was a significant number? I know HPAT applicants were fairly equal in 2014 and 2015 but perhaps articles are saying demand is up for medicine this year as in 2014 more people took medicine off their cao before the deadline? Whereas this year there perhaps wouldn't have been many who took medicine off their cao before the cao deadline? So demand would be up from last year even though numbers sitting the HPAT were quite the same in 2014 and 2015.

mlfaw wrote: »

Perhaps, we don't know exactly however. It's unlikely that a lot took their application off who did the HPAT. This year there was a "106 increase", take 6 off for the 6 that the CAO said increased (which we are sure of) so that leaves 100 extra who may have taken it off and did the HPAT. We know 2560 did the HPAT last year and ~2500 did it this year so take 50 off that 100 which leaves ~50/2500 that potentially took Medicine off their CAO application and who did the HPAT - that's only 2%. Really, this number is neglible as just because there's an "increase" this year doesn't mean these people will get more than 720 and of the ones who took it off last year, it's unlikely they ALL would have gotten Medicine if they left it on, it's more likely 10-20 could have gotten it, which is less than one percent. So to answer your qestion, no I don't think it is significant unless 2% is considered significant.

Where did you find those HPAT applicant figures from 2014 and 2015?

mlfaw wrote: »

It's well noted the CAO is failing or at the very least heavily flawed; this is emphasised by the ridiculously high points for certain courses such as Engineering and General Science in Universities such as Trinity whereas the same courses with the same qualifications can be done in others such as Maynooth and DIT for 100-150 points less. Considering this alongside other courses whose points are high due to limited places such as Medicinal Chemistry it begs the question why are the entry points so high and for what purpose.

Supply and demand. This is the same across the world. Sure it's manipulated (look at courses like Nanoscience), but that's a governance issue, not a CAO issue. Nothing stopping the government getting heavy handed with the universities.

mlfaw wrote: »

When you get the degree from either of these Universities you get the same qualification, the only difference is that you get the name "Trinity College Dublin" for the TCD course written on your degree at the end. There is also a trend of many failing or dropping out of courses throughout the years at rates which are quite high as a result of people scrambling to choose a course then disliking it once they are in it - something the CAO encourages as a result of the point system. There should be a pre-year implemented to qualify whether someone should enter a course or not as points in the Leaving Cert simply cannot determined someone's aptitude towards a University discipline as the LC is a rote-learning exam.

First year is that pre year. People are free to move to another course the year after if they want to cough up the funds. What you're proposing would add another 10% to third level funding costs - where does that money come from? Civil servants are entitled to pay restoration per their deal, the population is aging thus more spending on pensions and the HSE is occurring etc. What we have is a compromise, a logical one.

Gabrielazap wrote: »

Where did you find those HPAT applicant figures from 2014 and 2015?

From users here, you could ring ACER though. Sorry if it isn't extremely clear, I'm quite tired after work, basically even with the difference in numbers between this year and last (there really isn't any) the chances of all of "increased" applicants getting a place in Medicine are slim.

AtomicKoala wrote: »

Supply and demand. This is the same across the world. Sure it's manipulated (look at courses like Nanoscience), but that's a governance issue, not a CAO issue. Nothing stopping the government getting heavy handed with the universities.


First year is that pre year. People are free to move to another course the year after if they want to cough up the funds. What you're proposing would add another 10% to third level funding costs - where does that money come from? Civil servants are entitled to pay restoration per their deal, the population is aging thus more spending on pensions and the HSE is occurring etc. What we have is a compromise, a logical one.

Just because it's supply and demand doesn't mean it's fair or organized correctly. I'm not sure how absolute this is across the World. The CAO is part of the domain of Goverment ergo by default they are the problem. Many people are being getting a raw deal from the system of the CAO from poor management.

First year isn't a pre-year as pre-years are supposed to access whether someone is capable of a course not through them in the deep end and hope they swim, so to speak. I never suggested who should pay for such an option (personally I think Politicians and "entertainers" at RTÉ have more than enough in their yearly salary to cover this for a lifetime) and I don't know where the figure of 10% came from but I'm not getting into a libertarian vs. capitalism discussion here as we are discussing the HPAT and such a discussion would derail the thread. However, it is obvious that many people who are in University should not be there and that there is poor managament in dealing with the needs of these people as a result of the pressure/ lack of clarity caused by the CAO system, emphasised by what we hear year after year with "dropout rates on the rise".

emma35 wrote: »

I hope mine isn't true then hahaha

Perhaps the 2650 figure includes mature students and the 2500 figure is the one minus the mature students?

hey everyone,

just wondering what would you think my chances are with 723?

i am hoping against hope that the points don't rise

anyone else in the same situation?

vladd25 wrote: »

I have have 722 and really hope that the points would stay the same so that I could go to Galway.

Hey guys I'm on 724, same boat. Feeling pretty good about our chances though! Last year, 720 final offers Galway, 722 cork and 724 RCSI so that gives us three pretty good options, it's a range anyway so you're not just hoping to get into one college! obviously I hope that points don't increase but I can't see it, possibly 1 or 2 but unlikely I feel. Same bell curve leaving cert so points there won't be drastically different and we have seen that the HPAT results are nearly the exact same! I expect points to stay nearly the exact same as last year- that's what I keep telling myself anyway

Murphy3 wrote: »

Hey guys I'm on 724, same boat. Feeling pretty good about our chances though! Last year, 720 final offers Galway, 722 cork and 724 RCSI so that gives us three pretty good options, it's a range anyway so you're not just hoping to get into one college! obviously I hope that points don't increase but I can't see it, possibly 1 or 2 but unlikely I feel. Same bell curve leaving cert so points there won't be drastically different and we have seen that the HPAT results are nearly the exact same! I expect points to stay nearly the exact same as last year- that's what I keep telling myself anyway

I really hope so too!! I am repeating this year so I think this will be my last go at undergrad medicine if I don't get in. I am thinking the points will stay the same too. The points going up slightly for GEM makes me slightly nervous though that undergrad medicine may also rise this year:/ hopefully i'm wrong about this though!!

iwillarise wrote: »

Would GEM points have any effect on undergrad though?

It wouldn't have any effect on undergrad but I think there was a slight increase in applicants this year for GEM which may have also occurred for undergrad medicine. I'm not sure how much of an increase in GEM applicants there was however...GEM may have seen a much larger rise in applicants this year than undergrad I don't know. I still don't think undergrad should rise by much this year.Fingers crossed by no more than 1-2 points. I'm just saying if there was a similar percentage increase in applicants in both GEM and undergrad then we may see a similar points rise for undergrad. For example in 2014 to get into UCC GEM a 55* in GAMSAT was needed but in 2015 56* is needed, for UL in 2014 53* was needed but in 2015 54* is needed, for UCD in 2014 57* was needed but in 2015 58* is needed ,and in RCSI in 2014 56* was needed but in 2015 58* is needed. It's just an observation and hopefully the points will remain the same this year for undergrad!