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DCM 2015: Mentored Novices Thread
Comments
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I can't find a half map on the site, but if it's the second half of the marathon route like Killarney, you might need hiking gear
http://www.dinglemarathon.ie/course.html
It's the first half luckily, it's done the reverse to Killarney in the you start in the town and run out the peninsula and the buses bring you back from the halfway point from Dunquin. Supposed to be very scenic as well, you get a very nice long sleeve finishers top as well. Seen a few about the place in my club.
You can see pictures of last year's one here -> http://corkrunning.blogspot.ie/2014/08/dry-fit-top-for-dingle-marathonsat-6th.html
As far as I know it's the same type again this year.0 -
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As I'm not doing the Frank Duffy 10mile I was thinking I could get back the LSR that week, that week is classed as a step back with the mileage back from 35 to 26 miles but I was thinking possibly not to step back as far and adjust the plan taking that race out of it and have a more standard week similar to what we have now and get the LSR back that way....
I am certain that I could not PB on the race at the weekend but I would like to give it a fast enough run without pushing too hard.
I was thinking of a very slow warm up of 2-3miles and then normal(ish) 10K pace with another 2-3 miles slow cool down and being extra good on stretching.
Really sorry diego, I mis-read your post, I got the PB attempt for 10k and HM confused
Yeah that would work. The training kinda goes like a crescendo so instead of lsr plan (top line) you have your tweak (bottom line)
-15|-14|-13|-12|-11|-10|-9|-8
13|15|16|14|17|R FD 10|19|20
13|15|R 10k+|14|17|15/16?|19|20
Just bear in mind that it's easier to do miles before the race than after. It depends on effort but you might not feel like doing three miles after a hard 10k
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Apologies in advance for the humblebrag.
I weighed myself in the first time in a while today, and I've lost around 4.5 kg since April/May, which was a little surprising. I have noticed my tummy not being quite as flabby as it was.
Now, I'm not a doctor, but I think there's a chance that the weight loss correlates with marathon training
I'm now around 79kg / 12st 6lbs. I'm 6'2, so nowhere near underweight... yet. I'll obviously be keeping more of an eye on this. Is there an "ideal" BMI to aim for? How much weight do folks generally lose while marathon training?0 -
You'll be taking this easy, right?!
err..... well ..... I was going to race it but its all relative because I'm not very fast, so 2 mile slow jog down to the start, 6 mile race and very slow 2 mile up hill to home.Ok frash, but as a novice, racing two half marathons in your marathon training plan can be counter-productive. Listen to your body and be kind to it.
I did Cahir HM 3 weeks ago, slowest HM ever so I want to do Boston HM (Clonmel) at a relatively good pace, at around 11.45 which is close to MP, in about 3 weeks.0 -
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It wasnt me123 wrote: »err..... well ..... I was going to race it but its all relative because I'm not very fast, so 2 mile slow jog down to the start, 6 mile race and very slow 2 mile up hill to home.
I did Cahir HM 3 weeks ago, slowest HM ever so I want to do Boston HM (Clonmel) at a relatively good pace, at around 11.45 which is close to MP, in about 3 weeks.
Hi IWM123, I'm bombarding you with a few questions here, apologies, I just want to clarify a few things
Firstly, you're following a club plan? How does this weekend's race fit into the week's training - sorry, maybe you haven't filled in last week's on the tracker sheet - plus last week and the next?
Pace is still relevant as it is you that will be putting in the relative effort....and recovery :eek: What you don't want to do is sabotage training in the week after the race as you recover.
Remind me again about Cahir, was it slow because you intended it to be slow... or? And what do you hope to achieve from the Clonmel half and how does it fit in with the club plan?
Have you any more races planned? :eek:
TIA 0 -
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eyeball kid wrote: »At the moment I'm not planning to do any races before the marathon. Is this something I shouldn't do or is it just personal preference?
I feel I am pretty susceptible to injuries especially when I run hard so I've been kind of avoiding signing up to anything.
Hi EK How's the calf behaving?
You're on a mix (Boards/HH) of plans aren't you? Really, marathon training - especially for a novice - places the focus on the actual training, i.e., getting the miles in. A lot of plans will include a HM or tune up race a certain amount of weeks out but if you're happy to just get the miles in and build consistently, go for it.
A race won't necessarily injure you but running too many or racing too hard for your ability might. But...on a week to week basis, so will not warming up, not cooling down, not stretching, ramping up the mileage too quickly...you get the picture
Marathon training is hard and if you have any weakness, the training will more than likely expose it if you haven't been taking preventative measures.0 -
It wasnt me123 wrote: »I'm running the DLR Bay 10k in Dun Laoghaire on Monday - I have family in Dun Laoghaire so looking forward to this one - is anyone else doing it? I plan on running down to the start and running back to the house for the extra miles - after I've had a Teddy's Icecream
My better half is doing it, and I'll be the guy minding his two kids in the playground next to the finish line, wishing he was running himself!0 -
Hi EK How's the calf behaving?
You're on a mix (Boards/HH) of plans aren't you? Really, marathon training - especially for a novice - places the focus on the actual training, i.e., getting the miles in. A lot of plans will include a HM or tune up race a certain amount of weeks out but if you're happy to just get the miles in and build consistently, go for it.
A race won't necessarily injure you but running too many or racing too hard for your ability might. But...on a week to week basis, so will not warming up, not cooling down, not stretching, ramping up the mileage too quickly...you get the picture
Marathon training is hard and if you have any weakness, the training will more than likely expose it if you haven't been taking preventative measures.
Calf is not too bad. It felt fine after the lsr on Saturday. Could feel it a tiny bit yesterday on my easy run so slowed the pace a bit and it felt ok.
I think I'll avoid the races in the run up to the DCM. Thanks.0 -
Apologies in advance for the humblebrag.
I weighed myself in the first time in a while today, and I've lost around 4.5 kg since April/May, which was a little surprising. I have noticed my tummy not being quite as flabby as it was.
Now, I'm not a doctor, but I think there's a chance that the weight loss correlates with marathon training
I'm now around 79kg / 12st 6lbs. I'm 6'2, so nowhere near underweight... yet. I'll obviously be keeping more of an eye on this. Is there an "ideal" BMI to aim for? How much weight do folks generally lose while marathon training?
No Ideal BMI as every one a a little different though generally lower % body fat down to a point has massive benefits.
One link that suggests anything till 18.5 is good for you: http://www.runnersworld.com/weight-loss/whats-your-ideal-weight-find-out
This site has a little more detail on what might be ideal for your age etc: http://running.competitor.com/2014/01/nutrition/racing-weight-how-much-should-you-weigh_146650 -
No Ideal BMI as every one a a little different though generally lower % body fat down to a point has massive benefits.
One link that suggests anything till 18.5 is good for you: http://www.runnersworld.com/weight-loss/whats-your-ideal-weight-find-out
This site has a little more detail on what might be ideal for your age etc: http://running.competitor.com/2014/01/nutrition/racing-weight-how-much-should-you-weigh_14665
I've read the Matt Fitzgerald one before, but it's dependant on having your body fat measured, isn't it? Can you work it out roughly yourself any way, or do you have to go an be callipered (which I am too shy to get done.) 0 -
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I've read the Matt Fitzgerald one before, but it's dependant on having your body fat measured, isn't it? Can you work it out roughly yourself any way, or do you have to go an be callipered (which I am too shy to get done.)
I use a body measurement scales I got in argos to give me my percentages. It's not as accurate as what the pinch test might give but I step on it every day in the same conditions and it given be a good average I can base it off.
Just redid my numbers and I can easily lose 5 kg more. I better put down these biscuits then
4 seconds faster per km per kg is free speed though 0 -
Just had a read of that Dubgal, thanks.
I'm a bit confused though (story of my life). NO matter how much I try, I keep doing all my easy runs at a 5.30/5.40 pace which is my PMP. It feels nice and easy and if I slow it down more I feel like my form goes all wrong. I would be tired by the end of the longer runs so it's not as if I'm some amazing runner that can just handle that pace and I do feel that I could spend more time on my feet if I was covering less distance but it's just not quite clicking - form wise.
Would it be the worst thing if I just kept running at this pace and hope I can still increase the time spent on feet as I get stronger. I'm planning to join you all on the lsr in the phoenix Park so it will be great to have a group to pace me.
Also, and I hope I don't get in trouble here now but I am planning lot's of races so I don't get bored but not racing most of them. The plan was as follows:
R&R Half - run at PMP
!0 mile Frank Duffy = race
Dingle Half - really easy pace as doing with family that have done deck all training
Great Pink Run - Do 10k before it and then run at PMP and 3k home then
Dublin HM - race
Rathfarnham 5k - race (really really want to race this)
There's also a cross country club race in there 2 days before Dingle but I guess I shouldn't do that :-(
Is that completely unrealistic or will I get away with it because I'm taking it easy on most of them?
Hi FeenaM, I'm on my way out the door with the kids for the day so I'm going to throw this over to the team. I think you have the potential to be a really good runner and I feel that all this racing during marathon training IMO is not a good idea. I'd be worried that you end up tired/stale or injured or overtrained...or any combination.
I only see you plan to 'take it easy' on one of the above?!
Cross country plus marathon training is a sure-fire recipe for injury. Definitely one or the other there
Leave the 5k til after the marathon, seriously.
PMM R nR ...then racing the FD 10 mile two weeks later...asking for trouble.
Great Pink Run with 10k at PMP....no need
Dingle half....hmmmm, maybe. If you jog it.
Sorry to be blunt but I'd like to see you toe the line on the 26th having reached your potential for this year. I don't think you will with all that racing.
Trust me, marathon training is going to give you such an endurance base that everything - everything - you race in after November will be an unqualified success, but not if you over-race in your prep.
Hope that helps until someone from the team jumps in 0 -
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Hi FeenaM, I'm on my way out the door with the kids for the day so I'm going to throw this over to the team. I think you have the potential to be a really good runner and I feel that all this racing during marathon training IMO is not a good idea. I'd be worried that you end up tired/stale or injured or overtrained...or any combination.
I only see you plan to 'take it easy' on one of the above?!
Cross country plus marathon training is a sure-fire recipe for injury. Definitely one or the other there
Leave the 5k til after the marathon, seriously.
PMM R nR ...then racing the FD 10 mile two weeks later...asking for trouble.
Great Pink Run with 10k at PMP....no need
Dingle half....hmmmm, maybe. If you jog it.
Sorry to be blunt but I'd like to see you toe the line on the 26th having reached your potential for this year. I don't think you will with all that racing.
Trust me, marathon training is going to give you such an endurance base that everything - everything - you race in after November will be an unqualified success, but not if you over-race in your prep.
Hope that helps until someone from the team jumps in
+1 for everything Dubgal says there. You have 14 weeks til marathon race day, which means 11-12 weeks of training. Within that 11-12 weeks you're planning on also doing 7 races. I know you're saying that you'll do them easy, but (i) that doesn't always happen with race day adrenalin and (ii) each race will have a disruptive effect on your training. If this was me I would do no more than 2 races between now and race day.....0 -
Just had a read of that Dubgal, thanks.
I'm a bit confused though (story of my life). NO matter how much I try, I keep doing all my easy runs at a 5.30/5.40 pace which is my PMP. It feels nice and easy and if I slow it down more I feel like my form goes all wrong. I would be tired by the end of the longer runs so it's not as if I'm some amazing runner that can just handle that pace and I do feel that I could spend more time on my feet if I was covering less distance but it's just not quite clicking - form wise.
Would it be the worst thing if I just kept running at this pace and hope I can still increase the time spent on feet as I get stronger. I'm planning to join you all on the lsr in the phoenix Park so it will be great to have a group to pace me.
Also, and I hope I don't get in trouble here now but I am planning lot's of races so I don't get bored but not racing most of them. The plan was as follows:
R&R Half - run at PMP
!0 mile Frank Duffy = race
Dingle Half - really easy pace as doing with family that have done deck all training
Great Pink Run - Do 10k before it and then run at PMP and 3k home then
Dublin HM - race
Rathfarnham 5k - race (really really want to race this)
There's also a cross country club race in there 2 days before Dingle but I guess I shouldn't do that :-(
Is that completely unrealistic or will I get away with it because I'm taking it easy on most of them?Hi FeenaM, I'm on my way out the door with the kids for the day so I'm going to throw this over to the team. I think you have the potential to be a really good runner and I feel that all this racing during marathon training IMO is not a good idea. I'd be worried that you end up tired/stale or injured or overtrained...or any combination.
I only see you plan to 'take it easy' on one of the above?!
Cross country plus marathon training is a sure-fire recipe for injury. Definitely one or the other there
Leave the 5k til after the marathon, seriously.
PMM R nR ...then racing the FD 10 mile two weeks later...asking for trouble.
Great Pink Run with 10k at PMP....no need
Dingle half....hmmmm, maybe. If you jog it.
Sorry to be blunt but I'd like to see you toe the line on the 26th having reached your potential for this year. I don't think you will with all that racing.
Trust me, marathon training is going to give you such an endurance base that everything - everything - you race in after November will be an unqualified success, but not if you over-race in your prep.
Hope that helps until someone from the team jumps in
Hi FeenaM, as a fellow race-junkie (currently in voluntary rehab aka base building) I completely get where you're coming from but really recommend that you follow Dubgal's advice. I think you will surprise yourself by what you are capable of in the marathon if you spend the next few months consistently training. You won't be able to do that if you're recovering from races (even the PMP ones) and worst case scenario you could run yourself into the ground and/or get injured. If the marathon is the main goal then it makes sense to focus on that and do yourself justice. My 2c for what it's worth. 0 -
thanks for that FBOT01, the vo2max sessions are my least favorite session.
i have just over 1000 miles run for the year so far and im just after finishing a 10 week 10k training cycle so hopefully that will see me through this marathon training.
how did you find the P&D plan?
Sounds like you have a reasonable base build up anyway. I found and still find P&D plans challenging but ultimately rewarding 0 -
Apologies in advance for the humblebrag.
I weighed myself in the first time in a while today, and I've lost around 4.5 kg since April/May, which was a little surprising. I have noticed my tummy not being quite as flabby as it was.
Now, I'm not a doctor, but I think there's a chance that the weight loss correlates with marathon training
I'm now around 79kg / 12st 6lbs. I'm 6'2, so nowhere near underweight... yet. I'll obviously be keeping more of an eye on this. Is there an "ideal" BMI to aim for? How much weight do folks generally lose while marathon training?
There is a very established distant runner around these parts that once put it something like this.......I know when I am in marathon training because people start to tell me I am looking very fit. I know when I am close to race weight when they start to ask me if I am OK and tell me that I look a little thin or sickly
If you are training and eating well weight loss if often a "side effect" of marathon training but it differs greatly between individuals and in particular where they are starting from. I wouldn't give it too much focus but would monitor periodically as you should be doing with every other aspect of your health during your training.....IMHO 0 -
No Ideal BMI as every one a a little different though generally lower % body fat down to a point has massive benefits.
One link that suggests anything till 18.5 is good for you: http://www.runnersworld.com/weight-loss/whats-your-ideal-weight-find-out
This site has a little more detail on what might be ideal for your age etc: http://running.competitor.com/2014/01/nutrition/racing-weight-how-much-should-you-weigh_14665
I have always wondered about this. I want to lose a stone between now and the big day in Oct (am a little bit under 14st now), and based on the article it says that I should be improving my mile pace by up to 28 seconds if I lose the full 14 lbs. (over 12 minutes total during the race).
Adding in for the extra fitness I gain as a result of all the miles I'll be putting in then there is surely another 10 minutes benefit to be gained!!:D
ok, enough with the joking!! I assume the reality is that for someone like me who is looking to lose some weight as part of marathon training, then there should be an improvement in my performance that comes from a blend of losing weight, improved fitness - and is a real virtuous cycle (as I'll never get to the stage where my BMI puts me at risk of being malnourished) :pac:
My BMI is currently 27.1, so I like to think that I am much healthier generally than my wife who does exercise but probably has a BMI in low 20's!!0 -
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I have always wondered about this. I want to lose a stone between now and the big day in Oct (am a little bit under 14st now), and based on the article it says that I should be improving my mile pace by up to 28 seconds if I lose the full 14 lbs. (over 12 minutes total during the race).
Adding in for the extra fitness I gain as a result of all the miles I'll be putting in then there is surely another 10 minutes benefit to be gained!!:D
ok, enough with the joking!! I assume the reality is that for someone like me who is looking to lose some weight as part of marathon training, then there should be an improvement in my performance that comes from a blend of losing weight, improved fitness - and is a real virtuous cycle (as I'll never get to the stage where my BMI puts me at risk of being malnourished) :pac:
My BMI is currently 27.1, so I like to think that I am much healthier generally than my wife who does exercise but probably has a BMI in low 20's!!
Don't rely on marathon training to lose weight. To lose weight you need to focus on your diet. As I've mentioned elsewhere training usually increases your appetite and I'm living proof that it's possible and even easy to put on weight while running 50mpw.
I'm loath to give out too much advice about diet but on piece of advice that did resonate with me from Matt Fitzgerald's book is to improve the quality of the food that you eat. If you eat white bread switch to brown (it's nicer anyway), white pasta - switch to brown. Ditch the breakfast cereals for porridge and/or eggs. Make sure that you have vegetables with at least 2 of your meals. An apple instead of a mars bar.0 -
Don't rely on marathon training to lose weight. To lose weight you need to focus on your diet. As I've mentioned elsewhere training usually increases your appetite and I'm living proof that it's possible and even easy to put on weight while running 50mpw.
I'm loath to give out too much advice about diet but on piece of advice that did resonate with me from Matt Fitzgerald's book is to improve the quality of the food that you eat. If you eat white bread switch to brown (it's nicer anyway), white pasta - switch to brown. Ditch the breakfast cereals for porridge and/or eggs. Make sure that you have vegetables with at least 2 of your meals. An apple instead of a mars bar.
+1 to all of this. You are a machine and better fuel gives better results.
Like it was mentioned earlier I believe nutrition, body fat / bmi is all part of the whole package of being more athletic and active. It's all linked to the other vital parts of running such as sleep, recovery, muscle conditioning and efficiency.
Slacking on something will impact others parts. We are all a little different so just find what works for you 0 -
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