"An Open Letter to White Men in America"

MakeEmLaugh · 27-07-2015 01:54AM

Zillah wrote: »

There's a UK performer (can't remember his name right now) who is black and a millionaire, and he got so sick of being pulled over and questioned by cops that he started filming the encounters on his phone and putting them on Youtube. They see a black face in a Ferrari and they stop him.

I think you're thinking of Chris Rock. He lives in the US, not the UK.

Comedian Chris Rock posts selfies of police stops

Junkyard Tom wrote: »

Did anyone else watch the recent two-part BBC documentary on how massive wealth was 'created' due to the slave trade and subsequent compensation handed out to slave owners when it was outlawed?

You'd want to be rather thick not have a modicum of understanding of how the above did indeed feed into the economies of white Britain and white USA and create a privileged class which very much contributed to 'white' success. At the end of the 2nd programme the narrator listed off all the modern day corporations/institutions that benefited enormously from those times.

Do you know the name of that show?

Junkyard Tom · 27-07-2015 02:10AM

MakeEmLaugh wrote: »

Do you know the name of that show?

Britain's Forgotten Slave Owners.

bbc.co.uk/britains-forgotten-slave-owners

jcd5971 · 27-07-2015 10:24AM

Junkyard Tom wrote: »

Did anyone else watch the recent two-part BBC documentary on how massive wealth was 'created' due to the slave trade and subsequent compensation handed out to slave owners when it was outlawed?

You'd want to be rather thick not have a modicum of understanding of how the above did indeed feed into the economies of white Britain and white USA and create a privileged class which very much contributed to 'white' success. At the end of the 2nd programme the narrator listed off all the modern day corporations/institutions that benefited enormously from those times.

Some white people back in the day owned gold mines as well which contributed to "white success" but you don't see me having white guilt when the girl-friend puts on her jewellery,or I put on my watch and cuff links in the morning, it's nonsense

Junkyard Tom · 27-07-2015 04:40PM

jcd5971 wrote: »

Some white people back in the day owned gold mines as well which contributed to "white success" but you don't see me having white guilt when the girl-friend puts on her jewellery,or I put on my watch and cuff links in the morning, it's nonsense

I have no idea how your girlfriend's jewellery or your cuff-links relate to my post.

smash · 27-07-2015 04:42PM

Doctorate in White Privilege

Jesus, they'll give out degrees for anything these days.

jimgoose · 27-07-2015 04:45PM

It's great being a priest, isn't it Ted!!

Maguined · 27-07-2015 04:49PM

smash wrote: »

Doctorate in White Privilege

Jesus, they'll give out degrees for anything these days.

Especially if you are a white male, you don't even need to do the test as your existence automatically guarantess your qualification.

jimgoose · 27-07-2015 04:51PM

Maguined wrote: »

Especially if you are a white male, you don't even need to do the test as your existence automatically guarantess your qualification.

We're Native Speakers. We don't need to be taught to pull on the Chinos, boat-shoes and pink shirt and go "Fawtha was in Phi Kappa Delta at Haww-vad. I'm considaw-ing buying a boat, yaw??"

smash · 27-07-2015 04:51PM

Maguined wrote: »

Especially if you are a white male, you don't even need to do the test as your existence automatically guarantess your qualification.

Do you automatically get a Masters degree if you went to a private school?

jimgoose · 27-07-2015 04:51PM

smash wrote: »

Do you automatically get a Masters degree if you went to a private school?

If you go to the right one, hyess. You can tell a Yale man, but you can't tell him much. :cool:

wes · 27-07-2015 04:55PM

I disagree, the privilege was earned via the murder and brutalization of other people by there ancestors, and almost every majority groups ancestors have at one point or another done this. Human history is built on the brutalization of other Humans for one reason or another, and some of there descendants feeling bad after the fact, all the while benefiting from the brutality of there ancestors.

kidneyfan · 27-07-2015 04:56PM

wes wrote: »

I disagree, the privilege was earned via the murder and brutalization of other people by there ancestors, and almost every majority groups ancestors have at one point or another done this. Human history is built on the brutalization of other Humans for one reason or another, and some of there descendants feeling bad after the fact, all the while benefiting from the brutality of there ancestors.

The Irish are unique in having clean hands in this regard. I suppose it is one of the reasons that I am proud to be Irish, we are better than other peoples and that means that I am better than other people.

pickarooney · 27-07-2015 04:57PM

kidneyfan wrote: »

The Irish are unique in having clean hands in this regard. I suppose it is one of the reasons that I am proud to be Irish, we are better than other peoples and that means that I am better than other people.

Tell that to the Tuatha De Dannan, MURDERER!

dont bother · 27-07-2015 05:06PM

white men in the usa ARE privileged....

why is everyone here racist and saying that it's untrue?!

Eramen · 27-07-2015 05:18PM

dont bother wrote: »

white men in the usa ARE privileged....

why is everyone here racist and saying that it's untrue?!

Technically yellow Asian men (including women), and Jews, in the USA are even more privileged due to their even higher representation among the wealthy, professions, income, life expectancy, elite universities etc - it begs the question why are you letting them off the hook?

Oh wait, yeah, your 'hip' agenda. White people evil privileged inequality cry me a river blah blah.

The thing is these modern populations earned what they have through personal effort. Others just want it for free. We have the same type of lazy, entitled underclass here in Ireland. Anybody can do it as long as they put in the work. Sing a new song please.

_Kaiser_ · 27-07-2015 05:38PM

There is an increasing element in the Western world that seems to have fook all to do with itself than crusading on the behalf of what they see are oppressed minorities.. regardless of whether those people are ACTUALLY being oppressed, or whether they actually WANT or need this "support"

The irony is that the only people who seem to pay any attention to this are those of the same mindset so it becomes a circlejerk of noise that generally only comes to mainstream attention thanks to the "miracle" of social media and bored "reporters" trying to justify their existence on news websites that increasingly resemble a Facebook/Twitter/<similar> newsfeed update.

The disturbing element to all this of course is that the crusade only allows expressions of unwavering support - any dissent or even questions are ruthlessly stomped on by the advocates of the consensus who will throw every term, accusation or insinuation in their SJW Playbook to discredit and silence opposing views.

The danger is that the rest of us continue to appease these self-appointed moral guardians and allow them to influence policies and decisions in ways that have no bearing on the reality of a given situation, and quite likely will make things worse for ALL concerned.

DeadHand · 27-07-2015 05:52PM

kidneyfan wrote: »

The Irish are unique in having clean hands in this regard. I suppose it is one of the reasons that I am proud to be Irish, we are better than other peoples and that means that I am better than other people.

Except the Irish were eager participants in the building and maintenance of the British empire, active at all levels be it as soldiers, sailors, explorers or administrators.

We were also well represented in America as participants in and beneficarys of America's Manifest Destiny "mission". That's not even to mention some of the antics "we" got up to in Australia.

Now, I'm not for a second arguing we should feel some racial guilt for things that happened before any of us were born- we shouldn't- but this common idea that the Irish are somehow uniquely innocent of genocide and Imperialism is a myth.

Nodin · 27-07-2015 06:44PM

kidneyfan wrote: »

The Irish are unique in having clean hands in this regard. I suppose it is one of the reasons that I am proud to be Irish, we are better than other peoples and that means that I am better than other people.

.....as a state, no. And you seem to forget that many Irish joined the BA to run the Empire, as did many Africans, Indians etc. That's how it works - offer scraps from the masters table, divide and conquer, use the subjugated to subjugate in turn.

osarusan · 27-07-2015 06:50PM

I thought that post was sarcasm myself.

jcd5971 · 27-07-2015 06:58PM

Life's not an equal opportunities employer. It's harsh but not all dogs get to go to heaven.
There are finite resources on this planet and somebody has to get the ****ty job of making the goods we don't want to make, and cleaning up what we don't want to clean.

Is that fair no.. But I'm sure as **** glad it's not me doing it. Do I have white upper middle class benefits, I suppose I do but I won't feel guilty about it.

Dimithy · 27-07-2015 10:10PM

Eramen wrote: »

The thing is these modern populations earned what they have through personal effort. Others just want it for free. We have the same type of lazy, entitled underclass here in Ireland. Anybody can do it as long as they put in the work. Sing a new song please.

Exactly, sure what kind of crazy person would want to look at context, historical, and societal issues when we all know its just lazy people.

MakeEmLaugh · 28-07-2015 01:36AM

wes wrote: »

I disagree, the privilege was earned via the murder and brutalization of other people by there ancestors, and almost every majority groups ancestors have at one point or another done this. Human history is built on the brutalization of other Humans for one reason or another, and some of there descendants feeling bad after the fact, all the while benefiting from the brutality of there ancestors.

kidneyfan wrote: »

The Irish are unique in having clean hands in this regard. I suppose it is one of the reasons that I am proud to be Irish, we are better than other peoples and that means that I am better than other people.

You're ill informed if you think the Irish have had no part in imperialism.

John Pope Hennessy (formerly Ó hAonghusa), from Cork was the eight Governor of Hong Kong.

Luke O'Connor, from Roscommon, was the first soldier in the British Army to receive the Victoria Cross, and ended his career as a Major General.

During the 19th Century, 42% of the British Army were Irish-born, meaning there were more Irish soldiers than English soldiers in it.

speedboatchase · 28-07-2015 08:26AM

speedboatchase wrote: »

Black people can't f**k with time machines...

Whoops, wrong clip. How many times has Louis CK talked about time machines?!

28-07-2015 08:33AM

MakeEmLaugh wrote: »

You're ill informed if you think the Irish have had no part in imperialism.

John Pope Hennessy (formerly Ó hAonghusa), from Cork was the eight Governor of Hong Kong.

Luke O'Connor, from Roscommon, was the first soldier in the British Army to receive the Victoria Cross, and ended his career as a Major General.

During the 19th Century, 42% of the British Army were Irish-born, meaning there were more Irish soldiers than English soldiers in it.

I am none of these people. are you any of these people yourself?

bad enough that we should have historical acts of a perpetually failed state pinned to our collective breast for beating, we're now to be hit with sackcloth and ashes on behalf of every individual ever born here besides

every generation gets the world it was born into. if you feel it could be a fairer one and want to make that happen then log off, put down the manifesto (updated monthly these days) and get out and do something. propagation of absolute garbage such as privilege theory will achieve nothing more than a very slight online martyrdom for you.

orubiru · 28-07-2015 01:05PM

Dear White Men,

You are persons of privilege.

You didn't earn it. More than likely aren't yet prepared to either admit to it or lose it. This letter, written by one of you, is offered to invite you on a journey of insight, honesty, hard truth and just living.

Privilege can be hard to see, mostly because of what doesn't happen to us when we have it.

OK, so basically the set up here is that if the white men disagree that they have privilege then it's just that privilege is hard to see and/or we just aren't prepared to admit to it?

Straight off the bat he is just saying "if you disagree with me you are wrong". As if there are only 2 possible points of view here.

To be honest I don't even understand the definition of "privilege" in this context and how ANY of the things he has listed are "privileges"?

If a privilege is possibly avoiding a bad thing that happens to other people simply because of your race or gender or class then how can any American sit there with a straight face and talk about privilege? Could I not just turn round and say "American Privilege is not having your wife and kids blown to bits by a foreign military force"? "American Privilege is not having to walk 10 miles in the blazing sun to fetch water" I am sure anyone could come up with examples of how people living in "The West" have a ridiculously high quality of life when compared to some of the sh!t that goes on in the rest of the world.

Or does that just get dismissed as "whataboutery"? Because we definitely wouldn't want to get a sense of perspective here right?

His second example is "We aren't being followed when walking through a department store wearing a sweat shirt with a hood." OK, but i could still potentially be followed in a department store. Just because it happens to Group A more than it happens to Group B doesn't mean that Group B has privilege.

If 1% of people living in Dublin 4 are victims of crime and 2% of people living in Dublin 2 are victims of crime can we then say that D4 people have privilege because less of them will be victims? Some people in D4 will still be victims either way. Did those people just lose their privilege?

I fail to see how any of this is much different from the "your either with us or against us" propoganda nonsense that you see from any of the other nutjob types out there.

The word "Privilege" used in this context appears to be a buzzword that is used to control the conversation. It's true, I have never been assaulted or abused or denied anything based on my race or gender. I doesn't mean that I won't be. It doesn't mean that it couldn't possibly happen.

I really think these kind of conversations can only happen online. I don't understand what the end goal is? For all white men to admit that they have privilege?

If a white man does get assaulted or shot by cops or given an unfairly harsh prison sentence or followed in the department store, does it mean that he has lost his privileges?

The Corinthian · 28-07-2015 03:06PM

orubiru wrote: »

His second example is "We aren't being followed when walking through a department store wearing a sweat shirt with a hood." OK, but i could still potentially be followed in a department store. Just because it happens to Group A more than it happens to Group B doesn't mean that Group B has privilege.

One of Chris Rock's most controversial routines addressed this point.

I really think these kind of conversations can only happen online. I don't understand what the end goal is? For all white men to admit that they have privilege?

It think it is to rationalize the idea that the sole reason for some groups being disadvantaged is down to white, Protestant (in America) males (oddly, we can blame while males alive today, but not white females who share the same ancestry).

I do think that there are many minority groups who suffer disadvantage as a result of prejudice and past injustices, but much if not most of the disadvantage is at this stage self inflicted.

But such is the almost fanatical need to paint the whole thing as the fault of the 'white man' or WASP or whatever, that the causes will end up being overlooked and the problem will persist. Of course, there's we're really taking about middle class SJW's who despite being more privileged than most of their 'fellow whites' typically are not very bright.

It's interesting that Barack Obama, would actually be the very hostile to the open letter in the OP. Is that because he's half white or because he recognizes such arguments as being self-serving tripe?

smash · 28-07-2015 03:16PM

The Corinthian wrote: »

It's interesting that Barack Obama, would actually be the very hostile to the open letter in the OP. Is that because he's half white or because he recognizes such arguments as being self-serving tripe?

I'd like to think it's because he recognises that the difference between black people, and 'ghetto hood rats' is the same as white people and ghetto hood rats. Yet, it's always the ghetto hood rats (or under privileged) that are represented in any discussion regarding black people. It would be akin to Travellers being portrayed as the face of all Irish people for the purpose of debate or discussion.

Even Chris rock had a sketch entitled Black People VS. Niggaz.

The Corinthian · 28-07-2015 03:22PM

smash wrote: »

Even Chris rock had a sketch entitled Black People VS. Niggaz.

Err, I know - didn't you read my post?

smash · 28-07-2015 03:26PM

The Corinthian wrote: »

Err, I know - didn't you read my post?

Didn't click the link. thought it was a different video because I assumed the quote under it was from the video because the OPs name was removed.

Aimead · 28-07-2015 03:42PM

Trying to find his doctorate thesis at the moment but my Google-Fu is too weak. Anyone able to dig it up? I’d really like to see what sort of work gets a ‘doctorate in white privilege’.

"An Open Letter to White Men in America"

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